Challenger Approaching!!! ROY!! .PAC UP!!!! 12/7/09 at 3:36 AM EST

[metaXzero]

What's funny is that someone already asked on this page...

 

[_Bankai_]

What's funny is that someone already asked on this page...

Lol @ people's laziness...lol

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Is it just me or does roy not only fall obscenely fast, but his recovery is terrible?

 

[Shadic]

It's supposed to balance him, apparently. But I don't think he's so good that "off the edge = insta-death" balances it out, though.

Especially not if the frame speed mods come out that slow more of his moves (very slightly down.) I believe Roy has quite a few moves that are 2-4 frames slower than Marth's.

 

[Dark Sonic]

He's also got a lot less landing lag and ending lag in general (for ground moves) than Marth does. And they're specifically designed to be combo oriented moves as well AND he's got better killing options. If you want him to have a better recovery, you're gonna have to nerf something <_<

 

[NxtGenFalco93]

i noticed somthing not too long ago that might want fixed. when you use roys neutral b in mid air, you automaticly are put into a fast fall. i did it off the stage and it royally screwed me ( because it has sooo much end lag and he has a terrible up b). but "off stage=/= alwasys insta death, its just very difficult to recover.

 

[Coron614]

Hello.
Roy and I often use the codeset.
It is very interesting.

By the way, the Roy codeset not to reproduce in PSA Is it impossible?
I thought that PSA can be used together even if reproduced in any codes...

 

[Wander]

http://www.mediafire.com/?q2mmw4lugdm

Sped the 4th-low victory up from 0.5 to 0.6 speed.

 

[_Bankai_]

http://www.mediafire.com/?q2mmw4lugdm

Sped the 4th-low victory up from 0.5 to 0.6 speed.

Awesome, haven't tested yet, but I'm sure it's betta.

@Camelot: Just reminding you to use Wander's latest .pac file for victory pose/dtaunt adjustments b4 you put forth your next .pac release.

 

[_Bankai_]

i noticed somthing not too long ago that might want fixed. when you use roys neutral b in mid air, you automaticly are put into a fast fall. i did it off the stage and it royally screwed me ( because it has sooo much end lag and he has a terrible up b). but "off stage=/= alwasys insta death, its just very difficult to recover.

True, that does happen if u double jump and neutral b off the stage. However, I don't think that fast falling really matters if ur only doing a single jump off the ledge--it's relatively easy to recover from, all you have to do is up b back onto the stage. Remember guys, Roy wasn't a particularly awesome aerial fighter in melee. Marth was clearly superior in the air.

Roy's specialty was mainly his ground attacks. Yes, he had some aerials which he could work into combos and such, but those weren't his "main" moves. His most notable moves (again, this is what I feel based on matches played against good human Roys--I may be leaving some out, but you should get the point) were dtilt, fsmash, and neutral b; the rest of his maneuvers would mainly be defensive ones.

Roy should NOT be as easy to maneuver in the air as Marth. He shouldn't be able to chase people off the stage and expect to return most of the time (like Marth). Futhermore, his aerial attacks should not be as fast and as easy to pull off. With that said, I do agree that he should have certain buffs here and there for his aerial moves (considering that he had a plethora of negatives in Melee and was lower tier), but nothing earth shatteringly good. Roy is Roy and should play as Roy, not Marth.

Sorry for double post >_<

 

[Wander]

Still, his ground game is already killer. The uncharged fsmash sweetspots killing at under 60% is crazy enough.

 

[Shadic]

So slightly tone down his advantages (Freakishly low killing percentages) and help his weak points a bit?

I'm not saying having him be a flat, boring character, but he's easily the most two tiered character. (By this, I mean he has some HUGE advantages, yet GIGANTIC disadvantages, tone it down to good and bad traits)

 

[smashmaniac2008]

i just say just make him fall at the exact same speed as DK. and run at the same speed as Toon Link. and walk at the same speed as Squirtle. wait... isn't that the same as he is now?

 

[NxtGenFalco93]

i say you raise the bkb of the ded strikes make the fair a bit better and the fsmash a bit worse.

 

[_Bankai_]

i say you raise the bkb of the ded strikes make the fair a bit better and the fsmash a bit worse.

If you mean increase dmg or bkb for fair, then I agree. As for fair's speed? I say it must be decreased. It's too good as it is now.

Also, ded should have a bit more bkb, true.

Fsmash is fine as it is...perhaps a tad bit slower would make it more classic Roy-ish? I dunno, that's up to Camelot to decide.

Camelot got the list of frame speeds for melee Roy. We'll see how he fine tunes Rarth in the next .pac...

 

[smashmaniac2008]

is someone making a roy model?

 

[tsunami70875]

camelot, i noticed that you ended up using the DED 4th side for the flare blade
are you sure about this? both it and the forward smash have one handed swings, and i think forward smash arcs better, and the 4th hit looks better as the counter attack.

 

[Shadic]

No. We are not having this conversation again. Sorry, tsunami.

 

[_Bankai_]

camelot, i noticed that you ended up using the DED 4th side for the flare blade
are you sure about this? both it and the forward smash have one handed swings, and i think forward smash arcs better, and the 4th hit looks better as the counter attack.

Tsunami, you should've been here for this discussion lol. I was actually in favor of the forward smash and helped push that animation forward for the move. However, more moves were tried out; certain people didn't like the fact that the fsmash animation was being reused for yet another move...

Honestly, I do agree that fsmash has a better arc and gets the job done with no problem. However, I also happen to like the 4th hit side DED animation as well (though it is a tad bit less reliable than fsmash, but not so much so).

 

[smashmaniac2008]

**** it i really liked the fsmash one too.
EDIT: what i wanna know is why camelot likes 4th hit side b so much

 

[tsunami70875]

No. We are not having this conversation again. Sorry, tsunami.

eh, i wasn't here
i'll read back a couple of pages

Tsunami, you should've been here for this discussion lol. I was actually in favor of the forward smash and helped push that animation forward for the move. However, more moves were tried out; certain people didn't like the fact that the fsmash animation was being reused for yet another move...

Honestly, I do agree that fsmash has a better arc and gets the job done with no problem. However, I also happen to like the 4th hit side DED animation as well (though it is a tad bit less reliable than fsmash, but not so much so).

**** it i really liked the fsmash one too.
EDIT: what i wanna know is why camelot likes 4th hit side b so much

i guess i'll just change my personal PAC...
but, _Bankai_, 4th hit DED is being used for another move (i.e. FORTH HIT DED, and in the PAC i had before, the counter strike), and forward smash wasn't

unless i missed something...?

 

[5ive]

If you Guys Really want Pics I'll get some Tommrow

Yes, please.

 

[smashmaniac2008]

No i rly don't get why he likes 4th hit side so much.

EDIT: lol AWESOME FACE PIKACHU!!!!

 

[_Bankai_]

eh, i wasn't here
i'll read back a couple of pages




i guess i'll just change my personal PAC...
but, _Bankai_, 4th hit DED is being used for another move (i.e. FORTH HIT DED, and in the PAC i had before, the counter strike), and forward smash wasn't

unless i missed something...?

By all means dude, when Camelot comes out with his latest .pacs, you can just alter the neutral b to have the fsmash animation and counter to have 4th hit side DED. I'm good with either fsmash or 4th hit DED, both are decent. Please post up ur .pacs tho.

And regarding teh counter, Camelot just changed it bak to the default animation. Personally, I thought that wasn't such a great idea. I rather liked having the 4th side hit for counter too...oh well. Roy, at this point in his development, is still kickass regardless lol.

@Blazeknight: Congrats on making a black Roy that doesn't look gay like Marth. He actually looks...dark lool.

 

[smashmaniac2008]

yeah tsunami just make your own

 

[NxtGenFalco93]

ya i say who care if we recycle the 4th side hit ded cuz it rarely gets used (if ever) as its actuall move.
p.s. 5ive i loved the brawl+ montage.

 

[_Bankai_]

@Camelot: Is there any way you can make neutral b release slightly faster? I know you explained this earlier when you changed teh animation from fsmash to 4th side hit DED, but you didn't mention if this was something that couldn't be fixed.

In melee, Roy's neutral b took precedence over nearly every move in the game, but in Brawl+, it's rather ironic that, with his current animation, he can barely land a hit with that very same move lol. If you could somehow speed up Roy's "turning around" animation right before he swings, perhaps the move would be more effective. Your thoughts on the matter.

 

[camelot]

If I sped up the "turning around" part of the animation, the forward scoot would be faster and just look awkward.

You know, I'm thinking about changing it back to the f-smash animation because of the forward scoot it gets right now...

 

[comboking]

http://www.mediafire.com/?q2mmw4lugdm

Sped the 4th-low victory up from 0.5 to 0.6 speed.

Was this built off of the latest official PAC file?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

no. .........

 

[smashmaniac2008]

@Camelot: Yes!!!!!

 

[comboking]

@Camelot: YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[smashmaniac2008]

@comboking: Thief

 

[comboking]

@Smashmaniac2008: Do you have a patent on that phrase?
I was only kidding.

 

[_Bankai_]

If I sped up the "turning around" part of the animation, the forward scoot would be faster and just look awkward.

You know, I'm thinking about changing it back to the f-smash animation because of the forward scoot it gets right now...

@Camelot: Haha, I was quite fond of the fsmash animation. Yeah, perhaps you should consider that. I also enjoyed having 4th side hit DED as the counter animation.

Honestly, after trying both, I find that 4th side hit DED would look cool in practically any situation. However, it appears that the fsmash animation is most effective for neutral b. And as I've said before, accuracy > looks.

@Comboking: I'm pretty sure the .pac you asked about is based off the latest official, just with all of Wander's victory pose/dtaunt adjustments.

 

[NxtGenFalco93]

i think the neutral b should be the fsmash animation, bring the counter back to 4th hit ded and WHEN WE CAN so dont yell at me for throwing this out there, but put ikes fsmash as roys WHEN YOU CAN.

 

[camelot]

Argh. I was about to post a new .pac, but mediafire is down.

Anyway, for the newest one, I did a whole lot of frame speed changes. Most moves have 1 frame slower start-up (a couple have 2 frames slower), and slightly (1 or 2 frames) increased end-lag. D-smash you'll notice got a severe slow-down, though. The first slash hits just as fast as before, but the behind slash comes out a lot later.

Only 3 of Roy's moves had faster end-lag than before... his jab, dash attack, and d-tilt (d-tilt still has 1 frame more start-up, though). The differences for his jab and dash attack are very noticeable.

The only attack I didn't change to match Roy's original data is his d-air. Slowing it to its melee equivalent made it much worse, and it's already a pretty sub-par attack.

And I changed DED's first hits to have a tiny bit more bkb and less kbg.

 

[_Bankai_]

Argh. I was about to post a new .pac, but mediafire is down.

Anyway, for the newest one, I did a whole lot of frame speed changes. Most moves have 1 frame slower start-up (a couple have 2 frames slower), and slightly (1 or 2 frames) increased end-lag. D-smash you'll notice got a severe slow-down, though. The first slash hits just as fast as before, but the behind slash comes out a lot later.

Only 3 of Roy's moves had faster end-lag than before... his jab, dash attack, and d-tilt (d-tilt still has 1 frame more start-up, though). The differences for his jab and dash attack are very noticeable.

The only attack I didn't change to match Roy's original data is his d-air. Slowing it to its melee equivalent made it much worse, and it's already a pretty sub-par attack.

And I changed DED's first hits to have a tiny bit more bkb and less kbg.

Nice, can't wait to test out the new frame speed changes. Before you release the next .pac, could you change the neutral b animation back to fsmash and the counter animation back to 4th side hit DED? Please?

People in favor of neutral b f-smash animation and counter 4th side hit DED animation: Smashmaniac, Comboking, Nxtgenfalco, me XD

 

[camelot]

Bankai, I changed Flare Blade back to the f-smash animation, but the counter is at its default because of bugs it had as the 4th side hit of DED (if someone hit you from behind, you shifted backward a lot).

<here> is the newest .pac.


(Also... @Wander, I don't have the victory poses or d-taunt changes in. Let me explain why. Even though the default victory poses are "Marthy", they're still what they are intended to be: victory poses. Using recycled animations/idle poses for victory poses just looks way too plain. As for the d-taunt, using it went straight from the idle pose to the charging animation with no transition between the two, so it just looks choppy. Please don't take any personal offense to this.)

 

[_Bankai_]

Thanks Camelot. Yeah I totally understand what you mean about the counter bug. As for Wander's poses/dtaunt changes, that's perfectly cool too. Since Wander already made his changes previously, I doubt it would be hard to simply add those changes to the newest .pac. For shiz and giggles he could just make those few modifications to whatever .pacs you release.

Once again, awesome stuff man XD