Character Rankings List - Post-March 2010

[Kiwikomix]

@ SqueeUC: This would be very useful if it took in to factor every player in every tournament. If we could somehow find records of that, pretty much every character would have a less-than-zero success rate, but it would be the minute differences that would count. It could be a fairly accurate list if you did that, but of course popularity would be an issue. However, the first 8 places in a tourney don't accurately reflect the placement overall, so it would mean a ton of work on your part.

 

[SqueeUC]

I don't know what we can draw (if anything) from my analysis.

 

[goodkid]

I really feel top 4 should be 2.5 as opposed to 3 points. Either that or top 4 be split to separate top 2. But separating 2nd place from 3rd and 4th would be a lot of work to go back through, but I do feel it'd be worth it. Maybe 3 points for top 2 and 2 points for top 4. I don't know, I just feel top 4 is carrying more weight than it currently should as of late.

I agree with this, but just make top 4 = 2.5.

I'm pretty much keeping the data to Smashboards tournaments where the top placers aren't scrubs and thus results come in fairly consistently. After all, it doesn't matter if there are 100 entrants or 20 entrants - if there are 8 good people in the 100-entrant tourney and 8 good people in the 20-entrant one, results and subsequent character rankings will still be essentially just as relevant as each other.

That and I'm too lazy to figure out how I should account for tournament size.

An even better idea would be to weigh larger tournaments. If the tournament has 100+ entrants, add 0.5 to all of the top 8 characters, and also weigh smaller tournaments, if the tournament has 20-0 entrants or out-of-smashboards tourney make 1st= 2, top 4= 1, top 8= 0 or 1st= 3, top4=1.5, top 8 =.5

I really want my "scrub" tourney I held accounted for. There were 32 entrants, & was switched to single-elimination, because it was a lock-in, and I didn't have it organized enough to make it double-elimination as I'd planned. Not many people knew about smashboards, but there were a few who were aware of Melee wavedashing, & other advanced techs.

H-F "Smash All Night"
1. goodkid-(Zelda)
2. Vlad-(Wolf)
3. Trez-(Falco, Marth)
3. Christian-(Ike)
5. HOSI-(Kirby)
5. ARed-(Pit, Sonic)
5. Andrew-(Pokemon Trainer)
5. Michael L.-(Samus)

 

[Xiivi]

Jesiah, tournament sauce? I need a link to it...

It was another one of Arena's biweekly tournaments. Except I'm not there for the summer so I didn't know the characters people used and thus didn't send it to you as I usually do.

I agree with this, but just make top 4 = 2.5.

I agree, top 4 is holding way too much weight in comparison to 1st place.

I really want my "scrub" tourney I held accounted for. There were 32 entrants, & was switched to single-elimination, because it was a lock-in, and I didn't have it organized enough to make it double-elimination as I'd planned. Not many people knew about smashboards, but there were a few who were aware of Melee wavedashing, & other advanced techs.

Single elimination? Not well organized? No one really knowing about this site? Not even advertised on this site or allisbrawl? A few players might have been good? You had exactly 32 enterants? You yourself calling it a scrub tourney? Earlier in this thread you said you knew you'd win given the competition? You really only want it counted to get Zelda more points?

 

[Cat Fight]

I agree with this, but just make top 4 = 2.5.



An even better idea would be to weigh larger tournaments. If the tournament has 100+ entrants, add 0.5 to all of the top 8 characters, and also weigh smaller tournaments, if the tournament has 20-0 entrants or out-of-smashboards tourney make 1st= 2, top 4= 1, top 8= 0 or 1st= 3, top4=1.5, top 8 =.5

I really want my "scrub" tourney I held accounted for. There were 32 entrants, & was switched to single-elimination, because it was a lock-in, and I didn't have it organized enough to make it double-elimination as I'd planned. Not many people knew about smashboards, but there were a few who were aware of Melee wavedashing, & other advanced techs.

H-F "Smash All Night"
1. goodkid-(Zelda)
2. Vlad-(Wolf)
3. Trez-(Falco, Marth)
3. Christian-(Ike)
5. HOSI-(Kirby)
5. ARed-(Pit, Sonic)
5. Andrew-(Pokemon Trainer)
5. Michael L.-(Samus)

*shakes head*

 

[JesiahTEG]

http://www.arena51.com/nuke/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2184&start=15

 

[d34thiseternal]

I noticed in reading the first fourteen pages (Got bored afterwards, sorry if posted by someone else) that people have an issue with there not being a % of use base in figuring points. I think, and though I am in the minority, that the points system should remain the way it is. There are a couple of reasons for this; one, this is one person doing this list (Keep up the good work, Ankoku) and two, this list allows those going to tournaments to prepare for the Meta-game. Look at it this way, if say, using the nineteen Snakes to One Yoshi example, if there was a point-division system, that snake would have less points than Yoshi, placing less emphasis on meta-gaming for Snake. Therefore, people would prepare less for a snake match-up, and would look more at how to beat Yoshi.

With the points being the way they are, it allows people to better predict what they will face.

Just food for thought

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I noticed in reading the first fourteen pages (Got bored afterwards, sorry if posted by someone else) that people have an issue with there not being a % of use base in figuring points. I think, and though I am in the minority, that the points system should remain the way it is. There are a couple of reasons for this; one, this is one person doing this list (Keep up the good work, Ankoku) and two, this list allows those going to tournaments to prepare for the Meta-game. Look at it this way, if say, using the nineteen Snakes to One Yoshi example, if there was a point-division system, that snake would have less points than Yoshi, placing less emphasis on meta-gaming for Snake. Therefore, people would prepare less for a snake match-up, and would look more at how to beat Yoshi.

With the points being the way they are, it allows people to better predict what they will face.

Just food for thought

Agreed, however, there is only one problem with the system as it is that it would be nice if anyone could handle (not Ankoku, he did a great job, and I understand that he is doing this on his own). I want to know which character has the most potential, so it would be helpful if I had a relative idea of their percentage use compared to their victories. I am tired of people thinking of Metaknight and Snake as the best tier, and I want to know if it is because of popularity or because they are absolutely the best. What I really want is to know absolutely if the melee fans are correct in saying the game prefers MK and Snake, So it would be nice if their was a link to the tourney trees in the tournaments being used that show the progression of characters (not players) to first place, so that I can make a judgement for myself of the godliness of snake and whether Mario's lack of popularity contributes to it.
Ankoku, you did a great job with these results. Do you know where I can view some of the tourney trees (by character) you used. Also, if you already put in a link somewhere, could you direct me to it since I missed a lot of the middle pages. Or anyone, for that matter, with a good set of tourney trees, could you put in a link to them?

 

[papermarkis]

% of use does not matter. As it was said before in this thread, Ken would still win if he was put into a tournament with 100 Ness players. If the character is truly good, they should be winning their tournaments anyway. Chu Dat plays a high-mid tier character that is played by very few others, yet he gets far in tournaments.

 

[Xiivi]

I see you changed top 4 to 2.5. It really does help, thanks. I just didn't like how two top 4s could outweigh a win. Being equal to a win does help prevent top 4 from holding so much weight.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Dang......the Gap between Snake and MK got even LARGER now that your on a .5, 2.5, and 5 scale. Yet again, the change was likely needed, 2 Top 4 placings shouldn't exactly outweigh a Win.


Is anyone ever going to catch up to Snake?

 

[Xiivi]

Is anyone ever going to catch up to Snake?

If you were to separate the EC from other regions then Snake wouldn't have nearly as big of a gap as it seems. Haha.

 

[Kasai]

Just a little calculation error:

12 Marth (2 top8, 3 top4, 6 pts) 1 + 7.5 = 8.5

 

[missingnomaster]

I don't know if someone posted this earlier, but it goes from 1-2-3(tie between two characters)-5. No 4.

 

[Zankoku]

In tournaments, you see 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 7, 7. It's literally impossible to place 6th or 8th. Same deal here.

 

[DanGR]

Hey, I'm wondering how big the tournaments have to be for them to count. You don't clarify this in the OP.

Anyways, good job recording and keeping up with this stuff.

 

[Dragmire]

most of them usually have 50+ people from what I've gathered

 

[Yonder]

It sorta blows when a good character is placed in low tier, just because they are underused

To name some off the top of my head: Luigi, Diddy Kong, and Mario, all middle tier characters.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

% of use does not matter. As it was said before in this thread, Ken would still win if he was put into a tournament with 100 Ness players. If the character is truly good, they should be winning their tournaments anyway. Chu Dat plays a high-mid tier character that is played by very few others, yet he gets far in tournaments.

If ken won with Marth in a tournament of 100 Ness players, than Ness would be higher tier because he would fill all the top 4 and top 8 ranks. Thats why I keep bringing up the tourney tree thing.

 

[Xiivi]

If ken won with Marth in a tournament of 100 Ness players, than Ness would be higher tier because he would fill all the top 4 and top 8 ranks. Thats why I keep bringing up the tourney tree thing.

Ok, here's the thing. We already made 1 win worth 10x as much as a top 8 and 2x as much as a top 4. This is enough to balance out any over population. Why? Because you'll never see a top 8 result as extreme as:
1 Ivysaur
2 Marth
3 Marth
4 Marth
5 Marth
5 Marth
7 Marth
7 Marth

The most extreme ones you ever see are some of the EC tournaments with lots of Snakes in the top 8. But you know what? Other characters do break into that top 8. And you also know what? Snake is usually the winner too. So the character that one the tournament, isn't getting overshadowed.

Also these EC tournies usually have tons of enterants, and there are usually a large variety of characters that enter. But you know what? Snake beats all of them in the end and gets first. It would be a problem if like Wario was winning all of these tournaments and then Snake's top 4s and top 8s put him above. Oh wait, Wario does win a lot of tournaments despite being underplayed and mainly only having futile and a few others playing him. But he is still higher on the list than other more popular characters.

The list balances itself in the end. Please stop creating absurd hypothetical extremes that never happen. We already account for the small extremes that happen thanks to how the point system has been made. There's no need to worry, your character isn't magically going up and Snake isn't magically going down no matter how you try to stack it.

 

[Love.Zelduck]

North Stockton Brawl Tournament
6/07/08

1: DSF - Snake
2: Edge - MK
3: Dizzy - Wario
4: King - Marth
5: Lucien - Fox/Wolf
5: Meep - Snake
7: KOF - ???
7: Ajax - Snake

 

[Browny]

could anyone tell me who is winning these tourneys with lucario? i just wanna find some videos of them. i figure its azen but theres hardly any videos up of any recent finals with him

 

[Kyari]

There's a couple of people in the MW (Blood_Hawk, Mendoza) who play Lucario but I don't know if there are any matches of them on Youtube, sadly. Next time I attend a tourney with these mofo's in it I'll have a VCR so hopefully I'll be able to get their matches in.

 

[Kasai]

could anyone tell me who is winning these tourneys with lucario? i just wanna find some videos of them. i figure its azen but theres hardly any videos up of any recent finals with him

I know a few of them are Azen...

Here's some videos.

C3 winners finals with Forte
Fight 1
Fight 2
Fight 3
Fight 4

Mew2King vs Azen Grand Finals
Fight 1
Fight 2
Fight 3
Fight 4
Fight 5


Thats all that I've seen. There might be more and possibly some other people winning with lucario or some non recorded fights.

 

[goodkid]

Mendoza vids on this channel: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?p=r&user=sfiveo13&page=2

Bloodhawk on this channel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLulIHWMhzY

 

[Keitaro]

Wow, simply amazing Ankoku. Here's some results from a tourney with PA/NJ/NY people in it:

COT III 6/1/08
http://allisbrawl.com/event.aspx?id=1526

1. Mew2King "DDD"
2. Velocity "Game & Watch"
3. Jman "Snake"
4. Inui "Marth"
5. Keitaro "Falco"
5. Emblem Lord "Marth"
7. NinjaLink "Diddy"
7. RyokoYaska "Zelda"

 

[Zankoku]

I already used that tournament, Keitaro, but thanks for the help.

 

[choknater]

Zelduck: KOF uses ZSS, Zelda, and Sheik

Ankoku: It's nice to see the results after you have started over for the summer. Seeing DDD's placing, it seems that people have been finding his weaknesses lately. The only person who has consistently placed high with DDD lately is Mew2King (with his ever so questionable playstyle... hahah.)

 

[thumbswayup]

You'll learn more playing against M2k than anyone else. He'll flat out laugh at you if you do the same thing twice in a row. He catches on like crazy and reads you perfectly. Basically, in order to beat him, you must be completely random in a battle *looks at KDJ*

 

[Recognize]

****. I wonder If anyone will ever catch up with Snake.

 

[fkacyan]

If the metagame ever evolves to the point where a lot of people can beat him, yes.

 

[PK Hexagon]

Did you ever get the results from HOBO5?

 

[d34thiseternal]

I used the hypothetical because, though it will never happen, it makes the number differences easier to see. Now, you will never see a tournament with 100 Ness players, or 100 of any other character, but you may indeed see 1/8 of a tournament playing Snake, Metaknight, or someone else, my point was that the current number set-up allowed people to better predict the numbers, even if the character list in a 64 man tournament is never listed. This also allows the natural evolution of skill to progress. Not to mention, it gives the poor Yoshi players a chance to sneak up on someone and get a win or two...

I do think that the number usage per win would be nice, though a bit unrealistic. From what I gathered, a tournament only records top 8 and up.

 

[Zaid]

That is what I was thinking....
The list could change a bit if the percentages of each character in a tournament could be gotten so that would really tell us what is the real percentage of the character that is making the top 8

Lets say in a tornament of 100 people are 25 snake 10 marth 20 pit 20 metaknight 15 mr game & watch 9 dedede 1 pikachu

and in the top 8 the number went

2 snake = 25%
2 marth = 25%
1 metaknight = 12.5%
1 pikachu = 12.5%
1 mr g&w= 12.5%
1 ddd= 12.5%

That would be sucha a valuable data because then we can know how the character performed in the overall tournament.... But being that almost imposible.... only the top 8 are taken (thought it would be nice to get all those results)

 

[lethminite]

i don't know how many AUS tournaments there will be, but i was wondering how you would integrate them.

when brawl is finally released here, the metagame will be starting from scratch, with very few people having played the game, so the mains of those that got foreign versions will likely shape the results, rather then which character is good.

are you going to give us a month to get started before counting our results, or just say "a tournament is a tournament" and count them from day 1.

just i know someone who is really good with link, only because he mained him in melee, and has had brawl since 2 days after japan. i doubt he was stand a chance in a US tourny, but i can see him winning an aus one, as long as some other person like him isn't in it too.

 

[Spin-Dash]

... Darn! I knew that you were asking a bunch of tournaments for the top 8 for a reason!

Curse being 9th place. XD;

 

[Browny]

im pretty sure all the australian tourney goers imported brawl anyway, and the best players already know who to use, whether they own the game or not. new players wont stand a chance against people who imported for a while

 

[Trozz]

Someone is really contributing to Lucario's success. Good stuff.

 

[thumbswayup]

Someone is really contributing to Lucario's success. Good stuff.

His name is Azen.

 

[Overswarm]

Don't forget to get Smash and Coffee in here :D