Character Competitive Impressions

[NairWizard]

He made a hard read, and was able to charge it for like half a second. This is like complaining about someone landing a turnaround Falcon Punch read.

They're not even remotely similar situations.

Falcon misses a turnaround Falcon Punch and gets f-smashed. Pikachu misses Heavy Skull Bash and gets, what, dash grabbed? Dedede might even be too slow for that.

Heavy Skull Bash's risk:reward ratio is very skewed in Pikachu's favor, but on top of that, it's really easy to set up situations where Heavy Skull Bash is likely to land. On the other hand, it's really hard to set up situations where Falcon Punch is likely to land (you can do the bait an airdodge from d-throw thing I guess). I've killed a Diddy with an uncharged Heavy Skull Bash at 35% offstage on Smashville just by intercepting his side-b recovery. No way that Falcon Punch can do anything like that.

I understand your desire to defend customs, and I'm not necessarily attacking them, but the moves that you are comparing don't lend themselves to comparison. They're also on completely different characters. Falcon has terrible disadvantaged state and has a tall profile, while Pikachu has one of the best disadvantaged states in the game and a short, small profile, so the risk:reward ratios are inherently different.

 

[David Viran]

All these players using customs and yet zero is most likley going to win with default moves.

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

Metaknight got such half-***** customs compared to the rest of the roster, it's kinda sad.

Eh, it should have been expected I guess. Sakurai implemented MK into Smash so poorly it's kinda sad. MK is some legendary swordsman that carries an ultimate-powered sword, yet the sword does like 3% every hit and is the size of a toothpick. He can't even use any of his fancy special attacks, instead swinging his sword around like an idiot. The only move he has that's proper for the character is Dimensional Cape, lol.

Idk, MK would be pretty busted if he could use the projectiles he used in Squeak Squad (namely that tornado move that was nearly impossible to dodge). The other projectiles were flame waves that he could aim. Drill Rush seems to be based on the Master Sword drill attack from Amazing Mirror, and Mach Tornado is one of his attacks from Kirby Super Star (and is controlled like Kirby's Tornado ability). Additionally n-air is the aerial attack option for Sword Kirby and Meta Knight in Nightmare in Dream Land. F-air and b-air resemble MK's attack in Air Ride (not the spinning attack, the one that is done automatically when MK is near another racer). I don't think MK actually uses his cape offensively in the games.

Sorry I play a lot of Kirby games.

 

[Blobface]

I'd suggest not using specific kills as examples to show a move is broken. It's very anecdotal and there's way too many variables to account for. I once killed the heavy, fast-falling Ganondorf at 51% with Dark Fists, but that doesn't show the move is broken.

And once again, make sure you account for everything. There are plenty of customs that seemed god-tier at first but lost their luster as their drawbacks became more apparent.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I'd suggest not using specific kills as examples to show a move is broken. It's very anecdotal and there's way too many variables to account for. I once killed the heavy, fast-falling Ganondorf at 51% with Dark Fists, but that doesn't show the move is broken.

And once again, make sure you account for everything. There are plenty of customs that seemed god-tier at first but lost their luster as their drawbacks became more apparent.

Plenty of default specials too. I remember a lot of doom and gloom about Mac's KO punch.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

They're not even remotely similar situations.

Yeah, you're right. Sorry, stupid comparison.

 

[NairWizard]

I'd suggest not using specific kills as examples to show a move is broken. It's very anecdotal and there's way too many variables to account for. I once killed the heavy, fast-falling Ganondorf at 51% with Dark Fists, but that doesn't show the move is broken.

And once again, make sure you account for everything. There are plenty of customs that seemed god-tier at first but lost their luster as their drawbacks became more apparent.

This is fair, but you have to consider the character too. Ganondorf already has KO power on basically every move that he has.
On the other hand, Pikachu is a character who is designed to get you to 180% with his crazy lagless strings and then die at 60%. You can't escape damage vs. Pikachu; QA + ground speed + autocanceling, quick aerials makes it really, really hard. But in exchange for this, Pikachu has to basically land a read up-smash or an edgeguard to kill most other characters.

I'm not calling Heavy Skull Bash broken, necessarily (heck, Pikachu in customs on may be worse than he is in customs off, because so many recoveries become hard to edgeguard), but it is on the wrong character. I'd rather see it on Ike or someone than on Pikachu.

My disgust comes more from confusion at the illogical design choice than from any kind of aversion to dying at low percents.

Also, love watching customs Palutena. Wish more people played her.

 

[Blobface]

That makes sense.

I'd rather see it on Ike or someone than on Pikachu.

When I read this, I literally imagined Ike doing Skull Bash.

 

[ZarroTsu]

Unless the Mewtwo patch fails to remove it, I'm still fairly certain Heavy Skull Bash's ability to earn charge from entry as a smash attack is an oversight. Hopefully not for long.

Would it still be broken if you absolutely needed to charge it for it to get the kill at all?

 

[Quickhero]

When I read this, I literally imagined Ike doing Skull Bash.

Well, to give you credit. Ike gained Close Combat as his side-b and it buffed him significantly. So hey, if Ike can get a Pokemon move, why not Skull Bash?

 

[Djent]

is like last game: look really cool, still narrowly lose.

Hoping that changes tonight though.

 

[Blobface]

The beginning of the Rosa vs Rosa match was beautiful. That is all.

 

[thehard]

Still don't get how people find Rosalina unfun to watch :\

 

[ParanoidDrone]

The beginning of the Rosa vs Rosa match was beautiful. That is all.

I'm honestly impressed that Iggy beat Dabuz in the Rosalina ditto. That was real good stuff and I put it down to the fact that Iggy took every opportunity to swat away Luma, sometimes at the cost of going after Rosalina herself. Since Dabuz relies heavily on using Luma to space, I think that kept him a fair bit off balance.

 

[Blobface]

Still don't get how people find Rosalina unfun to watch :\

The only matches I don't like watching are some of Sheiks more uneven matchups. It's basically Sheik slapping around a character for 5 minutes before the other character lands some random F-smash and she dies. Even those are okay.

 

[thehard]

The only matches I don't like watching are some of Sheiks more uneven matchups. It's basically Sheik slapping around a character for 5 minutes before the other character lands some random F-smash and she dies. Even those are okay.

Same, but I actually think even Sheik matchups and dittos are some of the most interesting in the game. A lot of it has to do with Sheik's metagame being so developed at this point. Maybe even the most developed?

 

[Djent]

Prediction: HSB will be really silly in doubles.

 

[ZarroTsu]

Okay honest question why does Diddy's sideB have escalating knockback?

 

[HeavyLobster]

The only matches I don't like watching are some of Sheiks more uneven matchups. It's basically Sheik slapping around a character for 5 minutes before the other character lands some random F-smash and she dies. Even those are okay.

The only matches I don't like are those where a certain psycho child hides behind a sapling and slingshots you to death.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Prediction: HSB will be really silly in doubles.

I get the impression that a lot of stuff gets silly in doubles.

 

[Antonykun]

The only matches I don't like are those where a certain psycho child hides behind a sapling and slingshots you to death.

Two words meteor stone

 

[Djent]

Going off of that last post, I think doubles actually has more potential for custom jank than singles does. For example, Heavy Skull Bash is really good in a singles format already. But in doubles and incorporated into team combos? That is something I'm scared of. Like, how about teaming with and using it to hit opponents buried by Hammer Spin Dash? Ugghhh that kind of makes me sick to my stomach actually.

But perhaps even worse are the seemingly pointless moves which suddenly gain insane utility. Heavenly Light, which is a horrible pick for singles, can apparently heal for some ungodly (60ish?) %. So now you have this dude with a kill throw teaming with a wench who kills pre-70%, and they've got a healing strategy.

 

[Teshie U]

Buried opponents taken half knockback. But I see what you are talking about.

Doubles has always been a place where anything could work. Won't necessarily be viable but it could be possible.

Villager and GnW already summon up easy 1 hit KOs by abusing moves meant to be counterattacks, I don't think we will see much more jank than that. Overall, in doubles you want an overall good character that can scoop up kills in any situation anyway. Diddy Kong is one of the best because he can Uair people flying in his direction easily and already has a good spacing game.

Sacrificing using a good character to gain access to a gimmick has never been more viable than just using good characters.

Heavenly light is still terrible. If you are using such an unsafe move to heal ness, they can just go straight for palutena and kill her.

I'm sure many of the "power" versions of customs would be useful in doubles especially if they replace otherwise useless attacks like skull bash (im aware it helps his godlike recovery).

 

[ZarroTsu]

So, Diddy dittos with customs on.

I'm wondering if a good mix-up would be to swap your banana peel to one of the other ones, to mess with the other Diddy?

 

[Sinister Slush]

Why go customs diddy when vanilla diddy is strong enough already.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

So, Diddy dittos with customs on.

I'm wondering if a good mix-up would be to swap your banana peel to one of the other ones, to mess with the other Diddy?

That would depend heavily on the utility of the other peels compared to default. Somehow I expect default will still be the most useful overall.

 

[thehard]

Those Diddos definitely had more move variety than the last one I saw. Probably due to ZeRo.

 

[Djent]

Battering Banana Peel is somewhat legit, but yeah I honestly still think default is the best.

 

[ZarroTsu]

Well I mean you'd have the utility of the opponent Diddy's default peels. I'm pretty sure the custom peels look the same. So is this something that could be used to your advantage?

 

[Teshie U]

They dont look the same.

 

[ZarroTsu]

Well now I feel silly.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Someone on Twitch suggested 'HALLELU-HAH" as a name for Palutena's dthrow > uair shenanigans. All in favor?

EDIT: And I suppose similar things like dthrow > nair > uair and Super Speed > stuff.

 

[thehard]

Aerolink confirmed front page of r/smashbros

Someone on Twitch suggested 'HALLELU-HAH" as a name for Palutena's dthrow > uair shenanigans. All in favor?

EDIT: And I suppose similar things like dthrow > nair > uair and Super Speed > stuff.

People use Robo-HOO-HAH for ROB but I feel H00-H4H has more flavor...because he's a robot?

 

[Project Quarantine]

I'm going to a custom local tournament in my area with mii brawler custom 2122 tomorrow. In my opinion, brawler with customs and minimum weight mii is second to Diddy in this game. It has the air speed of yoshi with almost all aerials completely lagless. In addition, brawler has one of the best moves in the game, custom up b 2. This move is extremely fast as an Out of sheild option, and it kills around 120% in the middle and as early as 30% near the edge of the blast zone. I haven't gone into exact frame data, so is anyone here knowledgable with brawler and feels as though he has immense potential?

 

[thehard]

Really didn't expect Denti to take that. Going off ZeRo at APEX and Jtails recently it seems safe to say Dabuz struggles in the Diddy MU.

 

[DarkBlueSpark]

Can Diddy actually make good use of his customs, or is he like Yoshi, meaning he doesn't benefit from them at all?

Is it necessary to main a top tier character (or at least who we currently consider top tier) to do well in tournaments? I guess it'd be easier, I'm just having trouble against other people with my main Kirby.

 

[19_]

Someone on Twitch suggested 'HALLELU-HAH" as a name for Palutena's dthrow > uair shenanigans. All in favor?

EDIT: And I suppose similar things like dthrow > nair > uair and Super Speed > stuff.

I like Ho Halleluya better. Speaking of which I need to to pick up this character. I've been in the lab with her for a while but thanks to this tournament I think she deserves more work.

Great tournament BTW.

 

[Neoleo21]

ZeRo's C. Falcon demolished Denti's diddy. Sheik was a bit harder though. His skill is through the roof. Diddy just seems like a weird match up against the Cap

 

[David Viran]

Did zero just say he thinks diddy is the best character?

 

[ZarroTsu]

Is it necessary to main a top tier character (or at least who we currently consider top tier) to do well in tournaments? I guess it'd be easier,

It's hardly necessary to main a "top tier" to do well. It's far more necessary to main a character who can defeat those "top tiers"

Diddy's simply capable of rolling both. Oh if only there were a character that could do well against top tiers like Diddy and Rosalina... Totally not Mii Sword, beating dead horse.