Charizard Tactical Discussion

[T-block]

^does it matter which one? ._. the only difference is spacing

when does flamethrower go through MT? i haven't seen any consistency with it, but i don't really pay all that much attention >_>

 

[Zigsta]

It's just at the beginning when the Tornado has no priority.

 

[CoonTail]

It's just at the beginning when the Tornado has no priority.

LOL zigsta basically anything goes through tornado at the beginning of tornado. But my general rule of thumb......Rock smash beats tornado......flamethrower beats drill.....rocksmash losses to drill(RS counter beats drill but is hard to space)......flamethrower losses to tornado(Unless its the beginning). So in all scenarios zard's moves can beat their two counters....you jus gotta know how.

 

[Zigsta]

LOL zigsta basically anything goes through tornado at the beginning of tornado. But my general rule of thumb......Rock smash beats tornado......flamethrower beats drill.....rocksmash losses to drill(RS counter beats drill but is hard to space)......flamethrower losses to tornado(Unless its the beginning). So in all scenarios zard's moves can beat their two counters....you jus gotta know how.

Haha, I know that. That's like the only time MK isn't broken.

 

[CoonTail]

LOL word zigsta honestly its terrible how easy it is to get through the tornado at the beginning. Im pretty sure I cancelled it with a razor leaf one time and paused the game I was laughing so hard

 

[Magik0722]

I have seen flamethrower beat MT even when we were both in the same height, i just cant do it on command

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

if they mash the tornado it goes through.

 

[CoonTail]

Ok so if you see a MK being lazy or you dont hear the mashing, flamethrower is the way to go??

 

[Steeler]

no i would always rock smash a tornado, you can rock smash on reaction with how fast the rock itself comes out. the two moves are both only effective from the same zone anyway. plus you shouldn't depend on the MK being dumb about the MT. also, if you DO get through MT with flamethrower at the beginning, cancel it and try to punish the inevitable, accidental drill rush

 

[Charizard92]

Rock Smash vs Meta Knight

Uber move versus uber character

Who will win? (Hopefully Charizard probably Meta Knight)

 

[Steeler]

from my experience, rock smash is actually quite good against MK (at least much more so than against snake, marth, etc) because he can never outprioritize it (except with glide attack and MT if super mashed)

meaning that rock smash countering is ****

the best and most satisfying thing ever is placing the rock smash JUST right when MK dash attacks that the rock appears right when and where his foot gets huge, he'll then take pretty much a full rock smash's worth of damage and get *****

really though, rock smash works better on MK than the vast majority of the cast

 

[CoonTail]

Yes steeler I thought I noticed this and I also found if you manage to sweet spot Rock smash counter MK and get the full 45% it basically instantly gives you the 61%er so putting 61% on like that causes any MK to change his gameplan LOL

 

[Charizard92]

Wow, for the first time, I can say that I was wrong about something about Charizard, Rock smash IS the best move ever (It now gets 5 out of 5 on my typical ranking list, spam away!)

 

[KuroiBlazr]

Just a quick question - just wanted to know if there was a way to stay as Charizard when fighting, saw a vid where charizard died and the next pokemon was charizard - and no the video was not altered or edited

 

[Zigsta]

It's a Brawl hack. There's no way to do that normally in Brawl.

 

[The Brown Scourge]

Wavebouncing, or whatever it is called, his firebreath works really well for Bowzer. Im sure it will be a neat addition to any charisard movelist
Also, hey zigsta!!!!!

 

[Vermy]

Dashdance>wavebounce flamethrower is too good. Using it lots nao.

 

[Bestiarius]

What's wavebouncing again? I probably do it and don't even realize it, like I did with buffering before I knew what that was.

 

[CoonTail]

Wavebouncing is hard to explain but its basically you jump one way in the air then change your aerial momentum with a move so you then get propelled in the opposite direction with that move. If you wavebounce a rock smash forward youd jump forward pull out the rock the basically instead of continuing to move forward in the air youd be propelled backwards and do a retreating aerial rocksmash. It honetly looks extra sexy and when you dont B-stick its even kooler

 

[Kith]

Can you do it with rock smash? I didn't know that lol...I've just done it with flamethrower, which is awesome lol. Run away, then jump and burn 'em :-D. Also, on the ledge you can jump off the ledge (so you're facing away from the stage), then jump and pivot flamethrower onto the stage (which is pretty safe and even more sexy)

 

[0^2]

I've done Wavebouncing and never even knew it...

That is pretty much mind gaming an attack by changing direction in the air?

 

[Vermy]

True true 0^2.

May have found a new way to use nair, if you do this already, speak up.

On a stage like battlefield, fullhop, nair, land on platform. What happens is the flame sits directly underneath charizard, and it autocancelled by the platform. I started playing around with Zard in training mode and that came about. Might be useful against an opponent chasing you.

 

[Kith]

Wait I'm confused now. I thought wavebouncing = b-sticking

 

[0^2]

True true 0^2.

May have found a new way to use nair, if you do this already, speak up.

On a stage like battlefield, fullhop, nair, land on platform. What happens is the flame sits directly underneath charizard, and it autocancelled by the platform. I started playing around with Zard in training mode and that came about. Might be useful against an opponent chasing you.

I've noticed this myself. I tried n-air into f-smash, but that never really worked.

 

[T-block]

autocancel as in virtually no lag at all? that's pretty cool... if it works on a platform it should work on regular ground too, shouldn't it?

 

[Zigsta]

Wavebounced Flamethrower is freaking sexy.

SCOURGE MY BOY! I need to come to AL over winter break so we can get more epic matches in!

 

[Vermy]

Nair autocancels if you sort hop it. But the sweetspot hitbox doesn't stay out for it to be of any amazing use. Using the platform means the flame hitbox stays out a tad longer.

 

[Bestiarius]

Zigsta, if you go to AL, keep going 'til you hit the Barrier Islands on Georgia's southern coast and hit me up! I need to play another PT in person. I'm in St. Simons Island. Pweez!

 

[Zigsta]

Zigsta, if you go to AL, keep going 'til you hit the Barrier Islands on Georgia's southern coast and hit me up! I need to play another PT in person. I'm in St. Simons Island. Pweez!

How far is that exactly?

I'll definitely be going to AL for a future tournament either winter break (if they host one that lines up with my schedule) or summer.

 

[Bestiarius]

Where in AL and I'll tell you. Depending on how you drive, it's about 6-7 hrs. from Birmingham, which, if you're coming from Austin, shouldn't seem all that long comparatively.

 

[Magik0722]

nair autocancel is too good


man i remember when nair was considered one of his worst moves but now i love it.

 

[Zigsta]

Where in AL and I'll tell you.

Tuscaloosa, AL.

 

[Bestiarius]

OK, do a google search and type in "google maps alabama." Click the first link for google maps. A map of the US should come up double click on Alabama. It should zoom in enough to where you can see Tuscaloosa. Now, look at the Georgia cities. See Brunswick? That's the mainland, connected to my island by about a 4-mile causeway, so you'd basically be going to Brunswick. It looks about 400 miles away to me, which would be maybe 7 hrs tops. Probably closer to 5 if you go faster than 60 mph.

 

[Zigsta]

7 hours from Tuscaloosa? Daaaaaaang that's far for me. XD I have a 4 hour drive to Tuscaloosa from LA already, haha. You should just drive to an AL tourney sometime so we can meet up, and maybe we can convince Reflex to join us.

Tempting, yes?

Also, on topic: I've been using nair more and more lately. As Magik already stated, it was once considered terrible, so sometimes I forget about using it, haha.

 

[Toby.]

Nair provides us with a lot of nice setups. It's super handy

 

[Bestiarius]

It is tempting. I'm planning on visiting B-ham soon anyway, so I could look into it. Is the tourney on a weekend? My winter break may not line up with y'all's.

 

[Zigsta]

It is tempting. I'm planning on visiting B-ham soon anyway, so I could look into it. Is the tourney on a weekend? My winter break may not line up with y'all's.

I'm sure it will be on a weekend. If I stay at the same place I did for TCS5, it'll be at an apartment in Birmingham. Epic Smashfest before and after the tourney. It was glorious.

I'll work on finding out when the tourney over winter break will be, provided that there is one.

 

[Bestiarius]

We could have another epic Smashfest. That'd be TIGHT! I could get some REAL experience. Sweet. Talk to me when it is. i need some tourney playtime desperately. Then everyone could know how bad I am, not just me .

 

[CoonTail]

Ive got to use N-air alot more because Im still stuck in my old PT mentality as far as some moves go and at this point I gotta break this crap down!!!

Wavebouncing zard's flamethrower and rocksmash on the to do list along with more work on N-air. Any tips on this stuff guys to get me to implement them more in my gameplay

 

[Toby.]

Landing the non sweet spotted component of nair is what you should be looking to do if you want to follow it up. At lower percentages you can string nair into a free jab combo, jab to grab, or single jab lock to rock smash.

Charizard's jab lock is very hard to do though.