Character Rankings List - Post-March 2010

[Nigerian Star Storm]

You and me both.

Ditto


Anyways, hopefully a slew of results get posted tomorrow like always.

 

[Zankoku]

Summer 2008 List is started. It's pretty bare so far, but Snake's managed to take the top spot already. :V

So much for "people are finding ways around Snake."

 

[Browny]

oh snap, lucario takes falcos spot :D

although i do think people are finding ways around snake. personally, i think snake is quite simply unbeatable and theres no excuse if you lose while using him. besides obvious skill differences in players, the fact that hes not winning everything is enough to prove to me that people are finding ways around him.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Metaknight isn't second anymore -_-.


He will rise back and claim what is his.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Summer 2008 List is started. It's pretty bare so far, but Snake's managed to take the top spot already. :V

So much for "people are finding ways around Snake."

Blame New England for having a tournament every week, and 7/10 of its top players are Snake.

 

[Annhialator Zero]

Wooo for Lucario being 4th

 

[Adapt]

Sweet, the summer results have started.

Snake is still ******** though

 

[Handorin]

Where are the Pikachu players? @_@ He needs to get back on that list.

Can you add a Spring 2008 so people dont get confused? I was looking at the list and missed the easy to read version at the top and I saw the previous one and it kinda confused me.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Well **** me sideways with a lunchbox, the ICs are starting to rise finally!

 

[Zankoku]

Can you add a Spring 2008 so people dont get confused? I was looking at the list and missed the easy to read version at the top and I saw the previous one and it kinda confused me.

Huh? I thought I already did...

 

[tutata]

We need to move up captain falcon since silent sprectre placed third in a small tourney, and well see if he keeps on playing captain and moving him up XD

 

[Ulevo]

Summer 2008 List is started. It's pretty bare so far, but Snake's managed to take the top spot already. :V

So much for "people are finding ways around Snake."

Statistically, Snake is easily one of the best characters. There are likely ways to deal with him, but it's a tad overwhelming when everyone and their Mother uses him.

 

[D1]

Taken from the latest NYC Smash weekly (yesterdays)

1st D1(Falco), and D.I.King aka Aoshi(Pit) (split the winnings)
3rd ELI (Wario)
4th shadow (MK)
5thSnake(ZSS) NInjaLink(Diddy)
7th Starzonedge(Olimar) I forget who else placed 7th T__T
9th Shinigami (Kirby)

Full results weren't posted but I had a good look at the bracket and remembered mostly everyone's placings and IMed the ppl on the list for their placings to make sure everything's accurate.

I dunno if I did it correctly Ankoku...was I supposed to post this here or in pms?

 

[Cat Fight]

I'm gonna try and put Jiggly in mid tier... :"|

 

[Ryazan]

This whole thing is bull****. Every single person who was good in Melee (minus the space animals) is U rank. How the hell are Marth and Sheik and ZSS U??? How come no one is playing/winning with anyone who was high-medium tier in Melee? Why are all the newcomers getting all the action?

 

[Zankoku]

How about, because the summer list just started getting results yesterday, and if you really want to see a more aged rankings list, you scroll down a little?

 

[DKKountry]

I think this system sucks. You should make a ranking system based on scientifically-analyzed games of pick-up sticks.

JOKING!
Seriously, it's cool that this guy is keeping up with the thread and everything. Very informative.

 

[nevershootme]

Summer 2008 List is started. It's pretty bare so far, but Snake's managed to take the top spot already. :V

So much for "people are finding ways around Snake."

there are ways, it's just that people don't have a clue on what to do when there's a kazillion different snake playstyles to deal with

 

[Tom]

Dude, Ankoku, you should clearly separate the two lists ^^ try putting the Summer 08 list in a quote box or something

 

[Xiivi]

I really feel top 4 should be 2.5 as opposed to 3 points. Either that or top 4 be split to separate top 2. But separating 2nd place from 3rd and 4th would be a lot of work to go back through, but I do feel it'd be worth it. Maybe 3 points for top 2 and 2 points for top 4. I don't know, I just feel top 4 is carrying more weight than it currently should as of late.

 

[Masky]

Wait, why is Kirby in his own tier? What?

 

[memphischains]

can we forbid people saying things like the person above, its getting old

 

[Browny]

I really feel top 4 should be 2.5 as opposed to 3 points. Either that or top 4 be split to separate top 2. But separating 2nd place from 3rd and 4th would be a lot of work to go back through, but I do feel it'd be worth it. Maybe 3 points for top 2 and 2 points for top 4. I don't know, I just feel top 4 is carrying more weight than it currently should as of late.

yep, either that, or add more weight to an actual win.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Is there any way to look up the proportions of the entrants as compared to their wins in these tournaments? If it is a rediculous amount of work, don't worry about it, but I am curious to know if Mario is terrible character or if he is just underused. Also, I am curious to know if Snake dominates the others partially because a lot of people find him cool and fun to use, or if it's due completely to his apparent superiority as a character.

 

[sweener]

Hey someone told me New England has one every week. I WAS UNAWARE! where are these tourney's. any in the boston area?

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Seriously though, is there an easy way to look up which characters are most common in a tournament, as compared to how well they do? Maybe a few official tourney trees to look at? Does anyone know where I could find something like that?

 

[JhMS]

Good.Fox won one.Now lets get DK in the list.
Ahhh,sucks to not have a lot of tournaments here.
BTW this is one of the best threads in Smashboards.Thanks OP.

 

[Vaul]

Ok, new to the thread, going to attempt to phrase this as conservative as possible....

I read the first couple pages and the three most recent ones. I've seen this question asked once but it appeared to never be addressed: Shouldn't tournament size be a factor? I'm assuming this is different from representation, i.e. the comparison of a character's placement to the extent that character is used, and that's why the list is ordered as it is. However, this does not account for tournament size. For example, two tournaments are hosted on a given day. One tournament as 100 entrants and the other has 20. Let's say Snake mainers happen to be equally represented at these two tournaments, with each having half of the entrants maining Snake (50 and 10 participants, respectively). A Snake wins each tournament. Now although the representative model accounts for Snake's popularity, it does NOT account for their overall performance in regards to how many opponents they had to face. Specifically regarding the two winners, they will be responsible for Snake gaining 5 points each. Shouldn't more credit be given to the 100 entrant Snake over the 20 entrant Snake?

I'm not sure if you have a specific quota regarding tournament size or 'legitimacy', but even if you had a minimum threshold requirement the data will still be extremely distorted (assuming taking tournament size into account is always more accurate than not taking it into account). Although highly, highly unlikely, would the outcome still be considered accurate if Snakes won tournaments that on average had less entrants than the tournaments won by Wolf? Although this is a radical case, the distortion of accuracy still occurs overall, unless I'm incredibly foolish and this has already been addressed.

 

[Zankoku]

I'm pretty much keeping the data to Smashboards tournaments where the top placers aren't scrubs and thus results come in fairly consistently. After all, it doesn't matter if there are 100 entrants or 20 entrants - if there are 8 good people in the 100-entrant tourney and 8 good people in the 20-entrant one, results and subsequent character rankings will still be essentially just as relevant as each other.

That and I'm too lazy to figure out how I should account for tournament size.

 

[Vaul]

True, but in regards to the 8 good people thing, the top 8 participants in the 100 tournament were pitted against 92 opponents while the top 8 in the 20 tournament only had to compete with 12. Although in theory the 8 best players will always beat their lesser competitors, this is Brawl we're talking about, so the historically better player may not always win. Yet this gets into subjectivity and what one defines as the 'better' player, but there's no way in hell I'm getting into that right now. I suppose the results will essentially still be relevant to one another, but I felt compelled to ask....for some reason.

I'd volunteer to try to make up an equation that includes tournament size, representation, and rankings variables, but I'm definitely too braindead at the moment to attempt this right now; maybe I will tomorrow just for kicks. If anyone thinks this a semi-good idea and is aroused by math, please feel free to submit a solution which includes tournament size.

 

[Swordplay]

I do think this is pretty valid as far as tiers could go. I would like to know how the popularity factor played in though.

for example. I am sure there were alot more metaknight players than link players in the tourney so they have more opportunities to place higher.

I think the best way to do it is do this point system and divide it by the number of times that character is played. some complicated formula might work......

 

[JesiahTEG]

1. Pika Pika (Pikachu)
2 JesiahTEG (Marth/Lucario)
3 Silverspawn (MK/ROB)
4 Asylum (Snake)
5 BigT (MK)
5 Ryoto (Wolf)
7 Andy (Diddy Kong)
7 Beast (Fox)

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

I've been wondering this for awhile. How do you figure it for people that use more than one character through out the tourney?

Let's just say Cort played Snake and Meta.

How do you factor it if it's a 75/25 split and a 50/50 split? Just curious.

 

[Dragmire]

I believe he gives full pionts for both like when I used snake and ganon (most ****ed up combonation of chars)

 

[Zankoku]

Jesiah, tournament sauce? I need a link to it...

 

[SqueeUC]

I found the Point to Representation ratio for each character. This is the average number of points the character gets for each representation on the list (ie: top8, top4, win). This is done by dividing the points by how many times they are represented on this list. Each rank is done by the number of standard deviations (x) they are from the average.



A Rank x > 1
Wario 3.18
Yoshi 3.00
CF 3.00
Pit 3.00
Pika 2.98

B Rank 1 > x > 0
DDD 2.61
Lucario 2.56
Falco 2.55
Donkey 2.53
Snake 2.51
Kirby 2.42
Zelda 2.36
Olimar 2.32
Peach 2.31
Sonic 2.31
Lucas 2.25
Meta 2.21
IC 2.18

C Rank 0 > x > -1
Rob 2.03
G&W 1.95
Sheik 1.95
Luigi 1.95
Ike 1.94
Wolf 1.94
TL 1.93
Marth 1.93
ZSS 1.89
Ness 1.86
Fox 1.84
PT 1.75

D Rank -1 > x
Bowser 1.57
Mario 1.57
Diddy 1.41
Samus 1.33
Jiggs 1.33
Link 1.13
Gannon 1.13


So from this list we can see how well the characters are doing points wise. So on average, every time Wario places on this list Wario is awarded 3.18 points which means Wario's win to top 4,top8 placement ratio is far greater than Gannon's ratio which only awards Gannon 1.13 points each time Gannon is placed on this list. We can also look at who is the average point gainer.

So what does this mean? I don't know. Look at the numbers, understand them and then draw conclusions from them. Interesting analysis or useless info? You decide.

DATA:
Average Point to Representation ratio = 2.12
Standard Deviation = 0.53
Time wasted on this = 50 min.

 

[Ryazan]

How about, because the summer list just started getting results yesterday, and if you really want to see a more aged rankings list, you scroll down a little?

I don't care about the age of the list, I just really don't like how this is majorly dependent on how popular the characters were before anyone even knew how good they were. This thing is even worse than tiers. This may be based somewhat on tournament performance, but say there were millions of horrible Snake players and one or two really really good Yoshi players. By this system, Snake would top the list and Yoshi would be at the bottom, because even though the few master Yoshi players could kick the many novice Snakes' *****, the Snake players have overwhelming numbers.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

I don't care about the age of the list, I just really don't like how this is majorly dependent on how popular the characters were before anyone even knew how good they were. This thing is even worse than tiers. This may be based somewhat on tournament performance, but say there were millions of horrible Snake players and one or two really really good Yoshi players. By this system, Snake would top the list and Yoshi would be at the bottom, because even though the few master Yoshi players could kick the many novice Snakes' *****, the Snake players have overwhelming numbers.

Jesus he has gone over this argument thousands of times, if you actually took the time to read this topic you would understand this by now. Leave the man be.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I found the Point to Representation ratio for each character. This is the average number of points the character gets for each representation on the list (ie: top8, top4, win). This is done by dividing the points by how many times they are represented on this list. Each rank is done by the number of standard deviations (x) they are from the average.



A Rank x > 1
Wario 3.18
Yoshi 3.00
CF 3.00
Pit 3.00
Pika 2.98

B Rank 1 > x > 0
DDD 2.61
Lucario 2.56
Falco 2.55
Donkey 2.53
Snake 2.51
Kirby 2.42
Zelda 2.36
Olimar 2.32
Peach 2.31
Sonic 2.31
Lucas 2.25
Meta 2.21
IC 2.18

C Rank 0 > x > -1
Rob 2.03
G&W 1.95
Sheik 1.95
Luigi 1.95
Ike 1.94
Wolf 1.94
TL 1.93
Marth 1.93
ZSS 1.89
Ness 1.86
Fox 1.84
PT 1.75

D Rank -1 > x
Bowser 1.57
Mario 1.57
Diddy 1.41
Samus 1.33
Jiggs 1.33
Link 1.13
Gannon 1.13


So from this list we can see how well the characters are doing points wise. So on average, every time Wario places on this list Wario is awarded 3.18 points which means Wario's win to top 4,top8 placement ratio is far greater than Gannon's ratio which only awards Gannon 1.13 points each time Gannon is placed on this list. We can also look at who is the average point gainer.

So what does this mean? I don't know. Look at the numbers, understand them and then draw conclusions from them. Interesting analysis or useless info? You decide.

DATA:
Average Point to Representation ratio = 2.12
Standard Deviation = 0.53
Time wasted on this = 50 min.

I am confused as to what this means. Is this a usage-to-victory list, representing the number of times a character is used as compared to the number of times it gets a certain rank in tournaments?

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

I found the Point to Representation ratio for each character. This is the average number of points the character gets for each representation on the list (ie: top8, top4, win). This is done by dividing the points by how many times they are represented on this list. Each rank is done by the number of standard deviations (x) they are from the average.



A Rank x > 1
Wario 3.18
Yoshi 3.00
CF 3.00
Pit 3.00
Pika 2.98

B Rank 1 > x > 0
DDD 2.61
Lucario 2.56
Falco 2.55
Donkey 2.53
Snake 2.51
Kirby 2.42
Zelda 2.36
Olimar 2.32
Peach 2.31
Sonic 2.31
Lucas 2.25
Meta 2.21
IC 2.18

C Rank 0 > x > -1
Rob 2.03
G&W 1.95
Sheik 1.95
Luigi 1.95
Ike 1.94
Wolf 1.94
TL 1.93
Marth 1.93
ZSS 1.89
Ness 1.86
Fox 1.84
PT 1.75

D Rank -1 > x
Bowser 1.57
Mario 1.57
Diddy 1.41
Samus 1.33
Jiggs 1.33
Link 1.13
Gannon 1.13


So from this list we can see how well the characters are doing points wise. So on average, every time Wario places on this list Wario is awarded 3.18 points which means Wario's win to top 4,top8 placement ratio is far greater than Gannon's ratio which only awards Gannon 1.13 points each time Gannon is placed on this list. We can also look at who is the average point gainer.

So what does this mean? I don't know. Look at the numbers, understand them and then draw conclusions from them. Interesting analysis or useless info? You decide.

DATA:
Average Point to Representation ratio = 2.12
Standard Deviation = 0.53
Time wasted on this = 50 min.

I really don't have a clue what this would be for lol.

This would be heavily misguided and biased towards characters who have one great players beating the crap out of others (Futile's Wario) and almost if ever lose and character that have been used like once or twice but placed high (See Yoshi).