Matt07
Smash Master
Problem is, fsmash is one of our best K.O moves, and most of us will want to keep that move fresh, so we can K.O you earlier.
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okay exaggeration.Not really....
I'm good with both of those.63:35 mario it is, if you wish to dispute, comment here quick.
fox is 6:4 i think we already decided, right?
im convinced you can beat a falcon doing nothing but cape a fludd.I honestly didn't know the match-up was that bad, poor Falcon .
I'm okay with that. But Fox wasn't very well discussed, so if anyone has anything to add, do so.63:35 mario it is, if you wish to dispute, comment here quick.
fox is 6:4 i think we already decided, right?
Hazard discussed with some fox mains and i trust his judgementI'm okay with that. But Fox wasn't very well discussed, so if anyone has anything to add, do so.
I mean it wasn't very well discussed here. If we wanna trust the previous judgement, fine. I just wanna make sure everything that people want to say has been said.Hazard discussed with some fox mains and i trust his judgement
Just to get this straight (not only directed at wogrim), fox is even with samus? (both 40-60)Mario isn't THAT hard....
His FSmash and cape are good, but his fireballs are not (although better than Luigi's, they're still slow and are easily outprioritized). Everything else has really poor range. He can gimp us pretty hard, but his recovery is really poor.
40-60, maybe 45-55
For Fox, I'm fine with 40-60 and don't want to type out a big post explaining why. His shine can gimp almost as well as cape so I don't see how you could consider Mario to be more difficult.
No, Fox is harder. I never claimed 40-60 Samus.Just to get this straight (not only directed at wogrim), fox is even with samus? (both 40-60)
Are you guys sure that is right?
If you think Mario's recovery is bad, you haven't played a good Mario.His FSmash and cape are good, but his fireballs are not (although better than Luigi's, they're still slow and are easily outprioritized). Everything else has really poor range. He can gimp us pretty hard, but his recovery is really poor.
This is just theory that I haven't gotten to test, but why can't Falcon do something like drop off UAir or reverse Falcon Dive when Mario tries to use his cape to stall and outlast invincibility frames from edgehogging? People always assume we're just going to sit still while you stall, but do we have to?If you think Mario's recovery is bad, you haven't played a good Mario.
His recovery is gimpable if he does it wrong and always DIs badly, but he has a lot of options offstage and if he picks correctly, you're not gimping him anytime soon. His midair jump is very good. Much better than Falcon's by far, and when combined with smart use of the broken air dodge system, he can be very difficult to keep offstage. He can Cape stall not just to gain distance, but to wait out edgeguard attempts. He can control space offstage with fireball spam as he recovers, and he has a number of useful aerials that can be annoying to work around as he's recovering. He also ledgestalls very well, so once he makes it to the ledge, you're not punishing him at all, and Mario's options for actually getting back on the stage from the ledge are also good.
His recovery is no worse than someone like Marth's persay. They are punishable and gimpable if they do it wrong, but a smart player who knows their options should almost always make it back and only occasionally get punished on the way back.
Like, the only thing Falcon will be able to easily land on Mario's recovery is a sourspot F-air due to the lingering hitbox. Which only will gimp Mario either at really really really high percents, or if you somehow managed to get him out of the beginning of his midair jump.
Falcon on the other hand does not have many good options offstage. Due to his high fall speed, he has much more commitment to his recovery moves which can be easily punished by a good player, and he is absolutely terrible on the ledge. Sure, the distance on his recovery may look good, but he has by far much less safety on his recovery when compared to the vast majority of the cast.
That is why you don't DI badly like a nub, or Up-B to land on stage in case they hog the ledge. As long as you aren't stupid with your midair jump you should make it back like 99% of the time, and only actually get gimped by something really ridiculous like G&W's D-smash, which not many people can survive anyway.Ehh, mario's recovery is pretty crappy though. I mean, its fast and has a hellza lots of priority, but whenever I play him or play against people who use mario, if they get knocked away too far, they can't recover if ya hog em.
That isn't the only thing Mario can do on the ledge. Mario's Up-B and fireballs are also good when edgestalling. Mario can do ledgedrop Cape -> B-air to get back on stage.This is just theory that I haven't gotten to test, but why can't Falcon do something like drop off UAir or reverse Falcon Dive when Mario tries to use his cape to stall and outlast invincibility frames from edgehogging? People always assume we're just going to sit still while you stall, but do we have to?
Practically everything... what?Hi guys, just my 2 cents. I always thought the Mario vs. Falcon matchup was laughable at best. Practically everything Mario has can destroy Falcon. However, I lost to Ally's Falcon in a friendly, so I guess it's possible, but you really have to outplay Mario here.
No I wasn't talking about after Mario already gets to the stage, I was talking about when you try to edgehog Mario's up-B and he uses his cape to stall through the invincibility frames.That is why you don't DI badly like a nub, or Up-B to land on stage in case they hog the ledge. As long as you aren't stupid with your midair jump you should make it back like 99% of the time, and only actually get gimped by something really ridiculous like G&W's D-smash, which not many people can survive anyway.
That isn't the only thing Mario can do on the ledge. Mario's Up-B and fireballs are also good when edgestalling. Mario can do ledgedrop Cape -> B-air to get back on stage.
I've ledgeteched reverse Falcon Dive pretty consistently (well, a long time ago, so I might need practice as of now). Ledgetech jump = free N-air, U-air, or maybe F-air edgeguard on Falcon. U-air or B-air is a better option against edgestallers, but usually by the time you approach the ledge, most Mario mains should be smart enough to choose to just get back on stage instead.
Mario beats Falcon in the air only at close range. With decent spacing he can't '****' Falcon with anything except cape gimps.Just some pros and cons to throw out there.
Pros:
+CF is faster in terms of mobility
Cons:
-Mario has more priority
-Mario can more reliably gimp CF than vice-versa
I'd say this match-up is 60:40/65:35 in Mario's favor; Mario ***** CF in the air and off-stage, but CF's mobility helps him keep up with Mario and CF does decent against Mario on the ground.
Mario's Bair has ≥ reach than any of CF's aerials and Mario's hitboxes expand during his atks.Mario beats Falcon in the air only at close range. With decent spacing he can't '****' Falcon with anything except cape gimps.
falcon's bair still has insane priority at the sweetspot on the tip. Seriously. I almost outprioritized GaW's dsmash with it, I heard the *clink* sound effect, but i still got smacked :'(Mario's Bair has ≥ reach than any of CF's aerials and Mario's hitboxes expand during his atks.
mario, mario, mario and marioyou guys know that Mario who made "the Mario Combo video"? yeah well I played him and beat in the past. Since then i'v become way better and would like to say that the match-up isn't as hard as some make it out to be, his fireballs and cape and the only problem.
stop talking about spacing people! the argument that character A has more range than character B is not that important especially somebody like Mario who pretty much has the same range as C. Falcon. What you should be talking about is who has the batter approach options, recovery options, baiting options, comboability, etc.
mario, mario, mario and mario
I'm pretty sure Mario can B-air or U-air before you are allowed to leave the edge in that scenario. Then he still has midair jump and Up-B to make it back from there. Just sayin'.No I wasn't talking about after Mario already gets to the stage, I was talking about when you try to edgehog Mario's up-B and he uses his cape to stall through the invincibility frames.
there are alot of mario combo videos, specify a bit more pls?you guys know that Mario who made "the Mario Combo video"? yeah well I played him and beat in the past. Since then i'v become way better and would like to say that the match-up isn't as hard as some make it out to be, his fireballs and cape and the only problem.
I'm pretty sure that doesn't matter. Falcon's attacks and lag make it very difficult for him to get a good timing assault on Mario, not to mention his priority is utter trash. Using Fsmash with Mario is a silly idea. Mario dominates this fight with Fireballs, Utilts, and Bairs.Practically everything... what?
You DO realize falcon has longer range, RIGHT?
RIGHT?
Gawd, your fsmash is the only move the outranges falcon in this fight, otherwise falcon has the greater range. Lerntounderstimatelesskthnx
Cape.better recovery
This would be true if his kill moves weren't so slow and preditable.more power
Alright.more mobility speed
Mario and MK are the only characters with something that even resembles a 'broad' range of combos in Brawl.a broader range of combo's (i'll explain later)
You don't have to explain. This is true.range (i'll explain later again)