Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[OverLord]

I disagree, Uair is way better in my opinion

Utilt got lot of punishable lag, Uair obviously less, and it combos with others Uairs or Utilts, or Fsmash, or whateva.. if you hit with the tip you can combo the **** out of a spacy, and they can't DI as far away as for an Utilt.

M2K and Ice usually use more of Uairs than Utilt. Actually at Berlin Calling (a tourney from last spring) talking with Ice about this stuff these were his answers. He tought me a lot of things and basically if you can do really fast Uairs, then that's always the best choice. The faster way is using Claw Style, but you can do fast enough Uairs with some training.


Obviously is just my opinion, lot of Marths use Utilts more and it works fine, personally I just think is safer/faster/better doing Uairs.

 

[Strong Badam]

oh, so yeah, that's interesting to know.

what are you allowed to interrupt with? i don't think you can dash, but you CAN buffer a turnaround... you can jab... what else?

everything except shield and crouch (on downtilt)
you can hold left or right and r/l to interrupt it with shield tho.

M2K does dthrow -> turnaround dtilt -> dash jc grab as a tech chase when they tech toward marth.

if you guys can't shorthop with your index finger yet, you're a bit behind. it's the best way to shffl uairs.

 

[KAOSTAR]

I disagree, Uair is way better in my opinion

Utilt got lot of punishable lag, Uair obviously less, and it combos with others Uairs or Utilts, or Fsmash, or whateva.. if you hit with the tip you can combo the **** out of a spacy, and they can't DI as far away as for an Utilt.

M2K and Ice usually use more of Uairs than Utilt. Actually at Berlin Calling (a tourney from last spring) talking with Ice about this stuff these were his answers. He tought me a lot of things and basically if you can do really fast Uairs, then that's always the best choice. The faster way is using Claw Style, but you can do fast enough Uairs with some training.


Obviously is just my opinion, lot of Marths use Utilts more and it works fine, personally I just think is safer/faster/better doing Uairs.

u can up tilt faster than you can shffl uair.

why are you getting punished for up tilting fox laying on a platform?

wtf is Ice?

they both have their uses but if fox is laying on the platform I prefer up tilt because I don't have to commit to anything until I wanna attack and I think up tilt is harder to di off a platform than uair is.

 

[OverLord]

xD

Man, really

Uair got LESS lag. When you Utilt Marth stands watching up like A LOT, if a spacy just crouch your Utilt and get down of the platfor with a Dair it will hit you for SURE.

Shffling Uairs (obviously usign Claw Style, that means Short Hopping with you index) it's MUCH FASTER than Utilt.

Ice is european best Marth right now (with Makenshi) -.-'

 

[Strong Badam]

proper DI on utilt creates more distance between marth and the opponent than on uair.
utilt may allow you to wait a bit longer, but the endlag is a lot more so committing to it is a bigger risk tahn shffl uair.

 

[KAOSTAR]

lol aight then.

 

[Vincent46]

everything except shield and crouch (on downtilt)
you can hold left or right and r/l to interrupt it with shield tho.

M2K does dthrow -> turnaround dtilt -> dash jc grab as a tech chase when they tech toward marth.

if you guys can't shorthop with your index finger yet, you're a bit behind. it's the best way to shffl uairs.

Or just jump with the analog stick like a real man! I guess. (obviously only when it's required to).

Also you can't cancel dtilt into B moves, I think - namely counter. But yeah, just take a baby step forward then you're able to do whatever you want.

 

[Tee ay eye]

AZ's gonna bring Marth back

You heard it here first

 

[OverLord]

actually I don't use index to Uair, I jump with X and then tilt the c-stick up with the base of my thumb

I compared me doing uairs this way with one doing it with index and there's no difference, it works for me, but I guess this is just for the way a use my thumb, I tilt c-stick with the bone connecting thumb to the hand lol

 

[stelzig]

xD

Man, really

Uair got LESS lag. When you Utilt Marth stands watching up like A LOT, if a spacy just crouch your Utilt and get down of the platfor with a Dair it will hit you for SURE.

afaik you can't CC attacks right after a tech, and they'd just end up falling to the ground again. In that situations you can follow up again faster from a utilt still though obviously.

 

[OverLord]

you can tech an Utilt on the floor pressing down, that's what I meant, obviously you are right, but that wasn't the point

 

[stelzig]

And that's still fast enough? Well alright then.

 

[OverLord]

yeah but it obviously depends on who you're facing

random players usually falls in Utilts and don't know what to do when Marth is under a platform

a good spacy is gonna jump away ASAP or tech in place and crouch->go down with an aerial

 

[earla]

uair> utilt always the case?

ok,

1. does dancing blade have trascendent priority in melee?

2. alot of the time i will get a dthrow near the edge on someone. they're smart enough to not double jump. how do i punish them most effectively?

3. i notice m2k goes off stage to edge guard alot. why would you need to go off stage to edgeguard if marth has the tools to do it on stage? are their advantages where u have to go off stage to edge guard or situations where u have to?

thanks

 

[Tee ay eye]

uair> utilt always the case?

ok,

1. does dancing blade have trascendent priority in melee?

2. alot of the time i will get a dthrow near the edge on someone. they're smart enough to not double jump. how do i punish them most effectively?

3. i notice m2k goes off stage to edge guard alot. why would you need to go off stage to edgeguard if marth has the tools to do it on stage? are their advantages where u have to go off stage to edge guard or situations where u have to?

thanks

1. if by "transcendent", you mean "absolute priority", then my answer is "LOLNO "
2. uhhhh, you might be able to follow them down and then reverse upB or regular neutral B, or you might be able to steal the edge from them to make them use a recovery move.

3. because you have a higher chance of killing them if you go offstage a lot of the time.... on-stage edgeguarding isn't perfect....

 

[OverLord]

I suggest you to do so:

get the grab near the ledge and dthrow, then turn around and Dtilt and watch what they do

- they get hit by the dtilt while double jumping = they're dead

if they do this, then they will probably try not to jump again next time, so next time you won't do a dtilt, but fall down and hit 'em with a Fair, then another Fair, then you grab the ledge and you win

- they jump immediatly and hit you with an aerial

if they do so, they're smart. But you are smarter, so next time you will: wavedash backwards and do something to punish their aerial, or down-b their aerial, or f-smashing 'em (it won't work if they're fast enough), try to mix up, be original.

- they don't double jump instantly, they wait and grab the ledge perfectly

if they do so, next time you will fall over the ledge with a wavedash and a Fair facing the stage -> up-B, or just grab the ledge with a wavedash so they are forced to use the recovery, as Tai said.


In general, the first time you get the dthrow near the ledge, just wait to see what are their habits, and punish 'em next time. It is ESSENTIAL against Foxes and Falcos, 'cause they have like 4-5 ways to get on the stage, and you must be able to punish all of 'em. M2K usually just dthrow and dtilt the first time, so if Falco/Fox jumps they get hit, if they jump back and forward-b, he jabs, if they jump back and Up-B, just hit 'em off the ledge with a Fair, but it depends on situation. If they walljumps, wait for they're up-b/forward-b and jab/dtilt/fsmash.

The safer way for a fastfaller to get back on stage after a dthrow is jumping ASAP and dodging on stage. You can punish it with re-grabbing and restart the edgeguard.

 

[earla]

cheers. im practicing pivots.

i notice i can get different lengths pivot? is that possible or am i not seeing what happening correctly.

 

[Strong Badam]

yes, you can pivot at different times during your dash.

transcendent priority doesn't exist in melee. in fact, priority isn't hardcoded into very many moves at all. brawl handled priority a bit differently.

uair isn't always > utilt. utilt's good at having more horizontal range and coming out faster than sh uair. its's especially useful while cging spacies.

 

[KAOSTAR]

you can have different length pivots. marth has a big dash so there are more places to pivot.

imo up tilt is still a better choice for fox laying on the platform above.

also-ninja **** on the pivot. strongbeezy,

 

[Smash G 0 D]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qna80MbcAAc#t=3m13s

 

[Vanitas]

How do you do the edge hop Shield breaker and then catch the ledge afterwards? I always seem to miss the edge and up B back

 

[mers]

How do you do the edge hop Shield breaker and then catch the ledge afterwards? I always seem to miss the edge and up B back

This is discussed in that thread about technical things in the Marth boards.

 

[Dart!]

you just have to do it faster, you see whats happening but you aren't doing it fast enough. it takes practice if you have slow reaction/finger movement

 

[Bob Money]

Yep, Earla's post about how to do it worked out perfectly for me.(Thanks Broski)
I can do it 90 percent of the time.

I practiced the movement on stage over and over again so I wouldn't have to worry about up Bing to break the muscle muscle memory.

1/2 speed Melee helps to see where you mess up

I like to look at marths hips, if his hips are going up above the ledge when you start your shield breaker you should grab the ledge.

Took me about a week of solid play to get it down.

 

[painlord k11]

ya i gotta work on pivoting another thing is like i almost feel regular grab is better to chain grab with cause it has longer range for a noobier easy way to chain grab cause when i JC the shorter grab misses the chain when they coming down but i gues JC works when pivoting and obviously use JC grab all the time on the ground due to lag reduction I'm just wondering for chain grabs?

 

[_Rocky_]

Falcon is a harder match up than Sheik for marth

discuss

 

[_wzrd]

mm, I think sheik is harder.

I think marth/falcon is relatively even in my experience.
but
marth/sheik has got to be 40/60 at BEST.

I think falcon is easier to deal with cause you can swat his aerial approaches away/and you have a superior grab game.

marth can tech chase falcon pretty easily at lower percents, than juggle very easy afterwards.
edge guarding falcon is pretty simple due to his bad recovery. with a good read you can tech chase a tipper and proceed to edgeguard very efficiently.

falcon does have speed that can penetrate marths range fairly well though, but I think it is easier to keep falcon out, than it is to keep poking through marths sword wall. when falcon gets a grab, it can easily be a stock, BUT marth does have a nice fair to interrupt combos, and if you mix up your di/teching patterns you can usually get away. mm I think falcon can edgeguard marth pretty well, but he is not the best at it.

sheik just ***** marth, her grab is like falcons where you can just die from it, BUT I think it is much easier to get to the end of the stock with sheik.
she can **** marth in the air, and makes him approach most of the time with her needles.
she ***** marths recovery with needles/great aerials.
she has easy grab->kill at the right percents with UAIR or fair/bair-> edgeguard.

marth has to rely on low percent gimps/edgeguards to kill sheik. Once sheik is like 85+ percent it is a lot harder to kill her loool. it is pretty difficult to push her of the edge without a combo.

I dunno sorry for the kinda wacky post, but thats the stuff I have noticed from the matchups

 

[_wzrd]

I wont lie though...I do enjoy fighting sheiks around my skill level. It is difficult but very fun. If the sheik is too much better than me it becomes a really bad time, and I destroy most sheiks below my skill level.

 

[stelzig]

Rocky is PAL though so the grab --> kill with Uair og Fair/Bair isn't as true for him
I don't really mind playing against either character.

 

[ChaosNoobSlayer]

What do I need to do against peach? I swear she seems like she is broken. Her moves are soooo gay helP!!!

I keep getting ***** by Dash Attack, CC downsmash, and that spinny aerial(nair?)

 

[Alukard]

Cactuar

lets play sumtime ... i actually have time to get better now ... since u said i dont need training ... how about just friendlies next time we see each other while u give me them tips u promised ^_^ <3

 

[Dart!]

alukard you play samus, leave jk, hyped for RoM3?

 

[I.B]

Alu Alu Alu

 

[Phoenix~Lament]

What do I need to do against peach? I swear she seems like she is broken. Her moves are soooo gay helP!!!

I keep getting ***** by Dash Attack, CC downsmash, and that spinny aerial(nair?)

Full hop fairs to avoid cc downsmash, or just space better. Alternatively you can always do a tomahawk and grab the cc. Dash attack can be annoying since it pops you up above her (really bad place to be) but just stay out of its range or bait it, it has a decent amount of ending lag. Just try to avoid it and outspace it.

If you're getting ***** by her nair you're definitely not spacing well enough.. marth's sword can more than beat her nair. Just don't get trapped above her and space well.

 

[Jun.]

What do I need to do against peach? I swear she seems like she is broken. Her moves are soooo gay helP!!!

I keep getting ***** by Dash Attack, CC downsmash, and that spinny aerial(nair?)

our nair goes through turnips so keep that in mind when she has a turnip

my experience is that shff'ed fairs are the best things to space out peach. If you are too close to the peach and it feels like she might dash attack in then throw out a jab or a dtilt to stop her approach.

If she's in the air try your best to keep her in front of you and watch the lag time of your fair as peach can come in and punish your lagtime pretty hard.

capitalize off every grab you get. Mix up fthrows and dthrows into straight fsmashes or chase into dash attack if she's in range.

watch the m2k vs armada marth matches.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Cactuar and Armada probably played 1000 Marth/Peach friendlies before APEX.

And none of them are on youtube.

fuuuuuuuuuu

 

[Cactuar]

He ***** my Marth in all of them. He's really effing good at that MU.

 

[Jun.]

hey cactuar!

you say you're a fox/marth main using mostly fox but marth for certain matchups right? What are the MU's that you are more comfortable with marth and why?

I ask this because I'm almost exactly in the same scenario when it comes to maining a character and would like a similar player's opinion.

For me it seems to be Peach, Falcon (ish), Ganon, and Samus that I'm more comfortable using Marth instead of fox. I think it stems from Marth's ability to edgeguard these characters much more easily while not having a hard time with them on the stage.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

He ***** my Marth in all of them. He's really effing good at that MU.

Yeah, I heard you say at APEX that its his best matchup.

I still would love vids of that good ol' green Marth though; new vids of it haven't come out in a long, long time.

 

[Vincent46]

hey cactuar!

you say you're a fox/marth main using mostly fox but marth for certain matchups right? What are the MU's that you are more comfortable with marth and why?

I ask this because I'm almost exactly in the same scenario when it comes to maining a character and would like a similar player's opinion.

For me it seems to be Peach, Falcon (ish), Ganon, and Samus that I'm more comfortable using Marth instead of fox. I think it stems from Marth's ability to edgeguard these characters much more easily while not having a hard time with them on the stage.

Fox is probably better against every one of the characters you listed though, except Samus. I can see Marth having an easier time against, maybe, Falcos, other Foxes. If i were in you I would stick to a single character so that you could learn the matchups you're having problems with... not that Fox needs a secondary anyway. But that's up to you.