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Character Competitive Impressions

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Mr. Johan

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I coulda sworn Palutena was rock bottom on some preliminary tier lists because of the custom moves debate, not because of her own fundamentals. :X

But still, anyone who didn't have Palutena and Peach in the upper rungs in their personal lists were quick to write them off. You don't get to be low tier with all those options at your disposal.
 

Luco

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I'm not gonna lie, I didn't suspect Palutena as being a high tier contender, but I will say that I saw her as being mid tier or possibly higher and to be frank I still do. As Thinkaman pointed out, the tech is awesome but a bit impractical at times; and although Palutena's overall kit including customs is still pretty strong, I get the feeling other characters will still kinda trump her out at the higher end. Dunno if i'd consider her top 10, but I think it's totally possible for her to be in the higher half of the roster. :)
 

Hippieslayer

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After testing Lightweight exploit more, I don't think it's amazing, just really good.

Having to compulsively seek out platforms (an unsafe neutral position no doubt) like a crack addict once every 10 seconds is not a workable long-term strategy.

It's really nice to be able to refresh Lightweight in a lot of situations, but don't expect to be able to keep it up 24/7 against a human, at least not without some compromise.

(Palutena is still top 15 or even 10 imo. All you other posers can step down, I was the ORIGINAL Palutena high-tier hipster!)
Yeah but the opponent has to focus on keeping her from refreshing it too. So even if she can't pull it off she can capitalize off of it, it forces her opponent to adjust his game limiting his/hers options, sets up for more reads etc etc
 

Thinkaman

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Yeah but the opponent has to focus on keeping her from refreshing it too. So even if she can't pull it off she can capitalize off of it, it forces her opponent to adjust his game limiting his/hers options, sets up for more reads etc etc
So, they are forced to attack a non-blocking target on a platform? Horror of horrors!

Rosalina, eat your heart out.
 

NairWizard

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Once you're on the platform you can mix up into other options knowing that your opponent is trying to prevent you from getting a second Lightweight, so it's far from bad for Palutena.

I'm concerned more about the ramifications of losing Lightweight (being in negative state) with a still-living opponent on stage. Palutena drops several tiers in that condition.

I run Counter in most matchups anyway. But. It's a neat trick.

edit: re: @A2ZOMG: Robin v. Falco, I see Dark Pit and Pit being even with Robin and Falco as clearly losing. Don't think that it's a discussion worth having in this thread, but Falco is kind of underrated so nice to see some representation for him.
 
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Thinkaman

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In what universe is attacking someone on a platform from the main stage a commitment or remotely dangerous? Every character in the game can do this safely. The defender gets literally no advantage on block or dodge against most aerials. Being on platforms is terrible!

Have you every been on a platform and had someone *not* try to attack you? You're not "forcing" them to do anything, that's what everyone in the game was already going to do! (Unless they have something they'd prefer to charge, rather than enjoy the free advantage.)

Lightweight's penalty state is surprisingly tame. It reduces her d-throw followup options, but has almost no impact on her defensive game otherwise. What's more, Super Speed and Jump Glide (as well as Warp/Rocket Jump) are unaffected!
 

Hippieslayer

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Because she doesn't HAVE to go onto the platform and refresh lightweight. But her opponent will expect it in a number of situations and act accordingly since it's important to keep her from doing it, hence commitment. It's like how Wario having his waft and DK having his punch winded forces the opponent to adjust geez.
 

ChampKing

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In what universe is attacking someone on a platform from the main stage a commitment or remotely dangerous? Every character in the game can do this safely. The defender gets literally no advantage on block or dodge against most aerials. Being on platforms is terrible!

Have you every been on a platform and had someone *not* try to attack you? You're not "forcing" them to do anything, that's what everyone in the game was already going to do! (Unless they have something they'd prefer to charge, rather than enjoy the free advantage.)

Lightweight's penalty state is surprisingly tame. It reduces her d-throw followup options, but has almost no impact on her defensive game otherwise. What's more, Super Speed and Jump Glide (as well as Warp/Rocket Jump) are unaffected!
Lil Mac possibly. People seem afraid to use his aerials.
 

Thinkaman

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Because she doesn't HAVE to go onto the platform and refresh lightweight. But her opponent will expect it in a number of situations and act accordingly since it's important to keep her from doing it, hence commitment. It's like how Wario having his waft and DK having his punch winded forces the opponent to adjust geez.
No, it's not even remotely like those things.

A character having incentive to make themselves completely vulnerable in no way provides threat.

It's not like I'm going to play differently because you might jump onto a platform.

It's just... if you do... I'm going to hit you. Safely, at zero risk to myself. Because you're on a platform.

Lil Mac possibly. People seem afraid to use his aerials.
Little Mac uair is safe though weak, his u-smash hits platforms on BF, and while unsafe his up-b is fast and highly punishing; Little Mac can up-b Palutena attempting Lightweight on reaction.

Edit: On low platforms, sharking side-b works as well.
 
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Shaya

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Palutena is not 'screwed' by being in the cooldown of light weight, she still has super speed shenanigans to cover it. You tend to only use both when it's for a guaranteed follow up (that unfortunately kills), otherwise you must have one or the other available lest you're worse than Mac off stage. Also much like Rosa, they aren't broken without their little overpowered mechanic box, but because you tend to be forced to approach them in their down times, they just naturally have a grand time in every match up (dash attack isn't suddenly not invincible, nor does her monstrous grab range get shorter, nor does her jab stop being [one of] the best jab).

It's a bit of hyperbole for me to say she's Sonic 100% of the time now, she obviously will not, but the implications of resetting off of every grab or knock away is pretty daunting, seeing as how surviving against this character usually involves having light speed run out when you finally got dash grabbed by her pew pew pewing around the place and have that good few seconds to advance against her by the time you get your feet back on the ground.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's some bull **** super speed tech that can be pulled off that lets you glide right over a platform that you cancel and then while still gliding perform platform drop light weight all the while yelling "YOU'RE TOO SLOW" to your opponent across the table.
 
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Thinkaman

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Palutena is not 'screwed' by being in the cooldown of light weight, she still has super speed shenanigans to cover it. You tend to only use both when it's for a guaranteed follow up (that unfortunately kills), otherwise you must have one or the other available lest you're worse than Mac off stage.
Jump Glide is an extreme distance recovery, and Warp is super reliable/safe. Her recovery is in the better half of the cast without LW or SS.

With LW and Super Speed (using Jump Glide), she can actually make ~1.5 laps around FD without touching it.

It's a bit of hyperbole for me to say she's Sonic 100% of the time now, she obviously will not, but the implications of resetting off of every grab or knock away is pretty daunting
Well, she can get a free refresh out of grab, but Palutena normally prefers followups, particularly due to d-throw. I can't think of any situation where I'd prefer a refresh over a d-throw followup. I *might* refresh if they are at a high %, I am in the penalty state (or about to be), and want to b-throw.

Otherwise I only anticipating going for a refresh after certain successful on-stage aerials, and rarely f-tilts or multi-jabs.

Edit:
The rising superiority of Lightweight (Counter is still a very viable option though imo) erodes the dwindling chance of Reflect Barrier being used. All 3 down-bs synergize heavily with Super Speed, while Reflect Barrier greatly prefers Counter or Firework. Running Lightweight without based Super Speed is risky and dubious.
 
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Hippieslayer

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No, it's not even remotely like those things.

A character having incentive to make themselves completely vulnerable in no way provides threat.

It's not like I'm going to play differently because you might jump onto a platform.

It's just... if you do... I'm going to hit you. Safely, at zero risk to myself. Because you're on a platform.
I give up. You're too stupid.
 

Thinkaman

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Lemme write you a play, in three acts:

Act 1

:4mario: Time to prove I'm the best!
:4dk: I'm charging my giant punch!
:4mario: Crap, I better attack DK!
:4dk: lol get out-yomi'd, I shield-grab you and do a b-throw. And now I have my punch charged up lol.
:4mario: Double crap! I better play defensively so I don't get giant punched!
:4dk: lol get out-yomi'd, I grabbed you again.
:4mario: ********! Well, I'm not gonna fall for a grab this t--
:4dk: lol get out-yomi'd *giant punch*

Act 2

:4mario: Time to prove I'm the best!
:4palutena: I'm jumping on a platform to refresh my Super Speed!
:4mario: Crap, I better attack Palutena!
:4palutena: lol get out-yomi'd, I--
:4mario: What?
:4palutena: ...
:4mario: ...
:4palutena: ...
:4mario: Sorry, just, the way you were going with that, I thought you were gonna... I dunno, counter my attack or something.
:4palutena: I mean, I wanted to, but I can't.
:4mario: ...
:4palutena: Because I'm standing above you on a ****ing platform.
:4mario: ...so, I'm just gonna freely harass you with uairs and stuff until you come down, if that's cool.

Act 3

:4mario: Time to prove I'm the best!
You're not.

-fin-
 

Icare0

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Well, here are my Character Impressions up to now. The tiers are listed in no specific order, and I have no illusions about my ability to evaluate 50+ characters. Feel free to rip it apart and educate me whenever I'm wrong.

S Tier - The tier where everybody is Just Silly
:4lucario: - Double rage is horribly strong, and Snaring aura sphere is the perfect tool to set up kills. That most of the cast now have some trouble outright KO'ing and/or have to rely on gimping to take stocks only compounds this.
:rosalina:- The puppeteer. Huge disjoints, Luma absorbing projectiles and negating grabs, awesome camping with Speedy Star Bits, you know the drill by now.
:4sheik:- Sheik has everything. Awesome ground and aerial mobility, racks damage like there is no tomorrow, nice projectile, good recovery, awesome offstage, awesome neutral game, awesome edge guarding, best landing game os the cast, and all of this while being the safest characther in the game. Even her primary kill move is safe on shield.


A+ Tier - Aka Guys that would be S if those above didn't merit a tier of their own.
:4zss::4fox::4yoshi::4sonic::4littlemac::4palutena::4diddy:

A Tier - The tier for those who are pretty good, but not "Holy cow, they are great!"
:4robinm::4ness::4pikachu::4duckhunt::4jigglypuff::4villager::4marth::4falcon::4greninja:
:4miibrawl:- He has a 0 to death, easy to peform, grab combo that works against most of the cast. For those who were wondering, this is the his is the embodiment of The Silly. Also has pretty good specials, triple jump, a legit ledge game, nice combos, and solid normals to back it up. EDIT: Turns out you can DI out of the combo. Whoops. I tested it a bit and while you can get the instant kill on a good read even without the combo, it is as unreliable as Rest and not nearly as good as I thought. Still a very good characther.

B Tier - The guys that are just OK. They have some nice tools to work with.
:4darkpit::4pit::4rob::4falco::4tlink::4link::4lucina::4megaman::4samus::4shulk::4zelda::4wario:

Bruiser tier - They are not below the B Tier, I just don't have a better place to put them.
:4myfriends::4dk::4bowser::4dedede: - Time to make some people very angry, but IMO these guys are just bad designed. While they are pretty damn good, they, by design, need to outplay the opponent if they want to win, because otherwise they have too much lag to do anything. They live and breath through yomi. Whenever they get a read, almost no one has higher reward, and if you can consistently get reads and outplay, they are A+ Tier monsters that can kill VERY early. If you don't, they are B tier at best. The problem is that if you do get reads and outplay consistently, you probably would win with every other good characther anyway, with the added bonus that the other good characthers doesn't require that to win. They are NOT bad, but they require a lot more from the player to work.

C Tier - They have a few nasty flaws or are simply lackluster. Not completely horrible or ununsable, tho.
:4drmario::4mario::4luigi::4wiifit::4kirby::4ganondorf:

D Tier
:4olimar::4miisword:

??? Tier - I don't have enough experience/knowledge to confidently make an educated guess about these guys.
:4bowserjr::4peach::4gaw::4miigun::4pacman::4charizard:
 
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meleebrawler

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:4mario: Time to prove I'm the best!
You're not.

-fin-
This. Even at Eventhubs, Mario can't escape A2Z bashing.

A2Z, the reason Mario was good in Project M was because they
took all the best parts of Mario AND Doc.

Mario's damage is low in this game both to make
him more distinct from Doc, and because of the crazy
gimps he can cause.
 

Thinkaman

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:4miibrawl:- He has a 0 to death, easy to peform, grab combo that works against most of the cast.
There's like, 3 things false in this sentence.
  • It doesn't work on anyone, just Jigglypuff and barely Rosalina.
  • It also doesn't work much above 0%.
  • You have to read their DI out of the throw to land it.
  • ...and they can still always survive just by holding down.
A2Z, the reason Mario was good in Project M was because they
took all the best parts of Mario AND Doc.

Mario's damage is low in this game both to make
him more distinct from Doc, and because of the crazy
gimps he can cause.
You're talking about Mario again! You're falling for his trap!

This is how he gains his strength!

Oh no; I was part of his master plan all along!
 
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Icare0

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There's like, 3 things false in this sentence.
  • It doesn't work on anyone, just Jigglypuff and barely Rosalina.
  • It also doesn't work much above 0%.
Well, to quote Jigglymaster's thread:


Jigglypuff - D-throw at 0% Any stage

Rosalina (and everyone lighter) - U-throw on Ground Level of Yoshi's Island at 0%
- D-throw on Ground Level on Yoshi's Island at 30%
- D-throw on YI's Platform at 0%

Lucario (and everyone Lighter) - U-throw on YI's Platform at 0%
D-throw on YI's Platform at 50%

Shulk (and everyone Lighter) - U-throw on the Top Platform of BF, 0%

Bowser (and everyone Lighter) - U-throw on the Highest Platform on Prisim Tower, at 0%..
So it WORKS on characther other than rosalina, and works above 0%.

  • You have to read their DI out of the throw to land it.
  • ...and they can still always survive just by holding down.
Fair enough.
 

gameprodigy12

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Pretty sure I've read numerous posts in this very thread saying Luma isn't that much of a help nor really "hard" to use.
Hell watching Dabuz vs Nairo today just proved that to me even more. Luma dies like 4 times a minute anyways and only time Dabuz ever used it was for the custom move single star bit.
Again though Rosalina requires a lot of thinking and you always use luma, even if it doesn't involve luma shot.
 

Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir

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My opinion of the SSB3DS tier list.

Hello, my name is Shiny Mewtwo! Some of you may know me from my posts in the Super Smash Bros. Brawl Tier List discussion threads over the last few years. Thanks to the advice and support of my mentor, @JMF | pidgezero_one (formerly known as Xx_JiGgLyPuFf_DuDe_420_xX), I became a master of analyzing Smash Bros games and creating accurate and informative tier lists which appeal to the general population of competitive Smashers, eventually achieving a PhD in Smash Community Studies (my dissertation is located here http://smashboards.com/threads/official-bbr-tier-list-v7.321738/page-381#post-15393648 if any of you are interested). Now that the Brawl boards and their tier list threads have died, I’ve decided to focus my energies on the new game.

This tier list is based on my initial impressions from playing each character for only a brief period of time, and as such I'm not fully aware of some of the finer points or more technical abilities of some characters (For example, I've noticed recent Palutena discussion about her being really good thanks to some sort of advanced technique that I was not aware of. I have her at the bottom of my tier list, but maybe with more knowledge of what that technique does my opinion will change). The character traits I valued most are speed, ability to rack up damage, ability to easily land kills and ability to recover. I will provide in depth explanations for high tier characters, and shorter explanations for the rest of the cast. I did not take equipment or custom moves into account. I am not splitting the list into lettered tiers (i.e. A, B and C tiers), as at this point the metagame is too volatile to go beyond simple Top, High, Mid, Low and Bottom tiers. Without further ado, here is the tier list:

God Tier

1. Mewtwo – Mewtwo is the most powerful Pokemon in the Pokemon series (Arceus doesn’t count because God doesn’t exist). Sakurai and his team took that into account. Knowing that Mewtwo would be by far the most powerful character in Smash Bros 3DS, they delayed his release until the Spring in order to hinder his metagame development, putting it approximately 6 months behind the metagame of all other characters.

Top Tier

2. Sheik – Sheik is a fantastic character. Her movement speed and the speed of her attacks work extremely well together to allow her to easily raise her opponent’s damage very quickly. Her kill power, which was her only major flaw in the previous game, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, has been significantly buffed, in thanks to her new Down Special attack. Her recovery is also very safe.

3. Rosalina – Rosalina is unique in the sense that she outnumbers you, thanks to her companion, Luma. This gives her 2 distinct advantages in gameplay. First, she can control a much larger amount of the stage thanks to being able to position Luma away from her, and still be in control of what he does. Second, she can use Luma to protect herself from being grabbed, as even while Rosalina is grabbed she can still make Luma attack the opponent to save her. Luma also gives Rosalina great kill power. Rosalina doesn’t have to worry very much about camping, because she is able to simply absorb any projectile sent her way. Her recovery is also fantastic.

4. Bowser – Bowser has been a very bad Smash character for a long time. But in Super Smash Bros for 3DS that finally changes. Bowser now has much more speed than he had in other games, making it much easier to damage his opponent. He also retains his fantastic kill power, and his recovery is much better than it used to be and is no longer a major hindrance to the character. His heavy wait also allows him to survive much longer than any character will be surviving against him.

5. Diddy Kong – Diddy Kong remains an extremely good character following his appearance in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. His bananas were slightly nerfed, but are still extremely useful and his other attributes remain top tier as well. He moves link into each other well at low percent, and bananas are extremely good at setting up kills at high percent. His recovery is also fairly good as well.

6. King Dedede – Gordos. Gordos are a fantastic tool for D3, and the myriad of ways he can use him makes him an excellent character. That’s not all he has though, his recovery is very good, and he is also able to effectively rack up damage on his opponent through the use of tilts and throws. Smashes can also be an effective kill tool.

7. Greninja – Greninja is similar to Sheik, in that it is very good at using its speed to rack up damage. Its kill moves aren’t quite as good as Sheik’s are, but they are still very useful. Its recovery is excellent as well.

8. Duck Hunt – Duck Hunt is fantastic at racking up damage thanks to his extensive toolbox of projectiles. Duck Hunt may have a bit of trouble killing at times, but smart use of his projectiles can put the opponent in prime position to be hit by one of his strong aerials or smashes. His recovery is also very good.

9. Yoshi – Yoshi has excellent mobility and strong moves that link together well, making him very good at both racking up damage and killing. His Up B can also function well as a camping tool. His recovery is not as safe as other top tier characters (a simple footstool completely screws him over), but that does not hinder him too much as his stage control and aerial mobility makes it easy for him to avoid those situations.

High Tier

10. Lucina – Lucina is very fast, has very strong moves that are easy to land is very good at keeping her opponents away from her. Killing can be a tad difficult, as she doesn’t have a reliable way to set up kill moves, but her moves are fast enough that landing them raw shouldn’t be difficult. Her recovery is also good.

11. Robin – Robin is very strong at controlling space around him with Arcfire, and smart usage of the Levin Sword. Shkle is a bit slow in the air, which keeps shklim from being top tier. Landing kill moves shouldn’t be a problem, as the Levin Sword is very strong and regenerates quickly after breaking. Shkle also has the ability to heal shklerself with Nosferatu, which can be extraordinarily useful when used at the right times. Shkler recovery is also very good.

12. ROB – ROB is excellent at racking up damage, as it’s very easy for him to combo out of his throws. He controls space well, with a combination of lasers, gyro and his huge Nair. He also has good kill moves with his Smashes and Up Throw. His recovery is also fantastic.

13. Marth – Marth is a very similar character to Lucina. The thing that makes him worse than her is the higher precision needed to play Marth, as his sword is more powerful at the tip. 3DS controls limit the ability to space Marth’s attacks to their most effective range, making him worse than Lucina for now. However, the difference is not very large and the release of the Wii U version giving players more control options could very easily increase his spot on the tier list. I'm definitely not just putting Marth in high tier to appease @ Shaya Shaya . Not at all.

14. Captain Falcon – After a poor showing in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Captain Falcon returns to high tier to show his moves once more! Falcon is very good at racking up damage, with a great ability to follow up on his throws with multiple aerials, as well as a very strong Jab combo. His kill power is also very good, with the Knee of Justice and Raptor Boost both being capable of killing opponents very early, as well as his powerful Smash attacks. His recovery is able to cover a long distance, and the grab attack can catch careless opponents unawares.

15. Jigglypuff – Jigglypuff is unrivaled in the air, being able to manoeuvre in and out of her opponent’s attacks with ease. Her Bair is extremely good for both racking up damage and killing, and Rest is an omnipresent threat that can kill very early. Her recovery is one of the very best in the game, being able to return to the stage from almost any point.

16. Zero Suit Samus – Zero Suit Samus is very good at racking up damage, as she is able to set up guaranteed combos thanks to her paralyzer attacks (netural B, Down Smash). She is also good at killing with her strong Forward Smash and Aerials. Her recovery is also very good.

17. Lucario – The combination of Rage and Aura make Lucario a lethal threat at high percent. His recovery is also very good, meaning he will live for a long time as well. Lucario’s ability to kill the opponent while at high percent is completely unrivaled, although he is limited while he is at low percent, which hurts his tier position.

18. Sonic – Sonic’s speed is completely unrivaled, and this allows him to rack up damage better than almost every other character. However, his kill power, while better than it was in Brawl, is still a minor weakness. His recovery is also somewhat linear, though it is still very good.

19. Donkey Kong – Donkey Kong has loads of pure power. He is also fairly fast, making it easier for him to land hits than some other powerful characters, such as Ike and Ganondorf. His Side B is a very useful tool, as it almost completely breaks shields with just one hit. His down B spike in the air is also very strong, and can allow him to get some quick kills on recovering characters. His recovery is very strong horizontally, but mediocre vertically.

20. Pikachu – Pikachu is very fast and is able to rack up damage fairly quickly. His kill potential is somewhat limited, but his edgeguarding game is very strong and makes up for it easily. His recovery is also fantastic, among the best in the game.

Mid-Tier

21. Mario – Good ability to link moves together to rack up damage. Good kill power. Decent recovery

22. Dark Pit – Decent ability to link moves together. Decent kill power. Fantastic recovery

23. Metaknight – Decent ability to link moves together. Fairly good kill power. Great recovery

24. Wario – Good aerial mobility. Strong kill power. Fairly good recovery.

25. Villager – Effective stage control. Good anti-camping game. Somewhat struggles to kill. Great recovery.

26. Toon Link – Good camping game to rack up damage, hard to kill. Average recovery.

27. Wii Fit Trainer – Fast. Average recovery. Killing does not come easily

28. Luigi – Great at racking up damage. Solid kill power. Good recovery.

29. Olimar – Good stage control with Pikmin. Average recovery. Kill power depends on Pikmin, too random to be reliable.

30. Link – Decent camping game. Strong kill moves, but not easy to land. Mediocre recovery.

31. Falco – Landing lag on lasers limits camping game. Decent recovery. Decent at killing. Bair is amazing, other aerials not so much.

32. Fox – Lag on lasers makes camping ineffective. Decent at racking up damage and killing. Decent recovery.

33. Bowser Jr. – Decent stage control. FSmash very good for killing. Recovery is too linear and predictable.

34. Megaman – Solid camping game. Kills are hard to come by. Decent recovery.

35. Mr. Game and Watch – Decent at racking up damage. Decent at killing. Decent recovery.

36. Pit – Decent projectile, struggles to rack up damage. Struggles to kill. Fantastic recovery.

37. Dr. Mario – Decent camping game. Fairly good low percent combos. Decent at killing. Mediocre recovery.

38. Ness – Struggles racking up damage, decent at killing. Decent recovery

39. Shulk – Slow moves. Difficult to rack up damage. Good at killing. Mediocre recovery.

40. Peach – Unique pressure game with Float. Decent at killing. Poor at racking up damage. Great recovery.

41. Zelda – Mediocre at damaging and racking up damage. Decent defensive game. Decent recovery.

Low Tier

42. Kirby – Attacks do very little damage, very few kill moves. Decent recovery, but not as good as it should be for a character with so many jumps

43. Pac-Man – Powerful, but very little ability to link moves together and rack up damage. Recovery is predicable, making it mediocre at best. He avoids being lower because I like saying "Waka Waka Waka"

44. Ike – His strong moves are slow and hard to hit with, and his moves that are easy to hit with do little damage and have no kill power. Mediocre recovery. No friends in the game to fight for.

45. Samus – No kill power, too much lag on projectiles. Decent recovery but not good enough to make up for her flaws.

46. Charizard – Good kill power, but no way to reliably rack up damage. Kill moves are difficult to land. Mediocre recovery.

47. Mii Swordfighter – Decent speed on his moves, alright at racking up damage. Okay kill power. Horrible recovery.

48. Mii Gunner – Difficult to link moves together and rack up damage. Camp game weak for a projectile based character. Bad recovery.

49. Mii Brawler - Good at racking up damage. Kill moves are difficult to land. Horrible recovery.

Bottom Tier

50. Ganondorf – Very strong, but slow. Moves are hard to land. Poor recovery

51. Palutena – I have no ****ing clue what this character is trying to do. Everything about her seems extremely bad.

52. Little Mac – No recovery or aerial game. Little Mac is completely ignoring half of the game. There’s no way to win when you’re only playing half the game. Little Mac should really work on jumping.

Overall, I believe the game is very well balanced. The difference between the best characters and the worst characters is not nearly as large as it was in Melee and Brawl. I would compare this game more to Smash 64, where even bottom tier characters can be deadly tournament threats in the hands of a skilled player.

Remember, this tier list is based on my initial impressions from a brief period of time playing each character, not any sort of in depth analysis of the game. There are probably going to be some huge discrepancies with reality.

I hope you all enjoyed reading my Tier List. This was my 3000th post on Smashboards, and I put a lot of work into it, neglecting my schoolwork for much of the past 3 days. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have an essay (or 3) to write.
 

ChampKing

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
46
My opinion of the SSB3DS tier list.

Hello, my name is Shiny Mewtwo! Some of you may know me from my posts in the Super Smash Bros. Brawl Tier List discussion threads over the last few years. Thanks to the advice and support of my mentor, @JMF | pidgezero_one (formerly known as Xx_JiGgLyPuFf_DuDe_420_xX), I became a master of analyzing Smash Bros games and creating accurate and informative tier lists which appeal to the general population of competitive Smashers, eventually achieving a PhD in Smash Community Studies (my dissertation is located here http://smashboards.com/threads/official-bbr-tier-list-v7.321738/page-381#post-15393648 if any of you are interested). Now that the Brawl boards and their tier list threads have died, I’ve decided to focus my energies on the new game.

This tier list is based on my initial impressions from playing each character for only a brief period of time, and as such I'm not fully aware of some of the finer points or more technical abilities of some characters (For example, I've noticed recent Palutena discussion about her being really good thanks to some sort of advanced technique that I was not aware of. I have her at the bottom of my tier list, but maybe with more knowledge of what that technique does my opinion will change). The character traits I valued most are speed, ability to rack up damage, ability to easily land kills and ability to recover. I will provide in depth explanations for high tier characters, and shorter explanations for the rest of the cast. I did not take equipment or custom moves into account. I am not splitting the list into lettered tiers (i.e. A, B and C tiers), as at this point the metagame is too volatile to go beyond simple Top, High, Mid, Low and Bottom tiers. Without further ado, here is the tier list:

God Tier

1. Mewtwo – Mewtwo is the most powerful Pokemon in the Pokemon series (Arceus doesn’t count because God doesn’t exist). Sakurai and his team took that into account. Knowing that Mewtwo would be by far the most powerful character in Smash Bros 3DS, they delayed his release until the Spring in order to hinder his metagame development, putting it approximately 6 months behind the metagame of all other characters.

Top Tier

2. Sheik – Sheik is a fantastic character. Her movement speed and the speed of her attacks work extremely well together to allow her to easily raise her opponent’s damage very quickly. Her kill power, which was her only major flaw in the previous game, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, has been significantly buffed, in thanks to her new Down Special attack. Her recovery is also very safe.

3. Rosalina – Rosalina is unique in the sense that she outnumbers you, thanks to her companion, Luma. This gives her 2 distinct advantages in gameplay. First, she can control a much larger amount of the stage thanks to being able to position Luma away from her, and still be in control of what he does. Second, she can use Luma to protect herself from being grabbed, as even while Rosalina is grabbed she can still make Luma attack the opponent to save her. Luma also gives Rosalina great kill power. Rosalina doesn’t have to worry very much about camping, because she is able to simply absorb any projectile sent her way. Her recovery is also fantastic.

4. Bowser – Bowser has been a very bad Smash character for a long time. But in Super Smash Bros for 3DS that finally changes. Bowser now has much more speed than he had in other games, making it much easier to damage his opponent. He also retains his fantastic kill power, and his recovery is much better than it used to be and is no longer a major hindrance to the character. His heavy wait also allows him to survive much longer than any character will be surviving against him.

5. Diddy Kong – Diddy Kong remains an extremely good character following his appearance in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. His bananas were slightly nerfed, but are still extremely useful and his other attributes remain top tier as well. He moves link into each other well at low percent, and bananas are extremely good at setting up kills at high percent. His recovery is also fairly good as well.

6. King Dedede – Gordos. Gordos are a fantastic tool for D3, and the myriad of ways he can use him makes him an excellent character. That’s not all he has though, his recovery is very good, and he is also able to effectively rack up damage on his opponent through the use of tilts and throws. Smashes can also be an effective kill tool.

7. Greninja – Greninja is similar to Sheik, in that it is very good at using its speed to rack up damage. Its kill moves aren’t quite as good as Sheik’s are, but they are still very useful. Its recovery is excellent as well.

8. Duck Hunt – Duck Hunt is fantastic at racking up damage thanks to his extensive toolbox of projectiles. Duck Hunt may have a bit of trouble killing at times, but smart use of his projectiles can put the opponent in prime position to be hit by one of his strong aerials or smashes. His recovery is also very good.

9. Yoshi – Yoshi has excellent mobility and strong moves that link together well, making him very good at both racking up damage and killing. His Up B can also function well as a camping tool. His recovery is not as safe as other top tier characters (a simple footstool completely screws him over), but that does not hinder him too much as his stage control and aerial mobility makes it easy for him to avoid those situations.

High Tier

10. Lucina – Lucina is very fast, has very strong moves that are easy to land is very good at keeping her opponents away from her. Killing can be a tad difficult, as she doesn’t have a reliable way to set up kill moves, but her moves are fast enough that landing them raw shouldn’t be difficult. Her recovery is also good.

11. Robin – Robin is very strong at controlling space around him with Arcfire, and smart usage of the Levin Sword. Shkle is a bit slow in the air, which keeps shklim from being top tier. Landing kill moves shouldn’t be a problem, as the Levin Sword is very strong and regenerates quickly after breaking. Shkle also has the ability to heal shklerself with Nosferatu, which can be extraordinarily useful when used at the right times. Shkler recovery is also very good.

12. ROB – ROB is excellent at racking up damage, as it’s very easy for him to combo out of his throws. He controls space well, with a combination of lasers, gyro and his huge Nair. He also has good kill moves with his Smashes and Up Throw. His recovery is also fantastic.

13. Marth – Marth is a very similar character to Lucina. The thing that makes him worse than her is the higher precision needed to play Marth, as his sword is more powerful at the tip. 3DS controls limit the ability to space Marth’s attacks to their most effective range, making him worse than Lucina for now. However, the difference is not very large and the release of the Wii U version giving players more control options could very easily increase his spot on the tier list. I'm definitely not just putting Marth in high tier to appease @ Shaya Shaya . Not at all.

14. Captain Falcon – After a poor showing in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Captain Falcon returns to high tier to show his moves once more! Falcon is very good at racking up damage, with a great ability to follow up on his throws with multiple aerials, as well as a very strong Jab combo. His kill power is also very good, with the Knee of Justice and Raptor Boost both being capable of killing opponents very early, as well as his powerful Smash attacks. His recovery is able to cover a long distance, and the grab attack can catch careless opponents unawares.

15. Jigglypuff – Jigglypuff is unrivaled in the air, being able to manoeuvre in and out of her opponent’s attacks with ease. Her Bair is extremely good for both racking up damage and killing, and Rest is an omnipresent threat that can kill very early. Her recovery is one of the very best in the game, being able to return to the stage from almost any point.

16. Zero Suit Samus – Zero Suit Samus is very good at racking up damage, as she is able to set up guaranteed combos thanks to her paralyzer attacks (netural B, Down Smash). She is also good at killing with her strong Forward Smash and Aerials. Her recovery is also very good.

17. Lucario – The combination of Rage and Aura make Lucario a lethal threat at high percent. His recovery is also very good, meaning he will live for a long time as well. Lucario’s ability to kill the opponent while at high percent is completely unrivaled, although he is limited while he is at low percent, which hurts his tier position.

18. Sonic – Sonic’s speed is completely unrivaled, and this allows him to rack up damage better than almost every other character. However, his kill power, while better than it was in Brawl, is still a minor weakness. His recovery is also somewhat linear, though it is still very good.

19. Donkey Kong – Donkey Kong has loads of pure power. He is also fairly fast, making it easier for him to land hits than some other powerful characters, such as Ike and Ganondorf. His Side B is a very useful tool, as it almost completely breaks shields with just one hit. His down B spike in the air is also very strong, and can allow him to get some quick kills on recovering characters. His recovery is very strong horizontally, but mediocre vertically.

20. Pikachu – Pikachu is very fast and is able to rack up damage fairly quickly. His kill potential is somewhat limited, but his edgeguarding game is very strong and makes up for it easily. His recovery is also fantastic, among the best in the game.

Mid-Tier

21. Mario – Good ability to link moves together to rack up damage. Good kill power. Decent recovery

22. Dark Pit – Decent ability to link moves together. Decent kill power. Fantastic recovery

23. Metaknight – Decent ability to link moves together. Fairly good kill power. Great recovery

24. Wario – Good aerial mobility. Strong kill power. Fairly good recovery.

25. Villager – Effective stage control. Good anti-camping game. Somewhat struggles to kill. Great recovery.

26. Toon Link – Good camping game to rack up damage, hard to kill. Average recovery.

27. Wii Fit Trainer – Fast. Average recovery. Killing does not come easily

28. Luigi – Great at racking up damage. Solid kill power. Good recovery.

29. Olimar – Good stage control with Pikmin. Average recovery. Kill power depends on Pikmin, too random to be reliable.

30. Link – Decent camping game. Strong kill moves, but not easy to land. Mediocre recovery.

31. Falco – Landing lag on lasers limits camping game. Decent recovery. Decent at killing. Bair is amazing, other aerials not so much.

32. Fox – Lag on lasers makes camping ineffective. Decent at racking up damage and killing. Decent recovery.

33. Bowser Jr. – Decent stage control. FSmash very good for killing. Recovery is too linear and predictable.

34. Megaman – Solid camping game. Kills are hard to come by. Decent recovery.

35. Mr. Game and Watch – Decent at racking up damage. Decent at killing. Decent recovery.

36. Pit – Decent projectile, struggles to rack up damage. Struggles to kill. Fantastic recovery.

37. Dr. Mario – Decent camping game. Fairly good low percent combos. Decent at killing. Mediocre recovery.

38. Ness – Struggles racking up damage, decent at killing. Decent recovery

39. Shulk – Slow moves. Difficult to rack up damage. Good at killing. Mediocre recovery.

40. Peach – Unique pressure game with Float. Decent at killing. Poor at racking up damage. Great recovery.

41. Zelda – Mediocre at damaging and racking up damage. Decent defensive game. Decent recovery.

Low Tier

42. Kirby – Attacks do very little damage, very few kill moves. Decent recovery, but not as good as it should be for a character with so many jumps

43. Pac-Man – Powerful, but very little ability to link moves together and rack up damage. Recovery is predicable, making it mediocre at best. He avoids being lower because I like saying "Waka Waka Waka"

44. Ike – His strong moves are slow and hard to hit with, and his moves that are easy to hit with do little damage and have no kill power. Mediocre recovery. No friends in the game to fight for.

45. Samus – No kill power, too much lag on projectiles. Decent recovery but not good enough to make up for her flaws.

46. Charizard – Good kill power, but no way to reliably rack up damage. Kill moves are difficult to land. Mediocre recovery.

47. Mii Swordfighter – Decent speed on his moves, alright at racking up damage. Okay kill power. Horrible recovery.

48. Mii Gunner – Difficult to link moves together and rack up damage. Camp game weak for a projectile based character. Bad recovery.

49. Mii Brawler - Good at racking up damage. Kill moves are difficult to land. Horrible recovery.

Bottom Tier

50. Ganondorf – Very strong, but slow. Moves are hard to land. Poor recovery

51. Palutena – I have no ****ing clue what this character is trying to do. Everything about her seems extremely bad.

52. Little Mac – No recovery or aerial game. Little Mac is completely ignoring half of the game. There’s no way to win when you’re only playing half the game. Little Mac should really work on jumping.

Overall, I believe the game is very well balanced. The difference between the best characters and the worst characters is not nearly as large as it was in Melee and Brawl. I would compare this game more to Smash 64, where even bottom tier characters can be deadly tournament threats in the hands of a skilled player.

Remember, this tier list is based on my initial impressions from a brief period of time playing each character, not any sort of in depth analysis of the game. There are probably going to be some huge discrepancies with reality.

I hope you all enjoyed reading my Tier List. This was my 3000th post on Smashboards, and I put a lot of work into it, neglecting my schoolwork for much of the past 3 days. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have an essay (or 3) to write.
That has got to be the most laughable list I've seen. Just lol.
 

Hippieslayer

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
951
Location
Azeroth
What did you smoke when you wrote that list? I can't even finish reading it. Bowser at 4. I mean you can't just list the good stuff about Bowser, you have to consider the bad stuff as well. Same with DDD. Other than that it just seems completely random.

You don't really provide any motivation, you just list a bunch of pro's. I mean if you're gonna post a list like this one your motivations should take the current debate into consideration, it's like you wrote it in a vacuum. This would be reasonable if it was posted during the first 2 weeks but now it just ignores a ton of stuff that has been said since.
 

TTTTTsd

Gordeau Main Paint Drinker
Joined
Sep 29, 2013
Messages
3,999
Location
Canada, where it's really cold
NNID
InverseTangent
For the record I agree with Dr. Mario's placement on that list, for all it's worth. Not the chars below or above, but I see him comfortably sitting in mid-low/low tiers.
 
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Pazzo.

「Livin' On A Prayer」
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
9,187
My opinion of the SSB3DS tier list.

Hello, my name is Shiny Mewtwo! Some of you may know me from my posts in the Super Smash Bros. Brawl Tier List discussion threads over the last few years. Thanks to the advice and support of my mentor, @JMF | pidgezero_one (formerly known as Xx_JiGgLyPuFf_DuDe_420_xX), I became a master of analyzing Smash Bros games and creating accurate and informative tier lists which appeal to the general population of competitive Smashers, eventually achieving a PhD in Smash Community Studies (my dissertation is located here http://smashboards.com/threads/official-bbr-tier-list-v7.321738/page-381#post-15393648 if any of you are interested). Now that the Brawl boards and their tier list threads have died, I’ve decided to focus my energies on the new game.

This tier list is based on my initial impressions from playing each character for only a brief period of time, and as such I'm not fully aware of some of the finer points or more technical abilities of some characters (For example, I've noticed recent Palutena discussion about her being really good thanks to some sort of advanced technique that I was not aware of. I have her at the bottom of my tier list, but maybe with more knowledge of what that technique does my opinion will change). The character traits I valued most are speed, ability to rack up damage, ability to easily land kills and ability to recover. I will provide in depth explanations for high tier characters, and shorter explanations for the rest of the cast. I did not take equipment or custom moves into account. I am not splitting the list into lettered tiers (i.e. A, B and C tiers), as at this point the metagame is too volatile to go beyond simple Top, High, Mid, Low and Bottom tiers. Without further ado, here is the tier list:

God Tier

1. Mewtwo – Mewtwo is the most powerful Pokemon in the Pokemon series (Arceus doesn’t count because God doesn’t exist). Sakurai and his team took that into account. Knowing that Mewtwo would be by far the most powerful character in Smash Bros 3DS, they delayed his release until the Spring in order to hinder his metagame development, putting it approximately 6 months behind the metagame of all other characters.

Top Tier

2. Sheik – Sheik is a fantastic character. Her movement speed and the speed of her attacks work extremely well together to allow her to easily raise her opponent’s damage very quickly. Her kill power, which was her only major flaw in the previous game, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, has been significantly buffed, in thanks to her new Down Special attack. Her recovery is also very safe.

3. Rosalina – Rosalina is unique in the sense that she outnumbers you, thanks to her companion, Luma. This gives her 2 distinct advantages in gameplay. First, she can control a much larger amount of the stage thanks to being able to position Luma away from her, and still be in control of what he does. Second, she can use Luma to protect herself from being grabbed, as even while Rosalina is grabbed she can still make Luma attack the opponent to save her. Luma also gives Rosalina great kill power. Rosalina doesn’t have to worry very much about camping, because she is able to simply absorb any projectile sent her way. Her recovery is also fantastic.

4. Bowser – Bowser has been a very bad Smash character for a long time. But in Super Smash Bros for 3DS that finally changes. Bowser now has much more speed than he had in other games, making it much easier to damage his opponent. He also retains his fantastic kill power, and his recovery is much better than it used to be and is no longer a major hindrance to the character. His heavy wait also allows him to survive much longer than any character will be surviving against him.

5. Diddy Kong – Diddy Kong remains an extremely good character following his appearance in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. His bananas were slightly nerfed, but are still extremely useful and his other attributes remain top tier as well. He moves link into each other well at low percent, and bananas are extremely good at setting up kills at high percent. His recovery is also fairly good as well.

6. King Dedede – Gordos. Gordos are a fantastic tool for D3, and the myriad of ways he can use him makes him an excellent character. That’s not all he has though, his recovery is very good, and he is also able to effectively rack up damage on his opponent through the use of tilts and throws. Smashes can also be an effective kill tool.

7. Greninja – Greninja is similar to Sheik, in that it is very good at using its speed to rack up damage. Its kill moves aren’t quite as good as Sheik’s are, but they are still very useful. Its recovery is excellent as well.

8. Duck Hunt – Duck Hunt is fantastic at racking up damage thanks to his extensive toolbox of projectiles. Duck Hunt may have a bit of trouble killing at times, but smart use of his projectiles can put the opponent in prime position to be hit by one of his strong aerials or smashes. His recovery is also very good.

9. Yoshi – Yoshi has excellent mobility and strong moves that link together well, making him very good at both racking up damage and killing. His Up B can also function well as a camping tool. His recovery is not as safe as other top tier characters (a simple footstool completely screws him over), but that does not hinder him too much as his stage control and aerial mobility makes it easy for him to avoid those situations.

High Tier

10. Lucina – Lucina is very fast, has very strong moves that are easy to land is very good at keeping her opponents away from her. Killing can be a tad difficult, as she doesn’t have a reliable way to set up kill moves, but her moves are fast enough that landing them raw shouldn’t be difficult. Her recovery is also good.

11. Robin – Robin is very strong at controlling space around him with Arcfire, and smart usage of the Levin Sword. Shkle is a bit slow in the air, which keeps shklim from being top tier. Landing kill moves shouldn’t be a problem, as the Levin Sword is very strong and regenerates quickly after breaking. Shkle also has the ability to heal shklerself with Nosferatu, which can be extraordinarily useful when used at the right times. Shkler recovery is also very good.

12. ROB – ROB is excellent at racking up damage, as it’s very easy for him to combo out of his throws. He controls space well, with a combination of lasers, gyro and his huge Nair. He also has good kill moves with his Smashes and Up Throw. His recovery is also fantastic.

13. Marth – Marth is a very similar character to Lucina. The thing that makes him worse than her is the higher precision needed to play Marth, as his sword is more powerful at the tip. 3DS controls limit the ability to space Marth’s attacks to their most effective range, making him worse than Lucina for now. However, the difference is not very large and the release of the Wii U version giving players more control options could very easily increase his spot on the tier list. I'm definitely not just putting Marth in high tier to appease @ Shaya Shaya . Not at all.

14. Captain Falcon – After a poor showing in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Captain Falcon returns to high tier to show his moves once more! Falcon is very good at racking up damage, with a great ability to follow up on his throws with multiple aerials, as well as a very strong Jab combo. His kill power is also very good, with the Knee of Justice and Raptor Boost both being capable of killing opponents very early, as well as his powerful Smash attacks. His recovery is able to cover a long distance, and the grab attack can catch careless opponents unawares.

15. Jigglypuff – Jigglypuff is unrivaled in the air, being able to manoeuvre in and out of her opponent’s attacks with ease. Her Bair is extremely good for both racking up damage and killing, and Rest is an omnipresent threat that can kill very early. Her recovery is one of the very best in the game, being able to return to the stage from almost any point.

16. Zero Suit Samus – Zero Suit Samus is very good at racking up damage, as she is able to set up guaranteed combos thanks to her paralyzer attacks (netural B, Down Smash). She is also good at killing with her strong Forward Smash and Aerials. Her recovery is also very good.

17. Lucario – The combination of Rage and Aura make Lucario a lethal threat at high percent. His recovery is also very good, meaning he will live for a long time as well. Lucario’s ability to kill the opponent while at high percent is completely unrivaled, although he is limited while he is at low percent, which hurts his tier position.

18. Sonic – Sonic’s speed is completely unrivaled, and this allows him to rack up damage better than almost every other character. However, his kill power, while better than it was in Brawl, is still a minor weakness. His recovery is also somewhat linear, though it is still very good.

19. Donkey Kong – Donkey Kong has loads of pure power. He is also fairly fast, making it easier for him to land hits than some other powerful characters, such as Ike and Ganondorf. His Side B is a very useful tool, as it almost completely breaks shields with just one hit. His down B spike in the air is also very strong, and can allow him to get some quick kills on recovering characters. His recovery is very strong horizontally, but mediocre vertically.

20. Pikachu – Pikachu is very fast and is able to rack up damage fairly quickly. His kill potential is somewhat limited, but his edgeguarding game is very strong and makes up for it easily. His recovery is also fantastic, among the best in the game.

Mid-Tier

21. Mario – Good ability to link moves together to rack up damage. Good kill power. Decent recovery

22. Dark Pit – Decent ability to link moves together. Decent kill power. Fantastic recovery

23. Metaknight – Decent ability to link moves together. Fairly good kill power. Great recovery

24. Wario – Good aerial mobility. Strong kill power. Fairly good recovery.

25. Villager – Effective stage control. Good anti-camping game. Somewhat struggles to kill. Great recovery.

26. Toon Link – Good camping game to rack up damage, hard to kill. Average recovery.

27. Wii Fit Trainer – Fast. Average recovery. Killing does not come easily

28. Luigi – Great at racking up damage. Solid kill power. Good recovery.

29. Olimar – Good stage control with Pikmin. Average recovery. Kill power depends on Pikmin, too random to be reliable.

30. Link – Decent camping game. Strong kill moves, but not easy to land. Mediocre recovery.

31. Falco – Landing lag on lasers limits camping game. Decent recovery. Decent at killing. Bair is amazing, other aerials not so much.

32. Fox – Lag on lasers makes camping ineffective. Decent at racking up damage and killing. Decent recovery.

33. Bowser Jr. – Decent stage control. FSmash very good for killing. Recovery is too linear and predictable.

34. Megaman – Solid camping game. Kills are hard to come by. Decent recovery.

35. Mr. Game and Watch – Decent at racking up damage. Decent at killing. Decent recovery.

36. Pit – Decent projectile, struggles to rack up damage. Struggles to kill. Fantastic recovery.

37. Dr. Mario – Decent camping game. Fairly good low percent combos. Decent at killing. Mediocre recovery.

38. Ness – Struggles racking up damage, decent at killing. Decent recovery

39. Shulk – Slow moves. Difficult to rack up damage. Good at killing. Mediocre recovery.

40. Peach – Unique pressure game with Float. Decent at killing. Poor at racking up damage. Great recovery.

41. Zelda – Mediocre at damaging and racking up damage. Decent defensive game. Decent recovery.

Low Tier

42. Kirby – Attacks do very little damage, very few kill moves. Decent recovery, but not as good as it should be for a character with so many jumps

43. Pac-Man – Powerful, but very little ability to link moves together and rack up damage. Recovery is predicable, making it mediocre at best. He avoids being lower because I like saying "Waka Waka Waka"

44. Ike – His strong moves are slow and hard to hit with, and his moves that are easy to hit with do little damage and have no kill power. Mediocre recovery. No friends in the game to fight for.

45. Samus – No kill power, too much lag on projectiles. Decent recovery but not good enough to make up for her flaws.

46. Charizard – Good kill power, but no way to reliably rack up damage. Kill moves are difficult to land. Mediocre recovery.

47. Mii Swordfighter – Decent speed on his moves, alright at racking up damage. Okay kill power. Horrible recovery.

48. Mii Gunner – Difficult to link moves together and rack up damage. Camp game weak for a projectile based character. Bad recovery.

49. Mii Brawler - Good at racking up damage. Kill moves are difficult to land. Horrible recovery.

Bottom Tier

50. Ganondorf – Very strong, but slow. Moves are hard to land. Poor recovery

51. Palutena – I have no ****ing clue what this character is trying to do. Everything about her seems extremely bad.

52. Little Mac – No recovery or aerial game. Little Mac is completely ignoring half of the game. There’s no way to win when you’re only playing half the game. Little Mac should really work on jumping.

Overall, I believe the game is very well balanced. The difference between the best characters and the worst characters is not nearly as large as it was in Melee and Brawl. I would compare this game more to Smash 64, where even bottom tier characters can be deadly tournament threats in the hands of a skilled player.

Remember, this tier list is based on my initial impressions from a brief period of time playing each character, not any sort of in depth analysis of the game. There are probably going to be some huge discrepancies with reality.

I hope you all enjoyed reading my Tier List. This was my 3000th post on Smashboards, and I put a lot of work into it, neglecting my schoolwork for much of the past 3 days. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have an essay (or 3) to write.
Not only do I have a problem with your 'God doesn't exist' statement (that's irrelevant it this case anyway), the fact that you've had little to no time with those characters is proof enough that making a tier list is a colossal waste of time, and a gross misuse of your mental ability.

Give the game time people.

EDIT: In other words: Save your mental ability. We're going to need it.
 
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TheMagicalKuja

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 25, 2001
Messages
2,079
Location
I'm not telling you psychos
3DS FC
2020-0988-7919
I wouldn't be surprised if there's some bull **** super speed tech that can be pulled off that lets you glide right over a platform that you cancel and then while still gliding perform platform drop light weight all the while yelling "YOU'RE TOO SLOW" to your opponent across the table.
My avatar had no idea just how prophetic it was.
 

Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir

PhD; Smash Community Studies
Premium
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
3,263
Location
Ontario, Canada
3DS FC
2191-7691-7941
That has got to be the most laughable list I've seen. Just lol.
If it made you laugh then mission accomplished! Humour is always my #1 goal online ^_^

What did you smoke when you wrote that list?
If you read the conclusion I wrote, you'll see that I was smoking a healthy amount of procastination :p

Not only do I have a problem with your 'God doesn't exist' statement (that's irrelevant it this case anyway), the fact that you've had little to no time with those characters is proof enough that making a tier list is a colossal waste of time, and a gross misuse of your mental ability.
This is the best response I could have hoped for. First of all, I don't actually believe that God doesn't exist (I do believe that there's no way to prove the existence of any sort of "God" but that's not relevant, like you said). I just thought it would be a funny way of justifying Mewtwo as the best Pokemon in those games. Second, the phrase "gross misuse of your mental ability" tells me that you're actually acknowledging that I have some intelligence, immediately after posting something that you find extremely stupid. You are a rare type of person on the internet. Thank you for being like that :D

Does anybody have any specific comments about my impressions of the characters? That is what this thread is for, after all, and I'd like to get back on topic.
 

Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir

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I call Poe's Law on this. There is NO WAY this is not a well disguised parody. The fact that he took the time to evaluate a character that isn't even released yet and ranked him 1st is just too much.
It's clear from your join date that you wouldn't be familiar with my posts in the Brawl tier list thread. I always put Mewtwo at the top of every tier list I do because he is my favourite Video Game Character ever. That doesn't mean that my entire post can be discounted.

It was an obvious parody post friends. Don't get too caught up #_#
Also this. This is true.
 
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Man Peach is so good

In Brawl I thought all she needed was a few adjustments to be very good and she really did get them. Not having to rely on fair to build damage has really helped her out in ways I just can't explain, and the inability to airdodge hitstun makes her off-stage game incredibly deadly... back throw to fair is one of the scariest traps offstage in the game and it kills heavies early even from the center of the stage. Also, her early percent combo game may have taken a hit but she still gets dair to fair or anyting for a clean, easy 40%+potential followup.

She doesn't have the greatest mobility, so she might get walled out by certain characters if she gets too far behind. But in most cases it doesn't matter if she's at a 100% deficit or not because her pressure still has to be respected.

It's a bold claim but I really do think peach is a top tier quality character. Her pressure, kill power, damage, and hitbox size (priority) rival almost any character. Fair itself does 15% damage and beats like anything.
 
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Pazzo.

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This is the best response I could have hoped for. First of all, I don't actually believe that God doesn't exist (I do believe that there's no way to prove the existence of any sort of "God" but that's not relevant, like you said). I just thought it would be a funny way of justifying Mewtwo as the best Pokemon in those games. Second, the phrase "gross misuse of your mental ability" tells me that you're actually acknowledging that I have some intelligence, immediately after posting something that you find extremely stupid. You are a rare type of person on the internet. Thank you for being like that :D

Does anybody have any specific comments about my impressions of the characters? That is what this thread is for, after all, and I'd like to get back on topic.
Thank you for not flying off the handle when I criticized your work. Too many sensitive people these days...

Oh, and characters! From just a few with whom I've had experience with:

Ness - Both PK Fire and F-Air are great approaching tools, and you can get a free 20+% from landing PK Fire into Down Grab, followed up by airels. Better at racking up damage than you'd think.

Ganondorf - Playing offensively with 'dorf will get you K.Oed fast. Defensively, he doesn't need to land a huge string of moves to be effective, like faster characters. Not saying he's top tier, but better than people give him credit for.

King Dedede - Because they can be reflected, Gordos are not a good approaching tool. Rather, they're an extension of K3D's mid-range. Throwing them out all willy-nilly has given me many an embarrassing K.O.
 

Icare0

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It's clear from your join date that you wouldn't be familiar with my posts in the Brawl tier list thread. I always put Mewtwo at the top of every tier list I do because he is my favourite Video Game Character ever. That doesn't mean that my entire post can be discounted.


Also this. This is true.
I acually have lurked around here for a LONG time, but never had a reason to post anything until very recently. But yes, I'm not familiar with your posts, mostly because I suck at remembering people.
 

Conda

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Can we make another thread for made up tier lists? They aren't useful for discussion here (other than "i disagree with that tier list") and derail interesting and informative discussion. Anyone can literally post a tier list and the discussion flips to that immediately.

We can talk about the cast without adding the tabloid element of "here's my tier list, rate it."
 
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Road Death Wheel

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so i guess my last page bowser comment went over peoples head?
can i just get a fight so can show ya what im talkin about?
 

Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir

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Thank you for not flying off the handle when I criticized your work. Too many sensitive people these days...

Oh, and characters! From just a few with whom I've had experience with:

Ness - Both PK Fire and F-Air are great approaching tools, and you can get a free 20+% from landing PK Fire into Down Grab, followed up by airels. Better at racking up damage than you'd think.

Ganondorf - Playing offensively with 'dorf will get you K.Oed fast. Defensively, he doesn't need to land a huge string of moves to be effective, like faster characters. Not saying he's top tier, but better than people give him credit for.

King Dedede - Because they can be reflected, Gordos are not a good approaching tool. Rather, they're an extension of K3D's mid-range. Throwing them out all willy-nilly has given me many an embarrassing K.O.
Those are some interesting ideas, gives me a lot to think about. Haven't really seen much Ness play, so I can't really comment on the practicality of what you wrote, but in theory it makes sense.

I mained Ganon in Melee, so everything bad about him in Brawl/Smash 4 feels magnified for me.

I've seen some King Dedede players do some really interesting stuff with Gordos. At Fight Pitt V last weekend, tehre was a D3 who was using Yoshi's Island in a really interesting way to make the Gordos bounce around very erratically. I found it very creative. Unfortunately I can't find the videos right now :(
 

Road Death Wheel

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Those are some interesting ideas, gives me a lot to think about. Haven't really seen much Ness play, so I can't really comment on the practicality of what you wrote, but in theory it makes sense.

I mained Ganon in Melee, so everything bad about him in Brawl/Smash 4 feels magnified for me.

I've seen some King Dedede players do some really interesting stuff with Gordos. At Fight Pitt V last weekend, tehre was a D3 who was using Yoshi's Island in a really interesting way to make the Gordos bounce around very erratically. I found it very creative. Unfortunately I can't find the videos right now :(
understandable in melee but ganon is a punish character this time. not offensive.
more so since hes sporting the deadliest f tilt out of shield in the game.
 

KenMeister

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A character's strength/viability is in a round about way a measure of how many options a character has, before how potent those options are.
An AT rarely benefits a character by so much that that singular thing propels them into the upper echelons, it gives them more options or makes other options more potent. An AT available on only one character turns their 100 options into 101 options, unless that 101st option is balls-to-the-walls amazing, everyone else still has 100 options too.

In the case of fox trots or roll cancelled grabs, every character gets to use them, everyone gets their 101st option. Perhaps its potency on a character is a lot more than others, but majority of the time these rarely make them considerably stronger.
That is 100% understandable. Look at all the AT's Link had in Brawl, yet they did nothing to propel him out of bottom tier. lol
 

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My opinion of the SSB3DS tier list.

Hello, my name is Shiny Mewtwo! Some of you may know me from my posts in the Super Smash Bros. Brawl Tier List discussion threads over the last few years. Thanks to the advice and support of my mentor, @JMF | pidgezero_one (formerly known as Xx_JiGgLyPuFf_DuDe_420_xX), I became a master of analyzing Smash Bros games and creating accurate and informative tier lists which appeal to the general population of competitive Smashers, eventually achieving a PhD in Smash Community Studies (my dissertation is located here http://smashboards.com/threads/official-bbr-tier-list-v7.321738/page-381#post-15393648 if any of you are interested). Now that the Brawl boards and their tier list threads have died, I’ve decided to focus my energies on the new game.

This tier list is based on my initial impressions from playing each character for only a brief period of time, and as such I'm not fully aware of some of the finer points or more technical abilities of some characters (For example, I've noticed recent Palutena discussion about her being really good thanks to some sort of advanced technique that I was not aware of. I have her at the bottom of my tier list, but maybe with more knowledge of what that technique does my opinion will change). The character traits I valued most are speed, ability to rack up damage, ability to easily land kills and ability to recover. I will provide in depth explanations for high tier characters, and shorter explanations for the rest of the cast. I did not take equipment or custom moves into account. I am not splitting the list into lettered tiers (i.e. A, B and C tiers), as at this point the metagame is too volatile to go beyond simple Top, High, Mid, Low and Bottom tiers. Without further ado, here is the tier list:

God Tier

1. Mewtwo – Mewtwo is the most powerful Pokemon in the Pokemon series (Arceus doesn’t count because God doesn’t exist). Sakurai and his team took that into account. Knowing that Mewtwo would be by far the most powerful character in Smash Bros 3DS, they delayed his release until the Spring in order to hinder his metagame development, putting it approximately 6 months behind the metagame of all other characters.

Top Tier

2. Sheik – Sheik is a fantastic character. Her movement speed and the speed of her attacks work extremely well together to allow her to easily raise her opponent’s damage very quickly. Her kill power, which was her only major flaw in the previous game, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, has been significantly buffed, in thanks to her new Down Special attack. Her recovery is also very safe.

3. Rosalina – Rosalina is unique in the sense that she outnumbers you, thanks to her companion, Luma. This gives her 2 distinct advantages in gameplay. First, she can control a much larger amount of the stage thanks to being able to position Luma away from her, and still be in control of what he does. Second, she can use Luma to protect herself from being grabbed, as even while Rosalina is grabbed she can still make Luma attack the opponent to save her. Luma also gives Rosalina great kill power. Rosalina doesn’t have to worry very much about camping, because she is able to simply absorb any projectile sent her way. Her recovery is also fantastic.

4. Bowser – Bowser has been a very bad Smash character for a long time. But in Super Smash Bros for 3DS that finally changes. Bowser now has much more speed than he had in other games, making it much easier to damage his opponent. He also retains his fantastic kill power, and his recovery is much better than it used to be and is no longer a major hindrance to the character. His heavy wait also allows him to survive much longer than any character will be surviving against him.

5. Diddy Kong – Diddy Kong remains an extremely good character following his appearance in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. His bananas were slightly nerfed, but are still extremely useful and his other attributes remain top tier as well. He moves link into each other well at low percent, and bananas are extremely good at setting up kills at high percent. His recovery is also fairly good as well.

6. King Dedede – Gordos. Gordos are a fantastic tool for D3, and the myriad of ways he can use him makes him an excellent character. That’s not all he has though, his recovery is very good, and he is also able to effectively rack up damage on his opponent through the use of tilts and throws. Smashes can also be an effective kill tool.

7. Greninja – Greninja is similar to Sheik, in that it is very good at using its speed to rack up damage. Its kill moves aren’t quite as good as Sheik’s are, but they are still very useful. Its recovery is excellent as well.

8. Duck Hunt – Duck Hunt is fantastic at racking up damage thanks to his extensive toolbox of projectiles. Duck Hunt may have a bit of trouble killing at times, but smart use of his projectiles can put the opponent in prime position to be hit by one of his strong aerials or smashes. His recovery is also very good.

9. Yoshi – Yoshi has excellent mobility and strong moves that link together well, making him very good at both racking up damage and killing. His Up B can also function well as a camping tool. His recovery is not as safe as other top tier characters (a simple footstool completely screws him over), but that does not hinder him too much as his stage control and aerial mobility makes it easy for him to avoid those situations.

High Tier

10. Lucina – Lucina is very fast, has very strong moves that are easy to land is very good at keeping her opponents away from her. Killing can be a tad difficult, as she doesn’t have a reliable way to set up kill moves, but her moves are fast enough that landing them raw shouldn’t be difficult. Her recovery is also good.

11. Robin – Robin is very strong at controlling space around him with Arcfire, and smart usage of the Levin Sword. Shkle is a bit slow in the air, which keeps shklim from being top tier. Landing kill moves shouldn’t be a problem, as the Levin Sword is very strong and regenerates quickly after breaking. Shkle also has the ability to heal shklerself with Nosferatu, which can be extraordinarily useful when used at the right times. Shkler recovery is also very good.

12. ROB – ROB is excellent at racking up damage, as it’s very easy for him to combo out of his throws. He controls space well, with a combination of lasers, gyro and his huge Nair. He also has good kill moves with his Smashes and Up Throw. His recovery is also fantastic.

13. Marth – Marth is a very similar character to Lucina. The thing that makes him worse than her is the higher precision needed to play Marth, as his sword is more powerful at the tip. 3DS controls limit the ability to space Marth’s attacks to their most effective range, making him worse than Lucina for now. However, the difference is not very large and the release of the Wii U version giving players more control options could very easily increase his spot on the tier list. I'm definitely not just putting Marth in high tier to appease @ Shaya Shaya . Not at all.

14. Captain Falcon – After a poor showing in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Captain Falcon returns to high tier to show his moves once more! Falcon is very good at racking up damage, with a great ability to follow up on his throws with multiple aerials, as well as a very strong Jab combo. His kill power is also very good, with the Knee of Justice and Raptor Boost both being capable of killing opponents very early, as well as his powerful Smash attacks. His recovery is able to cover a long distance, and the grab attack can catch careless opponents unawares.

15. Jigglypuff – Jigglypuff is unrivaled in the air, being able to manoeuvre in and out of her opponent’s attacks with ease. Her Bair is extremely good for both racking up damage and killing, and Rest is an omnipresent threat that can kill very early. Her recovery is one of the very best in the game, being able to return to the stage from almost any point.

16. Zero Suit Samus – Zero Suit Samus is very good at racking up damage, as she is able to set up guaranteed combos thanks to her paralyzer attacks (netural B, Down Smash). She is also good at killing with her strong Forward Smash and Aerials. Her recovery is also very good.

17. Lucario – The combination of Rage and Aura make Lucario a lethal threat at high percent. His recovery is also very good, meaning he will live for a long time as well. Lucario’s ability to kill the opponent while at high percent is completely unrivaled, although he is limited while he is at low percent, which hurts his tier position.

18. Sonic – Sonic’s speed is completely unrivaled, and this allows him to rack up damage better than almost every other character. However, his kill power, while better than it was in Brawl, is still a minor weakness. His recovery is also somewhat linear, though it is still very good.

19. Donkey Kong – Donkey Kong has loads of pure power. He is also fairly fast, making it easier for him to land hits than some other powerful characters, such as Ike and Ganondorf. His Side B is a very useful tool, as it almost completely breaks shields with just one hit. His down B spike in the air is also very strong, and can allow him to get some quick kills on recovering characters. His recovery is very strong horizontally, but mediocre vertically.

20. Pikachu – Pikachu is very fast and is able to rack up damage fairly quickly. His kill potential is somewhat limited, but his edgeguarding game is very strong and makes up for it easily. His recovery is also fantastic, among the best in the game.

Mid-Tier

21. Mario – Good ability to link moves together to rack up damage. Good kill power. Decent recovery

22. Dark Pit – Decent ability to link moves together. Decent kill power. Fantastic recovery

23. Metaknight – Decent ability to link moves together. Fairly good kill power. Great recovery

24. Wario – Good aerial mobility. Strong kill power. Fairly good recovery.

25. Villager – Effective stage control. Good anti-camping game. Somewhat struggles to kill. Great recovery.

26. Toon Link – Good camping game to rack up damage, hard to kill. Average recovery.

27. Wii Fit Trainer – Fast. Average recovery. Killing does not come easily

28. Luigi – Great at racking up damage. Solid kill power. Good recovery.

29. Olimar – Good stage control with Pikmin. Average recovery. Kill power depends on Pikmin, too random to be reliable.

30. Link – Decent camping game. Strong kill moves, but not easy to land. Mediocre recovery.

31. Falco – Landing lag on lasers limits camping game. Decent recovery. Decent at killing. Bair is amazing, other aerials not so much.

32. Fox – Lag on lasers makes camping ineffective. Decent at racking up damage and killing. Decent recovery.

33. Bowser Jr. – Decent stage control. FSmash very good for killing. Recovery is too linear and predictable.

34. Megaman – Solid camping game. Kills are hard to come by. Decent recovery.

35. Mr. Game and Watch – Decent at racking up damage. Decent at killing. Decent recovery.

36. Pit – Decent projectile, struggles to rack up damage. Struggles to kill. Fantastic recovery.

37. Dr. Mario – Decent camping game. Fairly good low percent combos. Decent at killing. Mediocre recovery.

38. Ness – Struggles racking up damage, decent at killing. Decent recovery

39. Shulk – Slow moves. Difficult to rack up damage. Good at killing. Mediocre recovery.

40. Peach – Unique pressure game with Float. Decent at killing. Poor at racking up damage. Great recovery.

41. Zelda – Mediocre at damaging and racking up damage. Decent defensive game. Decent recovery.

Low Tier

42. Kirby – Attacks do very little damage, very few kill moves. Decent recovery, but not as good as it should be for a character with so many jumps

43. Pac-Man – Powerful, but very little ability to link moves together and rack up damage. Recovery is predicable, making it mediocre at best. He avoids being lower because I like saying "Waka Waka Waka"

44. Ike – His strong moves are slow and hard to hit with, and his moves that are easy to hit with do little damage and have no kill power. Mediocre recovery. No friends in the game to fight for.

45. Samus – No kill power, too much lag on projectiles. Decent recovery but not good enough to make up for her flaws.

46. Charizard – Good kill power, but no way to reliably rack up damage. Kill moves are difficult to land. Mediocre recovery.

47. Mii Swordfighter – Decent speed on his moves, alright at racking up damage. Okay kill power. Horrible recovery.

48. Mii Gunner – Difficult to link moves together and rack up damage. Camp game weak for a projectile based character. Bad recovery.

49. Mii Brawler - Good at racking up damage. Kill moves are difficult to land. Horrible recovery.

Bottom Tier

50. Ganondorf – Very strong, but slow. Moves are hard to land. Poor recovery

51. Palutena – I have no ****ing clue what this character is trying to do. Everything about her seems extremely bad.

52. Little Mac – No recovery or aerial game. Little Mac is completely ignoring half of the game. There’s no way to win when you’re only playing half the game. Little Mac should really work on jumping.

Overall, I believe the game is very well balanced. The difference between the best characters and the worst characters is not nearly as large as it was in Melee and Brawl. I would compare this game more to Smash 64, where even bottom tier characters can be deadly tournament threats in the hands of a skilled player.

Remember, this tier list is based on my initial impressions from a brief period of time playing each character, not any sort of in depth analysis of the game. There are probably going to be some huge discrepancies with reality.

I hope you all enjoyed reading my Tier List. This was my 3000th post on Smashboards, and I put a lot of work into it, neglecting my schoolwork for much of the past 3 days. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have an essay (or 3) to write.
It's always a pleasure, Shiny Mewtwo <3

Lucario is certainly obnoxious, but I feel as though he'll have a few match-ups that won't stack in his favour because he'll get killed early enough/because characters will be able to deal with his fundamentals. His range has buffed him to the max, but I feel like characters who will win against him will have won for similar reasons as those who beat him in Brawl.

Though the more I think about it, the more I think range was one of the reasons he was able to lose certain MUs in brawl. Hmmm.... it's hard. Something about Lucario doesn't strike me as godlike; but on the other hand i'm not sure whether the increased range will bypass most of those MUs he never used to win... dunno.
 

Pazzo.

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Those are some interesting ideas, gives me a lot to think about. Haven't really seen much Ness play, so I can't really comment on the practicality of what you wrote, but in theory it makes sense.

I mained Ganon in Melee, so everything bad about him in Brawl/Smash 4 feels magnified for me.

I've seen some King Dedede players do some really interesting stuff with Gordos. At Fight Pitt V last weekend, tehre was a D3 who was using Yoshi's Island in a really interesting way to make the Gordos bounce around very erratically. I found it very creative. Unfortunately I can't find the videos right now :(
For Ness, you should check out some of NAKAT's stuff.

I'd be very interested in any Dedede stuff you can find. I'm considering adding him to my list of mains.
 
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