Character Competitive Impressions

[ParanoidDrone]

Yeah, deep blue is big buffs, light blue is medium buffs, green is small buffs, grey is no change, yellow is a small mix of small nerfs and small buffs, red/orange is people who got several medium nerfs, a jab buff, and are named Diddy Kong.


Edit: For all our complaints about Sheik (and I'm totally on board that train), current Sheik is a rather tame top character in the grand scheme of things.

Current Sheik < Previous Sheik < Previous Diddy Kong < Any top-tier in any previous Smash title

You're not wrong. I just find it really annoying that needles are such an amazing long range tool on top of her already-fantastic close range stuff. Are there any characters that force Sheik to respect them? (Or a specific option of theirs, would probably be more accurate.)

 

[Radical Larry]

A character like Link or ZSS could grab Sheik with their grabs if Sheik uses Needles and rushes to them. Link benefits from his Hylian Shield against Sheik's Needles, and Sheik would need to think twice about approaching. Link still has F-Tilt, U-Tilt and Spin Attack for grounded and aerial approaches.

In an aerial battle, Sheik should respect Link due to his superior range in most of his aerials, and the fact that his U-Air is very dangerous for Sheik to try to come against when recovering from the top. Yet Link has to watch out for her speedy and multi-hitting aerials. In a battle of U-Air vs D-Air and Vertical Recovery, Link wins both ends. His D-Air beats Sheik's U-Air and allows him to recover safely, and his U-Air beats Sheik's D-Air and won't allow her to come back to the ground safely.

Now as for the Needles, Link's projectiles can certainly match or, in Bomb's case, outmatch them. Or again, since his Hylian Shield actually works, he could just block them with it and counterattack. Seems reasonable enough.

Sheik vs Link is just a weird thing to talk about. I can't really tell who's better, even at this point.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Multijumps don't last forever. Plus, the fact that the needles travel diagonally AND the fact Sheik has really high/fast jumps doesn't make it a better option than running at her on the ground.

They don't need to? You're just basically doing footsies in the air waiting to see if she'll throw out a needle/jump trying to garner.
Not because you have to, because its an option you have that someone like Bowser does not. A character like Kirby ends up just having options in this specific situation that are relevant. Floaty, LW? Well that affects the combo game that Sheik uses to maximize her reward given her individual damage per hit is frankly ass on the majority of moves after Sakurais gone through with that nerf bat. Low crouch? That affects needles play, that affects when you have to throw out the aerial to hit his hurtbox. Aka, he can get more commitment out of her then most from her aerials. Multi-jumps? Makes it harder for her to accurately punish landings.Doesn't hurt that his U-air, Nair and B-air all hit harder then her N-air,Fair,Bair,U-air, D-air so he trades better in an aerial collision unless he throws out F-air or D-air. Tack this on top of generally stronger KO power, tilts equivalent/superior in speed for CQC with higher damage output, leaving her to having jab as her advantage in CQC which doesn't kill and isn't the safest move in her repertoire. It all comes together to be particularly relevant.

Multijumps don't last forever, but you don't need them to, its simply nice to have the option.Pikachu doesn't have multi-jumps but if she did with a lower frame....it wouldn't matter that they don't last forever, the option would be appreciated.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Current Sheik < Previous Sheik < Previous Diddy Kong < Any top-tier in any previous Smash title

This should be engraved on every single Wii U ever sold.

 

[Thinkaman]

I suddenly just, for the first time, realized the irony of Zelda being the worst character in this game and Sheik being the best.

...and so the slowest train pulls into the station, just in time to get Ganon u-tilt'd.

 

[Quickhero]

I suddenly just, for the first time, realized the irony of Zelda being the worst character in this game and Sheik being the best.

But Zelda can't transform into Sheik, therefore Sheik is a separate character entirely.

Checkmate, tier lists.

 

[-RedX-]

I feel bad for Dr. Mario. Seems like most people don't even mention his name anymore.

 

[Quickhero]

I feel bad for Dr. Mario. Seems like most people don't even mention his name anymore.

Man, Dr. Mario is mentioned a few times at least as a realization that he's a semi-clone of Mario, but when was the last time you heard of Duck Hunt Dog? I haven't heard of him at all really anywhere these past few months. Even the creators haven't changed him at all since release while (I'm pretty sure) everybody else has gotten changed one way or another via patches.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

When was the last time you've ever heard of Link? Or Tink? Or even Wario? These guys need to see some more action, especially because of how viable they are.

 

[Firefoxx]

Man, Dr. Mario is mentioned a few times at least as a realization that he's a semi-clone of Mario, but when was the last time you heard of Duck Hunt Dog? I haven't heard of him at all really anywhere these past few months. Even the creators haven't changed him at all since release while (I'm pretty sure) everybody else has gotten changed one way or another via patches.

Funnily enough, DH is 6th in reported wins at regionals since 1.06. He's won 4 such events, which puts him 1 win above ROB, Sonic, Pikachu, ZSS, and Wario, 2 wins above Rosalina and Mario, and 3 wins above notables like Ness and Villager

 

[Woohoo982]

Where would my man be on a smash 4 tierlist that isn't /r/ smashbros or event hubs?

 

[Djent]

I suddenly just, for the first time, realized the irony of Zelda being the worst character in this game and Sheik being the best.

is hogging 2 of the 3 Triforce pieces! IMO the best way to restore balance is to heavily buff .

 

[BSP]

I suddenly just, for the first time, realized the irony of Zelda being the worst character in this game and Sheik being the best.

...and so the slowest train pulls into the station, just in time to get Ganon u-tilt'd.

It took me way too long to realize what "Lucas comes out of Nowhere" really meant. I felt dumb afterwards.

 

[Woohoo982]

It took me way too long to realize what "Lucas comes out of Nowhere" really meant. I felt dumb afterwards.

I feel you.

 

[Yonder]

Where would my man be on a smash 4 tierlist that isn't /r/ smashbros or event hubs?

I think he's getting better. Thanks to less bair landing lag from the last patch and increased killing from D tilt, along with Gimr showing up d throw to uair kills...I can't tell you how many bair stage spike kills I've gotten with game and watch. I'd say 80% of my kills from from his edgeguarding, he is definitely one of the best edgeguarders in game thanks to big hitboxes andd aerial speed [unlike mk] + a great recovery. He gained a lot of great ground tools in this game, especially a usable projectile [still not gret but...]Heck, I've actually won with this guy in a tourney recently after losing as Luigi. Initially I had him as top of the low tier...but I think he warrents low mid-middle of mid tier now. He still lacks consistant KO power. If he had his smash 4 ground game and his Brawl kill power...instant high tier no questions asked.

 

[thehard]

low mid-middle of mid tier

Woah, what?

 

[Yonder]

Woah, what?

Woah what, what? I think he's better now than initially, but not by much. Also of note Game and Watch gets rocked by rage harder than any other character in the game which is a huge setback.

People say Charizard is mid and I don't see it though, he went up to Game and Watch's previous position of top of low after grab buffs.

 

[thehard]

Woah what, what? I think he's better now than initially, but not by much. Also of note Game and Watch gets rocked by rage harder than any other character in the game which is a huge setback.

People say Charizard is mid and I don't see it though, he went up to Game and Watch's previous position of top of low after grab buffs.

Could you make a graphical representation of what "low mid-middle of mid tier" would look like?

 

[Ryu_Ken]

I don't see Charizard moving up any spots. At best, he's bottom-mid tier (is that a thing?)

 

[Smog Frog]

it's probably a range of placements rather than a concrete placement @ thehard

also dont underestimate throw buffs, his amazing grab and now great throws put him in top 5 for best overall grab/throw games(with such characters as ,etc.)

 

[Yonder]

Could you make a graphical representation of what "low mid-middle of mid tier" would look like?

I guess I mean he could be either the bottom half of the middle tier or smack dab in the middle of the middle tier. I suppose I worded that awkwardly before. Probably lower mid though, rage is too big of a factor. Sure Mewtwo and Jigglypuff are lighter, but they at last have solid kill options [on another note, M2 is not low tier imo, contrary to popular belief]

 

[mimgrim]

I think it is more of a case of what does "low mid-middle of mid tier" even mean then actually questioning where you put him.

Zard is still the most underrated character it seems lol.

EDIT - Ninja'd on the first part lol.

 

[thehard]

I guess I mean he could be either the bottom half of the middle tier or smack dab in the middle of the middle tier. I suppose I worded that awkwardly before. Probably lower mid though, rage is too big of a factor. Sure Mewtwo and Jigglypuff are lighter, but they at last have solid kill options [on another note, M2 is not low tier imo, contrary to popular belief]

Oh god, I read that all wrong. My bad. I thought it was one ranking, not a range.

 

[Thinkaman]

I don't understand how anyone can see Charizard killing out of grabs at 70% and think,

"Naw man, I don't see this character moving up."

 

[Ryu_Ken]

I don't understand how anyone can see Charizard killing out of grabs at 70% and think,

"Naw man, I don't see this character moving up."

*ahem let me rephrase that:

I don't see Charizard moving up that many spots. At best, he's bottom-mid tier (is that a thing?)

There, fixed it.

 

[Blobface]

I suddenly just, for the first time, realized the irony of Zelda being the worst character in this game and Sheik being the best.

...and so the slowest train pulls into the station, just in time to get Ganon u-tilt'd.

Hey, Ganon's U-tilt isn't that slow. It hits on Frame 6!

...the windbox does at least.

Funnily enough, DH is 6th in reported wins at regionals since 1.06. He's won 4 such events, which puts him 1 win above ROB, Sonic, Pikachu, ZSS, and Wario, 2 wins above Rosalina and Mario, and 3 wins above notables like Ness and Villager

Wait, what? Were those custom tourneys? If those were custom tourneys I could see it, but customs off I just don't understand how he could be above all those top tiers.

 

[Firefoxx]

Wait, what? Were those custom tourneys? If those were custom tourneys I could see it, but customs off I just don't understand how he could be above all those top tiers.

I could look it all up but I think it's pretty safe to assume they were customs legal events.

 

[BSP]

So something that I've been seeing a bit lately that shocks me is people putting over .

I know has gotten some key nerfs, but the things that made him good in the first place are still intact. He's got to work much harder for his KOs, but his speed and mixups still pose a large threat to a majority of the cast. Or is Luigi's reward just that good?

 

[Ikes]

So something that I've been seeing a bit lately that shocks me is people putting over .

I know has gotten some key nerfs, but the things that made him good in the first place are still intact. He's got to work much harder for his KOs, but his speed and mixups still pose a large threat to a majority of the cast. Or is Luigi's reward just that good?

Luigi's reward is just THAT good.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

People just don't get how powerful mobility is yet. They'll get it over time.

 

[Ghostbone]

So something that I've been seeing a bit lately that shocks me is people putting over .

I know has gotten some key nerfs, but the things that made him good in the first place are still intact. He's got to work much harder for his KOs, but his speed and mixups still pose a large threat to a majority of the cast. Or is Luigi's reward just that good?

Luigi's probably 3rd best in the game now with Diddy nerfed tbh.

Ridiculous reward off a grab (27% at early %s with potential for followups, and killing at like 105), coupled with a ridiculously strong projectile is hard to deal with lol.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

You know, Mario's and Luigi's Fireballs haven't struck me as awesome projectiles. They're just... okay.

 

[Nu~]

You know, Mario's and Luigi's Fireballs haven't struck me as awesome projectiles. They're just... okay.

Mario's aren't very good, but luigi's are pretty stupid. Safe on powershield and lead into grab -> kill

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Mario's aren't very good, but luigi's are pretty stupid. Safe on powershield and lead into grab -> kill

As a Link main, i've learned to just either take the fire and jab combo Luigi before he grabs me or just bomb throw the fire. That's why i don't find them very impressive. In fact, i think Link has better options in neutral then Luigi.

 

[S_B]

As a Link main, i've learned to just either take the fire and jab combo Luigi before he grabs me or just bomb throw the fire. That's why i don't find them very impressive. In fact, i think Link has better options in neutral then Luigi.

If you just stand there, your hylian shield should block the fire for you. Or does that cause a hitstun of some kind?

 

[Ryu_Ken]

If you just stand there, your hylian shield should block the fire for you. Or does that cause a hitstun of some kind?

That's what i meant, i thought. And there is like 1 frame of hitstun upon contact, so its not too significant.

 

[S_B]

That's what i meant, i thought. And there is like 1 frame of hitstun upon contact, so its not too significant.

Ah sorry. I come from a Bowser background where "take the fire" means "run right through Weegee's fireball and grab him".

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Ah sorry. I come from a Bowser background where "take the fire" means "run right through Weegee's fireball and grab him".

It's all good. just more proof how weak and unimpressive the fireballs are.

 

[Smog Frog]

Luigi's reward is just THAT good.

is a top tier then? what about ?

reward alone doesnt make a top tier. you have to possess more. alot more, in fact. possesses more, but not enough to be the top 5 terror people perceive him to be. who started this trend, anyway? i think zero said he was top 5 in a previous video. but here's a psa: i wouldn't believe claims zero makes without solid evidence. zero's known to be a bit of an exaggerator and frankly full of himself. basically a little more extreme version of m2k with additional ego.

mobility is probably one of the most important traits in neutral(if not THE most important), and has a severe deficit of that. if didnt inch along at the speed of a snail, he'd be alot more threatening and probably be the top 5 terror he's perceived to be. also, shielding the fireballs is not the way to go about treating it. avoiding them is a better alternative. how can you avoid them? jumping onto a platform, hit as he comes in because he sure as **** has trouble challenging stuff with his poor range and shielded hits are normally safe since he slides so far back. basically just dont take the fireball.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Just remember that pretty much everything is safe on Luigi's sheild. I think this is almost always overlooked when people cry for nerfs.