Tarv
Smash Journeyman
"Combo" was a poor choice in wording and I agree the MU is largely based around being patient and not making the match more complicated than it needs to be.
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Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy
- Thread starter Cactuar
- Start date
Kadano
Magical Express
Another great set is Salepate vs. Cyr, but I can’t find it on Youtube anymore, so here’s a re-up: http://www.mediafire.com/?pldd71bae177e8v
MT_
Smash Ace
How are you supposed to DI Samus's throws at mid to high percents? My experience is they even on down+away DI I get dthrown (I think) to nair. I am atrocious at this matchup and have little experience in it (there was a time that I was up in set count against a resident Sheik player who then counterpicked Samus against me essentially giving up on the set, but then I lost to his Samus anyway), so anyone that has anything to offer in this area will be greatly appreciated!
FrootLoop
Smash Lord
disagree. once you learn what to observe you can speed it up. Trying to figure out what to look at while playing faster than you can is just asking to struggle
DI that Dthrow away and you get out usually iirc.
Man stuff has been poppin in here I gotta read more of this.
Man stuff has been poppin in here I gotta read more of this.
Tarv
Smash Journeyman
Poor Samus getting no respect.
I usually DI the dthrow away like PP said but the Samus getting I play doesn't really go for the grab too often. Seems like when he does though it's rarely dthrow-->Nair, but usually dthrow-->fmash or dthrow-->dsmash. But it doesn't really come up that often. If he does go for a grab it's usually a uthrow at lower percents but that's just him more than anything. As always though my favorite DI is the "Not get grabbed in the first place" direction. (Hehe). It's not terribly difficult to not get grabbed since the grabbox (or whatever it is called) is only at the end of her grapple and the grab itself is horribly telegraphed. Spot dodge is wonderful in this situation imo.
I usually DI the dthrow away like PP said but the Samus getting I play doesn't really go for the grab too often. Seems like when he does though it's rarely dthrow-->Nair, but usually dthrow-->fmash or dthrow-->dsmash. But it doesn't really come up that often. If he does go for a grab it's usually a uthrow at lower percents but that's just him more than anything. As always though my favorite DI is the "Not get grabbed in the first place" direction. (Hehe). It's not terribly difficult to not get grabbed since the grabbox (or whatever it is called) is only at the end of her grapple and the grab itself is horribly telegraphed. Spot dodge is wonderful in this situation imo.
Have they played? if so someone link to the set please. Need work on the MU myself.
Tarv
Smash Journeyman
I don't think they have outside of teams at Apex and because it was teams m2k went Shiek anyways. He'd probably end up going shiek if they went 1v1 too.
Also my personal favorite Marth vs Samus match (or at least the one that showcases how awesome Marth is) is this one: Mew2king vs HugS
Also my personal favorite Marth vs Samus match (or at least the one that showcases how awesome Marth is) is this one: Mew2king vs HugS
clowsui
Smash Legend
man frank is definitely higher on the guru scale than me, the man even has a question mark for an avatar
every time he posts i just imagine some dude in the mystic mountains (of wisconsin?) dropping one liners packed with smash knowledge.
every time he posts i just imagine some dude in the mystic mountains (of wisconsin?) dropping one liners packed with smash knowledge.
D
Deleted member
Guest
http://dawncompk.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/india-guru-3.jpg
these guys know the guru and the money back dance.
kevin these kids have your pound 5 winnings check, lol
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Kadano, those posts were really interesting. Thanks for that.
I'm curious to see how jab and WD back fair play into the 50/50 though. I try to mix those in but having read your posts I have a feeling I've just been taking advantage of other people's mistakes; I get the gimp off the dthrow like every time if they go low and try to sweetspot. Maybe the Falcos I play against are just terrible at sweetspot DJs idk
I'm curious to see how jab and WD back fair play into the 50/50 though. I try to mix those in but having read your posts I have a feeling I've just been taking advantage of other people's mistakes; I get the gimp off the dthrow like every time if they go low and try to sweetspot. Maybe the Falcos I play against are just terrible at sweetspot DJs idk
Kadano
Magical Express
I’m pleased to serve.
Jab can’t hit perfect ss djs. Its lowest hitbubble is always higher than Falco’s hurtbubble.
WD back fair is sort of viable. Falco has to guess unless he has a reaction time under 10 frames (166 ms).
Tarv
Smash Journeyman
This is the post in which I thank the Marth mains that inspire me to get better. There are many others like it, but this one is mine:
Mew2king
Taj
Ken
Tai
Azen
Ice
Pewpewu
I.B.
Dr. PP
and many more!
Thanks.
Mew2king
Taj
Ken
Tai
Azen
Ice
Pewpewu
I.B.
Dr. PP
and many more!
Thanks.
Tarv
Smash Journeyman
*Nod* I agree. Kind of ironic how 3 of the best marths ever aren't marth mains, isn't it?
Edit: Then again, one could make the argument that m2k is a dual main between Shiek and Marth.
Edit: Then again, one could make the argument that m2k is a dual main between Shiek and Marth.
D
Deleted member
Guest
the best marth ever is indisputably ken. won nearly every national and international tournament he ever attended for many years at the peak of the game's competitive appeal. in terms of straight win ratio, ken, m2k, and armada are all completely ridiculous players in their respective time periods.
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
going to agree with umbreon on this one. just upthrow and win, dashdance camp...don't actually approach with CCable stuff and make the samus work. Impatience loses the match for you. Even more so than fighting peach
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
There are lots of character who have trouble getting down and Marth is amazing at exploiting that. You don't really get that feeling until you experience it from the other side. Play samus (or peach/luigi etc) against Marth and you will feel for hard it is to get down, then exploit it yourself.
Edit: I was replying to umbreon, didn't see there was another page.
Edit: I was replying to umbreon, didn't see there was another page.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
Use the sluggish missles. Powershielding becomes much less effective.
clowsui
Smash Legend
idk about samus punishing marth worse for impatience than peach lol
Jump as the slow missle approaches land and crouch. Once the missile is over you shield, it's actually easier to PS the slow ones : P
FrootLoop
Smash Lord
wouldn't they PS at useless angles? or do they seek samus?
edit: not that any of it really matters, since samus has to jump to do useful missiles
edit: not that any of it really matters, since samus has to jump to do useful missiles
D
Deleted member
Guest
i mean, she's in the air and missles, and you fair it. she's on the ground and you A tap it and clash. problem solved. frank is the realest homie.
D
Deleted member
Guest
nah, i just want to kill my opponents rather than play with them.
on a side note, when i was a good tournament player in like 2004 and 2005, i used to show up to Pennsylvania tournaments with a cowboy hat even though it's not my style at all. but then again i could beat everyone in my state on random chars, which goes adds a lot of swag to your tournament presence lol
i solo'd a full crew with kirby in a cowboy hat. huge testicles.
on a side note, when i was a good tournament player in like 2004 and 2005, i used to show up to Pennsylvania tournaments with a cowboy hat even though it's not my style at all. but then again i could beat everyone in my state on random chars, which goes adds a lot of swag to your tournament presence lol
i solo'd a full crew with kirby in a cowboy hat. huge testicles.
Bones0
Smash Legend
I will 4-stock you in Marth dittos while wearing a tiara (like a real king).
D
Deleted member
Guest
lol.
i mean, i generally outgrew this kind of stuff, but just lol. no one in the world can 4 stock me in marth dittos, and i haven't played since apex and i don't play marth. but just no lol. 0% chance.
i mean, i generally outgrew this kind of stuff, but just lol. no one in the world can 4 stock me in marth dittos, and i haven't played since apex and i don't play marth. but just no lol. 0% chance.
Bones0
Smash Legend
You haven't seen how good I am with Dancing Blade!
money match?
D
Deleted member
Guest
i told you i don't money match you cause i know you'll still play me anyway lol
unless we're on a stream, then we should team instead and hurt feelings lol
unless we're on a stream, then we should team instead and hurt feelings lol
rofl dang it max you troll
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
I demand the video of you in a music video with dancing blades.
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
Nice avatar
@everyone else
How do you all feel about going for Ken combos onstage/center stage?
Most people have good enough combo DI to not let you fair them 3 times (i.e. at most you will get two fairs) so I believe that the positional and or marginal gain of a fair->dair which leads to either miss tech->huge opening or tech read grab so you can uthrow->uair forever is greater than the gain you get for fair->fair. (Hell maybe fair->uair is actually the best option)
/*
edit:
does dair actually lag cancel fast enough to chase the tech consistently? it's pretty disproportional as far as the lag goes
*/
This decision making and cause effect tree is affected by MU, stage and % though. I think there should pretty much be more fair->dairs and fair->uairs really at anytime.
Max?
Bones0
Smash Legend
PPU seems to favor SHDFing, and then running with a FH dair instead of doing traditional Ken Combos. It allows him to react to the DI, and unlike a traditional Ken Combo, if they DI away on the last fair, you're on the ground instead of the air so you can just WD into fsmash/dtilt/ftilt. Idk if he is doing something in particular to make sure his fair chains always end on the ground, or if he just happened to be spaced properly for that when I saw him. As far as fair dair instead of fair/uair, I like it, but only out of SH. If you're even a little higher off the ground than SH distance, they're virtually guaranteed to react with a tech in time, and even if they tech a SH fair dair, you are on the ground soon enough to tech chase anyway.
Blood Falcon11
Smash Apprentice
Does anyone have advice in the Marth VS Zelda matchup? I know her physics are a lot like Peach.
AppleAppleAZ
Smash Journeyman
1. Dash dance a lot, and wait for her to throw out a bad aerial > Grab > uthrow.
2. Juggle her with Uairs.
3. Pretty much always grab ledge and wait when Zelda is far offstage then punish her lag if she makes it to the stage.
Don't get hit with her dash attack, and don't get caught by her Up Smash/Bair OoS.
Profit.