Sage Osaka
Smash Ace
Marth dittos vs m2k is a very humbling experience indeed. I'm glad I'm able to say I've done them with him
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Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy
- Thread starter Cactuar
- Start date
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
I remember playing M2K's Marth with my Sheik at TGMTSBCO.
I couldn't touch him.
Smooth Criminal
I couldn't touch him.
Smooth Criminal
booshk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- May 14, 2006
- Messages
- 1,104
ohh i thought it was austinrc haha
Niko45
Smash Master
He really needs to grab you.
If he gets grabs he can cargo up throw into a string of up airs and later on cargo up throw to up air will KO on most stages.
DK will either bair camp/approach you or shield camp looking for a grab. For bairs you can run in with your shield to try to throw off his spacing and potentially get your own shield grab. For shield camping you really need to just run/walk up to him and grab him. When he's facing forward he really doesn't have any good options to protect himself besides like, ftilt, which is similar to Marth's ftilt in laggyness (imagine if Marth's ftilt was his best option in front of him lol).
Other things that make DK tricky:
His ledge get up attack.
He tends to live forever. If he DIs well it seems like he can consistently just up b right below the ledge and it lasts so long I either end up getting hit or rolling up too soon. Can't seem to edgehog it properly but I could just be doing it wrong.
Max?
Smash Champion
DK can also Cargo-> uthrow -> giant punch at various %'s which will KO.
Don't get grabbed.
Don't get grabbed.
Fortress | Sveet
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be mindful of their options. Generally they can attack you, jump over you or roll behind you. Each player finds their own ways to bait react and punish these things. For example, the opponent might be waiting for you to attack them and then roll behind you when you do. You can exploit this knowledge in any way you can imagine. Depending on how strong your yomi skills are, you might be bold enough to dash at them and charge a pivot fsmash.
Sage Osaka
Smash Ace
I use spaced fairs/nairs and downtilts to keep them backed up. dont press too hard though because some characters can punish you back.
Wo1f
Smash Apprentice
Whats "The Curse"? XD
By the way, hes Falco:
Jump from stage - Bair to the face
CC my ledgehop moves and uses from Broken move
Roll he counters it
Ledgehop Counter works sometimes, but he catches on.
Niko45
Smash Master
Generally speaking with Marth on the ledge:
If your opponent is really aggressive about trying to hit marth with moves as he comes up from the ledge using roll up or ledge hop air dodge should flip the script on him.
If you opponent is waiting back trying to outspace a ledgehop aerial or grab you after a ledgehop aerial, wavelanding in place at the very edge of the stage should get you up safely.
I honestly have moved completely away from ledgehop aerials all together unless they have blatantly lagged in front of me or they're clearly way out of position. Basically unless it's guaranteed I don't use it.
And you should also in general get off the ledge as fast as possible before they can set themselves up with ideal spacing against your ledge options.
If your opponent is really aggressive about trying to hit marth with moves as he comes up from the ledge using roll up or ledge hop air dodge should flip the script on him.
If you opponent is waiting back trying to outspace a ledgehop aerial or grab you after a ledgehop aerial, wavelanding in place at the very edge of the stage should get you up safely.
I honestly have moved completely away from ledgehop aerials all together unless they have blatantly lagged in front of me or they're clearly way out of position. Basically unless it's guaranteed I don't use it.
And you should also in general get off the ledge as fast as possible before they can set themselves up with ideal spacing against your ledge options.
Winston
Smash Master
Why wouldn't you ledgehop spike?
Niko45
Smash Master
It depends how early you realize he's going low, since he can also recover high and live forever just dandy.
OverLord
Smash Ace
I thought about using counter on DK's up-b. But I don't know if it can work if he sweetspots perfectly.
MasterShake
Smash Lord
DK can tech marth's attacks well, Mexican taught me that.
What do you do if you and your opponent are just dash dancing? I always throw out attacks for no reason. Am I just being impatient?
What do you do if you and your opponent are just dash dancing? I always throw out attacks for no reason. Am I just being impatient?
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
If you are both just dash dancing then you are just wasting time lol. When you are dash dancing you should be going in and out of their comfort zone and trying to bait attacks.
vs DKs up B sweetspot sh fairing isnt too bad because it hits them out and away from the ledge so u can fsmash or something. Even if they tech they will prob up B right away and fair doesnt have a **** ton of lag.
vs DKs up B sweetspot sh fairing isnt too bad because it hits them out and away from the ledge so u can fsmash or something. Even if they tech they will prob up B right away and fair doesnt have a **** ton of lag.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,550
he can't if Marth respects his range. dash dance bair/grab is all you have lmao
i'm not helping any marths against DK so **** off go be gay somewhere else
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
I like to dash off the ledge, jump, dair back on-stage to edgeguard DK's up-B. Seems to cover most of the options.
I can't say I know much about the MU though so I may be wrong.
I can't say I know much about the MU though so I may be wrong.
!!!RM!!!
Smash Journeyman
@Crimson: That seems like really good coverage actually. 
Should we be using Dtilt approaches at low %s at all? I know they can be CC'd, so I'm not too sure if its all that reliable anymore. x . x
Should we be using Dtilt approaches at low %s at all? I know they can be CC'd, so I'm not too sure if its all that reliable anymore. x . x
Niko45
Smash Master
This is a really awesome mixup against a lot of characters. Any character that tends to methodically double jump sweet spot the ledge (CF, Ganon come to mind). Same as Falcos will go down there and just dair their double jump Marth can do the same, despite it being much more risky than it is for Falco since you're going to lag like a mother if you miss, if it feels right, go for it.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,550
IN AND OUT LOLOLOLOL
Winston
Smash Master
I was referring to the bit about attempting to edgehog him with ledge roll. It seems like if you are in that situation, then ledgehop spike is an option that he won't get to tech.
But yeah, I would think really high recoveries are more problematic.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
This is good advice in and out of smash.
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As I always say, if it feels good then it is good!!!IN AND OUT LOLOLOLOL
Dart!
Smash Master
don't need help against no damn dirty apes...
ChaseRLewis
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- May 30, 2011
- Messages
- 6
long time 2d player starting to play some melee since theirs a big smash community in my area and a few of them are starting to play 2d. Loving marth, however, some matchups i'm having more trouble finding info on than others. Two questions:
1) Starting to understand the peach and spacies matchups but I'm a bit confused on the young link matchup. I tend to win it, but kinda think that's because I'm able to bait a lot of bad grabs from the player more than anything. I just tend to take a huge amount of damage trying to touch him and so i'm wondering what's the best way to deal with bomb/boomerang stuff.
Also for edgeguarding I tend to use d-tilt and counter if it looks like it'll catch his up-B are these the correct edge-guarding tools for this matchup? If i didn't kill him 90% of the time he got off the stage i'd probably be losing almost all these matches as I feel I'm kinda randoming him out rather than outplaying him.
2) What's the best way to respond to a SH aerial? If it's different for different characters could you give me some examples? I tend to just short hop back fair and it works but doesn't leave me with a lot to work with. If they jump from far away some characters I can sh forward and intercept for a grab combo or some SH aerial combo's but they have to jump from really far to do this, so it's not a good respons from normal sh distance.
1) Starting to understand the peach and spacies matchups but I'm a bit confused on the young link matchup. I tend to win it, but kinda think that's because I'm able to bait a lot of bad grabs from the player more than anything. I just tend to take a huge amount of damage trying to touch him and so i'm wondering what's the best way to deal with bomb/boomerang stuff.
Also for edgeguarding I tend to use d-tilt and counter if it looks like it'll catch his up-B are these the correct edge-guarding tools for this matchup? If i didn't kill him 90% of the time he got off the stage i'd probably be losing almost all these matches as I feel I'm kinda randoming him out rather than outplaying him.
2) What's the best way to respond to a SH aerial? If it's different for different characters could you give me some examples? I tend to just short hop back fair and it works but doesn't leave me with a lot to work with. If they jump from far away some characters I can sh forward and intercept for a grab combo or some SH aerial combo's but they have to jump from really far to do this, so it's not a good respons from normal sh distance.
condemned_soul
Smash Champion
reference code: sex
Dart bring your *** back to MI soon pls
Dart bring your *** back to MI soon pls
Hellsinglover999
Smash Journeyman
i second this
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
^ I think the Bair would just trade with Fair.
Fortress | Sveet
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Trades generally favor whoever is getting hit back to the stage
OverLord
Smash Ace
I don't get why trading when you got options that allows you to not get hit and have same results.
Niko45
Smash Master
trades generally favor not marth
ILM
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2010
- Messages
- 218
.Chipmunk.
Smash Ace
Basically, what he means is that because Marth is a ranged character that does the most damage at the tip of the sword, traded hits are always well within Marth's tipper range and therefore Marth doesn't deal a great deal of damage with a traded hit.trades generally favor not marth
Fortress | Sveet
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No i think he meant that marth gets ***** when he gets hit and lots of characters approach him with trades.
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
whoa. best first post in history.
1) pick small stages, use your way bigger range. try to intercept him as he jumps from platform to platform. keep close enough to him that he can't spam you. Idk how to edgeguard really, i'd guess that fsmash/dtilt is sufficient. spike when you can.
2) sh aerials have several good responses. let's consider fox nair first.
a) If fox aerials at you where you're currently standing, DD grab *****
b) if fox aerials at where you'd be if you DD grabbed, just grabbing/hitting him *****
c) if you're at low % just CC grab
okay but then what if fox dairs? CC doesnt work anymore, but you can DD grab better because it has less range.
against a lot of characters, esp. slow ones like peach, you can just wait for them to be in the air, get to proper sh fair range, and sh fair them out of whatever they try.
sh retreating nair has a tendency to beat out incoming approaches a lot, but doesnt lead to a ton.
anyway that's a start, work forward from there however seems natural to you.
Walt
Smash Ace
You aren't going to find a lot of help against young link because no one plays him because he can't really do much more than throw crap, dsmash, and do bomb to dair for a kill. If he is just projectile camping try to bait out a boomerang when he isn't holding a bomb so he can't cover the screen with stuff and get in with a grab. He is sometimes hard to kill because of how his recovery works but just keep at it. Ylink sucks.
mers
Smash Ace
This SPECTACULAR first post tells me one really important thing about you: you know how to think about smash. There's probably lots of specific things people can tell you that would help (e.g. try wavedashing backward when they approach with a SH aerial), but honestly I think that you should just keep playing and trying new stuff.
Killer mindset, now just get that practice time in! You'll get good faster than you think.
I actually have quite a bit of experience vs Ylink as Marth.
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