Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Dr Peepee]

Ohhhh that

Man if Mango hadn't Nair'd I don't think that would've worked, but I guess that means it has a pretty situational use then haha.

 

[Bones0]

Well yeah he just sort of spaced it, but if you're doing it in place of a second fair (assuming they aren't grounded), then it's pretty reliable. I know it works in Marth dittos. You can also utilt or grab instead of up-B, or shield after the nair and shield grab them if they like to aerial out of fair combos.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I feel pretty uncomfortable about doing this, but since I haven't tried it then it's not really fair to dismiss it. I'll play with it and hopefully come to some conclusion haha.

Nair's really interesting so who knows?

 

[Bones0]

I feel pretty uncomfortable about doing this, but since I haven't tried it then it's not really fair to dismiss it. I'll play with it and hopefully come to some conclusion haha.

Nair's really interesting so who knows?

* *

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I didn't even know Dair came out in time.....yeah if it does it'd be great on shields and for poking haha.

It does, but the timing feels fairly strict. I was surprised SH fair -> dair always shield poked fox and falco if they didn't angle their shield down at all.

 

[Beat!]

You guys should drop whatever gimmicks you're currently working on and start practicing shield drop uair (and shield dropping in general) instead.

 

[Dr Peepee]

It does, but the timing feels fairly strict. I was surprised SH fair -> dair always shield poked fox and falco if they didn't angle their shield down at all.

Word, I'm gonna play with this. Good look.


Beat: ughhhhh need to work on shield dropping. Noted on Uair though, thanks.

 

[Tee ay eye]

easy way to shield drop:

tilt your stick straight to the left or right

rotate your stick somewhat quickly downwards 45 degrees

i don't think you can do it "too fast," but i think the main problem is that going to fast will make you overextend and spotdodge instead

 

[Dr Peepee]

Well I've tried stuff like that before and couldn't consistently get it, but I'll certainly try it again.

 

[F A N G]

So shield dropping is just:

In shield on platform > stick to the SW position (if facing left)

Or is there something more?

 

[knightpraetor]

yeah i'm still stuck at around 50% shield drop on a good day, but that guy we played HIV+, definitely shield dropped too many times in my matches with him for me to believe he has less than 80% consistency..but i think he said something about only being able to do it when facing a certain direction and having trouble with the other direction

 

[MT_]

I'm convinced that the shield drop mechanics primarily factor speed (which indirectly influences distance) of the control stick. It doesn't take into account the horizontal positioning of the stick, so it's possible to shield drop just by going straight down from the middle if you have the correct control/speed. Pretty much you have to bring the control stick to (what I think is) halfway between middle and down at a "medium" speed and the shield drop will happen.

Tilting a little bit and then hitting the SW//SE positions is helpful because it gives you a more concrete location to aim for within the control stick, but the most important factor here is still the speed imo. I was testing it earlier and I noticed that when my "speed control" was spot on, tilting forward before dropping didn't make any difference in my success rate than just going straight down. In fact I might have been more successful going straight down because it's a singular motion (as opposed to tilt forward -> then toward the SW//SE).

Mixed feelings on these two methods but will have to test more.

 

[knightpraetor]

thanks for the info, that's actually interesting..i haven't tried going straight down but i agree the speed is the most important factor

 

[Beat!]

Finding a steady, controlled pace that you're comfortable with and can easily "remember" makes shield dropping easier to get consistent with.

And there are several different ways of doing it.
-Straight down
-Slightly diagonally down (I do this one)
-Tilt to the side, then straight down

But yeah, once you feel you're consistent "enough", start practicing shield drop uair on dem CPU spacies (and others too if you want, but I think against spacies is when it will be used the most). It can turn a previously terrible position into a combo starter.

 

[Blistering Speed]

You guys should drop whatever gimmicks you're currently working on and start practicing shield drop uair (and shield dropping in general) instead.

Shield drop U Air is genuinely ridiculous.

 

[Beat!]

Ind eed.

 

[Dart!]

It's a good mixup on peoples wake up on platforms so you don't get getup attacked

 

[ArcNatural]

Shield drop U Air is genuinely ridiculous.

I use two versions of this.

If they are coming from above me I tend to drop -> upair -> fastfall to get more of the hit box out. Otherwise I always drop -> fast fall aerial.

Does anyone else mix it up like this?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Why do a move besides Uair? Fair comes out above you so I assume that's what the mixup is?

 

[Niko45]

Fair hits above your head on frame 4 which is pretty awesome

 

[Bl00dyBizkitz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQA7vbttZkQ

Because I'm such a visual learner. And I'm not that good yet.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Wow, I hate to say it, but I actually have a n00b question again. Actually, that's probably a good thing. I've known for a good while that thing about nair being able to have 4 frames of lag instead of 7 if you did with the right timing, so I've always done rising nairs (As soon as possible after the jump). However, I've noticed lately that if I wait till the apex of the jump to do a nair there is actually less lag on the end of the move then if I do it earlier. I went and looked at the frame data before I asked the question, and it says auto cancel is 25> and FF is at frame 20 from SH. So my question is, why the difference, what's causing it, and what am I missing/not knowing about nair?

 

[knightpraetor]

there are variations in how you autocancel, actually instead of doing a fully rising nair if you wait a few frames it is more optimal because the final hit will hit lower and it's still possible to autocancel. i'm pretty sure if you did this perfectly you could wall out fox very well with low lag (though typically m2k just used rising autocancel nairs at a wider spacing where the fox can't get in from underneath with anything except running shine),

also in addition to starting the AC nair a bit later, optimally you should also still fastfall the nair. However, the timing on the fastfall will change based on whether you are doing a nair moving forward/backward/in place (same timing) and nairs where you move slightly forward then cancel your momentum.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

there are variations in how you autocancel, actually instead of doing a fully rising nair if you wait a few frames it is more optimal because the final hit will hit lower and it's still possible to autocancel. i'm pretty sure if you did this perfectly you could wall out fox very well with low lag (though typically m2k just used rising autocancel nairs at a wider spacing where the fox can't get in from underneath with anything except running shine),

also in addition to starting the AC nair a bit later, optimally you should also still fastfall the nair. However, the timing on the fastfall will change based on whether you are doing a nair moving forward/backward/in place (same timing) and nairs where you move slightly forward then cancel your momentum.

What do you mean by variations in how you autocancel? My assumption has always been that autocancel means the move is over by the time you reach the ground and so you have your jump lag instead of your move lag, and if you do it late enough the move hasn't had time to really 'start up' so you get your jump lag. I guess I don't really know what autocancel is then.

 

[knightpraetor]

i mean you are right in what autocancel means but i don't think the nair has to be frame perfect coming out so you could delay it a couple frames...if i do rising nair the first frame after my jump i definitely have time after the nair in which i'm fastfalling that ....

actually now that i think about it i bet i can't fastfall and get the low autocancel nair. but anyway the typical autocancel nair doesn't cover low but has a fastfall, making for extreme mobility, good aerial zoning and almost no lag..

however, i'm betting that you could either do the fastfall later or not at all do the nair a few frames later and hvae it hit lower and still autocancel, cause i know i've seen my AC nairs hit a fox running in before to shine even though most of the time the fox can just go under

 

[knightpraetor]

also, niko can you get me the match at 32 min vs PC on yoshi's?

http://www.twitch.tv/niko453/b/319168051

actually if you could just rip all your matches i would like them but i figure that's too much work, but it's really annoying to keep wanting to go back to look at something since twitch tv doesn't let me click on any second i want..also i usually study matches in slow mode so i like to get videos actually downloaded to my computer or put on youtube or whatever.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

i mean you are right in what autocancel means but i don't think the nair has to be frame perfect coming out so you could delay it a couple frames...if i do rising nair the first frame after my jump i definitely have time after the nair in which i'm fastfalling that ....

actually now that i think about it i bet i can't fastfall and get the low autocancel nair. but anyway the typical autocancel nair doesn't cover low but has a fastfall, making for extreme mobility, good aerial zoning and almost no lag..

however, i'm betting that you could either do the fastfall later or not at all do the nair a few frames later and hvae it hit lower and still autocancel, cause i know i've seen my AC nairs hit a fox running in before to shine even though most of the time the fox can just go under

So if that's true, what I'm doing is nairing at the apex of the jump or close to it, -then- fast falling and l-canceling and it seems to me that my lag time is less than what it is if I nair ASAP, fast fall, l-cancel. Which, seems backward imo. The obvious answer to me is that I'm not l-cancelling the rising nair, but I've done l-cancel and non l-cancel and there is a clear difference in lag time (so I know I'm canceling it) and yet the apex nair still seems faster.

Speaking of canceling, do you guys use the word -cancelling- or -canceling-?

 

[Niko45]

also, niko can you get me the match at 32 min vs PC on yoshi's?

http://www.twitch.tv/niko453/b/319168051

actually if you could just rip all your matches i would like them but i figure that's too much work, but it's really annoying to keep wanting to go back to look at something since twitch tv doesn't let me click on any second i want..also i usually study matches in slow mode so i like to get videos actually downloaded to my computer or put on youtube or whatever.

Do you know how to do this? I'm a noob at twitch tv.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Do you know how to do this? I'm a noob at twitch tv.

When you begin watching the video, in the bottom right you'll see the little 'cog' button. Click that and you'll get sub options. The first one will be a pair of scissors with the word 'highlight' next to it. Click that, then it will give you a few options that will allow you to select a start time and an end time for said 'highlight' as well as a title and description and possibly some other things that I cannot recall off the top of my head.

 

[knightpraetor]

not a clue. i assumed the account owner could rip the files that he uploaded, but i'm not sure:\ i really want to be able to get vids, alternatively just do me a favor and record some vids and send them to me over skype/gtalk sometime (username knightpraetor)

I mainly want vs fox and vs sheik. There are real shortages of decent vids these days. I guess I have seen enough decent vids vs fox but honestly i have trouble finding all of m2k's old vids, i wish there were a video thread.

and vs sheik..the vids don't even exist.

yeah we really need a marth video thread. I'm lazy and don't usually record, but even if we had only one or two decent sets by other players it would be something to watch and look for new ideas or options

 

[Bones0]

You can download videos from YouTube with some Chrome extension (Idk what it's called because I only ever had it on my other comp; just search for "YouTube downloader" or something).

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Niko, I explained it a few posts up. I hope you actually read it and understand it.

Bones, Knight. That goes for you guys too.

 

[knightpraetor]

ok, thanks. Useful knowledge, so i have more videos to watch. shortage of marths these days....

also lately i'm having trouble focusing on matches for more than 2-3 rounds. Try hard is way too much work, and mahone keeps talking about these glory days when we played for fun

 

[.Chipmunk.]

ok, thanks. Useful knowledge, so i have more videos to watch. shortage of marths these days....

also lately i'm having trouble focusing on matches for more than 2-3 rounds. Try hard is way too much work, and mahone keeps talking about these glory days when we played for fun

I play low tiers when I wanna just play for fun.

 

[knightpraetor]

that's how i feel chip. maybe i should take a day off and play some low tiers.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I'm liking Marth more and more. I just can't figure out how to fight Peach. Oh the irony. -_-

Falco's who don't laser are my favorite.

 

[Niko45]

I just play falco when I want to relax and have fun cause you just press buttons and don't think very much and win more than you usually do.

...wait

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

My SD rate increases drastically with Falco, but my chances of winning with Falco increase even more against Sheik.

 

[FrootLoop]

I just play falco when I want to relax and have fun cause you just press buttons and don't think very much and win more than you usually do.

...wait

just listen to your heart and play falco already

 

[.Chipmunk.]

I'm liking Marth more and more. I just can't figure out how to fight Peach. Oh the irony. -_-

Falco's who don't laser are my favorite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm8KUKEE5Rk - start here for MU talk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4073GHgKA8 - watch more of it played out.