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at least for the first three years or so. are unquestionably high tier, most people agree that are on the high end of mid tier at worst with plenty of room to grow and develop, and that has a 90% of being on the high end of high tier.
I find it hilarious Nintendo keeps giving decent autocancels to characters like Cloud, but for everyone else they horde them like they want them to be subpar characters.
As off topic as this is, from what I've heard about FF7R it's going to be a timed exclusive, and while the Wii U probably couldn't handle the game the NX seems to be coming pretty soon.
Seeing as I'm probably the one who started this... Braindead =/= broken. Cloud's very easy to use and play effectively, and he's got some very potent tools on top of this. As it's been said, Cloud vs. X is undeniably easier to learn then X vs. Cloud. In spite of all of this Cloud still has some glaring weaknesses and is by no means a free win against somebody who really understands the matchup or Shiek. Once we figure out a few more of his bad matchups he's going to end up like Ness who bodies a lot of worse characters but then is bodied by a bunch of characters higher then him.
If the opponent is conditioned to expect d-smash at the ledge, walk-off fair can totally blindside them.Complain all you want about your main's crap forward air but take solace in the fact that it isn't
Now count the number of times where the Lucas could have considered throwing out a grab, which would have hit and resulted in high reward, but they declined because the risk was too great.
This post is false.
Haven't both Nairo and Choco lost to Clouds? not the the fights were super fair, but if the MU was far in ZSS's favor, then I don't think they would've lost.
It seems to me that the main thing Rosa has in this MU is a disjointed Dair, allowing for easier gimps then usual. Other then that, Cloud has a pretty big advantage looking at it moveset and strategy wise.
Agreed. Also, Lucas's Nair damage output was buffed to 12%, and considering how much he uses that move and how it strings into itself and pretty much all his other aerials, that's a pretty important one too.
No one actually knows but everyone thinks they do.
Nairo wasn't playing on his best on that match. A lot of whiffed grabs. And D-tilt just clanks with Spin Dash. That doesn't mean Cloud is the perfect counter for Sonic. Because he doesn't have enough speed on his frame data to make Sonic suffer. Also Spring negates any recovering option that Cloud can have. Maybe Rosalina loses to Cloud. But i'm sure as hell Pikachu, Ness, Mario, Meta Knight and Captain Falcon defeat Cloud very easily.
No one said Cloud's broken. His limit is a poorly balanced mechanic that needs to be tweaked. I can't see Cloud as the most gimpable character with his air speed, although his non-limit recovery is bad for sure.
Oh, so rising aerials are for smearing a hitbox all up & down where a recovering character wishes to recover high. I assumed they were for something OoS or pressuring someone else's shield, or something. I see Sheik sometimes nair OoS and think, why not jabs or f-tilts?
So do we buff Sheik and Rosalina a ton as well next patch? :^)If they do nerf/tweak Cloud's limit break, I hope they give him something in return, like give him a slight buff to his recovery. Some sort of equal exchange should be made, if he gets nerfed at all
You can cross up shield easily with dtilt. (At least I think)
is maybe top 20, but maybe not any better than that. But who knows, I've seen some interesting early ko set-ups using finishing touch, but they don't seem super reliable. 
Hmm, where to I begin? This multiple choice is boggling my mind:
I think the title of 'absolute worst grab game in the game' would go to Jigglypuff. Cloud can at the very least keep them away so he can get more limit.
beats Cloud? Interesting.? Much like how Ginko has a pocket for his anti-zoning prowess, I see similarities in Falco. I also discovered how much I love to box with opponents, and Falco's normals seem very good. Big 2 frame jab? Check. Excellent autocancel aerials in bair and up air? Check. for some reason.
That's one way of using it; abusing active frames like how Fox and Mario use their Dairs. The other way is putting out an aerial while moving quickly. Falco's capable of doing this since his double jump is high, so if you some how lost track of which jump he used/wasted and think you can just drift out, he can immediately double jump and hit you with Bair. Hitting above can happen too like inputting a slower aerial like Captain Falcon and Falco's Dair or Mario's Fair to have the startup happen during the rise meaning all you've done is position yourself to catch an opponent for a spike. Some characters actually want to do this so they don't have landing lag like Cloud doing a rising Fair or Dair. That way, you can immediately act as you land.
Falco is ok but his mobility bites him a lot. Against villager is heavily debated that it's falco favor slightly or even until falco is offstage and that mu when played right is pretty ground based and boring. As for Rosa he has better tools to kill luma then Fox does but gets pooped on because of Luma. I'm notYou think
I've been meaning to ask about the bird because I'm heavily considering him as a secondary. Is he any good against
What are peoples' opinions of Falco? I know FOW has a pocket Falco for
Ffamran
who can rant and rave on his faults but he's ok. But against high tier he obviously gets pooped on and his disadvantaged state is bad and his side b lacking a full hitbox is annoying.
If I have learned anything from this thread Larry, it's that acting like your opinions are fact is how you get a bad reputation.
