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Even though Sky doesn't have results I don't doubt that he's good. Genesis will be a good indicator of who's the best imo. iRJi will also be there who's another good Yoshi. With all this rep hopefully one of us can make a dent.
I'd say this is a gross exaggeration because Ness is not totally helpless coming back. His aerial mobility and second jump are pretty good, he has an air stall, and he has reliable aerials to protect himself while coming back. It should also be mentioned that he can purposely hit a wall, bounce off, and then do PKT2 again in this game to mix things up. A good number of these characters would be putting themselves at a huge risk trying to actually go out and hit him, especially if the Ness player sees it coming. I'd argue that there's only a handful of characters that have enough methods to reliably gimp Ness without risking a full blown PKT2 to the face or an aerial counter:As far as I know, he picked up Rosalina to defeat Ness players easily when he played Pacman.
I have seen Shaky and Taranito beat some Rosalinas, but they weren't major ones and the matchup still looked as bad as any match with Dabuz in it. The bolded part:
How to gimp Ness 101:
Gravitational Gimp (a 1 button press that absorbs PKT then Ness dies):(custom)
Reflected/Windboxed (can go out, use a reflector/windbox, Ness dies):
Countered (explains itself):
Item/Projectile ( they throw things offstage until he dies):
Raw (They go out, throw out aerials, he dies):
are put in really bad positions if they botch the gimp thanks to their recoveries, are big targets, are likely to die from a point blank PKT2 as low as 50-60% offstage if they mess up, have much better options on stage against him, and have to practically throw their bodies at Ness to stop him with most of their options. As the saying goes: easier said than done.This isn't to say it isn't impossible to gimp Ness but it's far more risky for most of the cast than you let on. Ness ain't no Little Mac.
AddI'd argue that there's only a handful of characters that have enough methods to reliably gimp Ness without risking a full blown PKT2 to the face or an aerial counter:
to that, he can Focus through PKT and dash cancel double jump Shoryuken to recover, and if he misses he can armor through PKT2 and live.
Fattie said 'without risking a fullblown PK Rocket'. As in, not getting hit. It's still a strong move, so Ryu WILL take heavy damage if hit. That's even if he gets to recoverAdd
Wario can ledge crash the bike and throw it at him.and
I'd argue that there's only a handful of characters that have enough methods to reliably gimp Ness without risking a full blown PKT2 to the face or an aerial counter:
& have a few reliable ways to gimp Ness. Palutena's reflect can move Ness out of the way of PK thunder thanks to the wind box on the move. I'm not sure if Bair clanks or beats Ness's up b but it will not loose if timed correctly meaning Ness's distance will either be halved or he'll be tossed back for another edge guard. I'm not sure about Palutena, but I do no Peach's counter can easily send Ness flying backwards and possibly kill if he hits peach. Also Peach could throw turnips at Ness from a safe distance to send him farther from the stage, but I'm uncertain on if the distance will be shortened by any turnip.
I just like D-Tilting at the right moment.
)
Oh. Derp.
using Guardian Orbitars to screw around with the Upb.
If we're talking about gimping his PK Thunder, Dark Pit can do it for free with Electroshock. Even if Ness attempts to do some crazy thing like using PK Thunder as a barrier, Dark Pit will deflect (not reflect, the one time it's helpful too) it in a way Ness won't be able to even aim himself sideways back at the stage, if not right into him at the completely wrong angle.I'd say this is a gross exaggeration because Ness is not totally helpless coming back. His aerial mobility and second jump are pretty good, he has an air stall, and he has reliable aerials to protect himself while coming back. It should also be mentioned that he can purposely hit a wall, bounce off, and then do PKT2 again in this game to mix things up. A good number of these characters would be putting themselves at a huge risk trying to actually go out and hit him, especially if the Ness player sees it coming. I'd argue that there's only a handful of characters that have enough methods to reliably gimp Ness without risking a full blown PKT2 to the face or an aerial counter:
A lot of the characters you mentioned have to have precise aim with specific projectiles or practically throw their whole body at him to stop him.
That's why I exaggerated and made a full list of how to gimp Ness. The other player can just throw himself out, DI towards the wall, tech and Ness dies. Of course good Ness players don't burn their DJ, don't use PKt inmediately to recover, and do some PKT shenanigans, but they won't work forever. And the characters mentioned byIf you can tech, throwing yourself into PK Thunder 2 actually is effective. It cuts its distance in half iirc.
Fatmanonice
just don't give a single damn about Ness offstage.
And then there was Ganondorf. Ganondorf would just want to wait for Ness to use PKT so he can either just Flame Choke, D-Air, brave the PKT2 or D-Spec.That's why I exaggerated and made a full list of how to gimp Ness. The other player can just throw himself out, DI towards the wall, tech and Ness dies. Of course good Ness players don't burn their DJ, don't use PKt inmediately to recover, and do some PKT shenanigans, but they won't work forever. And the characters mentioned by
Except if you even so much as think of braving the PKT2 you're risking your own stock due to Ganondorf's awful recovery.
What does recovery have to do with this? You're basically getting hit by Ness's body, and if you just don't get stage spiked, you will have no problem recovering back. Braving it would mean getting hit by it to just gimp Ness, no?
Unless you manage to tech it [which, due to this being Smash 4, can be impossible depending on where you are], or you're hit at a good enough of an angle to launch you onto the stage again, you're getting Stage Spiked.
what is it streamed on?
I'd say villager is still worth trying at times since his up B has no invincibility and Dorf can outright kill him offstage.
And with Sheik, it takes ONE mistake and Sheik will be sucked into the abyss with Flame Choke.
Yeah. You have to pick your spots carefully against Villager because he kills you very easily if you screw up, but you can realistically kill him if you do things right. Sheik is just really hard to tag with anything in addition to being able to kill you for screwing up.
Also, you cannot z-drop while in an animation, as it will trigger a normal item toss.
that explains some whacky deaths in this game. but i dont know what can be applied from it
