Broken Camping Tactic

[Shai Hulud]

1. Jump to a platform and press Z as you land to light-shield. You can actually z-shield by holding Z during ANY kind of lag (waveland, l-cancelled aerial, normal landing lag, ground attack, platform tech, etc.) You need to angle the control stick slightly below the horizontal during the same lag that lets you Z-shield. Continue holding the control stick this direction.

2. Camp.

3. If your opponent doesn't approach, when your shield starts to wear off (it takes a while), wavedash off the platform or fall through using a Shai drop (see my sig). Or you could wavedash in place, empty SHFFL, etc., start dash dance camping the platform etc., when your shield regens (only takes a couple seconds) repeat.

4. If your opponent does approach, you are in a very advantageous position to punish them. If they hit your shield you will either slide off the platform or slide further onto the platform, depending on which side of the shield they hit and where you are on the platform. If you slide off, you can do a number of things. Depending on which way you are facing you could do a DJ bair, DJ dair, DJ nair, DJ uair, shine turned bair, etc., or you can just fall to the ground (which puts you in an advantageous position). If the hit sends you farther onto the platform, do a Shai drop after the shield stun ends, and then do a DJ aerial or fall to ground or whatever. If your opponent approaches instead by wavelanding on the platform intending to grab you, do a Shai drop and punish their lag.

This works best on the Dreamland top platform but any top platform and to a lesser extent side platforms work. Top platforms are generally better because it takes your opponent longer to approach and you have more time to capitalize on positional advantages if you land on the ground while they are on the platform.

If you do this a lot you will doubtlessly be labeled "gay" but it's a great way to stall for time at little to no risk for yourself.

 

[takieddine]

You just wanted to make this thread so you can say "shai drop"

 

[QuickSi1ver]

No matter how good the strategy may be, it doesn't matter if nobody will play with you for using it.

 

[Shai Hulud]

No matter how good the strategy may be, it doesn't matter if nobody will play with you for using it.

Well in a tournament you don't have much of a choice.

 

[Grunt]

and that's when Marth starts to charge a shield breaker.

 

[Winston]

No matter how good the strategy may be, it doesn't matter if nobody will play with you for using it.

There's something called "tournaments".

Or at least, there used to be before brawl >.>

 

[Shai Hulud]

and that's when Marth starts to charge a shield breaker.

Won't break a Z-shield unless it's charged up quite a bit...and if you get hit by a charged shield breaker you're most likely terrible.

 

[RaynEX]

This isn't broken. Shino-stalling is broken. This tactic is just annoying.

 

[DippnDots]

There's a way to get around this and it's so simple and hilarious I'm not going to speak it.


PS. You're assuming your opponent doesn't have a projectile, right? (There's still another way to get around this)

 

[RaynEX]

lmao..

counter-camping. What an idea!

-Sheik



bahahahah.

 

[Shai Hulud]

There's a way to get around this and it's so simple and hilarious I'm not going to speak it.


PS. You're assuming your opponent doesn't have a projectile, right? (There's still another way to get around this)

I'm not really assuming anything although the tactic's effectiveness certainly depends on things like stage and opponent. Most projectile characters will have a hard time hitting you on the top platform of Dreamland, except maybe Peach, Fox, and Falco. Lasers don't do much to a Z-shield however.

I've stalled out matches on Dreamland before and that was before I started doing this. I'm not saying you should literally sit there and Z-shield the whole match but you can certainly do it a couple times, result of which will be either running some time off the clock or putting yourself in a position to do some laser camping etc. Perhaps "broken" is an overstatement, but don't knock it too much until you try it yourself.

I am very curious about this simple and hilarious way to get around this tactic you mention. Enlighten me.

Anyway, the vast majority of players have not encountered this because it's obscure. Fact is 90% of the time if you sit there shielding your opponent is going to waveland and try to grab you.

And shine stalling is not broken. What's to keep your opponent from edgehogging you?

 

[RaynEX]

^ Try doing that in a Fox ditto.

Also, I doubt that the majority of Fox players in the smash community would want to trade the respect of their fellow smashers for this "broken" move.

I mean really, how good can you possibly be if part of your strategy is running out the clock. Its just sad, and really boring. Down with campers.

edit: That being said, some degree of camping is necessary in most of Fox's match-ups. Excessive camping is what I really dislike. Plank-like shino-stalling for 4 or 5minutes (in MELEE) is the example I'll give you. Better yet, IoriYagami running around as if laser was the only move Fox had.

 

[The Phenom]

As for just for fun DippnDots, I will speak of this technique that you wish not to omit because of your conceit of the simple technique or at least what I think you mean if I may by demonstrating.

What I think DippnDots is possibly trying to convey in this; "Theres a way to get around this and it's so simple and hilarious I'm not going to speak it".

^I presume what he infers is the following^

-wavedash on a platform to either side of it; left or right, and in the process immediately let go of the diagnal when you are about to wave dash off the platform IN A PATH THAT IS NO LONGER VERTICAL while retaining the R or L button as you refer.


^If done correctely, and taken no action until this point in time, you should fall straight down activating the invincibility state for about two seconds once on the floor. Furthermore, hence the use of the advantageous state, mind game to befuddle them on whether or not of he/she to attack you. More possibilities can be attainable from what Shai Hulud has proposed in his topic on top.

All of you guys should be able to do this no problem since a lot of us who stick with melee are technical in our strategies and minds that are affected by it...

 

[RaynEX]

Wow.

Are you just trying to sound smart or is that how you normally say things? 0_0

Overcompensation anyone...

 

[Shai Hulud]

^ Try doing that in a Fox ditto.

Also, I doubt that the majority of Fox players in the smash community would want to trade the respect of their fellow smashers for this "broken" move.

You're right, and I didn't think anyone would interpret this as applying to Fox dittos because camping is not really a viable strategy in that matchup. Also I don't really like Fox dittos. I'd rather go Marth or Falco...

I mean really, how good can you possibly be if part of your strategy is running out the clock. Its just sad, and really boring. Down with campers.

Running out the clock is actually pretty difficult. That said, sometimes it's a good strategy for when certain characters counterpick you to Dreamland. Fox can camp the hell out of this stage, and that's the only good thing about Dreamland for Fox. There's little reason for Fox to approach certain characters (Marth, Ganon, Peach, Samus, others) and your best bet is often to laser camp to force their approach. What I like to do on Dreamland is move around the platforms when approached on the ground, to try to regain a position where I can laser camp. If you get to the top platform you can do this z-shield tactic to put yourself back in a good position.

edit: That being said, some degree of camping is necessary in most of Fox's match-ups. Excessive camping is what I really dislike. Plank-like shino-stalling for 4 or 5minutes (in MELEE) is the example I'll give you. Better yet, IoriYagami running around as if laser was the only move Fox had.

When did Plank shine stall for 4 minutes? Keeping your invulnerability with shine stalls for more than a few seconds is REALLY HARD. Put three level 9 Peaches on a team against you and see how long you can shine stall without getting hit. If you can do it for 4 minutes then that is extremely impressive and you deserve the win if that's how you did it.

As for Iori, I saw his match with divinokage at GA if that's what you're talking about. Iori is beast with any character--don't think he won just because he played gay. Of course, in Fox vs. Ganon, camping really is the best strategy, and Iori is a smart enough player to realize that, so that's largely what he did.

 

[RaynEX]

You're right, and I didn't think anyone would interpret this as applying to Fox dittos because camping is not really a viable strategy in that matchup. Also I don't really like Fox dittos. I'd rather go Marth or Falco...

Running out the clock is actually pretty difficult. That said, sometimes it's a good strategy for when certain characters counterpick you to Dreamland. Fox can camp the hell out of this stage, and that's the only good thing about Dreamland for Fox. There's little reason for Fox to approach certain characters (Marth, Ganon, Peach, Samus, others) and your best bet is often to laser camp to force their approach. What I like to do on Dreamland is move around the platforms when approached on the ground, to try to regain a position where I can laser camp. If you get to the top platform you can do this z-shield tactic to put yourself back in a good position.


When did Plank shine stall for 4 minutes? Keeping your invulnerability with shine stalls for more than a few seconds is REALLY HARD. Put three level 9 Peaches on a team against you and see how long you can shine stall without getting hit. If you can do it for 4 minutes then that is extremely impressive and you deserve the win if that's how you did it.

As for Iori, I saw his match with divinokage at GA if that's what you're talking about. Iori is beast with any character--don't think he won just because he played gay. Of course, in Fox vs. Ganon, camping really is the best strategy, and Iori is a smart enough player to realize that, so that's largely what he did.

When I said "try doing that in a fox ditto", the rest of my text didn't apply to that same sentence. It was in a segment on its own. Again, when I said "trade respect for their fellow smashers for that broken move" - I wasn't at all implying it towards Fox dittos.

I meant that Fox players wouldn't want to use this camping thing (IN ANY MATCH-UP, not just the ditto), because they would want to RETAIN the respect smashers in the community currently give them.

Furthermore, notice I used the word "SHINO"-stall, not "SHINE" stall. As in Sheik's UP+B. Come on Shai, read man! I've heard of an incident where Plank made people quit matches because of his excessive use of ledge-stalling with the up+b.

AND FINALLY:

Okay, Iori is a cool guy and all - but that dude camps so hard. I understand that he has to watch the way he approaches and camp vs. Ganon sometimes. But overall, he camped in dittos, doubles, and eveything else he played. Maybe you're looking at the wrong Iori. That guy runs away all daaaai and just shoots you, regardless of match-up. Making him seem like a smart player because he runs away and shoots in every **** match-up means nothing. He is by no means an aggressive Fox. Then again, thats just his way of playing - I can respect that, because it isn't my place to judge him.

Fun Fact though: He made like 3 people forfeit at GA because of his "smart" playstyle. One of them was Caveman, another was a Marth that came from Canada with me.

Smart player? More like campy player.

I didn't mean to rant post, but it turned into one as I went along. There was just so much wrong with your post in response to mine.

Alright thats it, no more beef.

 

[Ja]

If he wins with his playstyle then it is working, and he should keep doing it. I don't get this camper hate.

 

[Shai Hulud]

What do you mean he made people forfeit? They chose not to play him because they didn't like his playstyle? Also didn't Iori beat Jman (with Mewtwo, I think?) in pools (maybe I am mistaken about this though, can't remember for certain). He has probably the second best Mewtwo in the country and Mewtwo can't camp.

Why does playing campy cause someone to lose respect anyway? Camping well isn't easy.

And my bad about the "shino stall" I thought that was slang for shine stall or something. I've only ever heard Sheik's up-B stall called up-B stall.

 

[RaynEX]

Caveman/Europhoria and another player quit vs. him. Its nothing personal, and I know camping is useful - I use it myself sometimes. The way some people utilize it though, its way too gay. It takes the fun out of the game, for real. I can fully comprehend using it as a tactic to gain the upperhand in a match-up.

But players like Iori, Plank and Hungrybox don't camp for control. They camp to piss you off, or at least thats what it seems like. If that wasn't the case, they'd switch it up and maybe go after you or something. But whether its the ditto, Bowser, or any other character...the whole running away thing till you opponent gets bored and angry is the "tactic" they use. >_>


Camping well is extremely easy. You run away and shoot. You 're telling me you've never faced a super campy player before? Hungrybox...Falcomist???

 

[CanISmash]

camping isn't as easy as you make it out to be....... but yeah it's gay.

btw as far as plank up-b stalling most tourneys don't allow excessive stalling so if he really wants a win that bad, why not just report it and take the dq for stalling. -_-

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

You can edgehog people that are shino stalling, so I don't get how Plank stalled for 4 minutes vs. a good opponent.

 

[Europhoria]

But players like Iori, Plank and Hungrybox don't camp for control. They camp to piss you off, or at least thats what it seems like. If that wasn't the case, they'd switch it up and maybe go after you or something. But whether its the ditto, Bowser, or any other character...the whole running away thing till you opponent gets bored and angry is the "tactic" they use. >_>

#1) You can't really enforce any rules against stalling >_> Please explain to me how you would.

#2) Hi GaynEX. You described the play-style of so many Americans. I personally lose all respect for you (loosely quoting Caveman) if the only way you can win is by taking all the fun out of the game for the other person until they just want to give up because of camping/stalling.
I could rant about why I think the play-style is stupid in depth (do you see any of those super stally idiots winning large tournaments against good players?), but I'll try summarizing it this way; do you honestly think myself, or any other player would travel far distances again if everyone played like that?

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Iori made CAVEMAN quit a match?? Seriously? Was it on a neutral or a really ridiculous counterpick?

 

[RaynEX]

I think it was Corneria...

I know that Caveman played him in the first match. But in the next one, Iori would like grab him, throw him, then run away and shoot. He actually combo-ed into camping, if that even makes any sense. -_-

Caveman was emo the whole day afterwards. That kind of playstyle is dumb.

 

[ragnarock]

Whatever get the job done, a win is a win.

 

[KevinM]

Has brawl really turned people into such scrubs that they have started complaining about camping. Get the **** over it. It's a tournament I'll laser you for 8 minutes ALL DAI

 

[E.M.]

Yes in brawl camping is more commonplace but this results a deeper understanding of how camping works and how to get around it. I saw a video here once of a Ganon taking a massive steaming dump on a ridiculously campy/spammy toon link.

 

[SHDW23]

Yes in brawl camping is more commonplace but this results a deeper understanding of how camping works and how to get around it. I saw a video here once of a Ganon taking a massive steaming dump on a ridiculously campy/spammy toon link.

have you ever played melee? and why are you posting in the melee boards? as always, i'm not trying to be mean. i really want to know what draws people like you to post about brawl on the melee boards.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

I saw a video here once of a Ganon taking a massive steaming dump on ... toon link.

HAWT

Spoiler

10chars

 

[DippnDots]

Lasers don't do much to a Z-shield however.

They don't need to do much if you're a sitting duck

I am very curious about this simple and hilarious way to get around this tactic you mention. Enlighten me.
you?

When I played against AlphaZealot a lot, after every stock his Dr.Mario took off my Ganon he'd jump up on a platform and do exactly as you say, sit on the edge of it and lightshield. This way, if I were to attack him, he'd fall off and be able to get away from harm, essentially negating my invincibility frame advantage. One time I tried it and he pushed me off the platform without any attacks, and because of that he was able to start a combo before I could do anything.

 

[RaynEX]

^ Thats stupid...

KevinM: Everyone has their own stance when it comes to camping. Its useful yes, and maybe you can joke about using it for 8minutes...

but really, do you think you would?

 

[KirbyKaze]

^ unknown posting (forgot to log out) he's american...take a guess

 

[Oskurito]

Camping is just another strategy of the game, it doesn't matter if it's gay or not it's most likely beatable just like any other strat in the game. You just have to notice the common habbits of the camper and punish.

But personally I would just double jump > double laser on platform (with falco) > drop > laser (repeat) until you do something else

 

[RaynEX]

Oskurito, you've probably never played Americans, and therefore can't grasp this gayness like we do.

Trust me when I say that even if you knew every move they made during a camp-happy stock of theirs, the camping would still neutralize everything.

Fox is like priority with feet. If you approach him you're so screwed.

 

[KirbyKaze]

i really don't see this affecting his most common matchups but if you feel a deep need to further stall time against weaker characters like puff and ics and whatnot, hey, why not.

 

[E.M.]

have you ever played melee? and why are you posting in the melee boards? as always, i'm not trying to be mean. i really want to know what draws people like you to post about brawl on the melee boards.

I just thought that since brawl encourages more camping (especially with projectiles), it's accepted and players try to get around it the best they can. The video I saw of ganon beating a campy toon link was a great example. I don't know how bad camping is in melee as I don't have enough experience with the game, but considering that melee has a deeper metagame overall than brawl leads me to believe that a good melee player would have no problem getting through an opponent who camps/stalls/spams/ whatever.

As to whether I've played melee, yes, I've been getting more playtime with it recently and it is a pretty bad *** game. And SHFFLasering with Fox is just awesome. I'm just getting that down but it is hard because I only play lightning melee and tricks like that require extreme precision. I can't consistently do it that fast.

Well I'm going off topic so ...

end.

 

[SHDW23]

thank you EM. you are the first person i've asked who's answered.

 

[Tee ay eye]

For some reason, I have a feeling that this wouldn't even work in a real match.

 

[DippnDots]

^ Thats stupid...

KevinM: Everyone has their own stance when it comes to camping. Its useful yes, and maybe you can joke about using it for 8minutes...

but really, do you think you would?

I've seen a peach camp 8 minutes on jungle japes against a Ganon. Flames of Bowser, Ignatious vs joe bushman111.

 

[RaynEX]

^ 0_0

lol this camping stuff just makes me laugh now. I duno why I turned into a drama llama about it to being with.