Charizard Tactical Discussion

[CHOMPY]

How exactly do you land the back air spike? Does it have to be close up as in the character has to get hit by the thick part of it's tail?

 

[Zigsta]

It's underneath Charizard's tail closer to his body.

 

[Katakiri]

So I'm still playing around with PT's ledge game. Finding a few cute tricks.

I've been using Charizard's ledge stall with pretty great success recently. I've been using it to fully restore Squirtle & Ivysaur's fatigue which really opened doors for me. I can use a battery of all 3 pokemon in one stock now w/o fatigue becoming an issue.
I'd use Squirtle until the opponent's at kill percent, then I'd kill them with Ivysaur, ledge stall with Charizard for about 20-30 seconds then go back on the offense till Zard gets KO'd.

It's basic PT, but the ledge stall gives Squirtle a little more oomph second stock, which could be all he needs sometimes.

I did notice that Charizard loses his super armor for a split second when he enter the animation of him catching the ledge. So things like Diddy's D-tilt can hit him sometimes.

 

[T-block]

interesting... how are you ledgestalling?

i'm pretty sure no matter what charizard does it's fairly easy to grab the ledge from him, and then you're screwed if you're forced to up-b onto the stage.

 

[Steeler]

yeah. it's not like fair/bair have particularly good startup/cooldown/range and fly isn't very quick either. DAT AIN'T MK UAIR/MARTH FAIR/GW NAIR/PIT UAIR

 

[Phiddlesticks]

you forgot falco

 

[MaTA]

O man, my charizard *****. Just sayin...

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Charizards Up air is good edge stall, and you can always just jump twice and then jump on to the level with Flamethrower or ROcksmash.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I just realized that Down-Smash is fast enough to punish a fully-shielded Mach Tornado from Meta Knight. No more 50/50 guessing games for me. Either he commits to an escape option and I grab him, or he stays nearby and I D-Smash. Good times.

 

[Zigsta]

Good stuff, Reflex.

Now finish that guide of yours!

 

[T-block]

Is this as good as I think it is? It sounds amazing.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Good stuff, Reflex.

Now finish that guide of yours!

Actually, I broke my laptop screen on the way back from Colorado yesterday, where all my guide stuff has been stored.

That being said, I may piece changes together on my older brother's laptop or at my college's computer lab, but, we'll see.

Is this as good as I think it is? It sounds amazing.

The trouble still lies in the fact that if he gets you in the air, you take lots and lots of damage, while he only takes 16% or whatever it is from D-Smash.

Regardless, this means that you don't have to perfectly space Rock Smash as your only option to punish Tornado use. Because of that, it might cause Tornado to be used less and/or make other options more predictable. Flamethrower beats everything but Mach Tornado, so we could conceivably camp decently well with these options against Meta Knight.

 

[T-block]

Right so as long as it doesn't poke your shield, you're guaranteed a d-smash if he lands within range? Is that considering the auto-cancel landing?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Right so as long as it doesn't poke your shield, you're guaranteed a d-smash if he lands within range? Is that considering the auto-cancel landing?

Yes. You can drop your shield and D-Smash before then. It's thirty frames for Meta Knight to finish that way, and the D-Smash has rather nice range.

 

[Katakiri]

So guaranteed kill at 112 (bad DI) or 120 (good DI) if he ends tornado near you. I'm takin' notes, teach'.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Yes. The important thing is to bait Tornado with Flamethrower and to anticipate Tornado with a well-spaced Rock Smash, B-Air, or Up-B when your shield is small.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

OMG



<3 you Ash...I mean Luis.

 

[Zigsta]

Actually, I broke my laptop screen on the way back from Colorado yesterday, where all my guide stuff has been stored.

That being said, I may piece changes together on my older brother's laptop or at my college's computer lab, but, we'll see.

I hate how unlucky you are, man. No one deserves this.

Let's all try out dsmash more, guys!

 

[Katakiri]

I've been slowly working it into my playstyle decently. Guess I'll just invest in it a little more. That 2011 Charizard!

 

[T-block]

I'm so happy there may be a legitimate use for d-smash. What a ****** move

 

[CoonTail]

**** luis I've always used D-smash slightly like this but never saw it as this big an option.....that is 2011 Zard game right there

 

[@TKbreezy]

well...as far as dsmash goes...I still really havent found how to work it into my play either except for bthrow -> b-throw ->missed tech ->dsmash...

but why would I do that when I can just get another grab off of tech chasing...never thought about punishing people landing tho?...wouldnt that be good for air dodgers?

or is that a free powershield?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

well...as far as dsmash goes...I still really havent found how to work it into my play either except for bthrow -> b-throw ->missed tech ->dsmash...

but why would I do that when I can just get another grab off of tech chasing...never thought about punishing people landing tho?...wouldnt that be good for air dodgers?

or is that a free powershield?

It's a good option if you're rather sure that they won't fastfall at the last second, and especially so if they have the ability to weave around you while doing so in order to make you have to guess, like Wario or Squirtle. That's what the added mobility of Mach Tornado does, so that's why it came to mind.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Guys--

Out-of-shield U-Smash.

I see Kismet doing Falco's U-Smash out of shield while shielding things like opponents' jabs. Falco's U-Smash is frame 8, and Charizard's is frame 6.

I didn't know the initial hitbox was so low--

I bet we could use it as a viable alternative to grabbing in some situations and make for N-Air coverage/U-Air juggle stuff quickly at low percents, as well as being an acceptable KO option in that way.

If Meta Knight is harassing you with D-Tilt, you should be able to do this unless he's "perfectly spaced," in which case doing your own D-Tilt should avoid his move and hit him. I bet we could do this to Falco's standing jab and/or between Falco's falling N-Air -> grab. We need to look into the potential of Charizard's close-up game; between this and Up-B, Charizard may be harder to deal with up-close than we had previously thought.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Not to sound like a ****, but I have been saying Zards OoS options ****, back when I actually posted, especially Upsmash.


It is soo pimp, it combos at low percents and KO's at high percents.

Aaahhhhhh ****.

 

[Steeler]

Not to sound like a ****, but I have been saying Zards OoS options ****, back when I actually posted, especially Upsmash.


It is soo pimp, it combos at low percents and KO's at high percents.

Aaahhhhhh ****.

^ ditto this

 

[Zigsta]

I find myself forgetting how large the hitbox in front of Charizard is. I'll start paying attention to this more.

Thanks, Reflex. Always have nothing but love for your input.

 

[DanGR]

Does upsmash combo into anything special like another upsmash or uptilt at low percents? I find myself upsmashing again after rocksmash-> dashing upsmash combos.

Edit: I mean good followups for it.

 

[Ingoro]

Does upsmash combo into anything special like another upsmash or uptilt at low percents? I find myself upsmashing again after rocksmash-> dashing upsmash combos.

Edit: I mean good followups for it.

Well, after you've hitted Rock Smash into Usmash the target ain't really on low percentage anymore. What I ussually do is hunt with an Uair, although an Nair might work.

 

[T-block]

u-smash won't combo into anything at any percent, but charizard does have some nice options when he's below an opponent trying to land, if that's what you mean.

 

[@TKbreezy]

yesterday...I did a falling U-air -> Utilt 2x -> U-air (the last U-air should have hit)

but it was mad sexy to say the least...lol

 

[Kith]

Falling Flamethrower to B-air spike on a Wolf trying to recover...try it...it's hilarious

 

[Ingoro]

Sounds tricky

 

[Kith]

I'll post a vid eventually if I pull it off mid-match. It's the funniest thing ever. It doesn't seem like Wolf has many options if he doesn't see it coming

 

[CHOMPY]

I found a trick to killing Wario at 100%. First you must bait him to come near the edge (platforms can work as well), then you grab Wario and instantly kill Wario with a fresh unstale Rock Smash. Try to not make it obvious that your going for that trick, but it works on all of my opponents that play Wario.

 

[Steeler]

just thinking about the frame data, i'm sure wario can jump and air dodge before the rock smash comes out. i assume you have to jump first to get the meaty part of rock smash, right? even if you don't, there's like a 3 frame window where wario can act

 

[Ingoro]

What about Chari's fsmash?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

What about Chari's fsmash?

Against spotdodge-happy players, you can F-Smash immediately after a grab-release; it'll hit them. Certain jabs or grabs, too, as the leaning back helps you dodge stuff.

 

[T-block]

Reflex, he's talking about air releasing Wario to land a Rock Smash/f-smash. I'm pretty sure neither of those are guaranteed on an air releasing Wario. U-smash, f-air and b-air should be though, although u-smash can be SDI'd.

How do you plan on grabbing Wario off a platform's edge anyways? =P

 

[Zigsta]

RS and fsmash aren't guaranteed.