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excellent.Do you think you can be a little more specific on my bad decision making (I'm not trying to be defensive; genuinely want to know so I can work on it). The death at 30% was kind of silly; looking at it I probably meant to double jump to the top platform and gimmick around as a means to wear off his invincibility but he called me out on it and I also double jumped way too early.
I'll admit that I'm not exactly confident in my Marth ditto strategy being any good... Marth can't play like he can vs other characters with his "aggressive zoning" kind of thing because he doesn't hold a range advantage in the ditto. So I feel like I have to play kind of janky and rely on reads to establish any sort of winning position or first hit.
As for shield camping at the ledge; being fthrown off (even if you know it's coming and you DI so you don't get fsmashed or something silly) isn't exactly a good thing for Marth... I don't see why shield camping would be a good idea? You still are put in a position to recover and the opponent is still put in a position to edgeguard.
And can you elaborate on how Marth can abuse himself on Battlefield? I'm not sure how it differs from other stages too much; I actually like Battlefield a lot compared to DL and FoD.
the bad decision-making is in regards to your choices and timing. in almost every instance, you act preemptively without needing to act, you can simply wait because of the situation. for example, missed drop off bair edge guards. upthrow > upair combos that your opponent can jump out of and don't actually combo. more obvious examples include forward throw > missed fsmash or the blind dash attack. not only are these awful, they're particularly exploitable by you, the other player because of how bad they are. your play is sub-optimal in part because you're doing them, and in part because you're not punishing them from your opponent. i watched the rest of the marth dittos to confirm it.
If the marth is bad, his range doesn't matter. it just doesn't. my ness could out space the marth play in these videos. that's not to be insulting to you and i probably wouldn't win, but it's to make a point; when marth does something bad, it's REALLY BAD because of his holes once you exit the neutral game and how bad he is defensively once put into a bad position. if fox gets into a bad position, he can shine or jump away or something and the problem is solved. if marth is put into a bad position, he's usually there until he's dead. playing marth correctly does require some reads, but the same could be said of any character. as you get higher into play, sometimes your opponents are so good and something happens and you just have to guess. this is NOT the standard situation though. almost all of marth's problems can be solved by moving in ways that are difficult for the opponent to deal with. that means not much shielding, not landing on peach's shield, etc. most of this stuff has been beaten to death since apex in this thread.
being fthrown at the edge in the marth ditto isn't threatening in any way unless you suck at DI. you can DI off every time and grab the edge or 2nd jump grab the edge under marth's hitboxes, at which point you get a free waveland up invincible from the edge. that means that your opponent is either killing you 4% at a time, or much more likely they're going to **** up and you can do something that's actually threatening. a LOT of marth's things are not threatening in any way when not used correctly. for example, go back and open the link to that video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzpgVwvGwoU#t=47m
go to 47:18 ish you get up and the opposing marth grabs you and forward throws you. this essentially says "ok, you're at a disadvantage, and if i can keep you there, you're dead". and then the first thing he does is whiff a fair at you, and suddenly he is no longer a threat to you. this is bad because he never had any interest in keeping you in a bad position until you're dead, he basically just let you go for free. it's just not threatening, but still very exploitable for you because now you know that by DIing the way you would be anyway, he'll basically NEVER kill you off the side unless he gets lucky or surprises you or something jank. removing this stuff from your game play and leaving the threatening aspects of marth's game make him very dangerous very quickly. let's make a comparison:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBMgkr-s4jI
let's be academic and just take the first stock. this first stock is not particularly great, but the context is so true it doesn't even matter. you can watch the neutral game until the conversion, which is a fthrow @ 2:24. armada correctly DIs to the edge. however, kevin doesn't blindly swing here. he basically says to peach "ok, i have you by the edge, and now i'm going to keep you in a bad position until you die". and for the entire rest of that stock, the marth remains in control simply by reacting. every time peach says "check?", marth reacts with an answer. the most important thing to note here is that he's threatening without swinging the sword. this is what good marth play looks like. you can establish a positional advantage at almost any time just by grabbing and putting the opponent in a gay position. no follow-up is necessary. most of the time, you can just upthrow marth in the mirror and abuse the fact that he sucks at landing until you kill him with whatever you want. once you "get it" it really is that easy.
i'd take fountain over battlefield any day. marth has the same problem on BF that he does on DL64: he's not threatening to an opponent on the top platform at all. at all, he has nothing. next time you play a marth ditto, just light shield on the top platform, angle the shield as necessary, and shield DI so you slide off the platform sometimes. he absolutely can't do anything to himself. in many cases, i take the marth ditto to DL64 assuming that my opponent will suck and that i'll get the first kill, and from there i'll just stall and make easy trades OOS because of how little he can do about it. seriously, half an hour. he has no pressure with mid-air swings in the neutral game (part of why blind nair/dash attack are so bad) and you can just exploit that. seriously, practice it for 30 minutes. it should be really easy given your technical ability. trial + error through it.
bones: i only go to events now when my friends invite me. i don't particularly like the MD/VA scene.
edit: the non-melee player nailed everything. lmao