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Character Competitive Impressions
- Thread starter Shaya
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Yeah. At the least, he doesn't have to airdodge into needles.
If the character can't run through it, slow them down. Otherwise, aside from what you said, traps.
If he connects with the right moves, he's got some nice combos too.
Outside of Key, he doesn't really. He's not fast nor does he have burst mobility. I don't think mid range is his strong point either unless he's got some setup coming at you. Other Pac-Man players may think differently.
FullMoon
i'm just joking with you
Pac-Man's Hydrant is one of my favorite moves just because of how many hilarious shenanigans can happen with that thing.
It's super annoying to deal with though, especially when your character has trouble approaching.
It's super annoying to deal with though, especially when your character has trouble approaching.
Pyr
Smash Lord
With the Ryu hype now out of my system, I don't think he's going to be top, or even the top of high, when the dust settles. He's got more moves then everyone else, ya, but I think him finding situations to use those moves will be few and far between.
That said, I can see him being one of the most hype characters in the game.
That said, I can see him being one of the most hype characters in the game.
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Kofu
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I imagine the Hydrant is frustrating for characters with low damage output, too.
Hydrants in teams with Villager are fun though
Hydrants in teams with Villager are fun though
NairWizard
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As much as it is Shaya's mission in (smash) life to be the single source of neverending Pikachu anti-hype, it seems that it is my mission in (smash) life to be the single source of neverending Ryu anti-hype, so I will also gladly take this bet.
That, and I think ZeRo or Nairo will win.
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Funtroon
Smash Apprentice
What are your impressions of Zelda post-patch? Do you think she's more viable now that she did pre-patch, or are the buffs not enough to make her viable?
momochuu
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any alpharad dank meme video 1000 upvotes and auto front page.
probably still the worst character in the game. she has nothing to be afraid of.What are your impressions of Zelda post-patch? Do you think she's more viable now that she did pre-patch, or are the buffs not enough to make her viable?
DblCrest
Smash Journeyman
I like how Ryu's moveset changes slightly whether it's light or heavy, heck even his Final smash changes if there's noone close to him.
I know it's more due to the games he's from (heck even Fighter Kirby from Superstar had a mechanic just like that!)
I doubt the series would ever go down that route but it would be interesting if every character had something similar maybe that would lead to even more creative combos.
Also in the terms of linking moves. When Kirby has the Hadoken I've found I've had more success throwing out Shakunetsu Hadokens using the Attack button rather than Specials due to fear of suddenly throwing out hammer or stone accidentally.
Seriously try it out , you can even 'buffer' the inputs for just after Kirby throws someone or when finishing a move as well.
Also I think my circle pad is going to die due to playing as Ryu :x
I know it's more due to the games he's from (heck even Fighter Kirby from Superstar had a mechanic just like that!)
I doubt the series would ever go down that route but it would be interesting if every character had something similar maybe that would lead to even more creative combos.
Also in the terms of linking moves. When Kirby has the Hadoken I've found I've had more success throwing out Shakunetsu Hadokens using the Attack button rather than Specials due to fear of suddenly throwing out hammer or stone accidentally.
Seriously try it out , you can even 'buffer' the inputs for just after Kirby throws someone or when finishing a move as well.
Also I think my circle pad is going to die due to playing as Ryu :x
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Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
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Balgorxz
Smash Journeyman
well there are more buffs than nerfs every patch I said what is namco doing to the game right now, the game is consistently getting faster because of it.
instead of killing characters(rip diddy you will be missed) if they keep sheik like this sooner or later the other characters will catchup, we don't need to kill the already good characters for the sake of others.
FullMoon
i'm just joking with you
You clearly haven't dealt with Gordo jank properly utilized.
Smooth Criminal
Pikachu? I was gonna say him, but according to your postbit you main Pikachu, and apparently don't think it's at least even? Can't pikachu crawl under needles, or at least outcamp with jolts? In addition to everything else? I'm thinking at this point pikachu's the best in the game, customs or no. He has nothing you can abuse against him, like say... Sheik gets abused by Kirby (60:40 matchup guys Sheik is trash I swear)
Also, pikachu gets to QAC all over the place still after this patch, including random places like dream land's floor, it's bologna guys. Meanwhile, Kirby lost the ability to slide off edges with stone, which is something he's had in every smash game. And Kirby game.
NairWizard
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In default I think Pikachu loses slightly, like 55:45. Sheik's aggressive zoning is really good against Pika. You have to challenge the f-air to beat it, and when Pika leaves the ground he leaves himself susceptible to Sheik's million and a half anti-airs. Also, while Pika's air acceleration is good, his overall air speed is not that great, so he's likely to get hit by Bouncing Fish a few times per match.
Pikachu's tjolts don't outcamp Sheik, Sheik's Needles outrange him and hit him regardless. Any defensive maneuvers you execute at midrange are punishable on reaction by Sheik, too, including crawl backwards because the needles hit Pikachu's tail.
Mid-level Sheik loses to mid-level Pikachu imo, but high-level Sheik has the slight edge over high-level Pikachu. Can't speak for top level personally, but from what I've seen, ESAM drops a lot of games to Sheiks (Zex was a while ago at Final Battle but relevant, ZeRo that one time they played online but it was WiFi so maybe you can john that away, Master Raven even though ESAM won that set, and then there was that really close set that went 3-2 between him and Phozox). It's true that ESAM may be playing the matchup incorrectly, but I also don't think that the Sheiks are playing it quite correctly either, so there's room for improvement on both sides there.
Also, while I'm on a Pikachu topic, I think that default Pikachu loses to Luigi, Mario, Sheik, and possibly Olimar. Mario is probably overall his worst matchup although I know that ESAM does not agree. The rest I think are 50:50 or better.
In customs, Heavy Skull Bash is all kinds of stupid and I do think that Pikachu beats Sheik, but then again I don't think that custom Pikachu actually loses any matchups. That says more about Heavy Skull Bash than it does about Pikachu or Sheik--it's not every day that you see a fast, frame-trapping character like Pikachu gain the equivalent of a less punishable aerial Bowser f-smash with more than twice the range. The move is beyond absurd and I actually refuse to run it in local customs tournaments (though if I were to attend Evo I would certainly run it to maximize my advantage there, since the stakes are higher).
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Nobie
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One thing I've noticed with Lucas is that the hitbox on his PKT2 isn't as overwhelming as Ness's. I've seen Ness power through most projectiles, but Lucas can get hit out of his by simple attacks. It potentially changes the edgeguarding dynamics against Lucas compared to Ness, perhaps even more than having a PK thunder that passes through opponents.
**Gilgamesh**
Smash Ace
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After playing like 10 matches with a good player, I realized that sonic is not FUN AT ALL to play against. Most of the matches I either had to 1.) shield 24/7 and then 2.) be very reactive on everything he does and 3.) gets the most effective punishes.I feel like he restricts some parts of the game play from the opponent by just being so fast and strong. Do anyone else feel like this? Also I would like to how exactly do everyone deal with Sonic and their impressions on him as a character/design aspect
player, I realized that sonic is not FUN AT ALL to play against. Most of the matches I either had to 1.) shield 24/7 and then 2.) be very reactive on everything he does and 3.) gets the most effective punishes.I feel like he restricts some parts of the game play from the opponent by just being so fast and strong. Do anyone else feel like this? Also I would like to how exactly do everyone deal with Sonic and their impressions on him as a character/design aspect
Kofu
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Spin Dash is beaten by a lot of stuff but it's stupid how much flexibility it has. His ground speed is arguably a bigger problem since he can run and punish a lot of things.After playing like 10 matches with a good
But yeah, Sonic is cancer.
Why I think is a lot better in more ways than just better lag:
1. Ike has much better ground pressure.
Ike's mid-range spacing was vastly improved, and not just because of ftilt. Ike's jab is much better since he can cancel the punch with the kick at a faster rate, which in turn can be cancelled back into the jab. This is important because 1.0.7's jab was punishable since the hurtbox lingered, but now the kick covers that weakness and can be shifted to the sword slash or back to the jab. Ike's kick (jab2) has nearly as much range as ftilt and comes out on frame 3, so it's an important tool when it can be used more quickly. With this change, Ike can more easily punish spot dodges, rolls, fast approaches, and short hop aerial approaches. Combine this with angled up ftilt, dtilt, and aerial spacing, and Ike has some options up close and at a distance.
When 1.0.7 Ike dashed at you, his options consisted of shield (with average options Oos), dash grab, and jump. This was enough for bad characters, but the best could instantly use quick and safe offensive options to cover all 3. This made it so Ike had to play defensively most of the time against those characters. Now, when Ike begins the dash, his dash attack is a serious threat if he decides to use it and it hits you at the edge at 90-100, and his options after a dash shield and fox trot are significantly improved since jab2 comes out quicker and therefore punishes better. Basically, Ike doesn't need to respect others' hitboxes and movement as much anymore.
2. The lag changes and hitbox fixes provide a stacking effect towards comboing and trapping.
Fair can follow up on Ike's throws and some aerials at will, regardless of DI. Ike can also frame trap and punish much harder. He also has a few setups into kills just from his bread and butter spacing moves and throws. Nair can combo into Fair for the kill at the edge, or uair/bair with the back hit. This is because the 3 frames less landing lag on nair combines with the 3+ frames earlier hit with fair's new reach, making it much easier for some followups. They were possible before with decent timing, but now the window is quite lenient. Uthrow->Fair is guaranteed, but sometimes it doesn't kill with good DI in some positions. Because Uthrow->Uair can combo if you're nearly frame perfect and they don't DI away, but is almost guaranteed if they air dodge, Fair and Uair form a strong 50/50 where even the uair is guaranteed in some situations. DI away and that fair may just kill. There's enough time to choose which aerial to use on reaction.
3. Stages are more Ike-friendly
The changes lets Ike pressure platforms with less landing lag, extend combos with platforms, aether spike more easily (was tweaked with the patch, too), quick draw faster/gain extra charge, etc. He's just going to be overall more difficult to deal with. Remember, Ike is still ~6th overall best survivability in the game, good air speed, and slightly below average, yet serviceable ground speed. The addition of dreamland is also favorable, since the wind doesn't really affect Ike's gameplay with his huge hitboxes.
4. Quick Draw's startup buff applied to the Close Combat custom sideB
Quick draw went from 19->16 frames, but close combat's hitbox activates 1 or 2 frames earlier. Going from an 18 frame hitbox to a 14-15 frames hitbox is huge. I actually wasn't a large fan of close combat since I felt it was too slow, but its abilities in neutral and recovery improved a whole lot with the most recent patch. My favorite is 1211.
For other custom moves: Offstage, Ike can combo paralyzing counter with fair (nothing reached before if it activated offstage) and tempest has better synergy with fair when used for edgeguarding. Aether's change may have also been applied to the diagonal version, but it's difficult to tell.
Even though Ike is better in a lot of ways, it's still somewhat up in the air how much it will help his poor MUs vs. MUs he was already even or better until we see how people adapt to the new options he has. Ike's disadvantage is better, but it's still not very good, and it's the least improved compared to the massively boosted neutral and combo/punish game. At best, Ike can escape a little better if given breathing room after a hit with the better hitbox of fair below him, landing lag, and QD, but that's it.
is a lot better in more ways than just better lag:1. Ike has much better ground pressure.
Ike's mid-range spacing was vastly improved, and not just because of ftilt. Ike's jab is much better since he can cancel the punch with the kick at a faster rate, which in turn can be cancelled back into the jab. This is important because 1.0.7's jab was punishable since the hurtbox lingered, but now the kick covers that weakness and can be shifted to the sword slash or back to the jab. Ike's kick (jab2) has nearly as much range as ftilt and comes out on frame 3, so it's an important tool when it can be used more quickly. With this change, Ike can more easily punish spot dodges, rolls, fast approaches, and short hop aerial approaches. Combine this with angled up ftilt, dtilt, and aerial spacing, and Ike has some options up close and at a distance.
When 1.0.7 Ike dashed at you, his options consisted of shield (with average options Oos), dash grab, and jump. This was enough for bad characters, but the best could instantly use quick and safe offensive options to cover all 3. This made it so Ike had to play defensively most of the time against those characters. Now, when Ike begins the dash, his dash attack is a serious threat if he decides to use it and it hits you at the edge at 90-100, and his options after a dash shield and fox trot are significantly improved since jab2 comes out quicker and therefore punishes better. Basically, Ike doesn't need to respect others' hitboxes and movement as much anymore.
2. The lag changes and hitbox fixes provide a stacking effect towards comboing and trapping.
Fair can follow up on Ike's throws and some aerials at will, regardless of DI. Ike can also frame trap and punish much harder. He also has a few setups into kills just from his bread and butter spacing moves and throws. Nair can combo into Fair for the kill at the edge, or uair/bair with the back hit. This is because the 3 frames less landing lag on nair combines with the 3+ frames earlier hit with fair's new reach, making it much easier for some followups. They were possible before with decent timing, but now the window is quite lenient. Uthrow->Fair is guaranteed, but sometimes it doesn't kill with good DI in some positions. Because Uthrow->Uair can combo if you're nearly frame perfect and they don't DI away, but is almost guaranteed if they air dodge, Fair and Uair form a strong 50/50 where even the uair is guaranteed in some situations. DI away and that fair may just kill. There's enough time to choose which aerial to use on reaction.
3. Stages are more Ike-friendly
The changes lets Ike pressure platforms with less landing lag, extend combos with platforms, aether spike more easily (was tweaked with the patch, too), quick draw faster/gain extra charge, etc. He's just going to be overall more difficult to deal with. Remember, Ike is still ~6th overall best survivability in the game, good air speed, and slightly below average, yet serviceable ground speed. The addition of dreamland is also favorable, since the wind doesn't really affect Ike's gameplay with his huge hitboxes.
4. Quick Draw's startup buff applied to the Close Combat custom sideB
Quick draw went from 19->16 frames, but close combat's hitbox activates 1 or 2 frames earlier. Going from an 18 frame hitbox to a 14-15 frames hitbox is huge. I actually wasn't a large fan of close combat since I felt it was too slow, but its abilities in neutral and recovery improved a whole lot with the most recent patch. My favorite is 1211.
For other custom moves: Offstage, Ike can combo paralyzing counter with fair (nothing reached before if it activated offstage) and tempest has better synergy with fair when used for edgeguarding. Aether's change may have also been applied to the diagonal version, but it's difficult to tell.
Even though Ike is better in a lot of ways, it's still somewhat up in the air how much it will help his poor MUs vs. MUs he was already even or better until we see how people adapt to the new options he has. Ike's disadvantage is better, but it's still not very good, and it's the least improved compared to the massively boosted neutral and combo/punish game. At best, Ike can escape a little better if given breathing room after a hit with the better hitbox of fair below him, landing lag, and QD, but that's it.
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Baby_Sneak
Smash Champion
Depends on your character's forteAfter playing like 10 matches with a good
If you play someone similar to Marth or captain falcon, you need to move better than that sonic player and pressure HIM into shields. Good spacing and good graceful movement shall determine the winner position-wise.
If you play someone similar to mega man, ROB, DHD, Link, or Toon link, you just build an impenetrable fortress of properly space attacks and well-used projectiles. Control of the stage is key here, and you wan to restrict sonic to the corner as long as possible.
EDIT: It sounds like you're giving
The sonic player too much freedom. A solid sonic player that knows how to move sonic to the tee will be nigh impossible to control.
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NairWizard
Somewhere
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Bruh...After playing like 10 matches with a good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U-iW7nUV_o#t=3m52s
David Viran
Smash Lord
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I can't believe what I watched.
I was happy that Sonic got kill power in Smash 4, so he could actually be different. Now I'd prefer he gets needed to oblivion.
Ffamran
The Smooth Devil Mod
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There's also this childish attempt to make a point about 1 custom move: https://youtu.be/pONEmGXNssU... And Arikie that day was trying to prove he wasn't dependent on customs to be a good Sonic and this happens only to **** him off. Hell, Arikie even teaches people how to counter Hammer Spin Dash.
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Firefoxx
Smash Journeyman
So, how about that Diddy nerf? (up-throw from center stage/respawn point)
Ikes
Smash Journeyman
they held the standoff for a minute and 16 seconds
end my life I never want to see sonic again
also make needles like Fox's lasers. badaboom new balance. I refuse to believe a major needle nerf would kill sheik cause she already has ridiculous options everywhere else.
Also big question, is the Little Mac vs Ness matchup equal or in Mac's favor? I feel like Macs frame data and tremendous amount of super armor could shut down a lot of Ness' setups, he has a lot of options for punishing campy play, and is super good at pressuring opponents at the ledge and forcing opponents into bad positions, so long as he keeps center stage.
My brother seems to think Mac is bad cause "anyone can gimp Mac, even Mac" but he doesnt seem to understand that it's not easy to get in and gimp a Little Mac player that's playing smart and calculated, especially if he's commanding center stage.
end my life I never want to see sonic again
also make needles like Fox's lasers. badaboom new balance. I refuse to believe a major needle nerf would kill sheik cause she already has ridiculous options everywhere else.
Also big question, is the Little Mac vs Ness matchup equal or in Mac's favor? I feel like Macs frame data and tremendous amount of super armor could shut down a lot of Ness' setups, he has a lot of options for punishing campy play, and is super good at pressuring opponents at the ledge and forcing opponents into bad positions, so long as he keeps center stage.
My brother seems to think Mac is bad cause "anyone can gimp Mac, even Mac" but he doesnt seem to understand that it's not easy to get in and gimp a Little Mac player that's playing smart and calculated, especially if he's commanding center stage.
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Sheik's needles are one of the few moves that are so overpowered that they legitimately need a nerf at one point.
Make no mistake though, if they end up getting nerfed by only one bit too much the whole character could fall apart. She'd have to start approaching opponents and becomes much easier to wall out. She loses a major part of her mid-range zoning game, damage output and ability to catch landings from just about any distance. Nerfing their range could be a solution to it but I've always thought the best way to handle them would be to make them travel slower - it'd become possible to powershield them on reaction and you could like actually reflect them [it's possible to reflect them in theory but it never actually happens, they are just too fast]. Alternatively, reducing the amount of stun the inflict on hit and on block could also work.
Take it one step too far though and every ****** will just start camping her to death. She'd be a lightweight version of Captain Falcon except with worse damage output and massive problems closing down her opponents' stocks.
Make no mistake though, if they end up getting nerfed by only one bit too much the whole character could fall apart. She'd have to start approaching opponents and becomes much easier to wall out. She loses a major part of her mid-range zoning game, damage output and ability to catch landings from just about any distance. Nerfing their range could be a solution to it but I've always thought the best way to handle them would be to make them travel slower - it'd become possible to powershield them on reaction and you could like actually reflect them [it's possible to reflect them in theory but it never actually happens, they are just too fast]. Alternatively, reducing the amount of stun the inflict on hit and on block could also work.
Take it one step too far though and every ****** will just start camping her to death. She'd be a lightweight version of Captain Falcon except with worse damage output and massive problems closing down her opponents' stocks.
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Woohoo982
Smash Apprentice
"(B)" Viable as a secondaryAlright everybody, the votes have been tallied and I have the newest tier list from /r/smashbros for you all. There were no big changes in the poll or game really this month, so it will be interesting to see how people feel about the characters now that the patch has settled a bit and we've had some events..NOW HERE WE GO!
(S) - Best For Tournament Play
(A) - Solo Tournament Viable
(B) - Tournament Viable With Secondaries
(C) - Niche Use
(D) - Not Tournament Viable
(F) - Never Use
Below I do have splits into + and - tiers, and while I don't think they need to be split up THAT much, that's what the numbers showed in comparison for the vote, so just consider them the characters people think are a bit better or worse than the others in their respective categories.
The Official /r/smashbros Monthly Voted Tier List Results
(S)
(A+)
(A)
(A-)
(B+)
(B)
(B-)
(C+)
(C)
(C-)
A few things I personally noticed: there's quite a few characters that actually stayed in their place or maybe moved 1-2 spots this month, I think peoples impressions are starting to settle out a bit. Though it seems a few characters are still really seeing radical changes (Kirby and Little Mac WOW) and the mid to lower tiers are having the most fluctuation.
Here are the Miscellaneous Questions!
[collapse=]
Which character do you think has the most hidden potential?
1.
2.
3.
Which character do you think is the most overrated?
1.
2.
3.
Which character do you think is easiest to use?
1.
2.
3.
Which character do you think is hardest to use?
1.
2.
3.
Which character do you hate to fight the most?
1.
2.
3.
Which character do you love to fight the most?
1.
2.
3.
Which character do you play as as most?
1.
2.
3.
[/collapse]
So here you go everyone, what do you all think?
Have you ever seen GimR or Abadango? Ever?
Also, why Bowser at C+?
PUK
Smash Ace
Because it's a communautary voted tier list.
And a lot of characters (read: everyone) can do well solo at Local level.
Abadango does bring out Wario on occasion still.
Abadango does bring out Wario on occasion still.
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Last I checked, the people at the Mac boards think it's one of Mac's worst matchups. F-Air carries Mac for days, things are less safe than they normally are on shield, and it's easy for Ness to find trades (and Little Mac hates trading in this matchup).
My suggestion to fix needles would be this:
Needles have a kind of "anti-transcendent" priority where they simply lose to any other hitbox in the game. A single fireball? Eats an entire stack of needles and keeps going unimpeded. Ganon Dash attack? Goes right through them and nails Sheik in the face. Sheik must manoeuvre around other characters' attacks if she wants them to hit, which she's more than capable of doing due to her mobility.
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If they cannot clank, then unless your attack lasts something like twenty frames, you're not going to stop anything close to a full charge with an attack. Each Needle is a separate hitbox.
I know, and that means you can't simply stick out a jab and beat them all, but a long-lasting projectile or dash attack has a good chance of doing it.
Also, if you're near Sheik when she uses them, you may hit her first before she is able to throw them all.
If it were as simple as having a Dash Attack out at the time they're thrown, people would spotdodge or jump over them way more often. The biggest threat is how they prevent you from landing safely in many cases, a situation where the vast majority of characters cannot stick out something to protect them.
Also, the vast majority of characters don't have that kind of lingering hitbox, period.
Also, the vast majority of characters don't have that kind of lingering hitbox, period.
I feel that trapping landings is a pretty legitimate use of needles. That's far from all they're good for, though, for example they're also great for projectile wars and just peppering the opponent whenever you've got space.
There are also a handful of landing options that would blow right through, like Fox / Falco Illusion for example, and with their projectile war winning capabilities gone Sheik would have to care a lot more about zoners now.
Basically, the goal is that Sheik should have to think about when to throw needles. Right now, Needles are basically a zero-thought action, since the risk is so low and there's almost always at least some degree of reward. Making Sheik think twice about throwing them in certain situations is already a big nerf to her game.
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Smog Frog
Smash Lord
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even if needles are half of what they are now, is still a high/top tier character because needles are(from what i understand anyway) the purpose of many moves in one. damage, traps, punish, setups etc. all describe needles. she has other moves for these purposes, and having such a flexible and strong kit is bound to keep you high/top tier because you can do whatever you need to do(efficiently!)with what you have. unless you took away all of tools, she is a high/top tier character by default. needles are just straight obnoxious. lets look at ,who underwent nerfs that "obliterated" him. arguably broken aspects from moves(fair doing 12 damage and klling, uair doing the same thing except being 8% and a sex kick)are just removed, and people still think he's high/top tier. why? his tools are simply too strong for below high tier. hitboxes, frame data, heck, he still does decent damage per hit. a decent nerf to needles would be damage scaling with distance(this already kinda happens, at close range they do 11% and farther they do 7%)so probably remove damage the farther they travel. at the farthest range, each individual needle is doing .5%, leading to a grand total of...3.5 damage. hey, its safe, it did damage, and got half charge on another set of needles. its just the reward isnt ridiculous for the safety it possesses.
is still a high/top tier character because needles are(from what i understand anyway) the purpose of many moves in one. damage, traps, punish, setups etc. all describe needles. she has other moves for these purposes, and having such a flexible and strong kit is bound to keep you high/top tier because you can do whatever you need to do(efficiently!)with what you have. unless you took away all of tools, she is a high/top tier character by default. needles are just straight obnoxious. lets look at ,who underwent nerfs that "obliterated" him. arguably broken aspects from moves(fair doing 12 damage and klling, uair doing the same thing except being 8% and a sex kick)are just removed, and people still think he's high/top tier. why? his tools are simply too strong for below high tier. hitboxes, frame data, heck, he still does decent damage per hit. a decent nerf to needles would be damage scaling with distance(this already kinda happens, at close range they do 11% and farther they do 7%)so probably remove damage the farther they travel. at the farthest range, each individual needle is doing .5%, leading to a grand total of...3.5 damage. hey, its safe, it did damage, and got half charge on another set of needles. its just the reward isnt ridiculous for the safety it possesses.
Ryu_Ken
Ace Adventurer and Truth Seeker
So the needles don't need nerfing at all: it's just they wreck everyone that don't have a way of defending themselves while being risky against characters that can.
Link and Falco say "hi" to Sheik.
Link and Falco say "hi" to Sheik.
Quickhero
Smash Ace
I am unsure as to whether you're making a statement stating in a sarcastic manner that Sheik's needles are broken, or as a sarcastic response to somebody, but this needs to be stated regardless. Jack diddly squat NEEDS to be nerfed in this game. Sheik's presence doesn't invalidate a single member of the cast, let alone a huge portion of the cast. COULD Sheik's needles be nerfed to be a bit healthier? Possibly; but just deal with the situation and understand what you can do about it because even Sheik as a whole isn't unhealthy.So the needles don't need nerfing at all: it's just they wreck everyone that don't have a way of defending themselves while being risky against characters that can.
Link and Falco say "hi" to Sheik.
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