KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Have fun, play naturally in your tournament matches, and go in ready to learn.
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- Thread starter Cactuar
- Start date
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
so mastershake, i thought that the issue was me wavelanding but that is not the case. Even if i I don't waveland to refresh my side b with marth and run off I can still side B to stall. However, sometimes it seems to continue falling anyway. I was making sure to only short up on stage in between iterations.
I may need to make a video to get someone to explain this effect. But basically most of the time I run off stage and side b and hover and then jump back to the ledge, but sometimes I just drop as if I didn't side B at all.
I thought it was a landfall special issue, but it's not me wavelanding or airdodging or up bing to refresh, so if that were the case I would fail to stall every time.
However, what I'm actually experiencing is just a rare failure to stall.
So confusing, definitely need to vid this and test it
I may need to make a video to get someone to explain this effect. But basically most of the time I run off stage and side b and hover and then jump back to the ledge, but sometimes I just drop as if I didn't side B at all.
I thought it was a landfall special issue, but it's not me wavelanding or airdodging or up bing to refresh, so if that were the case I would fail to stall every time.
However, what I'm actually experiencing is just a rare failure to stall.
So confusing, definitely need to vid this and test it
Bones0
Smash Legend
I don't think WLing onto the stage from the ledge refreshes it. I think you have to be on the ground, then airborne, then back on the ground for it to refresh. So just do an empty SH, run off and side-B, recover, get back on stage, and repeat beginning with another empty SH.
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
so would an empty short hop refresh it and an aerial would not? i'm going ot test it right now. I hate not being able to explain to my student what causes her random deaths.
edit: thanks bones you are correct. AC nair or sh on will refresh your side b from the ledge but ledge hopped sh nair l cancel will not
edit: thanks bones you are correct. AC nair or sh on will refresh your side b from the ledge but ledge hopped sh nair l cancel will not
MasterShake
Smash Lord
Glad that got answered because I didn't know that.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Yep, just remember WDing also counts as leaving the ground (because you must have left the ground to airdodge, obv). This means if you're edgeguarding and use your side-B and then LH a bair/dair or something, simply WDing back onto the ledge (or in place if you want to stay on stage) will refresh it without wasting crucial time.
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
just for the record what i posted a while ago was wrong. i thought it correctly in my head and then posted it wrong.it's fixed now. sh on of course refreshes your side b..the main thing is L-canceled aerials do not refresh your side b.
Also i had the most amazing day of personal practice..learned like 4-5 super important timings with peach including a lot of turnip stuff cause my turnip game is awful..decided that not having to move your finger off of the Cstick to hit A is really important so that you can uptilt or fsmash quickly based on reaction (it's not going to matter except at borderline percents when the reaction timing is really high..but i prefer to know my grip is somewhat optimal).
I would actually prefer to just move my thumb from C stick to A but for this to be equivalently good, i would need to be able to fsmash with A without charging. I feel like I'm losing a frame or two compared to the cstick fsmash about 70% of the time...and I don't know how feasible it is to get a frame perfect A smash so you don't charge.. it is really important for comboing purposes.
but changing a grip slightly seems easier than getting that timing.
i then practiced tight timing uptilt sh back rising fair/rising nair setups for an hour...so good..
also learned the spacing that an upair on a person on platform sets up reverse uptilt into spike vs being too close afterward so they end up just teching on stage.
Comboing so much fun.
I actually was also curious about rising sh fairs at low percent with fastfall AC. This has much better combo capability compared to nair though nair takes stage really well. I feel like on non-spacies it may be better than the nair I'm using..though let's be honest..how many times do you face a nonspacie in tourney these days lol
Also i had the most amazing day of personal practice..learned like 4-5 super important timings with peach including a lot of turnip stuff cause my turnip game is awful..decided that not having to move your finger off of the Cstick to hit A is really important so that you can uptilt or fsmash quickly based on reaction (it's not going to matter except at borderline percents when the reaction timing is really high..but i prefer to know my grip is somewhat optimal).
I would actually prefer to just move my thumb from C stick to A but for this to be equivalently good, i would need to be able to fsmash with A without charging. I feel like I'm losing a frame or two compared to the cstick fsmash about 70% of the time...and I don't know how feasible it is to get a frame perfect A smash so you don't charge.. it is really important for comboing purposes.
but changing a grip slightly seems easier than getting that timing.
i then practiced tight timing uptilt sh back rising fair/rising nair setups for an hour...so good..
also learned the spacing that an upair on a person on platform sets up reverse uptilt into spike vs being too close afterward so they end up just teching on stage.
Comboing so much fun.
I actually was also curious about rising sh fairs at low percent with fastfall AC. This has much better combo capability compared to nair though nair takes stage really well. I feel like on non-spacies it may be better than the nair I'm using..though let's be honest..how many times do you face a nonspacie in tourney these days lol
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
Bl00dyBizkitz
Smash Cadet
God I am so hype for that documentary.
On a side note, Ken can still Ken Combo. Good ****.
Bones0
Smash Legend
I am visibly geeking out right now.
I am very afraid of my reaction to ken playing smash longer than that if it's in the documentary
don't kill me samox
don't kill me samox
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Even you huh.. Hmm.. I dont understand that kind of hype...
basically, ken was the big guy when I started playing, he's the larger than life person I never got to meet and lose that vision about. m2k was the same for me but I actually got to play him and then eventually beat him. ken is always that superstar that I could never be in the same room with.
plus, I now love him for his ridiculously interesting and intuitive movement. WTF
post 24K shamelessly dedicated to ken being tight
plus, I now love him for his ridiculously interesting and intuitive movement. WTF
post 24K shamelessly dedicated to ken being tight
clowsui
Smash Legend
good stuff kid
ken using DB is hilarious
i wonder if ken will be motivated to enter other events after the documentary is released?
...
...
nah
ken using DB is hilarious
i wonder if ken will be motivated to enter other events after the documentary is released?
...
...
nah
D
Deleted member
Guest
[06:01] Kevin: IM A NOOB
[06:01] mycatgoesmow: wes is the homie
[06:01] mycatgoesmow: can i quote that
[06:01] mycatgoesmow: LOL
[06:01] Kevin: dang it
[06:01] Kevin: LMAO
[06:01] mycatgoesmow: drfbkj;dfb
[06:01] mycatgoesmow: -dead-
[06:01] Kevin: i always do this to myself on aim
[06:01] Kevin: LMAOOOOOO
godlike
[06:01] mycatgoesmow: wes is the homie
[06:01] mycatgoesmow: can i quote that
[06:01] mycatgoesmow: LOL
[06:01] Kevin: dang it
[06:01] Kevin: LMAO
[06:01] mycatgoesmow: drfbkj;dfb
[06:01] mycatgoesmow: -dead-
[06:01] Kevin: i always do this to myself on aim
[06:01] Kevin: LMAOOOOOO
godlike
I regret nothing
Beat!
Smash Master
Ken's Marth was looking surprisingly fresh.
That Ken Combo made me laugh, haha.
That Ken Combo made me laugh, haha.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
Yeah, I'm surprised he remembered as much as he seemed to.
Now he has to enter Apex 2013.
Now he has to enter Apex 2013.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Like I've been saying, him and Isai have been secretly training for months and are going to storm Apex for 'dem cash prizes.
But seriously, I was pretty impressed. Time to sit back and watch all the newbie Marth try to spam side-B combos.
But seriously, I was pretty impressed. Time to sit back and watch all the newbie Marth try to spam side-B combos.
Bl00dyBizkitz
Smash Cadet
...Is it sad that I've been trying to use side-B combos as a sort of utility for awhile? And yeah, I'd definitely fall under the category of "newbie Marth"
Divinokage
Smash Legend
You're a newbie to begin with if you aren't using every tool to your advantage. =)
Bones0
Smash Legend
You'd be a noob if you didn't experiment with every single move. Basically what Kage said.
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
there are times side b is better....i just haevn't taken the time yet to think about them...also on spacies they often strictly aren't better because your grabs give such free guaranteed damage.
I definitely will start working on using them on some of the mid-tiers with bad recoveries
edit: the reason side b is underused is because marth always has a better punish if he was not in the middle of a dash...optimal side b usage would be moving back and starting the move if you see the roll, but taking something stronger if you have time to get a better position.
I definitely will start working on using them on some of the mid-tiers with bad recoveries
edit: the reason side b is underused is because marth always has a better punish if he was not in the middle of a dash...optimal side b usage would be moving back and starting the move if you see the roll, but taking something stronger if you have time to get a better position.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Try side-Bing spacies at like 70%+, or whenever they start falling over from it. That's when I see it used successfully by M2K, Taj, PPU, etc. It just seems way better to do a quick side-B and get good KB from the third hit instead of grabbing and failing to do anything out of grabs 5 times in a row (and then consequently getting shine spiked or pillared).
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
it's not a question of whether it can be used successfully. it's a question of whether it does more than just grabbing them would. a grab at 70 will also lead to them offstage and suffers no risk of CC either
edited: dont' know why i said death..neither of them is guaranteed to lead to death at all positions..but grab can always do as much as a side b combo against spacies.
edited: dont' know why i said death..neither of them is guaranteed to lead to death at all positions..but grab can always do as much as a side b combo against spacies.
Bones0
Smash Legend
I must just be bad at getting spacies off stage from grabs.
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
well at super low percents it isn't guaranteed..but side b at those percents is super risky and won't send them offstage either.
however, i'm not recommending against side B usage at all..i actually think that I need to start realizing when I don't have time for a guaranteed grab in midpercents and just take the guaranteed side b during the dash instead.
also on char like ganon where upthrow has limited usefulness..side b is superior to grab into techchase at midpercents as well. It's optimal against normal weight class when upthrow is bad..so basically vs falcon and ganon.
it also has excellent utility when you are almost out of space at the edge for dodging, though lately i prefer just jabbing when i feel boxed out instead. Both are pretty good.. haven't really been able to decide which is better overall. I'm guessing jab until they start being patient for the jab, then dash back and side b if they come in , dash back and attack them if they don't...is probably pretty good.
So many things that I know are good from testing but that I still don't do in matches..
however, I'm not the only one who fails to practice enough to implement things that are obvious and easy to fix.. i recently watched a tourney of a top peach and thought 'how the heck can top peach players not even know how to freaking edgeguard fox properly after so many years...and how do they manage to win anyway..so I decided peach must be pretty good if top players can win tourneys while dropping multiple guaranteed edgeguards a set'
however, i'm not recommending against side B usage at all..i actually think that I need to start realizing when I don't have time for a guaranteed grab in midpercents and just take the guaranteed side b during the dash instead.
also on char like ganon where upthrow has limited usefulness..side b is superior to grab into techchase at midpercents as well. It's optimal against normal weight class when upthrow is bad..so basically vs falcon and ganon.
it also has excellent utility when you are almost out of space at the edge for dodging, though lately i prefer just jabbing when i feel boxed out instead. Both are pretty good.. haven't really been able to decide which is better overall. I'm guessing jab until they start being patient for the jab, then dash back and side b if they come in , dash back and attack them if they don't...is probably pretty good.
So many things that I know are good from testing but that I still don't do in matches..
however, I'm not the only one who fails to practice enough to implement things that are obvious and easy to fix.. i recently watched a tourney of a top peach and thought 'how the heck can top peach players not even know how to freaking edgeguard fox properly after so many years...and how do they manage to win anyway..so I decided peach must be pretty good if top players can win tourneys while dropping multiple guaranteed edgeguards a set'
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
Or the Foxes are also bad. :\
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
lol, i guess that's true...but to me failing edgeguards is instant gg....nothing the foxes did in those games looked as embarrassingly stupid as running off and flailing around like the peach did.. the peach ran off too early without invuln when fox was hit by a low percent bair and wasn't pushed far enough horizontally to be able to do runoff edgeguards...
this led to her getting hit by the firefox of course
edited for grammar..why do i always such bad grammar when i forget to proofread.
I've definitely won matches where my edgeguarding was sloppy..but i guess I expect more out of play from higher level players.
but i guess to be fair the fox probably made a dozen little mistakes that were enough to make up for the peach's one large one
this led to her getting hit by the firefox of course
edited for grammar..why do i always such bad grammar when i forget to proofread.
I've definitely won matches where my edgeguarding was sloppy..but i guess I expect more out of play from higher level players.
but i guess to be fair the fox probably made a dozen little mistakes that were enough to make up for the peach's one large one
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
Any help guys
Bones0
Smash Legend
Where in MD are you (I probably already asked before lol)?
10/10
How do I get to the ledge by wavelanding as fast as Mew2King? I always seem to fastfall past it and never grab on, and just wavelanding or turn-around-bair is often too slow.
edit: I did that fair->fthrow->pivot fsmash on puff thing that Leffen made in srslies today! It was awesome. also grammar edit.
.Chipmunk.
Smash Ace
Do you mean WD back and grab the ledge? You simply tap down once you get off stage. If you hold down you cant grab the stage.
Biglard
Smash Journeyman
You just have to let the stick go back to neutral position right after you input the fast fall, before you get out of the zone where you can actually grab the ledge. The faster your character falls, the harder it is, but with Marth for instance I don't find it really difficult to do.
Considering we're on Peepee's topic, I'll assume you play Falco and wish you good luck, I still have a hard time doing this consistently with spacies...
Oh damn, what's with the title of the topic? D:
Oh damn, what's with the title of the topic? D:
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
let go of fastfall earlier
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
by the way, i have a controller question directed towards cactuar.
whenever a control stick has begun to "slide" (like, it'll hold left for a while after tapping left for only a little bit), is this a structural problem with the control stick box or is it an electrical problem with the PCB? do you know how to fix it?
whenever a control stick has begun to "slide" (like, it'll hold left for a while after tapping left for only a little bit), is this a structural problem with the control stick box or is it an electrical problem with the PCB? do you know how to fix it?
.Chipmunk.
Smash Ace
I really want to answer this one but you asked cactuar, so I'll just wait for his reply and then confirm.