Character Competitive Impressions

[Smooth Criminal]

I don't claim to be an expert on the Arcsys fighters, but I have a friend who is obsessed with them (he's one of the best SLab players in the US for P4A) and he was linking me to a bunch of videos of some crazy Japanese Potemkin player tearing everyone up. I'm pretty sure this is the guy, though this probably isn't the exact video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0INxOArkC24

Still looks pretty scary to me. Ganon would love to have the ability to cancel Wizard Foot into neutral or something.

That guy, FAB? Best Potemkin player in the world? Holds that same sentiment that Pot is bottom tier in this game, and has mentioned similar things that I just did.

Sooooooooooo

While Ganon would love to have something like that, just imagine if everybody else in the game had a similar ability, but they have a better and more threatening kit overall. That is Potemkin's situation right now.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Seagull Joe]

Hey yall. It's been awhile since I offered any opinions toward smash 4 publicly. My tier list impressions thus far (These characters are just tier locations, but not a specific order. I'm assuming you can choose 1111, 2222, or 3333 for the mii's):

Top


High


Mid High


Mid


Mid Low


Low


Bottom

 

[Terotrous]

While Ganon would love to have something like that, just imagine if everybody else in the game had a similar ability, but they have a better and more threatening kit overall. That is Potemkin's situation right now.

I actually think that if there was a global mechanic that allowed Ganon to get in, even if it also allowed other characters to have scary mixups or something, he might still be better for it. It's always better to get in than to get walled out.

What I'm seeing out of Potemkin just looks much more viable overall. He has a definite neutral game. Outclassed maybe, but not invalidated.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I MOSTLY AGREE!

I'm not sold on WFT or Zelda though.

 

[HeroMystic]

I also mostly agree, but I am interested in why Sonic isn't part of the Top tier crew.

I expect the official tier list to be something similar to what @ Seagull Joe posted.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I also mostly agree, but I am interested in why Sonic isn't part of the Top tier crew.

I expect the official tier list to be something similar to what @ Seagull Joe posted.

I just don't think has as good of tools as the 4 above him. He's good, but he doesn't have any super powerful kill moves or recovery compared to the 4 above him. , , and can all kill under 100% more reliably. is just generally safer whenever she wants to be. The top tier all have projectile camping ability as well. If had a projectile like the 4 above him (I don't count spring lol) then he'd be in top tier. He HAS to approach all characters generally.

 

[Ulevo]

Hey yall. It's been awhile since I offered any opinions toward smash 4 publicly. My tier list impressions thus far (These characters are just tier locations, but not a specific order. I'm assuming you can choose 1111, 2222, or 3333 for the mii's):

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Mid High











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Bottom

I feel like Peach and Pac Man deserve to be in high. I don't think Greninja is a very good character at all, but that's me. I also feel Jiggs has potential to be higher also. Pretty good list though.

 

[StripedNinja]

Hey yall. It's been awhile since I offered any opinions toward smash 4 publicly. My tier list impressions thus far (These characters are just tier locations, but not a specific order. I'm assuming you can choose 1111, 2222, or 3333 for the mii's):

Top





High













Mid High











Mid














Mid Low






Low






Bottom

There are a few things I could nitpick, like I don't really think Pikachu is top tier, ESAM just makes him look really good, and I probably would put sonic at the top, he does have to approach but he never really has any issues, and he is just rediculously fast, obviously. Also, though I love him, I'm not sure if Megaman is high tier material. Still, this seems to be a very well thought out list.

 

[Terotrous]

I was also going to say that I mostly agreed but the more I read it the more issues I had with it. In the end I think I'll just post my own list. Why not, last chance to be wrong before Apex.


Not ordered. Miis are assumed to have all customs available. All others have customs off. Hopefully I didn't forget any characters.


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[Seagull Joe]

There are a few things I could nitpick, like I don't really think Pikachu is top tier, ESAM just makes him look really good, and I probably would put sonic at the top. Also, though I love him, I'm not sure if Megaman is high tier material. Still, this seems to be a very well thought out list.

is actually insanely stupid. The inability to DI his moves makes him so annoying. Nakat just beat Mr-R yesterday with 2-0 in tourney. I doubt he's used the character for very long either LMFAO.

is debatably high tier. He's just a projectile wall of pestilence. He could be mid high, but nothing lower.

I already stated my reasons above for why isn't top tier.

I feel like Peach and Pac Man deserve to be in high. I don't think Greninja is a very good character at all, but that's me. I also feel Jiggs has potential to be higher also. Pretty good list though.

is still debatable as well. He's either mid high or mid. The original was top tier without question. :

still lacks abilities due to being slow. She's not high tier. She can't force approaches easily or kill without heavy baits.

has so much potential. I could see him going to high tier in the future. If only he had reliable kill setups.
I'll wait till does anything if ever to move her up on my list.

I was also going to say that I mostly agreed but the more I read it the more issues I had with it. In the end I think I'll just post my own list. Why not, last chance to be wrong before Apex.
Not ordered. Miis are assumed to have all customs available. All others have customs off. Hopefully I didn't forget any characters.
Top:

High:

Mid:

Low:

Bottom:

This list is bad.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

That pretty much sums it up. Characters that can really stunt his approach really hurt him too. Think Sheik with needles, ZSS with her mobility which is better than Sonic's, Rosalina has Luma which really hurts, Luigi who can mess with him due to priority, active frames and his obnoxious nair. There's a few others in random spots like Lucario and Megaman who probably beat him pretty well too. Out of the super relevant matchups I think he mainly has an advantage on Yoshi and Diddy. Then he goes even with or beats the rest of the roster I think.

People are apparently underrating Megaman still. He is really good. Pikachu is also clearly good. ESAM may make it obvious but Pikachu still clearly has the tools even if you don't have ESAM level reads.

 

[Nobie]

is debatably high tier. He's just a projectile wall of pestilence. He could be mid high, but nothing lower.

I find it interesting just how often Mega Man is listed as high tier, if only because he's designed with very clear weaknesses in mind. I assume this means that you consider his projectile game to be just that danged good, and that even if he has a bad matchup it's still not hopeless.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Curious on your thoughts for Captain Falcon and Wario.

 

[Terotrous]

This list is bad.

Funny you should say that since I actually used your list as a baseline, lol. Oh, and by the way, your list is missing ROB.


In general I will admit that my list is super safe. I'm not giving much credibility to characters who have yet to prove themselves to be dangerous, though arguably based on this Peach and Falco should both move down one.

 

[warionumbah2]

As usual MK is slap bang in the middle.

 

[Smog Frog]

@ Seagull Joe , is there any particular reason you have zelda in mid?

 

[StripedNinja]

is actually insanely stupid. The inability to DI his moves makes him so annoying. Nakat just beat Mr-R yesterday with 2-0 in tourney. I doubt he's used the character for very long either LMFAO.

is debatably high tier. He's just a projectile wall of pestilence. He could be mid high, but nothing lower.

I already stated my reasons above for why isn't top tier.

is still debatable as well. He's either mid high or mid. The original was top tier without question. :

still lacks abilities due to being slow. She's not high tier. She can't force approaches easily or kill without heavy baits.

has so much potential. I could see him going to high tier in the future. If only he had reliable kill setups.
I'll wait till does anything if ever to move her up on my list.

This list is bad.

I actually didn't know you couldn't DI Pika's moves! I'll look more into him.

 

[mimgrim]

Hey yall. It's been awhile since I offered any opinions toward smash 4 publicly. My tier list impressions thus far (These characters are just tier locations, but not a specific order. I'm assuming you can choose 1111, 2222, or 3333 for the mii's):

Top





High













Mid High











Mid














Mid Low






Low






Bottom

That bottom tier Pidgeot doe.

I am curious though. If Miis were allowed their full customization (meaning any move combination and what weight/height they want) would any of them change their places in your list? Namely Gunner.

Also think that Zard is sleeper high tier but this thread isn't ready for that yet.

 

[Terotrous]

@ Seagull Joe , is there any particular reason you have zelda in mid?

I'm equally curious on Kirby in mid. He also seems like he's easily among the worst and doesn't really have any solid results to justify that kind of placing.

 

[san.]

is way above the bottom rung. Top tier projectiles, decent speed, great range, and consistent kills, but relatively poor in raw power.

 

[StripedNinja]

That bottom tier Pidgeot doe.

I am curious though. If Miis were allowed their full customization (meaning any move combination and what weight/height they want) would any of them change their places in your list? Namely Gunner.

Also think that Zard is sleeper high tier but this thread isn't ready for that yet.

Well your probably have to include all customs at that point, which would change the balance entirely

 

[mimgrim]

is way above the bottom rung. Top tier projectiles, decent speed, great range, consistent kills though relatively poor in raw power.

Well given how he said 1111, 2222, 3333 only for his list (and I presume that also means average height/weight only as well to) I ca kinda see Gunner being on the lower end of the roster.

Well your probably have to include all customs at that point, which would change the balance entirely

Miis don't require the "Customs" toggle to be turned on to use their full customization. You don't have to include customs at that point at all as a result.

 

[StripedNinja]

I'm equally curious on Kirby in mid. He also seems like he's easily among the worst and doesn't really have any solid results to justify that kind of placing.

He has really good recovery and almost no lag on his aerials, as far as strengths. I know he has a lot of weaknesses but just thought I'd point that out.

 

[Terotrous]

He has really good recovery and almost no lag on his aerials, as far as strengths. I know he has a lot of weaknesses but just thought I'd point that out.

I don't know if his recovery is actually "really good" without Upper Cutter, due to the way his ledge snaps work. His recovery is pretty predictable in general too and poor air speed doesn't help.

 

[StripedNinja]

Well given how he said 1111, 2222, 3333 only for his list (and I presume that also means average height/weight only as well to) I ca kinda see Gunner being on the lower end of the roster.



Miis don't require the "Customs" toggle to be turned on to use their full customization. You don't have to include customs at that point at all as a result.

It's not really about the toggle and more what I would think to be allowed in tournaments, but that's just my opinion

 

[StripedNinja]

I don't know if his recovery is actually "really good" without Upper Cutter, due to the way his ledge snaps work. His recovery is pretty predictable in general too and poor air speed doesn't help.

Well I might agree except for he does have uppercutter, plus with all his jumps I feel like he can mix it up quite a bit

 

[⑨ball]

I'm equally curious on Kirby in mid. He also seems like he's easily among the worst and doesn't really have any solid results to justify that kind of placing.

Kirby does pretty decent against a surprising number of the cast. Have you heard of MikeKirby?

@ Seagull Joe , is there any particular reason you have zelda in mid?

If I had to guess, the same reason Pit and Dark Pit are so high.
Shoutouts to Nairo

 

[Terotrous]

Well I might agree except for he does have uppercutter

Not in customs off, though. In Customs on he's more viable, but customs on is so untested I don't feel confident about placing anyone.

Kirby does pretty decent against a surprising number of the cast. Have you heard of MikeKirby?

I have, but I feel that his matchups against most high tiers are really bad, which is really never a good look.

 

[HeroMystic]

Pikachu is definitely a very potent character and nearly everyone who has frequented this thread has been waiting for his inevitable rise. If you saw ESAM vs M2K, M2K was definitely as a loss as to how to not be gimped by ESAM's Pikachu (in his interview he said he just randomly used Up-B to recover stupidly because he knew ESAM wouldn't expect it).

I believe MikeKirby frequently goes Kirby and consistently hits Top 8 in his local scene.

 

[Seagull Joe]

@ Seagull Joe , is there any particular reason you have zelda in mid?

Lack of approach, but good kill abilities. Without Nairo, this character would be trash.

Funny you should say that since I actually used your list as a baseline, lol. Oh, and by the way, your list is missing ROB.


In general I will admit that my list is super safe. I'm not giving much credibility to characters who have yet to prove themselves to be dangerous, though arguably based on this Peach and Falco should both move down one.

Added . Forgot him some how.

is way above the bottom rung. Top tier projectiles, decent speed, great range, and consistent kills, but relatively poor in raw power.

Welcome back to the game San! I missed you.

I do think is either mid low or mid tier at best. It just so slow and lacks kill setups.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Are you still taking questions/comments, @ Seagull Joe ? 'Cause I'm wondering...why do you feel D3 sits at the top of mid? I don't disagree (per se, I'd knock him down a couple of pegs in that tier) but I'm just curious as to your thoughts.

whoops missed the "un-ordered" memo

Still, I wanna know how you feel about D3.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Nobie]

Pikachu is definitely a very potent character and nearly everyone who has frequented this thread has been waiting for his inevitable rise. If you saw ESAM vs M2K, M2K was definitely as a loss as to how to not be gimped by ESAM's Pikachu (in his interview he said he just randomly used Up-B to recover stupidly because he knew ESAM wouldn't expect it).

I believe MikeKirby frequently goes Kirby and consistently hits Top 8 in his local scene.

Mew2King also said that Zero advised him to always recover high because Pikachu's gimping game depends on low recoveries.

 

[HeavyLobster]

If we're going to do tier lists, here's my random assorted thoughts based mainly on what everyone else is saying that have no real significance but give people an excuse to complain. This is the no-customs meta. I'm not counting Miis because I don't have enough experience with them. Also note that whenever I'm not sure about a character's placement I just put it somewhere in C tier.
S:
A+:
A:
A-:
B:
C:
D:
E:

 

[Conda]

Is there any greninja or toon link representation?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I think Jash plays at NLBC. No clue on Greninja.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Sniff the bottom tier samus. T.T its okay girl ur just missunderstood people will understand ur mid tier one day.

 

[san.]

Lack of approach, but good kill abilities. Without Nairo, this character would be trash.

Added . Forgot him some how.

Welcome back to the game San! I missed you.

I do think is either mid low or mid tier at best. It just so slow and lacks kill setups.

Thanks! I was off for a few years. Hope to prove people wrong once a tourney lets me use him.

 

[Terotrous]

If we're going to do tier lists, here's my random assorted thoughts based mainly on what everyone else is saying that have no real significance but give people an excuse to complain. This is the no-customs meta. I'm not counting Miis because I don't have enough experience with them. Also note that whenever I'm not sure about a character's placement I just put it somewhere in C tier.

This one is much closer to my own thoughts. I also noticed I was missing Lucario.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Thanks! I was off for a few years. Hope to prove people wrong once a tourney lets me use him.

Thats always my ambition 2. i just happen to have little travel money.
my local scene is decent but i only every get teh challenges that mean something from big tourny's like the come up. or when toronto joe decides to randomly show up at a local. xd

 

[Ulevo]

Can someone actually explain to me why Greninja is even remotely decent? I'll admit I'm ignorant to the advanced intricacies of the character, but I just don't see what this character has going for it. From what I can tell it has problems with KO's, it doesn't have a combo game, a poor projectile game. I mean, the characters fast, but what does it actually do with that speed? Every time I watch a Greninja in tournament, it's just them running around, throwing the occasional Shuriken, and having to commit to very unsafe tactics for no reward. Reminds me heavily of a Brawl character.