Can anyone tell me why Falcon is considered the worst?

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Maybe in a year or two, somebody will find a combo for falcon that leads into the knee, for ez KOs. Then falcon might hop up a tier. But until then, I'll play him to have fun and FALCON PAUNCH!

 

[KeyKid19]

But there's no point having a good recovery when you can't do anything else effectively, is there?

At least a very defensive Ganondorf can tank it to some extent, and actually has viable KO options for the most part.

And Ganon's recovery is not nearly as bad as Olimar's.

See but Ganondorf can't do anything AND he can't recover.

Defensive Falcon can tank almost as well as defensive Ganondorf. The range difference is minimal at best and the weight difference is also minimal at best. The difference is that Falcon can run away from people and also recover (both of which Ganondorf can't do).

Honestly I find Olimar harder to gimp in the low percents than Ganondorf but that's just me I guess. Higher percents of course Olimar can get gimped but so can Ganondorf just because his second jump and UpB are so ****ty.

 

[KeyKid19]

LOL Ivysaur. Also Olimar.

Then there was Melee Falco lol.

Anyhow if anyone is forced to approach Ganon, he can SHD-air people to death, while Falcon can't because his D-air doesn't own.

BTW, Ganondorf outranges a ton of characters with Jabs and F-tilts. Neither character is good at approaching, so who does better when they are approached? Ganondorf, because he can do damage and push people away much better. Ganondorf anyhow approaches better, and chances are both will be forced to approach considering how many projectile spammers are getting up on the tiers.

Falcon doesn't recover much better than Ganondorf... He'll get gimped nearly as often as Ganondorf.

Ganondorf can jump. WTF are you getting at? As I told you, he can SHD-air people to death. Falcon can't. And both characters do it laglessly in case you forgot. Also Ganondorf has a U-air, equally good as if not better than Falcon's (better because it kills at lower percents and comes out just as fast)

Anyhow, Ganondorf actually has combos, priority, and kill strength. PLUS, he has grab range with his Forward B. The Jab KILLS (abeit at like 150%, but that is REALLY good for a Jab, and if it gets someone off the stage, then Spike them with your D-air). I'm also pretty sure you can D-tilt people after a Forward B, and that too can kill, and vertically.


LOL, to make matters worse for Falcon, he can't counterpick because he doesn't have any good stage advantages. However Ganondorf can counterpick Brinstar because his Forward B is hax there. That alone should place him higher on the tiers.

As I said in the post I just made I find Ivysaur and Olimar harder to gimp at low percents than Ganondorf. At high percents all three are easy to gimp. Falcon is not by any means. YOU are the delusional one if you think Falcon's recovery has problems. I eat recovering Ganondorfs for breakfast, and when I'm Falcon I don't get gimped so you are clearly wrong on the recovery comparison.

Yeah, because spamming SH-Dair isn't easy to punish or anything...

Ganondorf's Uair is just as good as Falcon's BUT HE CAN'T JUMP to air chase after anyone so it doesn't matter! Ganondorf can't edgeguard for **** because he kills himself by going out of his recovery range half the time!

Correction: Ganondorf has combo. And it sucks. The Dtilt one does not work by the way because people try to do it on me and I roll away before they get it off. Also you're asking to be edgehogged if you try to edgeguard with Ganondorf's Dair. It's just as hard to land as Falcon's and both kill as edgeguards when they hit. Falcon also won't kill himself by mistake so his is better since that makes it more useful. Also Falcon may not have one pointless combo but he can at least chase people for christ's sake!

Counterpicking Brinstar = Ganondorf > Falcon is the worst argument I've seen on these boards. So what, you have a good chance of winning one match out of three with that. Whoop de doo. Forward B is just as predictable as Falcon's anyways so spamming it won't work as a strategy. If you do so I guarantee any real player will 3-stock you. Ganondorf may actually not be the worst character in the game on that stage but he is the worst character in the game on EVERY OTHER STAGE (except Bridge of Eldin maybe because you don't have to worry about getting recovery gimped most of the time).

There's a reason everyone except for you and a select few others put Ganondorf as worst in the game. It's because he IS the worst in the game.

 

[IcantWin]

If you time it right, which will take time getting used to, you can pull the knee off fairly easy, as long as they're in the higher percents. Yes, Falcon is a whole new character, and he must be "relarned" to some sort. But like KevKid19 mentioned earlier, pro players who can utilize their character to the fullest will have a huge edge on you, even if you've gone pro w. Falcon. At X.ESTICLE, I was eliminated first round due to the fact that I was against a very solid Olimar Player, and well, Olimar just eats falcon, and his pikmin go in to ravage the corpse.

Further into the losers bracket I ended up winning five matches with Falcon, so until then, I still have hope for him.

PS: With the dieing return of Captain Falcon, it's now something like: "SHOW ME YA... well... ugh.. yea.. just take it off"

 

[KeyKid19]

Dude.

Ganon's jab, F-tilt and D-tilt jave range that rival Marth's.

His U-smash and d-tilt have IASA frames so it's easy to build a wall with them and attack quickly. His U-smash ahs deceptive range since the hitbox is disjointed and extends a bit beyond what it looks like. Also his F-tilt and d-tilt hitboxes extenda bit beyond his foot.

Gerudo Dragon (side b) is awesomesauce and there is no need to go into any further. Also Ganon's Nair > CF's Nair. For real.

Ganon is way better then CF. Ganon actually has good priority too and attacks pretty fast on his good moves.

Too bad he can't do anything to follow up after those moves.

Usmash is too slow and too laggy. Worse than Falcon's because he can at least slide into it thanks to his ability to actually RUN.

If Side B was so good that you didn't need to go on, then why did you? Oh that's right because it's not THAT great. It's very good but surrounded by all of Ganondorf's other problems it goes to waste. Nair for both characters isn't very good but I'll give you that Ganondorf's is better.

No. His good moves are not fast. I feel like I'm watching my grandma cross the street when I watch him move and attack. He is ungodly slow in everything he does (except jab and other moves that really don't matter in the big scheme of things). He does have priority but his moves are so slow and predictable that you can shield/spotdodge/roll/run away/jump/taunt before they hit you.

 

[KeyKid19]

If you time it right, which will take time getting used to, you can pull the knee off fairly easy, as long as they're in the higher percents. Yes, Falcon is a whole new character, and he must be "relarned" to some sort. But like KevKid19 mentioned earlier, pro players who can utilize their character to the fullest will have a huge edge on you, even if you've gone pro w. Falcon. At X.ESTICLE, I was eliminated first round due to the fact that I was against a very solid Olimar Player, and well, Olimar just eats falcon, and his pikmin go in to ravage the corpse.

Further into the losers bracket I ended up winning five matches with Falcon, so until then, I still have hope for him.

PS: With the dieing return of Captain Falcon, it's now something like: "SHOW ME YA... well... ugh.. yea.. just take it off"

Except Ganondorf and DK and a couple other characters who Falcon is better than. But by and large most pro whoevers will beat pro Falcons.

 

[IcantWin]

1. Captain Falcon is scrap.
2. Just because he is on the character select does not mean he is a viable option to be used in combat.
3. The ability to pick Captain Falcon to PLAY the game is an illusion. He is available so that your 7 year old sister will have a chance beating you when she picks Zelda.
4. He is not playable. He was meant to be a funny image on the select screen, so that when you look at him you laugh. The joke gets even funnier when you actually see him in a match and he is getting ***** sideways by an Italian dwarf, a man with a tiara, and woodland animals.
5. You think you're ready to engage in competitive play? He is the bully taking all your quarters after your mommy dropped you off at the arcade.
6. You think he is fun? When I play Captain Falcon I feel like I am doing my highschool math homework all over again.
7. Falcon kick is a safer option to deal damage than most of his attacks on average. YAY!
8. When a character's JUMP feels like it lags, you don't need to talk about the other issues.
9. Captain Falcon is available on the select screen to weed out people who already don't know what they're doing, PICKING CAPTAIN FALCON.
10. He plays like an old man in a really fast wheelchair.

There is no single other character in the game who could possibly be worse side from Ganon.

As much as I disagree with most of this, it made me laugh my friggin *** off, wheelchair... golden.

 

[IcantWin]

Except Ganondorf and DK and a couple other characters who Falcon is better than. But by and large most pro whoevers will beat pro Falcons.

/agreed

It's the sad truth, but I plan on keeping him as my main until the day I realize that my snake is x3000 better than him.

 

[KeyKid19]

/agreed

It's the sad truth, but I plan on keeping him as my main until the day I realize that my snake is x3000 better than him.

Oh yeah my Ike is better than my Falcon but Falcon is more fun to play as. Also Ike's recovery makes me cry and wish I had Falcon's. lol

 

[Tenki]

Ganondorf's Uair is just as good as Falcon's BUT HE CAN'T JUMP to air chase after anyone so it doesn't matter! Ganondorf can't edgeguard for **** because he kills himself by going out of his recovery range half the time!

Correction: Ganondorf has combo. And it sucks. The Dtilt one does not work by the way because people try to do it on me and I roll away before they get it off. Also you're asking to be edgehogged if you try to edgeguard with Ganondorf's Dair. It's just as hard to land as Falcon's and both kill as edgeguards when they hit. Falcon also won't kill himself by mistake so his is better since that makes it more useful. Also Falcon may not have one pointless combo but he can at least chase people for christ's sake!

Counterpicking Brinstar = Ganondorf > Falcon is the worst argument I've seen on these boards.

-Different people edgeguard in different ways ._.; I normally don't chase people off the level ,but if you see a Ganondorf doing that, I agree, to an extent. That player "can't edgeguard for **** because he kills himself by going out of his recovery range"

Heck, even some Sonic players go outta their recovery range trying to do F-air combos to juggle people off stage.

A funny and somewhat related sidenote, I shoryuken'd a recovering Pit (he was near the top of the level, Pirate Ship) to an over-stage death using the uppercut at the end of Ganondorf's Up-B and the guy shouted "WTF I JUST GOT EDGEGUARDED BY A GANONDORF. A GANONDORF!?"

-@Flame Choke combo, it has to be a standing D-tilt. If you tilt the control stick only slightly down, you can skip the frames going into the crouch animation to go straight into the kick, and it hits while they're bouncing. They were probably doing full-tilts on their control stick and that's why you could escape.

It might be because I'm used to playing THE slowest characters in Brawl, but I actually find Falcon's D-air to be harder to land than Ganondorf's. At least, getting it to meteor instead of knocking someone sideways ._.;

Ganon can tech-chase. Sure, he can't run after people he knocks away, but tech-chasing is his game. People-chasing might be Falcon's game, but I'll have to actually take some time myself and play Falcon before I can seriously comment on his strengths/weaknesses.

._.; If anything, I think you've been playing against people who were either trying to play Brawl Ganon like Melee Ganon or trying to play Ganondorf like Captain Falcon, and in both cases, trying to play one character like another one = fail. Or... maybe the person using Ganon just sucked lol.

 

[KeyKid19]

-Different people edgeguard in different ways ._.; I normally don't chase people off the level ,but if you see a Ganondorf doing that, I agree, to an extent. That player "can't edgeguard for **** because he kills himself by going out of his recovery range"

Heck, even some Sonic players go outta their recovery range trying to do F-air combos to juggle people off stage.

A funny and somewhat related sidenote, I shoryuken'd a recovering Pit (he was near the top of the level, Pirate Ship) to an over-stage death using the uppercut at the end of Ganondorf's Up-B and the guy shouted "WTF I JUST GOT EDGEGUARDED BY A GANONDORF. A GANONDORF!?"

-@Flame Choke combo, it has to be a standing D-tilt. If you tilt the control stick only slightly down, you can skip the frames going into the crouch animation to go straight into the kick, and it hits while they're bouncing. They were probably doing full-tilts on their control stick and that's why you could escape.

It might be because I'm used to playing THE slowest characters in Brawl, but I actually find Falcon's D-air to be harder to land than Ganondorf's. At least, getting it to meteor instead of knocking someone sideways ._.;

Ganon can tech-chase. Sure, he can't run after people he knocks away, but tech-chasing is his game. People-chasing might be Falcon's game, but I'll have to actually take some time myself and play Falcon before I can seriously comment on his strengths/weaknesses.

._.; If anything, I think you've been playing against people who were either trying to play Brawl Ganon like Melee Ganon or trying to play Ganondorf like Captain Falcon, and in both cases, trying to play one character like another one = fail. Or... maybe the person using Ganon just sucked lol.

See if Ganondorf could jump you'd be able to jump off the stage and edgeguard people that way like every other character does. Whatever way you do it, you still can't do it like the rest of the roster can due to your lack of jump. Sure other characters have little problems with it like Sonic as you pointed out but I think it's quite realistic to say that Sonic is a much better choice over Ganondorf if you want to chase people off the stage.

That Pirate Ship thing is pretty cool, but realistically if the guy wasn't totally not expecting it he could've air dodged and then ***** you on your way down. At least you have had some use for the punch though I guess.

I guess that's true about the Dtilt then. I've never seen someone skip the crouch though so obviously a lot of Ganondorf players don't know about that.

Meteor, sideways, what does it matter? Chances are they're going to die anyways if you hit with it off the edge. They are both too hard to hit with though.

The problem with Ganondorf is that even his jab knocks people out of his quick chase range at medium percents. Falcon on the other hand is able to chase people at all times and keep the pressure on.

Well I don't know about that. I'm just saying what I've seen from Ganondorf in the times I've played as him as well as when I play other people who use him. My main beef with him is that he can't jump, and no matter how you play him you're going to end up doing that at some point. He also is laggy and has an enormous frame that doesn't weigh much more than the sleeker and speedier Falcon.

 

[Ayato]

I'm better with Ganon than I am with C.Falc. I personally think he's better. He's just a very careful, defensive character.

Falcon's a contradiction to general rules of thumb for character playstyles. His style matches Ganondorf's in that it should be defensive (with some situational aggressive outlets), but his speed gives you the impression that he can play a full-on aggressive style. He's like a misleadingly fast version of Ganondorf. The play style isn't as natural for Falcon's stat layout.

Also, DK generally fairs better in random matchups than Falcon, at least as far as I've found. He's shooting straight for the mid-ground on our future tier list, while Falcon is shaping up for the lower end. I still haven't decided a main (I generally choose Random when I play), but I find that I consistently perform better with DK and Ganon. Yoshi is a different story, but he's going to end up as a specialty character what with his jump and shield properties, so my judgment on him sucks because I'm terrible with him. I personally find him worse than Falcon though.

I forgot my point. I digressed a lot in the middle of that paragraph. I think what I was trying to say is that Falcon isn't so hot, Ganon plays like him but in a more natural way because of the stat dispositions (both are defensive, but one is slow and seems naturally defensive), and DK plays better than Falcon overall (though Falcon himself does very well against a DK that isn't careful).

When I think about it though, Falcon is definitely up there as far as candidacy for one the characters whose setbacks are most difficult to overcome. He's in good company though.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Too bad he can't do anything to follow up after those moves.

Usmash is too slow and too laggy. Worse than Falcon's because he can at least slide into it thanks to his ability to actually RUN.

If Side B was so good that you didn't need to go on, then why did you? Oh that's right because it's not THAT great. It's very good but surrounded by all of Ganondorf's other problems it goes to waste. Nair for both characters isn't very good but I'll give you that Ganondorf's is better.

No. His good moves are not fast. I feel like I'm watching my grandma cross the street when I watch him move and attack. He is ungodly slow in everything he does (except jab and other moves that really don't matter in the big scheme of things). He does have priority but his moves are so slow and predictable that you can shield/spotdodge/roll/run away/jump/taunt before they hit you.

But Ganon doesn't need to follow up his moves...his Dair alone does more damage than both hits of Captain Falcon's up smash. :/ And every one of his attacks KOes sooner.

Really, follow-ups aren't all that important in Brawl because of air dodging. I even stopped trying to do aerial juggles as Ness beyond the simple attack strings because it was a futile effort against other human players. Now I just throw out PK thunder/Flash after an aerial hit and hope they feel like dodging it so I can chase them as they come down.

Falcon can hit the opponent up with an unimpressive attack, and then lead into...aerials which are easy to dodge?

Ganon can hit the opponent up with a significantly powerful attack that all in all would do more damage than a follow up in the first place.

I play as both Falcon and Ganon occasionally and Ganon is clearly superior. He just feels like he pays off when he hits. Falcon has me running around and trying to land a sliding up smash, just to have the opponent interrupt it with a jab or something.

his playing style also baits me into wanting to attempt his more desperate moves like Falcon Punch or down smash because he has trouble KOing otherwise, and frustration sets in.

I don't have this problem with Lucario, because he is one of the few characters who actually has real combos, safe follow ups and amazing hitboxes. So it's alright if he has trouble KOing early, since it's not hard to keep safe and hit the opponent. With Falcon, it's hard to keep safe, and it's hard to hit the opponent, so it has me scraping the bottom of the bucket for options, which lead to me doing silly things like jumping past an opponent and doing a reverse falcon punch in the air, hoping it'll hit on the way down. :/ That usually doesn't end nicely.

I call it the "Lucas reflex". Where you instinctively hit up smash a lot to try and compensate for a bad moment, often with bad results on your part.

 

[A2ZOMG]

DK is massively underrated. He just won a 60 man tourney.

And DK unlike Falcon has GOOD kill options (try the U-air, not to mention his insanely strong Smashes and even the Giant Punch) and great priority on attacks. His meteor smash options are actually among the best in the game too. DK also can shieldgrab, something Falcon and Ganondorf can't do.

Falcon putting pressure on opponents is complete BS when he gets outprioritized easily by people spamming N-airs.

Ganon's Jab knocking people back really far is a GOOD thing. This means people will be put off the stage more often, meaning he will have more times to ledgeguard. And it is MUCH easier to hit with Ganon's D-air than it is to hit with Falcon's. The hitbox is significantly bigger, and it spikes more reliably. You don't know how many times I've seen my opponent survive just because the D-air is a stupid spike. Even though everything is a spike in Brawl, Falcon's is significantly easier to survive even IF you spike because it has MUCH less knockback than Ganondorf's. This basically means you can essentially meteor cancel Falcon's to an extent. However you essentially can't meteor cancel Ganondorf's because it has too much knockback.

And pshaw, the difference in distance Ganon can ledgeguard at as opposed to other characters isn't that significant. Unless the character is someone like G&W or Jigglypuff.

Your whole point on Falcon being able to chase people is BS when he's one of the worst approachers in the entire game. Ganondorf approaches like way better than Falcon. And you underestimate his fast moves like the Dash attack, and his Down-B. These give him really good speed, distance, and if you connect, which can happen since they activate SUPER fast, you'll send your opponent flying. Hell, the Dash attack actually can set up combos if you hit with the very end of it. That can chain into a U-smash at low percents. Falcon CAN'T chain into a U-smash with his Dash attack btw.

 

[manhunter098]

The knee now sucks and for the most part his side smash is the only other worthy KO move he has. Otherwise his damage is decent. Basically Falcon's aerial game now sucks his recovery is pretty bad by comparison to many other characters and he really doesnt have anything to make up for his flaws. Hes really nothing without his knee and while he could follow up well in Melee due to his speed, that really doesnt seem to help as much as it did in Brawl.

Also his throwing game sucks. Hard. You cant use it to lead into anything decent anymore, before a grab could turn into 20+ damage, he doesnt have anything close to that option anymore.

In a nutshell Captain Falcon was only as good as his knee and now his knee sucks. Simple logic.

 

[Tenki]

Different is different.

See if Ganondorf could jump you'd be able to jump off the stage and edgeguard people that way like every other character does. Whatever way you do it, you still can't do it like the rest of the roster can due to your lack of jump. Sure other characters have little problems with it like Sonic as you pointed out but I think it's quite realistic to say that Sonic is a much better choice over Ganondorf if you want to chase people off the stage.

That Pirate Ship thing is pretty cool, but realistically if the guy wasn't totally not expecting it he could've air dodged and then ***** you on your way down. At least you have had some use for the punch though I guess.

I guess that's true about the Dtilt then. I've never seen someone skip the crouch though so obviously a lot of Ganondorf players don't know about that.

Meteor, sideways, what does it matter? Chances are they're going to die anyways if you hit with it off the edge. They are both too hard to hit with though.

The problem with Ganondorf is that even his jab knocks people out of his quick chase range at medium percents. Falcon on the other hand is able to chase people at all times and keep the pressure on.

Well I don't know about that. I'm just saying what I've seen from Ganondorf in the times I've played as him as well as when I play other people who use him. My main beef with him is that he can't jump, and no matter how you play him you're going to end up doing that at some point. He also is laggy and has an enormous frame that doesn't weigh much more than the sleeker and speedier Falcon.

This should be the last time I mention Ganondorf without having played Falcon to a comfortable point, but I wanna just set some things straight xD

Well, considering he doesn't move horizontally too well, using double jumps shouldn't be a problem for height, at least, on-stage.

The reason that I was able to hit the Pit was because he was gliding (near the top of the screen, where he thought he was safe); he wasn't expecting a Ganondorf to reach him coming from the bow of the ship (left edge) to the top of the level. Realistically, most people don't expect Ganon to cover that much vertical distance, so it was an effective surprise. His normal jumps are pretty low, but his up-B is vertically monstrous, so, in the case that he get knocked off-stage, I'll stick with the argument that his recovery is decent, assuming that he DI's toward the stage and falls considerably lower before trying double-jump or up-B. I won't mention his recovery anymore, as this is a Falcon thread, not Ganon ;p

Taking the meteor smash comment into this, I play(ed..?) Ike, and I use his meteor d-air off-level often. Think of the kind of positioning you'd need for that kind of finisher hit - it definitely isn't far off stage. But what does it matter if you're near the edge or far away if you're knocking them too low to recover, if not dead, at a low %? If you extend that kind of movement/mindset to something slightly faster, like Ganondorf's d-air, then timing it to hit the person (or at least, where the person is, assuming that they can air-dodge) is no problem. Hitting Falcon's d-air is considerably harder for me atm because I'm used to initiating my attacks earlier (and for Ike/Ganondorf, their slow moves have really large hitboxes) so that kind of preciseness in speed isn't my forte... as a player. Kinda like learning an FPS online, always leadshooting, then being thrown in a LAN setting where you don't have to leadshoot at all. Different timing ._.; (and yeah, I've been in that situation- i.. like lag?)


pop quiz!

You want to quickly damage a person from 80% to 90% in close range and set them up for an aerial combo, what's your move? If you said jab, you're correct!... for most characters. If you're a Ganondorf, it's Flame Choke. His jab is a knock-back move, and I've used it to gimp recoveries, push away potential combos, and .. KO. It's basically an example of what I mentioned with playing one character as though it were a totally different one. If Falcon's pressure game is chasing people and disturbing them, Ganondorf's pressure game is tech-reading and chain-choking/followups

That said, when I get a chance to play and get some time to practice with Falcon, I'm curious to see what kind of playstyle really suits him. It took me a while before I realized how much of a sumo wrestler Ganon was (grabs and [sparta] kicks ftw lol). Heck, with most characters, you'd use tilts for damage and smashes to kill, while, with Ganondorf, I use smashes for damage (usually out of a flame choke combo) and tilts (...sparta kick) to kill ._.;

I'm really hoping that Falcon being the 'worst' is just residue from people who try to play a Brawl character like they did in Melee. It sure turned off most Ganon players to the point that they changed mains and left him with a bad rep, when in reality, his whole playing style was just different from both other current characters and his past form.

 

[goodoldganon]

DK is massively underrated. He just won a 60 man tourney.

And DK unlike Falcon has GOOD kill options (try the U-air, not to mention his insanely strong Smashes and even the Giant Punch) and great priority on attacks. His meteor smash options are actually among the best in the game too. DK also can shieldgrab, something Falcon and Ganondorf can't do.

Falcon putting pressure on opponents is complete BS when he gets outprioritized easily by people spamming N-airs.

Ganon's Jab knocking people back really far is a GOOD thing. This means people will be put off the stage more often, meaning he will have more times to ledgeguard. And it is MUCH easier to hit with Ganon's D-air than it is to hit with Falcon's. The hitbox is significantly bigger, and it spikes more reliably. You don't know how many times I've seen my opponent survive just because the D-air is a stupid spike. Even though everything is a spike in Brawl, Falcon's is significantly easier to survive even IF you spike because it has MUCH less knockback than Ganondorf's. This basically means you can essentially meteor cancel Falcon's to an extent. However you essentially can't meteor cancel Ganondorf's because it has too much knockback.

And pshaw, the difference in distance Ganon can ledgeguard at as opposed to other characters isn't that significant. Unless the character is someone like G&W or Jigglypuff.

Your whole point on Falcon being able to chase people is BS when he's one of the worst approachers in the entire game. Ganondorf approaches like way better than Falcon. And you underestimate his fast moves like the Dash attack, and his Down-B. These give him really good speed, distance, and if you connect, which can happen since they activate SUPER fast, you'll send your opponent flying. Hell, the Dash attack actually can set up combos if you hit with the very end of it. That can chain into a U-smash at low percents. Falcon CAN'T chain into a U-smash with his Dash attack btw.

I agree with this post. DK is clear and definite middle tier. Last I heard, he making a bid at the Backroom's top of the mid tier.

Second, Ganondorf is better all around then Capt. Falcon, but neither are good by a long shot. Thanks to the nature of no combos in Brawl, Falcon can't thrive in this environment. He doesn't have any reliable move that does decent damage. Ganondorf has at least a few options to make an approach, and his Flame Choke can set things up nicely for him.

Falcon is fun to play, but he is definite bottom tier. I feel he is only better then Jigglypuff and maybe Yoshi. It's sad, but after playing extensively with a large portion of the cast, it is pretty increasingly apparent.

 

[PredictablyStubborn]

Just to throw it out there: I don't think Jigglypuff and Yoshi are bottom tier.

I'm maining Falcon right now, and I'm seriously trying to find some hidden potential in him. Dashing and shff-ing around, foot stool jump combos, I'm still looking for something that will really work for him.

Out of every character in this game, Falcon seems to have the least of things going for him. Even less than Sonic, who can do footstool combos easier than he does.

 

[rubiksfriend]

I think we all know what really happened: Captain Falcon was jettisoned into another dimension. The title of Captain Falcon was passed on to Rick Wheeler, and Rick never learned martial arts.

Seriously, he probably is the worst. Gdorf has power, but Captain doesn't have anything... except impotence. He can't knee, can't combo, can't land the first hit, etc. He just plain sucks. And it makes me very sad.

 

[EternalCrusade]

Things are different about Falcon in this game than the previous and it is taking awhile (longer than I expected) for people to adjust. Remember how everyone thought Ike was garbage tier initailly? Well now that many people are playing as him and learning his strategies, he is suddenly a good character. Nothing about Ike changed in that time, but people learned new things through testing and playing. And it only takes one great player to show everyone else how good a character can be.

 

[Micahc]

He can't combo into anything anymore, so thus, most people have to come to the conclusion that he sucks.

 

[Rebel581]

Things are different about Falcon in this game than the previous and it is taking awhile (longer than I expected) for people to adjust. Remember how everyone thought Ike was garbage tier initailly? Well now that many people are playing as him and learning his strategies, he is suddenly a good character. Nothing about Ike changed in that time, but people learned new things through testing and playing. And it only takes one great player to show everyone else how good a character can be.

What are you talking about? Ike was considered top tier when the game came out and is now considered trash when everyone figured out the airdodge button and started edgeguarding.

I don't know WHY they considered him top tier though. Just after playing him for a bit, it was obvious he wasn't that good.

Either way, on topic, Falcon's not bad. Samus is horrible. Falcon isn't the worst in the game as long as Samus exists. And Falcon can live a LONG time.

Also, don't go after the knee. Just bair and uair spam.

 

[goodoldganon]

What are you talking about? Ike was considered top tier when the game came out and is now considered trash when everyone figured out the airdodge button and started edgeguarding.

I don't know WHY they considered him top tier though. Just after playing him for a bit, it was obvious he wasn't that good.

Either way, on topic, Falcon's not bad. Samus is horrible. Falcon isn't the worst in the game as long as Samus exists. And Falcon can live a LONG time.

Also, don't go after the knee. Just bair and uair spam.

Meh, Samus can camp with the missiles and Z-Air spam. Since, as of right now, camping is such a powerful strategy I don't see her being worse then Falcon. But I guess we can agree that they both suck pretty bad, especially when you look back at Melee.

 

[KeyKid19]

I'm done arguing. All it's coming down to now is people giving different weights to different advantages and disadvantages between the characters.

All I know is I thank my stars when I am against a Ganondorf because I know it's a victory for me. The difference between the best character and the worst character in Brawl is so small compared to Melee anyways that it will come down the players much more often and technical bull**** won't mean a **** thing. Brawl is all about getting good with the character you use. Generally all character matchups are close enough that it comes down to who's the better player anyways.

That's how I see it and that's how I'm going to keep seeing it so don't even bother trying to argue if you disagree. I'll see you all around and if we ever come across in a match I'll have a blast playing as my Falcon against whoever you use, win or lose. But if I lose I'm not going to ***** about my character being lesser because I can always improve as a player.

 

[vills]

ok u wanna see how a real falcon player plays heres my friend code 4940-5740-1964
ill show u how a real falcon players like

 

[EternalCrusade]

What are you talking about? Ike was considered top tier when the game came out and is now considered trash when everyone figured out the airdodge button and started edgeguarding.

I don't know WHY they considered him top tier though. Just after playing him for a bit, it was obvious he wasn't that good.

Either way, on topic, Falcon's not bad. Samus is horrible. Falcon isn't the worst in the game as long as Samus exists. And Falcon can live a LONG time.

Also, don't go after the knee. Just bair and uair spam.

strange...I thought there was a period very early on even before that when people thought Ike was trash and way too slow

 

[Gill]

strange...I thought there was a period very early on even before that when people thought Ike was trash and way too slow

He WAS. He got changed before Brawl was released.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

Falcon isn't the worst.

Your just not godly/Falcon-y enough.

-Falcon Punch!!!

just use his bair now, his knee can't do much **** anymore

 

[IcantWin]

I think we all know what really happened: Captain Falcon was jettisoned into another dimension. The title of Captain Falcon was passed on to Rick Wheeler, and Rick never learned martial arts.

Seriously, he probably is the worst. Gdorf has power, but Captain doesn't have anything... except impotence. He can't knee, can't combo, can't land the first hit, etc. He just plain sucks. And it makes me very sad.

It's not that Falcon can't knee, i's the player behind him that can't do it. I have no problem pulling a knee off every so often, of course it's not spammable, but if you master it you have no problems using it, I don't at least.

 

[EternalCrusade]

He WAS. He got changed before Brawl was released.

Ah indeed, I must be thinking of way back from E for All, everyone thought he was garbage then

 

[AREL0E]

I dont agree he has a quick meteor smash. good nair and fair. not to mention his reflector getting kick out and brought back by some unknown force witch is awesome. But in all seriousness you have to be good at falco to know how great he is. I myself am only defending my freind who uses only falco and kicks my rump everytime we face.

Captain Falcon. Is the board you are on.

On topic, I am choosing to main him, I cant just leave him to be. Ive mained CF for close to 9 years. Yeah sure hes nerfed, there is a reason for secondaries.

 

[IcantWin]

Captain Falcon. Is the board you are on.

On topic, I am choosing to main him, I cant just leave him to be. Ive mained CF for close to 9 years. Yeah sure hes nerfed, there is a reason for secondaries.

ALLELUIA, I'm done here too, and my parting words are to all of you left on this never ending post:

I have mained Captain Falcon since I was eleven, that's seven years now, and I'm not leaving him behind because some minor setback includes his "only" move, the knee has been nerfed, and that priority makes him suck now.

But until my hands fall off or I die in an epic struggle with a pack of rabid Robots, I will main my Falcon, and clean those shiny nipples of his until they shine victory.

Good Game sir, Good Game.

 

[MiraiGen]

Ah indeed, I must be thinking of way back from E for All, everyone thought he was garbage then

Yeah, people came back from E for All and basically said, "Ike is ****. Characters need some kind of quick attack to be able to play effectively and he's just too **** slow to be usable."

I think they just increased his knockback so his attacks had more power to them, meaning that combos were just KO-striking someone over and over. I didn't go to E for All so I'm not sure.

 

[IcantWin]

Yeah, people came back from E for All and basically said, "Ike is ****. Characters need some kind of quick attack to be able to play effectively and he's just too **** slow to be usable."

I think they just increased his knockback so his attacks had more power to them, meaning that combos were just KO-striking someone over and over. I didn't go to E for All so I'm not sure.

Brawl's a WHOLE new ball game, as I'm sure we all know by now.

I'm the obsessive over hyped poster on the C.Falcon board lololol

 

[Speedsk8er]

Because the people that think he is haven't unlocked Ganon yet.

 

[IcantWin]

Because the people that think he is haven't unlocked Ganon yet.

I've never laughed so hard.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

I likes me some falcon. :D

 

[KeyKid19]

Because the people that think he is haven't unlocked Ganon yet.

Man's got jokes!

 

[Sh1n0b1]

Because the people that think he is haven't unlocked Ganon yet.

LOL, that **** is gold!

I really don't have much trouble with people that use Fox, Wolf, Falco, Olimar, Snake, Ike, Toon Link (yes i'm serious but it might also help that many of them are only ok, i faced one really good one but i fended well), and even characters as hard as meta knight. I really don't see what is so hard about those guys.

 

[Looper]

everyone thinks he's bad because they're so used to their melee

captain falcon isn't a character you can just pick up and be professional with him really easily, like wolf/toon link/falco/snake et cetera, he's going to take a lot more practice. and that doesn't mean practicing him melee style, this is brawl