Character Competitive Impressions

[Nobie]

Is twitch not loading properly for people? I've been trying to watch to m2k's twitch channel but its been buffering for at least 20 minutes. Is it just me and my ratchet internet connection? lol

Twitch for me isn't working at all. It won't load even the pages to get to streams, and I can't even log in.

 

[Pyr]

Is twitch not loading properly for people? I've been trying to watch to m2k's twitch channel but its been buffering for at least 20 minutes. Is it just me and my ratchet internet connection? lol

The streams at Sandstorm were all having massive issues yesterday, so I'd say it's not just you.

That said, noticed absolutely 0 problems with the Smash 4 stream in the hours I watched it yesterday.

 

[Cool]

Is twitch not loading properly for people? I've been trying to watch to m2k's twitch channel but its been buffering for at least 20 minutes. Is it just me and my ratchet internet connection? lol

No, all of the streams have actually been like this the entire tournament.

 

[Nobie]

It's not just Sandstorm streams for me though, it's everything. Not sure if everyone else is having this problem.

 

[Superbat]

@ Nobie Refreshed like 5 times and I can now watch the past broadcasts. Not even going attempt to watch the live stream lol.
For a while I couldn't go to any twitch stream. I'm pretty sure Twitch as a whole is having problems.

 

[Chuva]

My point of view Regarding 1.0.6 Diddy:

He still:
-Walls a large portion of the cast with Fair/Bair
-Excels at punishing defensive play with his mixups and options
-Has easy setups from Dtilt, Nair and Banana
-Gets respectable damage out of a throw/string and said strings are still easy to execute

Also:
-FSmash nerf is not that significant, considering most of the time Diddy is getting them for free out of a Banana hit-confirm
-He may have to work more to get kills but still has the tools to dominate the pace of the match and the setups to make kills happen (sure is Sheik around here)

And I believe the Rosalina MU is probably still in his favor, as the hitboxes that gives Rosa the most trouble (SHFF Fair, UAir and Monkey Flip) are mostly unchanged.

Monkey is still a top pick imo

 

[Superbat]

M2k's stream finally crashed. Hope they fix it quickly. Dam that was quick
LOOOL dude on stream is practicing pikachu's infinite. Also M2k uses Palutena and Brawler. This is going to be interesting. Psych diddy da bess. Pysch Brawler hype
A Marth is in top 8. Using Customs Up B with one that goes diagonally and allows marth to do follow ups from forward throw. cool stuff. @ Emblem Lord I don't play Marth at all dude. Cool seeing it for the first time though

 

[Emblem Lord]

M2k's stream finally crashed. Hope they fix it quickly. Dam that was quick
LOOOL dude on stream is practicing pikachu's infinite. Also M2k uses Palutena and Brawler. This is going to be interesting. Psych diddy da bess.
A Marth is in top 8. Using Customs Up B with one that goes diagonally and allows marth to do follow ups from forward throw. cool stuff

You are so late to the party, it hurts.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Okay, so it seems the next KTAR will have a Ledge Grab Limit of 25. I'm guessing this has to do with custom Villager, but beyond him, are there any other characters this could legitimately mess with in some way?


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[Antonykun]

Okay, so it seems the next KTAR will have a Ledge Grab Limit of 25. I'm guessing this has to do with custom Villager, but beyond him, are there any other characters this could legitimately mess with in some way?


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Who the heck is going to count 25 ledge grabs?!

 

[Pyr]

Who the heck is going to count 25 ledge grabs?!

I do believe the game does.

 

[Ffamran]

Who the heck is going to count 25 ledge grabs?!

Didn't GimR make an Up Smash counter bot a while ago? It might have been a joke since he spammed so many Up Smashes with Mr. Game & Watch at a S@X once.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Since this is the usual social thread to make comments on what's currently broken or should be banned while also talking about whatever is going on about Social media related stuff.
Let's talk about MVG for a bit.

What's going on at sandstorm, and why is samuraipanda giving the **** to M2k and zero?

 

[Djent]

A Marth is in top 8. Using Customs Up B with one that goes diagonally and allows marth to do follow ups from forward throw. cool stuff. @ Emblem Lord I don't play Marth at all dude. Cool seeing it for the first time though

Eh, it was bound to happen. The laws of the universe conspire to ensure that Z finishes 9th.

Anyway, Rain won Umebura, so if neither Nairo nor MVD wins Sandstorm, rumors of 's demise will have been exaggerated.

 

[BBC7]

I found something interesting last night, it turns out that G&W can get a D-Throw to U-Air combo on FD that's guaranteed and can kill against a large portion of the cast. Characters like Pikachu, Captain Falcon, Fox, ZSS, Diddy, Sheik, and Wario happen to be the most vulnerable, but it can still be done to Sonic and Rosalina. I'm wondering if this makes G&W a threat because the kill percents for this combo are no joke, starts at around 90%-100% which is deadly for a mere grab.

 

[Pyr]

Since this is the usual social thread to make comments on what's currently broken or should be banned while also talking about whatever is going on about Social media related stuff.
Let's talk about MVG for a bit.

What's going on at sandstorm, and why is samuraipanda giving the **** to M2k and zero?

Just want to point this out, as it may be one of the more unprofessional things I've seen in Smash: http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3361pi/mvg_sandstorm_and_m2k_zeros_team_name_dont_hate/

Ya, it's reddit. But it has sources in the comments for everything, so it's actually useful.

I found something interesting last night, it turns out that G&W can get a D-Throw to U-Air combo on FD that's guaranteed and can kill against a large portion of the cast. Characters like Pikachu, Captain Falcon, Fox, ZSS, Diddy, Sheik, and Wario happen to be the most vulnerable, but it can still be done to Sonic and Rosalina. I'm wondering if this makes G&W a threat because the kill percents for this combo are no joke, starts at around 90%-100% which is deadly for a mere grab.

Sounds nifty. Any video of it? How depending is it on DI and can a little Smash DI get you out of it, though?

 

[Sinister Slush]

Ya, it's reddit. But it has sources in the comments for everything, so it's actually useful.

Leddit is social media basically but with a function that'll downvote your comment to oblivion if it's an opinion not fitting their own or putting PM/Melee on a pedestal. So I'll take it, but was still hoping there was more going on outside of the petty team name.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

I found something interesting last night, it turns out that G&W can get a D-Throw to U-Air combo on FD that's guaranteed and can kill against a large portion of the cast. Characters like Pikachu, Captain Falcon, Fox, ZSS, Diddy, Sheik, and Wario happen to be the most vulnerable, but it can still be done to Sonic and Rosalina. I'm wondering if this makes G&W a threat because the kill percents for this combo are no joke, starts at around 90%-100% which is deadly for a mere grab.

GIMR's actually been doing this recently at Xanadu. I can't remember if it was last week's or the week before's but he was consistently landing it on somebody.

 

[BBC7]

Sounds nifty. Any video of it? How depending is it on DI and can a little Smash DI get you out of it, though?

It's not complicated to the point where you need a video for it. Training mode says it is a true combo so I'd assume it's not dependent on DI at all. As for SDI escaping, no clue but no one I've faced has done it. If it can't be SDI'd out of, Diddy is basically dead everytime he's grabbed at around 99%-110%.

 

[Pyr]

Leddit is social media basically but with a function that'll downvote your comment to oblivion if it's an opinion not fitting their own or putting PM/Melee on a pedestal. So I'll take it, but was still hoping there was more going on outside of the petty team name.

Well, ban-happy Twitch Mods (personally affected and saw this one), the M2K drama, stream quality and how the entire thing is being run... There is plenty of stuff wrong with Sandstorm at the moment. Joking about Autism while also forcing 2 big name players to use that joke as a team name is the thing that kind of makes me go, "Damn, man..." It's at the forefront for me.

 

[Blobface]

Okay, so it seems the next KTAR will have a Ledge Grab Limit of 25. I'm guessing this has to do with custom Villager, but beyond him, are there any other characters this could legitimately mess with in some way?


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I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, it's nice that we won't have to deal with that tactic again. On the other, is this really necessary to deal with Villagers ledge camping?

 

[Patriot Duck]

I get the feeling a limit of 25 ledge grabs may be a little too strict. Seems like something you might exceed normally. Does anyone have an idea what the average amount of ledge grabs per game is?

 

[Teshie U]

EVO isnt going to have a LGL so i dont see the point.

 

[Superbat]

Kudos to MVD for taking A GAME OFF ZEROOO. DIDDY DITTOS TOO. This sandstorm is pretty hype right now. Toxic chat wanting Zero to lose is bad though.

 

[Ulevo]

Kudos to MVD for taking A GAME OFF ZEROOO. DIDDY DITTOS TOO. This sandstorm is pretty hype right now. Toxic chat wanting Zero to lose is bad though.

I don't understand why Zero gets a bad rep. The guy puts in a solid effort in to the game, he has very valuable videos trying to teach people how to play (which is more than I can say for most top players), his attitude is always optimistic, and he just loves playing some Smash. The guy pulls out Falcon in Grand Finals. Hopefully peep's cut him some slack over time.

 

[HeroMystic]

I don't understand why Zero gets a bad rep. The guy puts in a solid effort in to the game, he has very valuable videos trying to teach people how to play (which is more than I can say for most top players), his attitude is always optimistic, and he just loves playing some Smash. The guy pulls out Falcon in Grand Finals. Hopefully peep's cut him some slack over time.

He's the villain that everyone wants to beat.

I personally see him as the king.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Just want to point this out, as it may be one of the more unprofessional things I've seen in Smash: http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3361pi/mvg_sandstorm_and_m2k_zeros_team_name_dont_hate/

Ya, it's reddit. But it has sources in the comments for everything, so it's actually useful.

I'm glad I made a good thread and @ Sinister Slush if you check out the other sticky thread I got up you can see some of the other issues though @ Pyr pretty much nailed it.

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, it's nice that we won't have to deal with that tactic again. On the other, is this really necessary to deal with Villagers ledge camping?

This is really what I am interested in, and if this may somehow nerf other characters accidentally somehow.[/quote]

 

[Ffamran]

He's the villain that everyone wants to beat.

I personally see him as the king.

Nah, ZeRo's more of a male model with that scarf. Raawr.

Related to the topic of this thread, Vinnie got screwed by Sheik's weakened Bair and Mike Kirby was able to survive with full rage. Yeah, it does change her usage of Bair to something different which from what I remember people saying would be more combo like. If I remember correctly, Zex chained three Bairs during the recent Come on and Ban #15? into Bouncing Fish. In a way, it reminds me of people wondering what would happen if Diddy's Uair was nerfed and allowed him to chain even more Uairs because of the lowered knockback.

 

[DunnoBro]

EVO isnt going to have a LGL so i dont see the point.

Villager is by far the closest thing to "broken" so even if it's legal for EVO, I think it's best if people get discouraged from using it as a long-term strategy, and the LGL should be common-place after EVO.

Currently, the only consistent answers to the ledgestalling is character-specific and some are pretty janky. (Many of which require giving them their 15 seconds while waiting out the sapling)

It's definitely not likely to win EVO or anything, but it is an abusable gimmick that is toxic for the early start of an already shaky meta.

It also is technically possible to do this in default with lucario by switching between the ledges against characters who can't cover enough raw ground quick enough to punish it. (ganon, robin, peach, etc) So it's not like this would only fix issues brought by customs, it's just easier to do with villager.

And no, the ledge grab limit of 25 will pretty much never interfere with general play. Even including unneeded ledge trump attempts, ledge cancels, and general ledge play, players don't seem to exceed 10 ledge grabs per stock often. And I've never seen them exceed 25 at mid-high level play. (though my data source is only games that went to time at apex)

This will however, effect low level play with players who don't understand ledge mechanics. Those are the only ones I've seen people go past 25. (Due to the opponent for some reason not taking their free punish when they regrab, and people abuse this)

I don't understand why Zero gets a bad rep. The guy puts in a solid effort in to the game, he has very valuable videos trying to teach people how to play (which is more than I can say for most top players), his attitude is always optimistic, and he just loves playing some Smash. The guy pulls out Falcon in Grand Finals. Hopefully peep's cut him some slack over time.

The average player doesn't like objective play.

I wish there were more players out there like Zero and m2k trying to push the meta to it's limit to see what's actually the best. Especially when if the best is proven "broken" nintendo can fix it. If other characters can't function in an objective environment, they can fix that too.

 

[thehard]

So that Doubles GF

I love ZeRo

 

[Nobie]

I've started to believe that it takes all sorts of people to push a game's competitiveness. The person who's willing to devote blood, sweat, and tears to Lucina because she's their dream girl is in a way just as important as the people who pick the best characters because the former are willing to push a character beyond what is "common sense" and the latter are there to truly put a game to the test.

 

[LiteralGrill]

It's definitely not likely to win EVO or anything, but it is an abusable gimmick that is toxic for the early start of an already shaky meta.

I dunno if this is the job of the rules to try and fix that though, if you wanna have customs on and it unfortunately has something really bad possible, too bad play the game yo decided to play ESPECIALLY if it's not Evo win worthy kind of stuff.

And no, the ledge grab limit of 25 will pretty much never interfere with general play. Even including unneeded ledge trump attempts, ledge cancels, and general ledge play, players don't seem to exceed 10 ledge grabs per stock often. And I've never seen them exceed 25 at mid-high level play.

This also bugs me a ton, it COULD happen. All it takes is one epic tight match between two characters with one not a custom Villager to be decided when the rule is only even there for one character to just plain ruin the hype. I dunno if there is a character really hurt by this much, I'd have to look into it a bit, but I dunno the LGL bothers me a lot. If you wanna play with customs on, take everything that comes with it.

Also, lemme just say how sad it is that there is so custom set with the Pika infinite at Evo. I already saw some stream matches with folks figuring out the thunder wave by itself today and making it work, it sucks that something decided months back in a meta before a patch is going to mess with Evo like that and make us miss out on full meta potential.

 

[Radical Larry]

I don't see why people believe Link is still 'bad'. He's got some very heavy projectile game that gives you so much reward of damage if you do it right, and even if he doesn't have some 'effective' meteors aside from Meteor Bomb, he can still hold his own pretty well.

He has a great air game, coupled with an insane ground game, among the best projectile games by far (next to Villager), and a good recovery overall. His Bombs are the things you need to use in order to get the best out of him, as they can link up into an array of his attacks, if not all of them; consider them like his honorary down throw option, since it just leads up into complete chaos.

His D-Air is also one of the more dangerous D-Air attacks, since it can hit opponents from 0% to 43% in one D-Air > U-Air combo. He's also got the safest U-Air in the game, and the only U-Air in the came that can actually hit you no matter if you air dodge or not (if you air dodge at the beginning of the attack, you'll get hit).

With Customs, Link becomes a whole new character.

 

[Teshie U]

If we going down this road again with ledge play being limited, I think I'll have to hop of the train.

If customs need an LGL, its basically admitting defeat. Between the patch fixing diddy, DLC characters not having customs and stuff like this. I don't see customs surviving long past EVO.

 

[Superbat]

MY PREDICTION OF M2K BRAWLER WAS RIGHT LOL. HARD READS

 

[Ffamran]

I've started to believe that it takes all sorts of people to push a game's competitiveness. The person who's willing to devote blood, sweat, and tears to Lucina because she's their dream girl is in a way just as important as the people who pick the best characters because the former are willing to push a character beyond what is "common sense" and the latter are there to truly put a game to the test.

Let's see, San's credited for Brawl Ike, Espy is credited for Brawl Sonic, Larry Lurr's credited for Fox's Jab cancel, aMSa is credited for Greninja, Abadango for Pac-Man, Ken for Melee Marth, Professor Pro and/or Rolex is credited for PM Snake, 6wX for Sonic's aggressive play, Ito for Meta Knight, ESAM for Pikachu?, and wasn't Leffen credited for Diddy or was it Jtails? Yeah, you need someone, someone extraordinary to push characters beyond and make it look worth it. Hell, one person alone can make games look amazing - Sam D did this for DmC: Devil May Cry.

Even then, people won't do much. Ito was able to take a match off of ZeRo - who might or might not have played to learn Ito's game plan - as Meta Knight. That's just for the masses, but for Meta Knight players, Ito has done more than enough to delve into Meta Knight's metagame. People have hopped on the Luigi bandwagon, but Luigi as with all characters aren't pick up and play at a high level. You can't pick Luigi and expect to win because someone's Luigi beat Diddy. You have to understand why J. Miller was able to beat that Diddy; you have to understand Luigi.

Once again, on another note, the slow Aura Sphere looks like a pain in the *** to deal with while at the ledge. It's so freaking slow. Mike Kirby's 4 Upper Cutter catches were hilarious and made even more hilarious when John just bopped him to the blast zone. One of the commentator said that it probably staled, but even then, it put Lucario so close to the blast zone. As for Meteor Stone, I'm going to assume it makes it more read heavy than regular Stone, right?

MY PREDICTION OF M2K BRAWLER WAS RIGHT LOL

I didn't want to say much because there's two awesome streams going on, but if you all don't mind, could you at least mention how the characters are performing and not just talk about the players?

 

[DunnoBro]

I don't see why adding a LGL would be admitting defeat. It deals with the issue of one custom combination. It speaks nothing on customs as a whole.

If adding a LGL is admitting defeat, then the concept of banning stages or infinites in any other smash game is admitting defeat too.

 

[BBC7]

Still can't get over G&W having a guaranteed kill over a 92% Sheik. That's basically around 9 dash attacks and she's done. This might actually be part of the patch because I don't remember D-Throw to U-Air ever killing reliably.

 

[Blobface]

I would like to mention that the ledge grab limit only applies if the time runs out.

 

[Ffamran]

Still can't get over G&W having a guaranteed kill over a 92% Sheik. That's basically around 9 dash attacks and she's done. This might actually be part of the patch because I don't remember D-Throw to U-Air ever killing reliably.

Nope, GimR pulled this off before the patch. People asked GimR, I don't remember if TKbreezy or Logic or whoever asked him since I think it happened 1-2 weeks ago, but GimR's voice wasn't really caught, so it wasn't really confirmed if was a guaranteed setup, but the commentators kept mentioning and wondering if it was guaranteed. I'm not sure if the matches have been uploaded yet and I don't follow Mr. Game & Watch much. I wonder if Shaya knows...