I feel like they went about the nerfs kinda wrong. I feel like if they made Cyclone easier to SDI/Escape and made the setup more dependent on reading DI rather than just axing it outright it would've been a lot better. Maybe give him some more meaningful stuff outside of D-Throw that's relevant? But they ultimately relegate him to fishing for kills except his mobility and mixups are very lackluster in this regard and his USmash actually gets weaker on the later frames, among other things.
I don't disagree with the notion, I disagree with the execution.
I suppose Nintendo has their reasons for nerfing Cyclone's knockback and hitlag (Try to trap both Rosalina and Luma in it and get lol'd).
D-throw has been significantly increased in growth, this means Luigi will send them much father high up than before. Meanwhile, HooHahNado is still real around 90% to 110%.
Imagine a Cyclone with 1.0x hitlag modifier and 130 growth. Luigi would be killin' people at 90%.
D-throw was altered in both base and growth to force us to not 'lol D-throw F-air'. I myself was baffled at the execution of the nerfs, but
thanks to that I discovered SH F-air + D-air (ACs TOO!) to regrab on normal fallers (Mario, etc). My hopes on his other throws being useful were granted too. U-throw double F-airs on fast-fallers is hillarious. B-throw was overlooked because B-air but no more.
Aside from that, the D-smash buffs were eh. I didn't notice the growth increase very well... or at all. D-air spike hitbox buffs also went fairly unnoticeable with me (I'm that kind of Luigi who D-airs everytime he's off-stage so maybe I'm just used to it). Let's not talk about the Fiery Jump Punch because that custom is still trash.
I know "fishing for kills" is derogatory, but it makes him a healthier character. And he still has one of the best sets of smashes in the game...
His mobility doesn't really allow him to fish for U-smash like Mario or Fox can, though.
I know Cyclone in neutral is weird but it's got enough base knockback that means if it works, it works and you get stage control too. Hence mix-up. It's not reliable lol, but I have seen it.
I know I just quoted you above but Cyclone has this 'ultra amazing hitboxes' syndrome where unless you approach them from above, ramming into people with Cyclone will send them upwards. They will then have a lot of time to punish the 90 frames of FAF (End lag IIRC was around 40-50~?). If this problem was addressed then Cyclone would be much more powerful in neutral, easily. This is the only reason why Cyclone is cringeworthy in neutral.
I'd hope so. I'd like buffs that address the meaningful weaknesses he has in some MUs (to some extent) while still being fair to characters he didn't actually struggle with before.
The nerfs really only seemed to deal with the latter and the former went unaddressed. Kind of uneven, personally.
Agreed entirely. What Luigi need was a redistribution. He got the bitter half of it and almost nothing for the other sweet half. Make his top tier MUs not super dumb like now (Sheik and Rosa, namely. Help), as he no longer hard counters any characters.
I'd like to see Luigi's Dash Attack become unclankable in a future patch. Would help him deal better with being zoned out. If he isn't going to kill you when he gets in, it shouldn't be so hard for him to ever get close.
I actually never thought of this before, and I DO think this buff has potential. Would be interesting to see.
And in order to give my answer to the 'Is Luigi still good?', questions all around... No. My answer is no. He loses hard to Sheik and Rosalina, his promising MUs with Pika and Ness don't seem to exist anymore (Although, he still beats Fox and Mario). Greninja, Pac, and Mega just got even worse. I don't think he is anywhere near Top 15 at this point. I just see little future for this Luigi unless everyone in his bad MUs got the same treatment as him. But take this with a grain of salt.
Only times I've seen Luigi/Doc pulled out at high level play is to take out ESAM or Anti vs Abadango. Its tough to rank viability when they both seem so unviable right now.
Doc has less ground mobility than Luigi sure, but his traction means he doesn't have to powershield every single thing to get close.
What can Luigi really do with 1 grab now that Doc can't do? 30-50 damage is just a couple of hits from Doc.
Luigi can actually rack up to like 68% if you have seen My Smash Corner's video. Also, 30-50 is also just a couple hits from Luigi (Or rather, a couple chains that Luigi tend to open opportunities to) when you count in 14% B-air or 11% U-air. Take note of his jab doing 10%, U-tilt strings, 12% N-air also.
bc1910 that he's probably better now than he was on release thanks to having a better recovery, better D-Throw, more safety on his aerials and shurikens being mostly restored.
