Character Competitive Impressions

[Firefoxx]

I shall make a bold claim: Ryu is now the best fighter in the game and will invalidate many characters. Enjoy.

I'm not sure this is even that bold tbh. He looks that damn good right now

 

[FullMoon]

Ryu is the only one who really looks to be that good really. Roy and Lucas both look good but still not what I'd call top tier.

 

[HeroMystic]

Way too early to tell, but initial impressions are:

Ryu: High Tier, contending for Top Tier (I don't make this claim lightly).
Roy: High-Mid Tier (Best FE character for sure).
Lucas: Low High Tier (bad grab will be an issue).

Keep in mind that's just my impressions, but I have a really high impression of Ryu at the moment. He looks amazing.

 

[Ulevo]

Roy is really solid. His normals are so good. Damn.

 

[LiteralGrill]

I'm not sure this is even that bold tbh. He looks that damn good right now

The invalidating part is more what I thought was bold. I really think with Ryu around a lot of characters became useless in a tournament setting.

 

[Shog]

Ryu scares me tbh. Not even a Nintendo Character and Top Tier? Yuck. I rather have Lucina top tier than him

 

[neohopeSTF]

so does sheik but she's still S tier

it's not the effort taken to use a character but rather how good they are at peak levels of performance. when a purchased character exceeds everyone else at peak performance, it's pay to win.

Do you know what you are talking about? Its pay to win, you aren't guranteed to win when you buy them.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Roy is really solid. His normals are so good. Damn.

Roy utterly invalidates both Marth and Lucina. They have a bit more range but it doesnt matter. Roy has better everything that matters, including better trap game and better true combo potential.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Lucas looks really good and I can easily imagine him ending up very high on the tier list. His fundamentals and gimmicks both look damn powerful. His grab may not be very good but the reward ... holy ****.

 

[Trifroze]

Here's some quick Ryu data:

Frame Data

Jab light: 4?
Jab heavy: 9
Ftilt light: 10?
Ftilt heavy: 13, 25
Dtilt light: 3?
Dtilt heavy: 7
Utilt light: 4?
Utilt heavy: 7
Dash attack: 7
Fsmash: 15
Usmash: 9
Dsmash: 6
Nair: 4
Fair: 6
Uair: 6
Dair: 8
Bair: 8

Grab: 6
Dash grab: 8
Pivot grab: 8

Neutral b: 12
Hadoken input: 14
Shakunetsu input: 13
Up b: 6
Shoryuken input: 6
Side b: 8
Tatsumaki input: 8
Down b (minimum for stun): 41

Landing Lag

Nair: 6
Fair: 14
Bair: 12
Uair: 14
Dair: 18
Shoryuken: 12

- Very good frame data and probably the least overall landing lag in the game
- Nair can break out of combos, it's like Mac's but a couple frames slower and the hitbox is on the entire body and sends the opponent away with proper knockback
- Focus attack, Shoryuken, bair, dair, heavy ftilt and heavy jab are probably some of the best moves in the game
- Dair meteor is about as strong as Falcon's and it's frame 8
- Walk speed is pretty slow, running speed average or above average
- Air speed is great (Mario, ZSS, DK level) and aerial mobility (change of directions) is terrible
- You cannot grab Ryu between his Collarbone Breaker hits even by a frame 6 grab
- His grab range is pretty poor while his dash grab is great and pivot grab good, they're all also very fast
- No throw setups as far as I can tell

 

[Ffamran]

Why do I get the feel that as more DLC characters get in, they're going to be overall better than the rest of the cast? Mewtwo might be a low or mid tier, but he's strong compared to other low and mid tiers, then there's Lucas and Roy who more or less are stronger than mid and high tier characters, and Ryu? Yeah... At this rate, Wolf, Pichu, Snake, Ivysaur, and Squirtle will make everyone look like chumps.

Oh, but patches can fix things. Yes, but these characters are coming out strong and swinging. And for those that care, Falco was nerfed; Nair and Uair does 1% less, Fair landing does 2% less, Dair's spike can't lock which while difficult to pull off with frame canceling, was a thing he could do like Captain Falcon and Ganondorf. His Fair might be faster and his Nair might connect better, but thing is he's got nothing on anyone and he has nothing that would make him outstanding or safe like having hit confirms outside of a sour-spot Uair which makes the nerfs feel more apparent since 1% adds up over time. Ryu is going to turn him into a punching bag, Lucas will wreck him like Ness, and Roy's going to rush him down. If DLC characters are coming out strong, then shouldn't characters be stronger to even the leveling field instead of weakening them? Then again, it's Falco and nobody gives a damn considering he's been nerfed of all things.

Only time will tell and even though Ryu might be the best, he could be like Smash 4 Sheik and Melee Fox: characters with immense potential, but require immense skill and execution to use them effectively. Ryu would be more like Melee Fox though, since he boasts a lot of power compared to Smash 4 Sheik. Roy also suffers from needing to be up close unlike other sword users. He could get walled out, pressured out, and outranged. As for Lucas, I don't know about him other than his recovery which Roy also has issues with, will be a problem, but that's not surprising since Lucas and Ness have similar recoveries.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ok so Roy is more so about ground game and set-ups. Marth is better in the air from what I can tell. Roy im still better though. Better jab and utilt. DED is good. As good as DB. Blazer is awesome. He has throw set-ups out the butt. Roy has no short hop AC aerials. Which is fine because at least there is a reason to play Marth. He hits harder overall then Marth though.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Day 1 Lucas impressions:
Ground game:
Jab combo: it's good enough. Sometimes the third hit misses.
Ftilt: I love this move. It's great for spacing and it's really quick. The sourspot close to lucas can set up tech chases.
Up tilt: Haven't found much use other than obviously starting juggles and pressuring platforms safely.
Dtilt: Doesn't jab reset at all. Range feels smaller than brawl. So far Ive only been able to use it as a Jab 1 for his jab combo.
Fsmash: Hitbox comes out quick. I like using it to punish.
Dsmash: As expected, it's awesome at the ledge. But it's too laggy pretty much everywhere else.
Up smash: Self explanatory. Can reach below the ledge, making it useful if you get a ledge trump or something.
Grab: It's okay for a tether. There's a ton of endlag on all 3 so it's risky af. But the reward for a grab is incredible.
Pummel: Fast af. It's aight.
DOWN THROW: This thing. Has so much more hitstun than I expected. It combos into all his aerials at low-mid percents INCLUDING DAIR. At high percents, he has a Hoo-hah. This is by far his best throw until kill percents.
Up throw: it KO's around when Mewtwo's does.
Forward throw: I never use it unless I want to edgeguard.
Back throw: this kills too. Especially at the ledge.

Basically, his grab game sucks but his throw game is among the likes of Luigi and Ness.

Air game:
Zair: Very good spacing tool. Hardly any landing lag. I use it a lot.
Nair: it has a little bit of landing lag and isn't as safe as Brawl. Doesn't do a lot if shield damage either. However, the hitbox covers his entire body. It's got some use despite the nerf.
Fair: low startup and high ending and landing lag. It's like Zelda's lightning kicks with a bigger hitbox and very little killpower. It's good, but not great.
Uair: new animation. It kills and can be combo'd into from a Dthrow. Lots of endlag. Awesome move, comes out quick.
Bair: It's... okay I guess. Hard to sweetspot but I guess it's pretty fast for a spike. Not that useful.
Dair: if it wasn't for the fact that d-throw combos into this, it would suck.
Hair: yellow and long

Specials:
Side magnet: This is it. Lucas's best move in my opinion. It kills, semi spikes, and can be jump canceled. You can use it to stall in the air too. The hitbox isn't as big as it looks but that's okay because it SEMI SPIKES and is surprisingly safe. Incredible edgeguarding tool.
PK fire: Another move that can set up tech chases. It doesn't autocancel at all, which is unfortunate. It can stop approaches.
PK thunder: Identical to Brawl as far as I can tell.
PK freeze: haven't found a use for it yet.

Overall I think Lucas's moveset is pretty solid. If this guy gets a grab he can do a lot. The grab itself holds him back though. He's like a balanced luigi! Offstage Side magnet is so good.

 

[Ulevo]

So Ryu gets 28% off down throw to Shoryuken if yoy do at 0%.

And yeah. Roy is the FE char, and Ike, Marth, Lucina are the low tier characters you play for fun.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I wouldn't say Ryu invalidates anything YET, I do think he's amazing though holy ****. Invalidation though? Not too sure, time will tell. I do think he's high tier if not top tier though.

Also this "Pay 2 win" crap needs to stop, makes my head hurt and is also insufferable. It's like the sleaziest way to knock someone for playing a char they like that happens to be really good LOL just cus they were devved later for the game?

 

[6 g0d]

I wouldnt say sheik is skrewed even if she isnt the best charecter she will still remain top tier and with dreamland now legal it helps her out alot

 

[ChampKing]

Why do I get the feel that as more DLC characters get in, they're going to be overall better than the rest of the cast? Mewtwo might be a low or mid tier, but he's strong compared to other low and mid tiers, then there's Lucas and Roy who more or less are stronger than mid and high tier characters, and Ryu? Yeah... At this rate, Wolf, Pichu, Snake, Ivysaur, and Squirtle will make everyone look like chumps.

Oh, but patches can fix things. Yes, but these characters are coming out strong and swinging. And for those that care, Falco was nerfed; Nair and Uair does 1% less, Fair landing does 2% less, Dair's spike can't lock which while difficult to pull off with frame canceling, was a thing he could do like Captain Falcon and Ganondorf. His Fair might be faster and his Nair might connect better, but thing is he's got nothing on anyone and he has nothing that would make him outstanding or safe like having hit confirms outside of a sour-spot Uair which makes the nerfs feel more apparent since 1% adds up over time. Ryu is going to turn him into a punching bag, Lucas will wreck him like Ness, and Roy's going to rush him down. If DLC characters are coming out strong, then shouldn't characters be stronger to even the leveling field instead of weakening them? Then again, it's Falco and nobody gives a damn considering he's been nerfed of all things.

Only time will tell and even though Ryu might be the best, he could be like Smash 4 Sheik and Melee Fox: characters with immense potential, but require immense skill and execution to use them effectively. Ryu would be more like Melee Fox though, since he boasts a lot of power compared to Smash 4 Sheik. Roy also suffers from needing to be up close unlike other sword users. He could get walled out, pressured out, and outranged. As for Lucas, I don't know about him other than his recovery which Roy also has issues with, will be a problem, but that's not surprising since Lucas and Ness have similar recoveries.

Sakurai and his balance team can't actually balance anything. Not surprising at all. Ryu seems completely dumb and I bet his "complexity" will be used to justify it. Also Smash 4 Shiek requires immense skill and execution. Since when? Did something change with Shiek recently.
Ryu has great attacks, decent recovery and a good projectile. Seems like a high tier at worst.
Roy invalidates other FE characters. Lucas seems well designed for now. I like him.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

with dreamland now legal it helps her out alot

How so?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So Ryu gets 28% off down throw to Shoryuken if yoy do at 0%.

And yeah. Roy is the FE char, and Ike, Marth, Lucina are the low tier characters you play for fun.

Ike's buffs are actually once again serious.

Do not sleep on that character.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

So Ryu gets 28% off down throw to Shoryuken if yoy do at 0%.

And yeah. Roy is the FE char, and Ike, Marth, Lucina are the low tier characters you play for fun.

Except all of them got buffs (and Ike was already undoubtably mid tier, and Marth and Lucina were arguably mid tier with Dancing Blade buffs they got last time). For Marth and Lucina its a massive list of true combos out of jab, including some into Fsmash and Usmash at kill percents apparently. For Ike, his Dash Attack is now amazing, his Ftilt is faster, his Jab combo is faster, and at a minimum at least his Fair has a better hitbox.

Don't place Roy on a stand quite yet.

 

[HeroMystic]

Meanwhile, Robin stays in the library with Chrom.

 

[FullMoon]

Lucas's throws are god's gift oh my god.

 

[bc1910]

Where is all this poor Sheik nonsense coming from? Wasn't she untouched? No matter how good Ryu is she'll remain top tier even if she isn't the best.

Ryu seems amazing. Calling top tier, at least for now. Combos out the ass, damage output is stupid, throw game isn't good but he can pressure shields quite well. I feel like his recovery is suffering from Luigi syndrome where it seems better than it is but I don't know exactly how Shoryuken's invincibility works so I could be talking out my ass. Light Utilt is just lol. He'll give Sheik a run for her money in the MU. WAY too early to call best in the game but it's not a baseless assertion.

Some aspects of Lucas seem amazing and others seem quite meh, probably averages out to a high tier but his throws could push him higher. Throws, kill power and reward on hit all seem amazing. Fair leading to a tech chase is so good. However, whiffing attacks or hitting shields seems to make him quite vulnerable particularly with aerials, his grab and recovery aren't the worst but they leave a lot to be desired. I think he's a bit high risk high reward but the reward generally outweighs the risk and he is very powerful.

Roy seems like the weakest of the new DLC but easily the best FE character and still good. Good throw game, powerful, has several combos and traps. Short hop is really good but his SH aerials aren't that safe. Still his tomahawk will be amazing.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Actually, I'm going to go ahead and call how I think the FE reps will end up once everybody realizes how drastically buffed Ike, Marth, and Lucina were:

Marth > Ike > Lucina > Roy > Robin

 

[Ulevo]

Ike's buffs are actually once again serious.

Do not sleep on that character.

Call me when he is actually good and does not have 3:7 match ups.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Roy seems to invalidate all FE characters (as if they weren't invalidated already). He's got a nice set up game.

His recovery isn't good, but while he's on stage, he can rack up some nice damage. He can kill pretty early too. His smashes are great.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Call me when he is actually good and does not have 3:7 match ups.

Sup.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Call me when he is actually good and does not have 3:7 match ups.

Already was there before this patch.

You're way behind.

 

[Mario766]

Call me when he is actually good and does not have 3:7 match ups.

Name me a 3:7 Ike match-up.

 

[King Omega]

The Ryu praise is an overreaction. The character is great, but I don't think he'll DO exceptionally well. He'll just do well.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Name me a 3:7 Ike match-up.

Before you say Sheik: 35-65. PARTICULARLY after this recent set of patches.

 

[Ulevo]

Name me a 3:7 Ike match-up.

Olimar.

Your welcome.

 

[Mario766]

Olimar.

Your welcome.

Since when lol.

It wasn't even that in Brawl, when the match-up was a lot worse.

 

[Ulevo]

Y

Since when lol.

It wasn't even that in Brawl, when the match-up was a lot worse.

You sound like those people who judge Meta Knight based on Brawl preconceptions.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Olimar isn't 3-7. We have a guy who fights Olimar somewhat frequently. Its not in our favour but its winnable.

Not a single character has a 7-3 advantage on Ike.

 

[Ffamran]

Sakurai and his balance team can't actually balance anything. Not surprising at all.

Namco being involved should at least give something to them being able to balance things.

Also Smash 4 Shiek requires immense skill and execution. Since when? Did something change with Shiek recently.

You can rack up as much damage as you want with Sheik, you can throw as many Needles as you want with Sheik, and you can Fair everything in your path, but if you don't understand how to kill with her, what her setups are, how to edgeguard with her, and when to use her moves, you're doing nothing, but flailing your arms around. Sheik is one of the most braindead looking character, but is one of the more difficult characters to use effectively. Her lack of kill power means you have to be on point and keep pressuring since against a competent player and with rage, she's going to die.

Meanwhile, Robin stays in the library with Chrom.

Meanwhile, Falco is becoming the joke character in this game. At this rate of nerfs and trivial buffs, Falco's going to be swapping spots with Zelda or whoever people think is the worst character in the game. Thanks for the nerfs, developers. It's not like people were complaining about how underwhelming Falco is in the game.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Aerial FADC is ****ing ridiculous on Ryu. Nonsense is clearly broken. Boosts his recovery and basically ensures he can't ever be screwed with in the air in neutral. Combine with Tatsu and invincible DP you have a solid recovery and negative state.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Aerial FADC is ****ing ridiculous on Ryu. Nonsense is clearly broken. Boosts his recovery and basically ensures he can't ever be screwed with in the air in neutral. Combine with Tatsu and invincible DP you have a solid recovery and negative state.

FADC loses to anything multihit and the dash is kind of like a roll except with no invul at all. Most chars with good runspeed can just run up if he does this and react to it. Keep in mind he can't dash until like, 6 or 7 frames into the FADC (the first few are commital frames that are pretty telling, the effects are really obvious)

Won't deny he has a solid advantaged and negative state though! Hardly find him broken as a whole though, his mobility and solid but pretty uh...linear recovery kind of exist. I think he has some of the worst air control in this game, he has to fully commit to a forward jump outside of FADC. Actual SF tier jumping.

PS Ryu dies really bad to anything that semi-spikes or sends at a mostly horizontal low angle as all of his recovery options outside of SRK excel at moving him forward but vertically it's not supremely impressive. FADC is useless when recovering low because of the startup lag.

 

[Ulevo]

Why does Shoryuken have a truck of a hitbox in front of it? Makes spacing against him to force bad reactions impossible for non-disjoint characters.

 

[Blobface]

@ A2ZOMG Tipman murders Ryu out of everything.