Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Construct]

Haxdashing is the name I've heard thrown around, there was a thread about it started by Mofo in Melee Discussion

I need to play this game more

 

[Kadano]

What you found looks really useful Kadano.
There should be a thread with techniques like that really, I feel like many players will miss it in here.

I think knowledge should rather be archived on ssbwiki than here. With the bugged search and restrictive editing rights, dedicated threads quickly become outdated/insufficient. Right now, ssbwiki is still quite full with misinformation and unhelpful articles, so everyone can help by checking for this.

Edit : Also, there should be a name for jumping onto the stage and wavelanding back to the edge. So many tricks lack their own name and it's obnoxious to explain sometimes.

Reverse ledgedashing / ledgedashstall is pretty accurate, I think. The latter only if it’s used repetitively to stay invincible, of course. “Reverse” can be dropped because normal ledgedashes can’t be used as a stall anyway.

 

[FrootLoop]

I don't think it's really worth adding to your game let alone naming.

marth boards you used to be ok. What happened?

 

[Bones0]

I don't think it's really worth adding to your game let alone naming.

marth boards you used to be ok. What happened?

Why? I've already added it to my game to decent effect. It just makes it that much harder for on-stage opponents to react to ledgedashes, and I tried it while edgeguarding up-Bing spacies (even with Falco's much slower reverse LD), and it does a good job of making them think you're faking an edgehog and immediately covering higher options so they angle at the ledge and you regrab right before they reach it.

 

[iffy525]

marth boards you used to be ok. What happened?

The marth board is great.

 

[BTmoney]

^^best place on the boards.

 

[Deleted member]

marth boards you used to be ok. What happened?

i stopped posting because the thread got boring.

/blatant arrogance

 

[AustinRC]

Hey does everyone here know about using shield to help pivot? Just wondering..... >.>

 

[Xyzz]

Why? I've already added it to my game to decent effect. It just makes it that much harder for on-stage opponents to react to ledgedashes, and I tried it while edgeguarding up-Bing spacies (even with Falco's much slower reverse LD), and it does a good job of making them think you're faking an edgehog and immediately covering higher options so they angle at the ledge and you regrab right before they reach it.

Haha, I never believed I could fake anybody out with that. I've been using Falco's reverse ledge dash (I like that term. It's very much in the vein of pen spinning naming conventions :D) for quite some time, but purely as the most stylish way to refresh invincibility.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

I don't think it's really worth adding to your game let alone naming.

marth boards you used to be ok. What happened?

Its extremely useful and definitely worth learning.

Stop being a scrub Frank

The Marth boards are great right now.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

sung is a b1t.ch

 

[clowsui]

I don't think it's really worth adding to your game let alone naming.

marth boards you used to be ok. What happened?

this. marth gets ****ed hard if he gets hit out of it because he does not have accessible, low cooldown frontal options like falcon (uair). coming down a fair is situational and pretty damn risky.

at that point your opponent only has to stay in a spot to zone your regular ledgedash and your 'fake-out' ledgedash.

also, i've been lazy and refusing to respond to PP's (great) rebuttal post

 

[Purpletuce]

I think it is a useful little trick to help you get on the ledge easily but I think it is great to refresh invisibility when you edgeguard someone, esp someone going low. I think it can be more useful for other characters. Like when a fox uses this against a Marth he can cover you stalling with your dj, and then grab the ledge for a shine without having any risk of losing your jump. It also can be used of you think your opponent will go for a sweetspot recovery.

Also its flashy.

 

[SUNG666]

Kadano is a god

The regrab should be called "The Blur", it is incredible marth on the edge has become so much stronger

Questions
1. How long do you have to be holding down to perform a d tilt instead of d smash in a neutral state? (Even when I tilt really lightly down and press A at the same time it turns into a d smash, am I just doing it wrong?)
2. Marth's full dashes (foxtrot) into another full dash across the stage seems to be faster than wavedashing across is that true?
3. When you press shield does it come out in the first frame?

Hey does everyone here know about using shield to help pivot? Just wondering..... >.>

You'd have to dash left then dash right instantly afterwards pull up shield (which could result in a roll because if you press a direction RIGHT before you shield you'll roll). Other than that, it's a pretty consistent way to do it, you don't have any lingering momentum after you shield. I used to think that the shield needed to be up for a bit to cancel your forward momentum but I think it's only in cases of when you're full on running and not initial dashing. For the comparison of pivot jumping, I think using the shield is a bit slower.

 

[AustinRC]

@ Sung - Yeah I know what it is but I'm wondering if it's common knowledge. Basically I'm asking if I should cover it in the tutorial : P

 

[SUNG666]

Oh...I completely misread that sentence, I read it like "hey does anyone here know about shield pivoting?" as if you wanted to know what it was or something

Yea you should imo

 

[BTmoney]

at what % can u throw Peach and Puff to kill with uair and is it always (or ever) guaranteed?

 

[Kadano]

marth boards you used to be ok. What happened?

i stopped posting because the thread got boring.

If you think frame questions don’t belong in this thread, just say so. I also sometimes think this thread should rather be kept on a macroscopic/strategic level and “is this possible”-stuff should get its own thread. As it’s Dr. Peepee’s thread I’m hijacking, I’d like his opinion on this.

1. How long do you have to be holding down to perform a d tilt instead of d smash in a neutral state? (Even when I tilt really lightly down and press A at the same time it turns into a d smash, am I just doing it wrong?)

If you imagine the control stick as a coordinate system with neutral as [128,128] and ranges from 0 to 255 as left to right and down to up, all y within [76,105] result in a dtilt even on the first 4 frames. Hitting this spot is hard because it requires you to move your thumb quickly, but only a very short way.
After these 4 frames, you can dtilt even if you have the stick locked downwards.

2. Marth's full dashes (foxtrot) into another full dash across the stage seems to be faster than wavedashing across is that true?

Yes, it’s slightly faster.

3. When you press shield does it come out in the first frame?

Not always, but most of the time. The only exception I know about is when you dash forward and press L/R on frame 3 of your dash. On this frame—and only this frame—it comes out on the second frame.

at what % can u throw Peach and Puff to kill with uair and is it always (or ever) guaranteed?

I’ll look into this tomorrow (if nobody else does it first), testing this is quite tedious and it’s pretty late where I live.

 

[AustinRC]

I'm going to cover that Ado. It's not really guaranteed really it's all DI dependent. Depending on what percent they are at DI'ing up to get out of fthrow pivot fsmash doesn't work either. The top part of the fsmash clips them just enough to get a tipper. I'll be covering these things though so don't worry! :D

Edit: I don't actually have actual percent's buuut if Kadano could help that'd be AMAZING!

 

[Deleted member]

If you think frame questions don’t belong in this thread, just say so.

On the contrary, frame data is invaluable. But it doesn't leave much room for discussion either, that's all.

I blame Kevin.

 

[Bones0]

Frame data isn't invaluable. It's value in Cactuars can be determined by taking the cube root of the number of frames and multiplying it by e.

 

[BTmoney]

I’ll look into this tomorrow (if nobody else does it first), testing this is quite tedious and it’s pretty late where I live.

Whoopsies, ment to post that in the Falco thread lol but I am curious to know what percent tipper uair kills peach

 

[Kadano]

Whoopsies, ment to post that in the Falco thread lol but I am curious to know what percent tipper uair kills peach

Upthrow to upair never combos and kills. Not even on YS’s top platform.

 

[BTmoney]

Upthrow to upair never combos and kills. Not even on YS’s top platform.

Hmm yeah I'm only asking because I've seen it a lot vs. Armada. I guess it's a matter of not reacting to it or reading the DJ

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

I am curious of your opinion of Puff Umbreon. She seems amazing and awful at the same time.

 

[Demna]

Marth isn't quite ready yet. But perhaps it was more of I wasn't ready yet.

I'm very good with Marth in most matchups but I have some things to learn about fighting spacies with him. He has a lot of catching up to do in those matchups it seems. I had to learn a ton playing Mango for a few hours in Marth vs Fox/Falco all of Friday night, and I did, but I'm pretty unhappy with how I felt overall before during and after the tourney.

That just means there is work to be done.

In a general view, you can master any character you want. I've watched most of your matches and witnessed your amazing combos, and that's the main reason why I still continue to play Melee.
Keep up the good work

 

[Deleted member]

I am curious of your opinion of Puff Umbreon. She seems amazing and awful at the same time.

she's actually just amazing lol. not much to it.

 

[Bones0]

Upthrow to upair never combos and kills. Not even on YS’s top platform.

Stadium transformations.

 

[CyberZixx]

I don't see the part of Puff that is awful. Any downside is counteracted by a strength.

 

[Dr Peepee]

kadano-

this is the all purpose marth thread. ur good bro.

umbreon- you won't come to my house and fight me tho

demna- =D

 

[Mahie]

PP, could you tell me what tools you like to use against Fox to slow down the pace?

You're probably the kind of player that has that very much figured out and that doesn't do it instinctively, so the more details you can give me the better really. I find it hard to catch up/not get overrun.

(I mean, I know I can use dtilts and nairs. I just don't know how to do it properly.)

 

[Dr Peepee]

Fairs!

I like long DD'ing. Fox has to worry about that turning into Dtilt and also Fairs. If he attacks he's gotta worry about dash back pivot grab. Good Fox slower move.

Dtilt is good to catch Fox when he's DD'ing so he has to jump more or run farther from you more. That helps when he's farther away.

I don't like the Nairs vs Fox but I also don't do them like M2K even though I try lol. I just Fair him now and it makes life way better.

SH no FF drift Fair is sneaky and Fox has to slow down when you jump as a result. Not recommended to do this often but it helps.

 

[Mahie]

I'm not sure what you mean by "drift"?

Also what's your timing/visual cues when jumping in preparation for your fair? Doesn't jumping equate losing ground if they make you jump by coming to you, and then stop out of range?

Long dash dances into dtilt is actually something I don't do much. As soon as the dash is over, you imput something else right?

 

[Kadano]

I'm not sure what you mean by "drift"?

Holding towards your back so Marth moves away from his opponent to do a “spaced fair”.
Also, I’m pretty sure the dealing with Fox in neutral is dash-dancing and reacting to lasers with grab or dtilt and to approaches with dash back sh bair should be a good strategy if Fox is playing aggressively.

 

[AustinRC]

Never thought about reacting to lasers that's pretty clever! Something that helps me a lot is once I start getting close to the fox ill start doing long dashes back, a lot of the times fox players see this and assume I'm going to try and pivot grab their jump in. What I do next is I dash forward and then dash forward again to close distance. At that time they are either almost directly behind me or they shield from the unexpected movement. It's just ONE thing I do there are ways around it and what not but yeah hope it helps. *credit to PP for helping me with stepping up my movement game*

 

[Deleted member]

umbreon- you won't come to my house and fight me tho

that's cause you fight dirty.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

^Do you prefer it clean?

Here is something I do not get. Fighting jigglypuff.

For most characters, its pretty obvious how to cover them in the air because you know the various trajectories they could be taking. As this picture attempts to show falcon's various trajectories if he has his 2nd jump available to him. Depending upon the drift he could at best land at the upper platform or go to the ledge. All of which seems easy to cover if you cover say the ledge first, then work your way up depending upon if you see Falcon use his 2nd jump or not.

With jigglypuff, I do not understand how to deal with her in the air at all without taking random early swings to cover potentials routes she would end up taking. For example, if you replace falcon in this picture with Jigglypuff, she could float all the way back away form the stage, then come back to the ledge or drop straight down to the ledge. Or any sort of trajectory immediately towards the center stage. All while having the opprotunity to drift in and out of a particular locations multiple times before finally picking a direction.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Jigglypuff also falls slower than Falcon so you can actually react to her for longer. It also helps knowing Puffs don't(and shouldn't) fall into you without using at LEAST one/two jumps to try and slow you down lol. Burn your energy on the moves that matter.

At that position, I might just walk toward the edge but be ready to FH/DJ Uair. Or maybe I'd empty hop and react. Oh looked at it again, I would definitely get on the ground lol then do other stuff. Get that silliness above you. If you hit her once or twice she gets pretty easy to pseudo-combo and damage output skews in you favor.

 

[Heero Yuy]

(I'm so rusty at Melee right now after a long few weeks of AP Exams and Brawl...)

I'm finding it rather difficult to perform the entire SideB. When I do, it's just sheer chance. Particularly the 3rd slash, is there a particular frame where I need to press B?

 

[CyberZixx]

Frankly I would recommend avoiding that move all together except for the first hit which can combo into uptilt. It's no where near as useful as in Brawl. There is a particular timing for all the slashes. Mashing it out won't work. The timing for each hit of it is the same as the last if that makes sense. So it would be first hit...2...3...4. Not something like 1...2....3..4.