Official Character Competitive Impressions - Tourneys, Tiers, Theories, Tactics

[Kaladin]

Doesn't every character go even with themselves?

Anyways, what do you guys think are the hardest characters in this game to learn?

I'd go with:

and .

Pacman needs in that list. He requires you to relearn smash fundamentals.

 

[C0rvus]

Any character that plays neutral in an unusual way tends to be hard to get a grip on in competitive play. Or characters with weird footsies (). Characters who rely on mixups, especially in neutral, are hard to jump into and play ( comes to mind). Lastly, characters with no reliable kill setups or very poor kill power can be difficult to succeed with in particular. But difficulty varies from player to player anyway.

 

[Big-Cat]

You have to play Ryu on his terms, not your own.

This applies to every single character ever.

 

[Y2Kay]

Doesn't every character go even with themselves?

Anyways, what do you guys think are the hardest characters in this game to learn?

I'd go with:

and .

Include to that list. They are all good but require a lot of discipline to be good at.


Also, ? We in there already boys?

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Doesn't every character go even with themselves?

Anyways, what do you guys think are the hardest characters in this game to learn?

I'd go with:

and .

I say are all pretty difficult.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Guys, if we're going by difficulty and the learning curve for the beginning competitive player, we have to choose characters that force players to either A.) have a deep understanding of the mechanics or character. Or B.) have exceptional execution and and hand-eye coordination. If x character is a swordsman, that character is probably just going to be a footsies teacher like street fighter ll Ryu and not something that requires extensive knowledge/execution on set plays and certain setups.

 

[Dre89]

Any character that plays neutral in an unusual way tends to be hard to get a grip on in competitive play. Or characters with weird footsies (). Characters who rely on mixups, especially in neutral, are hard to jump into and play ( comes to mind). Lastly, characters with no reliable kill setups or very poor kill power can be difficult to succeed with in particular. But difficulty varies from player to player anyway.

What character doesn't rely on mix ups in neutral?

 

[Wintropy]

This applies to every single character ever.

I disagree, but perhaps that's because I worded my statement poorly.

What I mean to say is that Ryu, by his very nature, defies the conventions of Smash's design philosophy by retaining his complex (by Smash's standards) inputs from Street Fighter. That's something no other character can do, and if you want to play Ryu to his full potential, you have to understand how to use the true inputs. Otherwise you're just handicapping yourself and playing half a character.

So yeah, you're correct, which I why I'm going to rephrase my statement: you have to play Ryu on his own terms in the context of technical inputs, which, when considered at their full potential, function in a manner distinct from every other character in Smash's history. That in itself is sufficient to set him apart from other characters that don't require that kind of mechanical understanding. He technically has more options than other characters. That's why I say he's very much his own character.

 

[Dre89]

I disagree, but perhaps that's because I worded my statement poorly.

What I mean to say is that Ryu, by his very nature, defies the conventions of Smash's design philosophy by retaining his complex (by Smash's standards) inputs from Street Fighter. That's something no other character can do, and if you want to play Ryu to his full potential, you have to understand how to use the true inputs. Otherwise you're just handicapping yourself and playing half a character.

So yeah, you're correct, which I why I'm going to rephrase my statement: you have to play Ryu on his own terms in the context of technical inputs, which, when considered at their full potential, function in a manner distinct from every other character in Smash's history. That in itself is sufficient to set him apart from other characters that don't require that kind of mechanical understanding. He technically has more options than other characters. That's why I say he's very much his own character.

Ryu just has a higher skill floor than most characters because he controls differently. Once you learn those inputs he isn't much harder than other characters because he has a conventional boxing/footsies playstyle. He also has very good frame data given his weight and reward on-hit.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I'd say Ryu is one of the hardest if you've only ever played Smash games. I'm inclined to agree with Wintropy in that he defies all the archetypes of Smash. Button sensitive inputs, input heavy in general despite being in a game that is relatively simple and streamlined in most other aspects? Yeah, for people who have only played Smash Ryu is pretty tough. For people coming from SF though the inputs are easy peasy once you get used to how Smash controls and the character flows naturally from there.

I'd rank him up there in difficulty of use though, for sure.

 

[Gunla]

I'd say Ryu is one of the hardest if you've only ever played Smash games. I'm inclined to agree with Wintropy in that he defies all the archetypes of Smash. Button sensitive inputs, input heavy in general despite being in a game that is relatively simple and streamlined in most other aspects? Yeah, for people who have only played Smash Ryu is pretty tough. For people coming from SF though the inputs are easy peasy once you get used to how Smash controls and the character flows naturally from there.

I'd rank him up there in difficulty of use though, for sure.

While I don't plan on using Ryu seriously, I can definitely attest to this.

Going from a 6-button game like Skullgirls or SF to Smash's 2-buttons definitely feels a lot simpler; with his extra inputs and sensitive actions, however, he's no doubt up there. I find myself wrapping my head a bit easier around Smash's buttons (with no offense to the game's complexity) simply because there's a bit less to keep track of in buttons. Fireball motions are pretty easy to me and the hardest thing comes from doing Tatsus instead of Shakunetsus.

A few other characters that probably belong in that "hard to use" echelon include Greninja, Peach, Sheik and MK off the top of my head. Incredible stuff but they demand input and dedication, as well as a deep understanding of the character.

 

[Ffamran]

I'm not really seeing the idea that Cloud would be a more close-range fighter compared to other swordsmen; what would Cloud appear to gain from being anywhere but max spacing? His sword does seem shorter than Ike's or Shulk's so in those MUs he might have to get creative (worth noting he has a projectile while they don't), but in most MUs he'll easily win that spacing war whereas in most MUs the other guy will have attacks that start up way faster than Cloud's.

When I said that Cloud might be a "close-range" swordsman, it's mostly because of how he swings his Buster Sword compared to Ike, Link, Shulk and even Marth, Meta Knight, the Pits, and Toon Link. Some of Cloud's moves are kind of like Roy's where because of how he swings, his range seems shorter than the others who swing farther out while Cloud swings closer to his body. This can be both a good thing and a bad thing. It's good as it means Cloud can put disjoints close to his body, but it's also bad because Cloud's not swinging far enough where with his Buster Sword, he should be equal or even out-range Ike. Also, for the purposes of balancing, Cloud's Buster Sword is much, much shorter than in Dissidia and Kingdom Hearts where it was more like Guts's Dragonslayer than in FFVII and Smash 4 where it's more like a fat grosse messer. So, it's not to say that Cloud's this Little Mac-type swordsman which while cool, Meta Knight sort of does that because, well, he's small and his sword is relative to his height unlike in Brawl and unlike Marth in Melee where they basically packed longswords.

Spoiler: Off-topic stuff

INTERESTING SIDE NOTE ABOUT CLOUD: I am pretty sure he's the first Sword character in Smash to have a projectile (I should say, decent range sword character).

People said it before, but Link. Also, even Kirby can count because of Final Cutter's shockwave being a projectile.

It's cool that FF is getting rep in Smash and Cloud is the obvious choice when it comes to that, but goddamn we already have Ike and Shulk for guys wielding big swords. I'd have rather taken Lightning (as if) who's essentially a fast Robin with weaker attacks and no limits on spell usage.

As much as I like Lightning, Cid Highwind, Fang, Snow, Sazh, Balthier - gee, I wonder? -, Basch fon Ronsenberg, Auron, Jecht, Tidus, Cecil, Squall, *rambles on*, the thing is that Cloud's the face of Square Enix kind of like how Mario's the face of Nintendo, except in a "bad" way since Cloud's nostalgia-based while Mario's just Mario and always been Mario. People are always looking for the next Final Fantasy VII despite each Final Fantasy being different games and Square Enix trying to experiment knowing they will fail and knowing they won't please everyone, but hope they can try something and get something amazing out of it which personally, I think all Final Fantasies are.

The other thing is that Lightning's got a gun(blade) and as hypocritical as it is, Smash doesn't allow guns. Meanwhile, Samus's Arm Cannon that can vaporize you - probably really painful -, explosives that if you remember shrapnel exists - also hella painful -, stun guns, blasters, shattering eggs, fire, claws, more fire, magical slashy things, a freaking hammer, and other violent stuff... yeah... So, if Lightning was in Smash, she'd probably based on her Lightning Returns design which you could sum up as "faster Robin without a durability system", "Zelda with a sword", or "Shulk, but female, faster, and actually good". That would **** off people, especially when you figure other characters like Takamaru, Anna, Leif, and Impa could be another swords and sorcery character and that Lightning could have been a unique character that combines swordsmanship with gunplay and acrobatics.

Cloud kinda reminds me of Dante from mvc3. His moves are very flashy and his projectile looks like dante's drive ( i think it's called) his limit break gives him more specails or powered up specails like devil trigger.

It's going to be interesting to see how Cloud develops though. I hope his moves aren't as slow as shulk's that will doom him as a character.

Yep, that's Drive which unlike Blade Beam in any incarnation, can be used in rapid succession or altered. Dante's Drive is more like a Hadouken where he could use it normally, do a quicker version, or do it 3 times in rapid succession. Oh, and he can charge it unlike Cloud. Funny enough, Cloud's Blade Beam animation is more like Dante's Drive where he does an uppercut instead of in his home series where Cloud slams his blade down. I don't know why they would change it like that since it's kind of iconic.

Also, the way Climhazzard works in Smash 4 and kind of Dissidia is like a basic combo you can do with Dante using High Time to lift you opponent up and then Helm Breaker to slam them down while falling down with them.

 

[DanGR]

@anyone who thinks top 3 is sheik, zss, rosa, and also feels the need to call them "gatekeepers": What are they gatekeepers to? Winning? There's nothing above them. That's how top 3 works. The redundancy is killing me.

Also, these are all the matchups we can safely call for Cloud, considering the abundant information we've received from the 2 minute trailer:

Spoiler

gotcha

 

[Wintropy]

@anyone who thinks top 3 is sheik, zss, rosa, and also feels the need to call them "gatekeepers": What are they gatekeepers to? Winning? There's nothing above them. That's how top 3 works. The redundancy is killing me.

Performing consistently well in tournaments; viability. Difficult to be a consistent threat when you have to square off with some of the most popular competitive picks. Sheik is Greninja's gatekeeper, for example, because he's got the options and matchups to do well in tournament, but he has difficulty getting there because he's probably going to struggle with the many Sheiks he will no doubt have to fight.

Which brings me onto something I've been wondering for a while: why exactly is Sheik such a demon for Greninja? Something to do with needles stuffing (tiny) shuriken? I got nothin'. I'd be very happy if somebody could detail this for me.

FullMoon bc1910

 

[FullMoon]

Performing consistently well in tournaments; viability. Difficult to be a consistent threat when you have to square off with some of the most popular competitive picks. Sheik is Greninja's gatekeeper, for example, because he's got the options and matchups to do well in tournament, but he has difficulty getting there because he's probably going to struggle with the many Sheiks he will no doubt have to fight.

Which brings me onto something I've been wondering for a while: why exactly is Sheik such a demon for Greninja? Something to do with needles stuffing (tiny) shuriken? I got nothin'. I'd be very happy if somebody could detail this for me.

FullMoon bc1910

@SolidSense said it best

Greninja does get dominated by Sheik harder than most characters around his general power level do in other matchups.

The thing about Greninja is that he has excellent midrange options and probably top 5 mobility (all things considered like initial dashes etc.) but awful answers to pressure, with a bad OOS game and no n-air escape option against up-tilt chains or pseudo-combos, which are particularly effective on fastfallers. He's basically not great at fighting at close range, but excellent at fighting from close-midrange (spacing using his high range) or at dashgrab/shuriken range. He can generally do pretty well against all the characters in the game, even those who excel in CQC, by keeping them out of close range using his high mobility and midrange spacing/baiting tools. That's the key to playing Greninja: use your top-tier midrange and top-tier mobility to bypass your bottom-tier CQC. And most characters have to play by these rules to at least some extent.

But then you have Sheik, who is not only great at CQC and pseudocomboing fastfallers but also has Needles to shut down Greninja's midrange game, and has terrifying mobility and midrange options herself besides. Greninja's gameplan completely falls apart vs. Sheik. No other character in the game is both good at applying close-quarters pressure and adept at midrange/longrange combat. Maybe Fox might be a horrible matchup too. Maybe. Still nowhere near as bad as Sheik just because of Needles though. The other matchups in the game are all mangeable.

So yes, quite literally it is Sheik that is holding Greninja back from solo main viability. His design is just such that it doesn't get shut down by any design in the game except for Sheik's (which is both unique and slightly overtuned).

Things got a little better after the patch, but Sheik is still a huge pain for Greninja to deal with.

 

[bc1910]

Wintropy Yeah, the above is a decent enough write-up.

I would add that Greninja wants to force the approach in any MU by using shurikens, and can at least force a reaction from every character in the game. By this, I mean that he can still force characters he doesn't necessarily outcamp (the Links, Mega Man) to shield on occasion and mess up their flow. He can also charge shuriken in the air, a massively underrated ability that got better with the startup buff a few patches ago, because he can now full hop shuriken (avoiding most projectiles), charge as he rises and falls, and throw it once he hits the ground. The fully charged shuriken is an incredibly good zone breaker because of its size, speed and transcendent priority.

Sheik is the only character in the game who does not have to worry about shurikens at all, because all she has to do is throw needles to stuff them on startup. You have no chance of getting a fully charged shuriken out against her and even though Greninja actually wins the damage war if both characters just sit there pressing B, Sheik can charge her needles and they outrange shurikens anyway. If needles weren't transcendent this would be less of an issue.

The MU did get better with the latest patch. Being able to Fair and Ftilt her shield safely is a really big deal. There are examples of high level Greninjas taking games off of, and even beating, high level Sheiks, particularly in Europe. This pretty much didn't happen before.

EDIT: Fair being safe on shield now also makes Greninja's approach and spacing game a lot better. This makes the biggest difference in the Sheik MU, the only MU where Greninja is consistently forced to approach.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Either I'm rusty with Di or Mario is a bit of a nightmare to deal with if he relies on down throw into Uptilts combos.
Had a small tournament and not only was the guy I was playing with hard to kill but I went straight from 0 -50 on that combo alone.

Thought's on Mario?
I've found him a bit underwhelming since the Wii U and pocket Smash released but christ... this might be the best he's ever been. I'm not sure whether I was just outplayed or the character just has the right tools to crush you if you're not ready for him.

ParanoidDrone
I think you set up for an inhale on the more larger characters using an uptilt at the lower percentages.
Might have been a video showing it. I look about...

I find it quite ironic that several people on the Mario boards thought he was low tier or just an all-around mediocre character (@A2ZOMG, in particular, believed he was a potential Bottom 5 (or 3) candidate alongside Doc and Olimar). At this point, pretty much everyone on the Mario boards (myself included) believe that he's a solid Top 10 candidate, but to consider him Top 5 is sort of a stretch. Outside of Pikachu, he doesn't really notably win any top tier MUs, and he does poorly against characters like Sheik (though he does significantly better than most of the cast), Rosa, and maybe also Diddy.

Given that I personally base character rankings on how they fare with characters common in the tournament scene and their overall potential (watching tourney sets help with these), I would probably consider Mario to be near the bottom of the Top 10 because while he does fare well against most characters, he overall fares averagely to below-averagely against the best of the best.

 

[Y2Kay]

Wintropy Yeah, the above is a decent enough write-up.

I would add that Greninja wants to force the approach in any MU by using shurikens, and can at least force a reaction from every character in the game. By this, I mean that he can still force characters he doesn't necessarily outcamp (the Links, Mega Man) to shield on occasion and mess up their flow. He can also charge shuriken in the air, a massively underrated ability that got better with the startup buff a few patches ago, because he can now full hop shuriken (avoiding most projectiles), charge as he rises and falls, and throw it once he hits the ground. The fully charged shuriken is an incredibly good zone breaker because of its size, speed and transcendent priority.

Sheik is the only character in the game who does not have to worry about shurikens at all, because all she has to do is throw needles to stuff them on startup. You have no chance of getting a fully charged shuriken out against her and even though Greninja actually wins the damage war if both characters just sit there pressing B, Sheik can charge her needles and they outrange shurikens anyway. If needles weren't transcendent this would be less of an issue.

The MU did get better with the latest patch. Being able to Fair and Ftilt her shield safely is a really big deal. There are examples of high level Greninjas taking games off of, and even beating, high level Sheiks, particularly in Europe. This pretty much didn't happen before.

Your referring to @istudying right? Yeah, he's pretty dang good. mememe has been puttin his results up in the thread, but doesn't spark a big discussion.

Also, do you guys still think sheik is still his gate keeper even with fair safe on shield, and these top level greninjas beating sheiks? I'm not completely sure anymore.

 

[FullMoon]

I do have to wonder who exactly are those high level Sheiks that are being beaten by Greninja.

 

[bc1910]

Objectively, there really isn't enough evidence to say.

Some is good, but he's just that bit worse than the cream of Japan's crop. He'll lose to Sheiks but also to top players like Nietono and Daiki using Diddy or Mega Man. Sheik doesn't exactly hold Some back by herself.

istudying just came 2nd in a 128-man Netherlands national using solo Greninja and losing only to Mr R's Sheik, but he beat other (good) Sheiks like Gregs. So again, whether it was Greninja losing to Sheik or istudying losing to Mr R is up for debate.

I would say Sheik is not a true gatekeeper to Greninja. Not any more, at least. I don't think it's accurate to say Greninja could never win a tournament with Sheik around. Of the high/top tiers Greninja still has one of the worst Sheik MUs, but I don't think it's unwinnable and I'd argue it's significantly better than Falcon's MU with her.

A true gatekeeper would be like what ZSS is to, say, Bowser (or any heavy really), because it's extremely unlikely that Bowser would make it through that MU multiple times at high or top level. I don't think Sheik fits this criteria. That's just my subjective opinion, though.

 

[Mario766]

Include to that list. They are all good but require a lot of discipline to be good at.


Also, ? We in there already boys?

Meta Knight doesn't need discipline. Abadango practiced cheese percents, now does amazing with the character with almost no time put into it.

Zinoto doesn't play MK at all, does a perfect 0-death on people the first time he uses him.

 

[Ikes]

Doesn't every character go even with themselves?

Anyways, what do you guys think are the hardest characters in this game to learn?

I'd go with:

and .

Ryu isnt terribly difficult if you already have street fighter knowledge, it's all about knowing your inputs and links and not relying too much on input buffering, which can lead to bad habits of "spamming" inputs during lag/attack frames

Having strong footsies knowledge goes a long way and most of his links are pretty easy to use.

I'd honestly say Peach, Duck Hunt, Pac-Man, and Mega man are some of the hardest. Pac and Mega especially due to their crazy technical item game and untraditional gameplay styles. Comparatively, Ryu ends up seeming pretty normal.

I say are all pretty difficult.

do people think Wario's hard? hm

i dunno, maybe I pick up odd characters easier than most, I got a good grip of SF3's Makoto pretty quickly since I started and she is considered a very difficult character to use

 

[Y2Kay]

Meta Knight doesn't need discipline. Abadango practiced cheese percents, now does amazing with the character with almost no time put into it.

Zinoto doesn't play MK at all, does a perfect 0-death on people the first time he uses him.

Well those are some great players tho. I find his vertical combo hard for whatever reason, so call me biased.

 

[Jehtt]

OK, so, when did everybody agree that Greninja is high tier? I certainly wasn't around for it...
I just don't know where it came from. I remember hearing for the longest time that he was pretty bad, but this thread seems to hold him in high regards. I mean, I've seen people say that he beats Mario, ZSS, and MK and I didn't see anyone stop to say that sounds just a bit far-fetched...
I mean, look at this MU spread. You'd think a character with an MU spread this good would have more results and more people playing him, but he doesn't. Why? Is it seriously just Sheik? Is it really just a lack of rep?
He doesn't really have any notable results in the US, and very few in Japan, so where does the idea come from?

IDK, maybe I'm just letting the fact that I don't think very highly of Greninja myself get in the way, but something seems off to me.

 

[Smog Frog]

he was super bonkers at launch, and got really nerfed. he was regarded as mid tier, then got shuriken and dthrow buffs. he was considered mid-high to high even before the buffs, the mid tier sentiment was really baffling to me.

 

[Ulevo]

Meta Knight doesn't need discipline. Abadango practiced cheese percents, now does amazing with the character with almost no time put into it.

Zinoto doesn't play MK at all, does a perfect 0-death on people the first time he uses him.

The amount of ignorance exuding from this post is astounding. You think Abadango beat Nairo by simply practicing 'cheese' strategies?

 

[FullMoon]

OK, so, when did everybody agree that Greninja is high tier? I certainly wasn't around for it...
I just don't know where it came from. I remember hearing for the longest time that he was pretty bad, but this thread seems to hold him in high regards. I mean, I've seen people say that he beats Mario, ZSS, and MK and I didn't see anyone stop to say that sounds just a bit far-fetched...
I mean, look at this MU spread. You'd think a character with an MU spread this good would have more results and more people playing him, but he doesn't. Why? Is it seriously just Sheik? Is it really just a lack of rep?
He doesn't really have any notable results in the US, and very few in Japan, so where does the idea come from?

IDK, maybe I'm just letting the fact that I don't think very highly of Greninja myself get in the way, but something seems off to me.

It boils down to lack of rep, like Thinkaman mentioned a little back ago it's kinda like Peach. Greninja doesn't show up much but he does get some notable results like istudying getting second in that one tournament and Some getting 5th in Umebura.

People overreacted to his nerfs just like how they did with Diddy and Luigi. He was always a solid character, hell, I agree with bc1910 that he's probably better now than he was on release thanks to having a better recovery, better D-Throw, more safety on his aerials and shurikens being mostly restored.

Sheik does get in Greninja's way a lot but for the most part he just doesn't have much representation, in part also due to him being a pretty weird and tricky to use character who doesn't really have anything abusive compared to other characters so he's not a very easy character to pick up and do well with.

 

[Thinkaman]

Elephant in the (back) room:

Any inevitable 4BR tier list will shake up the structure of this topic and the way we treat certain discussions. However, it will be a long ways off, so put it out of mind.

 

[wedl!!]

YO WE GOT SMASH 4 BACKROOM?

Who's on it?

 

[Strong-Arm]

Anyone else think Toon Link is slept on? I've been playing around with him a lot lately (dropping Link for him and wanting to play swordsmen to calm my excitement for Cloud) anyways he seems pretty good, but I never hear anyone bring the little guy up.

 

[Thinkaman]

YO WE GOT SMASH 4 BACKROOM?

Who's on it?

There's a news article on the front page.

Beyond that, the initial member list will not be finalized for a modest amount of time I can't give an estimate for. Reflex, Neo Zero, and Cam are taking this process seriously and not making decisions on a whim.

It will be a good group, and not any sort of Kool Kids Klub circlejerk.

 

[Ghostbone]

Meta Knight doesn't need discipline. Abadango practiced cheese percents, now does amazing with the character with almost no time put into it.

Zinoto doesn't play MK at all, does a perfect 0-death on people the first time he uses him.

The fact that you don't think that Abadango spent most of his days once he picked up MK just practicing combos is pretty ignorant.

Zinoto getting the occasional roof combo on an opponent who probably wasn't mixing up DI doesn't make the roof combo easy. It's not exactly technically difficult to double jump uair, but understanding what %s it works and with which hitboxes of dash attack or uair work in which situations, knowing when to fast fall after a uair or when you need to sweetspot up-b (and the positioning required for that) isn't easy.

@backroom stuff, the backroom better not have a closed forum that people can't see tbh. The worst thing about previous backrooms is not being able to see their discussions. It doesn't matter it you can't post in the backroom forums, everyone should be able to read them so we know what's going on and can see the discussion. (though this isn't the right thread to discuss that woops)

 

[Apeirohaon]

My Smash Corner released a guide on what he calls Lagless Ledge Getup - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oBLDQlPkQk

It looks like it works mostly with taller/bigger characters. The high tiers it works with (so far) are Pit, Peach, Greninja, DK, and Falcon.
(The others are )

Do you think this will make a big difference for these characters overall? Or just a small boon?

also, I know this has been known for a while, but weve never had a good guide for it afaik

edit: work as well

 

[wedl!!]

Yea sorry, I didn't see that post lol.

Also lagless getup is HUGE for Peach. Haven't used it before (I'm awful and didn't know about it) but one of Peach's main weaknesses is getting back onstage from the ledge so having a lot of options (like being able to grab, float aerial, etc) on it is pretty big.

 

[Ghostbone]

If Melee is anything to go by, where wavelands are basically the premier option out of grabbing the ledge, this will be very usefull for these characters.

It's worse because there's no invincibility, and melee's other ledge options are completely awful while Smash 4 ones are good, but still. For someone like DK who's other ledge options are completely awful, this will probably become meta defining if it's possible for humans to perfect.

 

[TDK]

YO WE GOT SMASH 4 BACKROOM?

Who's on it?

ZeRo, Dabuz, MVD, NAKAT, Seagull Joe, TheReflexWonder, Neo Zero, Mister Eric, and someone else who's name escapes me at the moment.

At least, that's all the article mentioned...


Hyped for potential SSB4 tier list!

As it is, I feel like the sword characters, outside of MK and Ike, don't seem to be doing well. Design choice by Sakurai, or are the sword characters just really bad this time around?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

There's a news article on the front page.

Beyond that, the initial member list will not be finalized for a modest amount of time I can't give an estimate for. Reflex, Neo Zero, and Cam are taking this process seriously and not making decisions on a whim.

It will be a good group, and not any sort of Kool Kids Klub circlejerk.

Given that it's apparently finalized enough to make an article about on the front page, I'm surprised that the member list is still being worked on.

If Melee is anything to go by, where wavelands are basically the premier option out of grabbing the ledge, this will be very usefull for these characters.

It's worse because there's no invincibility, and melee's other ledge options are completely awful while Smash 4 ones are good, but still. For someone like DK who's other ledge options are completely awful, this will probably become meta defining if it's possible for humans to perfect.

It sounds tight but not impossible, especially for the upper echelon of players who have the time/resources/motivation to go full tilt with their practice.

 

[Big-Cat]

This has my sentiment as other high execution techniques: likely very situational if it has any real use.

 

[Vipermoon]

My Smash Corner released a guide on what he calls Lagless Ledge Getup - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oBLDQlPkQk

It looks like it works mostly with taller/bigger characters. The high tiers it works with (so far) are Pit, Peach, Greninja, DK, and Falcon.
(The others are )

Do you think this will make a big difference for these characters overall? Or just a small boon?

also, I know this has been known for a while, but weve never had a good guide for it afaik

edit: work as well

I'm going to assume that there are a lot more characters but it just varies in difficulty. For example, I've seen this happen to ZSS.

 

[FullMoon]

MSC said it himself that those are only the characters he managed to replicate the tech with.