Britches and Hose Mafia - Game Over!

[adumbrodeus]

Because it shows that he actually cares to catch scum. The evidence being that he's thinking for himself.

Against somebody voting him with no real case at the time? Crap reasoning, you should know better.

Again, I agree with you, I just think you're giving him too much credit for just that one thing. Newb scum colud of done that to by pure accident.

The whole "it wasn't an accusation" thing came after your original post where you stated that Skor was "absolute town."

Why do you think that noob scum would do this?

What do you think of Felipe's (I think it was his, correct me if I'm worng)) recent accusation against Skor? Agree, disagree?

I don't like this at all, if you don't even know who did it, how can you have an actual case in mind? This reaks of shotgun approach to attacking slot, seems much more aimed at discrediting the slot then actual scumhunting.

I think your confusing weak stances for being wishy-washy. Being wishy-washy means wavering between stances, which I am not. If your going to accuse me for this then please let me envole my play first, because you don't really know yet if my stances are going to continue to be weak (which they won't be). I think that, considering how early it is, it's fair to not be totally sold on any read just yet.

Absolutely not, that's waffling. Wishy washy is having stances so weak that you can essentially flip to anyone without any need for substanitial backpeddling.

Your play is much too safe sword, I don't like it at all.

I would like to though strengthen my town reads on Soup, July, Felipe, and Kantrip though, and weaken my read on Skor.

heh? What do you mean?

Just because I felt like a bunch of people were ganging up on him for a generic reason.

Any suspicion against July I'll drop though.

Only because you didn't read.

 

[Kantrip]

So it was because I chose Soup that people thought I was serious? Wow Soup, you must have a real bad rep and player record if a D1 policy quicklynch is feasible.

Adum, is it the Disco Room quote that changed your mind? Or did you do a re-read? I'll get to your question and other things I want to address when I have computer access.

 

[Swiss]

Skimmed but manflu incapacitates even the towniest of townies.

Vote: JTB

Think that's L-1?

 

[adumbrodeus]

So it was because I chose Soup that people thought I was serious? Wow Soup, you must have a real bad rep and player record if a D1 policy quicklynch is feasible.

Adum, is it the Disco Room quote that changed your mind? Or did you do a re-read? I'll get to your question and other things I want to address when I have computer access.

Disco room, definitely disco room. My remaining point of contention was solely that your self-meta didn't fit your actual play, but if future games showed a trend towards the treatment of RVS that your post reflected then I could see it.


Could you answer my remaining question though?

 

[adumbrodeus]

EBWOP: They did show that trend, your examples and JTB's impression show it. The only reason I'd have to disbelieve you at this point is if the other people with droom access show you're lying. Very unlikely, but confirm-able, so worth it.

 

[Gova]

1. adumbrodeus ()
2. Seikend ()
3. Terywj ()
4. Sokr (2) Felipe, July
5. Kantrip (1) RR
6. Sworddancer. (1) adumbrodeus
7. JTB (3) Asdioh, Sworddancer, Swiss,
8. Swiss (1) JTB
9. Soupamario ()
10. Felipe_9595 (1) Tery
11. July ()
12. Asdioh ()
13. Red Ryu (1) Soup

Not voting - Seikend, Sokr, Kantrip

With 13 playing, it takes 7 to lynch!

Deadline is November 17th at 11:59 PM CST (GMT-6)!

 

[adumbrodeus]

...

Ok, I'm a ******* and misread JTB. Rethinking Kantrip a bit, it makes sense given the quotes that I have, but conflicts with JTB's impression (this is why I wanted quote dumping, not impressions).


Switching him to null at the moment, I still note droom game quotes in regards to Kantrip's rvs behavior. From anyone with access at this point.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Adumb's reasoning for Sokr town in 59 is something I can agree with, as far as a new scum player not standing up to a power player like Swiss. However, the last part of his reasoning doesn't sit well with me.
To say that only confident and good scum would initiate against Swiss makes me feel like you are trying to scare players into not questioning Swiss for fear of a scum read.

Odd comment, what makes you think my 59 encourages that?

 

[Kantrip]

Vote: JTB

Part omgus, part I agree with whoever just pressured him.

Manflu and still headed to work. Trooper.

K vote jtb

Skimmed but manflu incapacitates even the towniest of townies.

Vote: JTB

Think that's L-1?

>Swiss voting three times.

Disco room, definitely disco room. My remaining point of contention was solely that your self-meta didn't fit your actual play, but if future games showed a trend towards the treatment of RVS that your post reflected then I could see it.


Could you answer my remaining question though?

Yeah I'll get that in a second. I would like you to explain to me what the disco room quote did for you and why. Tell me what matched up and why your read on me is what it is now. It seems like a huge jump to be at where you are now because of one quote from a different game that you can't even read in full.

...

Ok, I'm a ******* and misread JTB. Rethinking Kantrip a bit, it makes sense given the quotes that I have, but conflicts with JTB's impression (this is why I wanted quote dumping, not impressions).


Switching him to null at the moment, I still note droom game quotes in regards to Kantrip's rvs behavior. From anyone with access at this point.

How did you read JTB originally? What made you reconsider it and then subsequently write it off as a "mis-read"?

Switching JTB to null or me to null?

 

[Kantrip]

I now believe kantrip, the only odd point that I find is the lack of real sarcastic or jovial tone which seemed to characterize his posts, but looking at his future posts, he seemed to be taking that from sheer ridiculousness of the situation, not realizing that certain things soup has done in the past would make a serious policy lynch a possibility (holds record for most modkills, nuff said).

I don't see how it's odd that my post didn't display sarcasm. The fact that I was advocating a quick-lynch on Soup seemed like enough to me. I didn't realize Soup was notorious for his modkills to the point of that actually being an option. Ever. Anyways, I hope we can stop this because it has wasted a lot of time and you have spent the majority of all of your posts talking about it. Could you give a few examples of what "future posts" you looked at and what you got from them?

I would've preferred more posts and details from droom games, but the overall impression gives me enough and I'd like to explore other areas. I would however like everyone with droom access to double check to confirm JTB's impression as well as Kantrip's post as being representative.

How much weight do you put into the quotes from external games? Explain the overall impression.

I'll explain my reasoning on this now. Previously I didn't think that he would make such a post in RVS because it didn't fit with RVS. His self-meta didn't mesh with my experience with him, so I needed to see if he took this view in more recent RVSes. There's still a tone of joviality in those posts but I'm now of the opinion that he thought that it would come across as jovial just because it was supporting a policy lynch, and the only reason it was taken seriously is because... well it's soup. We all know his history.

I think I kind of understand now that the only problem was that it's Soup. The games I have played in chronological order are:

Disco Room UPick (Disco Room)
Newbie 13
Awkward Moments Mafia
Majora's Mask
Housepets (Disco Room)
Britches and Hose

I think this is right.

I didn't start developing my own opinions on things or trying unique things in my playstyle until after I had played the newbie game. My belief on RVS was not something I had before I ever played mafia. After playing in two games (and watching RVS happen in my third game as scum) is when I would say I kind of had my own grasp of the game and could stand on my own two feet. You can't honestly say you expect what I say I believe now to match up with my first games when I didn't have any opinions. Did you really think this? I'd say you did, as you tried to bring up a quote from the newbie game to prove why I'm wrong in this game. In my opinion, that is when your argument became incredibly flawed and stupid. At the start, it at least had some base behind it. How you followed up on it, however, is where my problem lies. It stopped looking like town intent and started looking like you were trying to portray me in a bad light using... examples of discrepancies from one of my first games of mafia. Tell me adum, do you think your developing case against me in the early game was well founded, looking back at it now?

There is pretty much only one question remaining from this slot at this time.


@Kantrip: During your 119 you decided to make a change from attacking me and my argument to attacking just my argument. Why?

I don't really know what you mean here. How was I attacking you beforehand? Are you asking why my 119 showed a change in how I was approaching things? I think this can explain itself: If one method of communicating a point is not working, try another one.

Ok, overall reads time:


Town:

Sokr
Soup
Kantrip

Leaning town:

Asdioh
Tery

null

Swiss
JTB
Felipe
July

Leaning scum

Seikend

Scum

Red Ryu
Swordsdancer


Reasoning


Explained my townreads extensively.

Asdioh lines up with my reads pretty well and seems open and contributing, but I haven't seen anything that SCREAMS town from him.

Tery is playing too similarly to the numerous examples I've seen of him playing badtown, and this seems to be no different. Wanna read him a little more closely and perhaps get some meta on tery scum, but right now I'm comfortable with the slot.

Swiss is swiss. A bit uncomfortable with his lack of being here in general and the super-light content OMGUS, but not enough for a real scumread cause I think that town-swiss would do that too.


JTB - the only statement I see that's really odd is his godfather point, his content is shallowed and limited, but it straddles the line between shallow by design and shallow because of sheer inactivity.


Felipe - Doing a lot of noobtown things, but I'm having sincere difficulty estimating his player level and therefore recognizing whether he's doing them because he thinks they're a good idea, or doing them to look noobtown.


July - I honestly need to read her in depth at some point soon, she just hasn't made any impression on me whatsoever.

Seikend - Rubs me the wrong way, posts seem more concerned with pre-emptive defenses then actually scumhunting, and seems rather wishy washy.

RR - One REALLY odd thing about this slot, he asks a ton of questions, but never follows up on the answers to the questions or explains what the answers told him. His town games seem to value analysis over questioning a lot (ex. megaman x). Yea, you can die.


Sworddancer - Really don't like this slot at all. The wishy washyness, the bad scholarship when he attacked people who called kantrip out on being defensive. Large posts with a lot of words, but little in the way of actual analysis, he also does the never followed up question thing, but to a much lesser extent. Even when he pushes, it's against really safe targets. Die please.


Unvote, Vote: Sworddancer


Lemme break it off there so post isn't absolutely massive.

"Large posts with a lot of words, but little in the way of actual analysis".

Wait... you're pointing at Sword as scum for this? Have you read JTB's posts? How about Swiss'? Maybe yours?

Are you saying Sword's case on JTB and the questions he's been asking are hollow? I don't get why you're getting Swordscum out of this.

 

[Kantrip]

Sokr, in your 349, you state that you have a null on both Swiss and Adumb. However, in your 353 just a few posts down, you state that Swiss is now a scum read and Adumb is now leaning town.

Yes, yes he did. What of it? This almost seems like too obvious of IIoA. No questions asked, no follow-up, no observations, no opinion of it. JTB just states what happened and moves on to his next point.

Soup, explain to me how RR's 317 can be anything other than a null tell. Do you think if RR was scum, he would try to be demoralizing Tery to push him as a policy lynch?

I do agree with your 315 though.

JTB what did you hope to gain from this question? It looks hollow to me, and then you ask something random and baseless about what RR might do as scum.

Anyways, reads because I feel like I have a strong enough grasp on what's going on.

Town

Asdioh - I've been finding my thoughts aligning with his (aside from his scum read on me of course), so I'm comfortable with him.

Your explanation of a town read on Asdioh is similar thoughts? How is this a towntell in the slightest? What is stopping scum from saying something that you happen to agree with? This is a very shallow read on Asdioh based off of surface-value reading.

Sworddancer - Pretty much the same as Asdioh, his read on Kantrip due to the Adumb vote and Swiss pointing out the 'vig crumb' are things that also came up in my read. I don't agree with the Tery read though, but maybe that's just due to knowing how Tery usually plays.

Same thing. This is based on you agreeing with what other people posted, and not even those things are valid points to draw a read off of.

Sokr - More so null leaning town. I agree with Adumb about Sokr's early 'push' on Swiss as town read, but not convinced he's town just yet.

Null

Tery - While his behavior this game does match that of his town play in his previous games, I have yet to see how he plays as scum as well so I don't really know how to read him yet.

July - Unsure how I feel about her. I would like her to answer my previous questions to her in my 427 and my 345.

felipe - No idea how to read felipe atm. I'll deal with that later.

Kantrip - This isn't so much a null but just a placeholder.

Soup - Placeholder for Soup as well, I want him to answer my questions.

Adumb - Want to see what he plans to do with the RVS information from me about Kantrip first.

Seikend - Nothing to go off on until he posts more.

Every single one of these are placeholders (so no read) or are so shallow they might as well be placeholders.

Scum

Swiss - Nothing has made me feel better about Swiss since his first post. His pointing out a potential vig crumb, his post to RR saying that he should always be read as town, and trying to coerce town into following him/adumb/sword into a lynch. Then his vote on RR that he hasn't actually done anything with or even explained, he just placed it there (not randomly) and ignored it.

So you don't like how Swiss pointed out a vig crumb, yet you say the same thing came up in your read? Just clarifying here. Really, this read is just as hollow as the rest of them.

RR - More null leaning scummy than actually scum. I don't understand why his RVS vote on Adumb could not be moved until I posted according to his 168, it feels like he was predetermined to vote me but simply waiting on some content to jump on.

Vote: Swiss

Lol. I feel like a broken record here.

Kantrip, wrt to your Housepets mafia vote on John, I want you to describe to me how you followed up on your vote because I don't see it at all.

Read over the conversation that ensued between John and I again as a result of my vote. Then define "following up" for me. I got a read off of John based on that conversation, too, so I don't see how you can't see it as following up.

Soup, I want you to explain your scum read on Seikend because I don't see how he can be anything except null with only 3 posts in the game.

And now I go to get Skyrim. brb never

This isn't the only post that JTB's had that looks like this. On the contrary, I can't see any of JTB's posts that don't look like this. Nothing has any basis behind it; he's either reading at surface value and posting very hollow things as a result of his limited access, or he's scum avoiding content by posting very hollow things with limited access as an added excuse to try to cover this up.

FoS: JTB

Consider my vote on him. I'm just not sure if other people are fine with the wagon where it is currently. I want to hear JTB's defense and see what comes of this pressure. In Housepets he got lynched D1 due to a good case by T-Block (who was scum) that town sheeped to a mis-lynch. I don't want to make that mistake again.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I cannot speak right now obviously. I meant you to null kantrip. Until I get a better view of your droom activity.


And some sleep it seems.

 

[Kantrip]

Okay in that case I would like to know what made me town in the first place when you get around to responding to all that.

 

[felipe_9595]

Vote: JBS

He is going to blow guys.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I don't see how it's odd that my post didn't display sarcasm. The fact that I was advocating a quick-lynch on Soup seemed like enough to me. I didn't realize Soup was notorious for his modkills to the point of that actually being an option. Ever. Anyways, I hope we can stop this because it has wasted a lot of time and you have spent the majority of all of your posts talking about it. Could you give a few examples of what "future posts" you looked at and what you got from them?

As in future relative to games that are public and that I've referenced to.

How much weight do you put into the quotes from external games? Explain the overall impression.

Quite a lot, I take meta very seriously and analytically as a general rule.

My impression based at least on the posts you and JTB quoted is that your method of RVS pressure does make sense for you, namely targeted semi-jovial pressure in hopes of eliciting specific responses.

I think I kind of understand now that the only problem was that it's Soup. The games I have played in chronological order are:

Disco Room UPick (Disco Room)
Newbie 13
Awkward Moments Mafia
Majora's Mask
Housepets (Disco Room)
Britches and Hose

I think this is right.

I didn't start developing my own opinions on things or trying unique things in my playstyle until after I had played the newbie game. My belief on RVS was not something I had before I ever played mafia. After playing in two games (and watching RVS happen in my third game as scum) is when I would say I kind of had my own grasp of the game and could stand on my own two feet. You can't honestly say you expect what I say I believe now to match up with my first games when I didn't have any opinions. Did you really think this? I'd say you did, as you tried to bring up a quote from the newbie game to prove why I'm wrong in this game. In my opinion, that is when your argument became incredibly flawed and stupid. At the start, it at least had some base behind it. How you followed up on it, however, is where my problem lies. It stopped looking like town intent and started looking like you were trying to portray me in a bad light using... examples of discrepancies from one of my first games of mafia. Tell me adum, do you think your developing case against me in the early game was well founded, looking back at it now?

I think you misunderstand.

It's this understanding of your meta that made me go for this case, it's my understanding of your meta that makes me question it.


Were it just about anyone else, I wouldn't have believed it. Now that based on this window, somewhat inclined to believe you've taken this anti-metagame view on RVS, and if I did not have this information I would still have you as a scumpick.

I don't really know what you mean here. How was I attacking you beforehand? Are you asking why my 119 showed a change in how I was approaching things? I think this can explain itself: If one method of communicating a point is not working, try another one.

Alright alright makes sense.


I question it because the change in tone seemed to correspond with a change in perception of alignment based on your tone.

Reflecting a change in persuasion methods makes sense but is fundamentally null.

"Large posts with a lot of words, but little in the way of actual analysis".

Wait... you're pointing at Sword as scum for this? Have you read JTB's posts? How about Swiss'? Maybe yours?

Are you saying Sword's case on JTB and the questions he's been asking are hollow? I don't get why you're getting Swordscum out of this.

Not really, it's more evident in his walls of multi-quotes which look really substantial but the actual responses he writes are very shot on real analysis, because they're extremely short responses which are also shallow.

Basically a fake content tell, not an absolute tell on it's own, but there's a lot of other things coming from that slot that I don't like as I stated before.

Okay in that case I would like to know what made me town in the first place when you get around to responding to all that.

Because I thought JTB was confirming your story, the overall consistency gave my sufficient confidence that you actually were telling the truth and not merely attempting to duck out of a vote you were getting flack for.

 

[Kantrip]

Can I expect a case on Sword from you or at least an explanation of the other things you found scummy?

Also, can anyone confirm that adum is often focused on meta when he plays as a general rule? I find this strange and unreliable, but it would at least make sense.

 

[felipe_9595]

Derp vote:JBS

 

[Sokr]

@Swiss: answer my question. why did you point out your vig read on sword if that would obviously raise the attention of scum?

@adum: what is your opinion on swiss' vig read on sword? Obviously you don't think its true, but what do you think of the reasoning behind it?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

I was v/la today due to a fest, and will be tomorrow due to a tourny. Adumb just skimming the thread it seems you've raised a couple points for me to respond to, but I have a class at 7am in the mourning and I just got back from the fest, so I don't want to waste any seep responding to it. I'll get to it after class.

 

[Kantrip]

I will be V/LA at a tournament tomorrow.

 

[Sokr]

@tery

you seem a lot more open and talkative in our newbie game than in this game. mind explaining why you think that is?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Sworddancer - Really don't like this slot at all. The wishy washyness, the bad scholarship when he attacked people who called kantrip out on being defensive. Large posts with a lot of words, but little in the way of actual analysis, he also does the never followed up question thing, but to a much lesser extent. Even when he pushes, it's against really safe targets. Die please.

So your attacking me because I set my stances up so that I could change them if need be. Okay then, in that case you should know the first time I have taken stances, most of the changes that I have made to my reads is strengthening them. I just haven't been all that vocal about it. If your interested in them, then ask for them. If your waiting for me to just say it naturally without outside influence, then I don't know what else to say but that I will when I feel like it.

I've been pretty firm with all of my stances in general, beside from maybe Tery who I called "iffy" as of late, so I don't know where this wishy-washyness has been coming from. I think your honestly focusing too much on my first post, where my reads are weaker then they are now. Again, if you think I'm playing too safe with my stances then ask for them and "force" me to take them, because I ensure you I will.

I don't know what you mean by "bad schoolarship" or how it's scummy.

I have followed up on some of my questions, but not many, admitttingly. Most of my questions are designed for future reference, i.e. information to reference latter. Not everything needs to be followed up on.

Do you define JTB as a safe push? Are you going to let people get off the hook just because pushing them is easy? I will not lie, noticing the scum in JTB was pretty easy, but so what? That doesn't make him any less scummy.

Don't be generic, just because someone is easy to push (which JTB is, as he looks like fairly obvious scum to me) doesn't mean that the push is bad.

Against somebody voting him with no real case at the time? Crap reasoning, you should know better.

So what if the case was bad? That's just the effect that you're reading into the case, not the intent. Kantrip honestly thought you were scummy, the fact that is was for poor reasoning just means that he didn't think it through thoroughly. At worst, it should be interpret as anti-town. I find though that there was genuine effort in Kantrip's part.

Also considering what else he's done, like attack Felipe and analysis your posts as of late, only serve to strengthen that genuine effort read that I'm getting out of him.

Why do you think that noob scum would do this?

Perhaps because his scummates told him to make a RVS vote to look natural? It's a possibility.

I don't like this at all, if you don't even know who did it, how can you have an actual case in mind? This reaks of shotgun approach to attacking slot, seems much more aimed at discrediting the slot then actual scumhunting.

I don't know what the shotgun approach is.

Is Felipe more scummy now because of that? Can you not see it from his point of view how it may of appeared that Sokr was being cautious?

Absolutely not, that's waffling. Wishy washy is having stances so weak that you can essentially flip to anyone without any need for substanitial backpeddling.

Your play is much too safe sword, I don't like it at all.

Refer to the above, I've gained stronger stances since, but I just haven't stated them.

heh? What do you mean?

If you want me to elaborate then I'll do it tomorrow. Off to a tournament today and all.

Only because you didn't read.

I know what I've reed, and I reed three people consecutively jump one of my town reads because he was being "too defensive," which I find to be a week case in general. I didn't menton this before, but on top of that I didn't really even find anything about Kantrip's defense to be abnormal.

JTB - the only statement I see that's really odd is his godfather point, his content is shallowed and limited, but it straddles the line between shallow by design and shallow because of sheer inactivity.

No.

Nothing about the fact that JTB has been somewhat inactivity has anything to do with the fact that his posts are weak, shallow, and forced. You're seriously going to be giving scum free passes if you're simply going to excuse them for stuff like this.

Read list for Adumb:

Soup
Kantrip
Asdioh
Swiss
Adumb
July
RR
Skor
Tery
Seikend

JTB

Explanation after tourny.

 

[Asdioh]

Felipe, what exactly are your reads? Do you want the JTB lynch to go through toDay? Who will you be looking at as scum if JTB flips scum? What if JTB flips town?

I've been reading through your posts lately and ... they're pretty much just filler.

 

[felipe_9595]

I got a bit bored after page 25.

well, i dont know what to think about the flips, this game have partial flips so

 

[Asdioh]

This has nothing to do with partial flips. I imagine the flips will only hide the person's role, not alignment. If we lynch someone, it will almost certainly say "Town ???" or "Mafia ???" or maybe even "Independent ???" when they flip.

Just so you know.

Maybe it's a little soon to look for connections, but I'm still interested in your scumpicks.

 

[JTB]

preemptive prod dodge

my league tournament is tomorrow afternoon, so ill get to this tomorrow night

 

[Jim Morrison]

Posting to confirm my replacement status.

 

[Asdioh]

Judging by the activity of this game, and the way this Day is going, I'd say a claim by JTB is in order.

Is Seikend being replaced? He hasn't posted for 4 days.

 

[Kantrip]

Hmm this game is sort of dead right now. I agree with seeing a JTB claim soon.

@Sworddancer.: Does JTB scum make Seikend scum more likely? Less likely? Doesn't change anything? What does a JTB townflip give us connections-wise?

 

[Sokr]

Who's gustave?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Deadline is in 4 days, not counting this one. Now would be a good time for JTB to claim.

Kantrip I haven't put any thought into who I would go with next after a JTB scum/town flip.
A lot of it depends on how the rest of the day pans out. However, by default itf he flips town then I'll probably be looking into Seikend/one of my null reads. If he flips scum then I'll definitely be rereading this game over the Night to look for connections (that's actually why I wanted a read list out of him btw). Seikend scum doesn't necessarily seem more likely just because of a JTB scum flip, but it's still a definite possibility. Since neither player has really interacted with another there exists no specific connections to speak of.

Soup
Kantrip
Asdioh
Swiss
Adumb
July
RR
Skor
Tery
Seikend
JTB

Ah yes, getting back to these after I said I would.

Soup is looking fairly obvious town to me. There are several reasons for this. One , he has been the most active when it comes to giving out stances, and he's often one of the first to give them. So basically he's taking the lead, and we know from this that his stances are original. Not only this, but I recall him going against the tide in several instances to do what he believed in, which adds to his genuine nature. It doesn't hurt that his reads match mine.

Kantrip town read is more or less for the same reason as Soup town read. He appears to be genuinely trying to scum hunt to me. Whenever he pushes someone I can see why he would think that as a newb townie. He also seems to be trying to produce content with questions and all, so yeah.

Sure, his Adumb push was a bad OMGUS, but that's honestly a natural reaction less experienced players have. Same thing with being "overly defensive." If someone feels thy are being threaten by someone then they are more likely to find evil in what is threatening them. Hell, in a way that's part of what kept Adumb on Kantrip for so long.

Asdioh reads townie just because he seems to be on top of things. Stuff like giving out stances which I can agree, making observations and all. Uh, and that's it. Kinda lazy here on him but I'm pretty sure if Asdioh was scum then I'll know it.

Swiss is definite making some keen observations, and his reads are similar to mine. Other then that, he hasn't left all that much of an impact on me.

Btw if this guy is still alive on Day 3 then I want you guys to lynch him on general policy. Unless he's playing like *** or some PR claims then he really shouldn't be alive by then. Just, you know, lynch him if he's alive too long.

Also I'm dropping the whole vig question now. There is no reason for anyone to ask that question either way.

July is the same thing as Swiss. Has stated reads that are similar to mine (just as supporting that JTB push) and has made some observations, but again not much else of impact has been left on me by her. Her style seems to me to be a bit of sideline commentary, but then I remember that she does that pretty much no matter what alignment so I can't really take that for anything but null. I don't know what she plans to do with that Sokr vote and I'll like here to tell me/remind me.

Felipe has been very open and honest this game, just as openly admitting things that someone could use against that I honestly don't think he'll have the courage to do as
scum. Otherwise he's somewhat lacking in stances so I'm keeping him out of the obvious town category. Maybe if he picks it up I'll let him in.

I'm changing my read on Sokr from null to slight noob town despite the fact that he seems to be cautious of things. I can see noob town doing that to, and he hasn't totally avioded stances. Mainly though, I'm just going to again be lazy and call him gut.

RR and Tery are both iffy people who could go either way. It's tempting to call both Tery and Sokr noob town, but I really don't know, just because meta scum Tery has acted the same as well. Tery's kinda stancless and that Felipe vote doesn't really convince me at all. RR on the other hand has just been out of mind to me honestly. He's a super case of someone with no real impact, which means I should investigate him more, I guess.

Seikend is slight scum for being super stanceless, but since he's legit inactive that keeps me from calling him definite scum. Really I'm just hyper focused on

JTB, who I've already explained.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Who's gustave?

Guy who was originally going to play this game but got replaced the last minute due to being ban for a week.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Yes, yes he did. What of it? This almost seems like too obvious of IIoA. No questions asked, no follow-up, no observations, no opinion of it. JTB just states what happened and moves on to his next point.




JTB what did you hope to gain from this question? It looks hollow to me, and then you ask something random and baseless about what RR might do as scum.




Your explanation of a town read on Asdioh is similar thoughts? How is this a towntell in the slightest? What is stopping scum from saying something that you happen to agree with? This is a very shallow read on Asdioh based off of surface-value reading.



Same thing. This is based on you agreeing with what other people posted, and not even those things are valid points to draw a read off of.



Every single one of these are placeholders (so no read) or are so shallow they might as well be placeholders.



So you don't like how Swiss pointed out a vig crumb, yet you say the same thing came up in your read? Just clarifying here. Really, this read is just as hollow as the rest of them.



Lol. I feel like a broken record here.




Read over the conversation that ensued between John and I again as a result of my vote. Then define "following up" for me. I got a read off of John based on that conversation, too, so I don't see how you can't see it as following up.



This isn't the only post that JTB's had that looks like this. On the contrary, I can't see any of JTB's posts that don't look like this. Nothing has any basis behind it; he's either reading at surface value and posting very hollow things as a result of his limited access, or he's scum avoiding content by posting very hollow things with limited access as an added excuse to try to cover this up.

FoS: JTB

Consider my vote on him. I'm just not sure if other people are fine with the wagon where it is currently. I want to hear JTB's defense and see what comes of this pressure. In Housepets he got lynched D1 due to a good case by T-Block (who was scum) that town sheeped to a mis-lynch. I don't want to make that mistake again.

Yes, yes, and yes.

Let us put him at L_2. Vote plox.

July, II want your read on RR and Seikend if you'll please.

 

[Kantrip]

Okay.

Vote: JTB

 

[Asdioh]

Oh yeah, July is in this game, isn't she?

What's with this inactivity? JTB and I are the only ones playing Skyrim, unless I'm mistaken.
Tery is having internet problems and apparently replacing out?
Seikend I don't know.

 

[JTB]

Might as well just claim now so we don't waste time. I'm a VT.

League tournament turned into a lan party after we lost, but I should be leaving soon so I'll be around in a few hours.

 

[Kantrip]

Hey JTB, do you think your lynch would provide any connections for town to work off of?

 

[JTB]

I've only skimmed what's happened since my v/la started, but people seemed to jump on my wagon rather quick after swords' case, so there's information there.

 

[July]

Oh yeah, July is in this game, isn't she?

What's with this inactivity? JTB and I are the only ones playing Skyrim, unless I'm mistaken.
Tery is having internet problems and apparently replacing out?
Seikend I don't know.

Yes I am, just didn't post this weekend because I was spending time with the boyfriend. Not much activity means I'll be caught up in no time.

I need to answer questions layed out for me and I've been distracted, I'm going home today so I was thinking about presenting a case but you beat me to it swords.

Homestuck update btw

Gonna wait to vote, I'm looking over my reads one last time, also, I need to see JTBs refute.

Soup, is there anything you want to add to the JTB case? If JTB is lynched toDay, who will you look at on a scum flip? On a town flip?

July is the same thing as Swiss. Has stated reads that are similar to mine (just as supporting that JTB push) and has made some observations, but again not much else of impact has been left on me by her. Her style seems to me to be a bit of sideline commentary, but then I remember that she does that pretty much no matter what alignment so I can't really take that for anything but null. I don't know what she plans to do with that Sokr vote and I'll like here to tell me/remind me.

The Sokr vote was trying to push him and force him to take strong stances and actually back up his accusations (make a case, try and convince people). He actually did the opposite and went back on his reads on Swiss and Adum and really hasn't presented anything since, and that doesn't set well with me; that seems to me like more than a newbie issue of taking stances, it seems like purposefully avoiding conflict or getting your hands dirty.

Yes, yes, and yes.

Let us put him at L_2. Vote plox.

July, II want your read on RR and Seikend if you'll please.

Seikend is null, there just isn't enough information from him; the only thing I remember him commenting on was Adum v. Kantrip and having a weak stance on that. I need to see more from him or he needs a replacement.

RR is also someone who hasn't left a huge impression of me so I reread him. In his first 10 or so posts I'm seeing questions, speculation on RVS, and advice, but no real stances until his #210. However with this post:

Don't be silly. I'm telling you to get a town read on me.

Why?

I'm town, but why should I trust you with a town read. I've got a big fat null so far.



His #199?

From what I can tell, I learn nothing of his scum picks if I also take his past posts into consideration.

At best he has a dislike of Felipe, You a tad maybe, and myself.

Otherwise a lot of it was a big pack of fluff. Some of it is content over with how he is making comments about Felipe. I'm not certain to think this was done with scum intent, I don't like his previous posts where he posted nothing to help me see where is overall head it at.

That post helps me with some individual players but still only gives info on Felipe, Adumb, and Kantrip. But still is in the dark of everyone else on alignment.

This is his comment on Tery's post and makes me think he really isn't found of Tery at this point, but that's it and that's pretty weak 210 posts into the game and with things like Kantrip v. Adum going down. I also thought the last paragraph was about himself, but it appears he's talking about being in the dark about Tery's reads, but I'm finding that pretty funny because I'm in the dark about RR's reads on those people and pretty much everyone in the game except Tery at this point.

But then his #302 and #303 take a jump away from any Tery suspicion and he says this to Kantrip when he votes for Tery:

I really dislike this jump from Kantrip, your either offering a policy lynch, which there isn't a clear need for such yet, or your doing it because you think he is scum. Save it for later.

That seems awfully defensive of someone that in his next post RR admits he has trouble reading, which now moves Tery to null for him? All in all I'm unclear of how RR feels about Tery but I do know he doesn't want Kantrip putting pressure on him, which I think was fine; I didn't see intent to lynch, I saw intent to pressure someone he found increasingly scummy and I wanted to see how those interactions played out between Kantrip/Tery, so I don't like RR shutting that down so quickly.

The next post from RR is wrt Swords asking for his read on Kantrip, in which he provides a case against Kantrip:

Initially when I read Adumb v Kantrip I thought TvT at first.

Kantrip's later votes and actions have made me reconsider it. It's when he put his vote on Tery I found it to be bleak, I don't know why he would attempt to do that. While I admit he had a reason later, His #290

What I got form this was

• Fluff content which is a null point on Tery
• Tery gave poor responses to Pressure

His #308 gave me a different look at his vote



So he voted him for pressure, but admits there is no intent to lynch. I would normally assume a vote is placed to express interest of lynching. It can be used for pressure, but the responses before don't give me the indication. If it was for pressure his vote should have been on earlier and not after he made a line of questioning.

Later I get to see a vote from him on another.



This post is what caused this,



That's not a scum slip, even harder to consider it one with the level of skill we are considering.

Mafia means the game in that sentence, in which he admits mafia is difficult for him at this point. Newb card was indeed dealt, something I don't wanna give him a free pass on, but based on the responses I got earlier, I think it is a far assessment.

Newb scum wants to hide and be out of sight as much as possible while remaining elusive with comments and stances. I'm not getting that impression from Sokr from his posts.

If anything this is telling me Kantrip is placing votes on for little to shady reasons.

Unvote
Vote: Kantrip

I'm seeing opportunistic play from him. And I think it is showing from his votes. Earlier with Adumb v Him, I viewed it as TvT, the only thing I dislike from him was his OMGUS vote on Adumb during it.

His later play is a different story.

I don't like this case.

The bolded bothered me for what might be my brain blowing things up at 4:30 am but him saying that Kantrip provided reasoning later, as in after voting Tery, isn't true; he gave his reasons right when he voted and one of the reasons that RR doesn't like is that Kantrip called Tery out on fluff posting which is null for Tery. However that point requires meta on Tery that idk or care if Kantrip has, I'd prefer that people pressure people for fluff content/lack of content then just write them off as meta, especially when its meta someone else is providing.

The point about Kantrip voting for pressure and not with the intent to lynch is stupid to me; if Kantrip got information out of his vote and pressure on Tery then he's at least trying to scumhunt.

The vote on Sokr for a "scum slip" I can see where he's coming from a bit, but I don't think it's strong and I don't like the case built around the Kantrip/Tery/Sokr reactions, especially in light of Kantrip's questioning of Sokr after this vote and eventually change in reads on him. Basically I see RR nitpicking Kantrip's scumhunting which seems disorganized but not disingenuous.

The only other stances he gives from there on out are saying that Adum doesn't match his scum meta from past experiences in his #455 and ranking his trust of Adum, Swords, and Swiss in his #456 (that's his order of trust from most to least trusted btw). However he doesn't actually tell us what that spectrum means :-/ as in, is Swiss leaning town while the other two are town, or is it town, null, scum? I'd like some explanation on what his reads for these players actually are.

So basically your question about RR turned into a case on him but after rereading I really don't like RR's lack of content, especially reads, and the fact that his interactions have been based around Tery: questioning Tery, giving advice to Tery, and then providing a case on someone after they attacked Tery. Right now I'm leaning scum on RR and I want to hear reads from him in his next post about some of the people he's never even mentioned, like Asdioh (they posted gifs back and forth to each other but that doesn't count), JTB, Soup, and Felipe.


@Sokr: What are your thoughts on the JTB wagon? If the deadline were today, would you support the JTB lynch and/or vote for him?

@Swiss: Thoughts on Swords and Adum?

 

[JTB]

Okay, I went over Swords' case and I am guilty of those forementioned points. From a time period where I didn't have much free time, I was focusing more on getting content out instead of the quality of it, so its =\

What I don't like is that one of your points is that I'm not giving stances on issues, but with the presentation of your case, you don't bother asking for my stances on any issues, giving me the impression that you are more concerned with making me look scummy rather than forcing me to make connections with other players or asking me questions about my shallow analysis'.

If Adum and Swiss were scum together, why would Swiss call for a cop of his scummate unprovoked so early on D1? He would literally be setting himself up to lose a scummate and there are enough experienced players in this game that know how good Swiss is that we'd be dumb to just write Swiss off then. Basically I don't think scumSwiss is likely with scumAdum and the way you came to that possibility seems shifty to me.

I never mentioned that it's likely that Swiss is scum with Adumb, I mentioned that upon an Adumb flip, I would look into Swiss scum. I'm not about to push a point like that prior to a flip on either of them, it was just an observation.

Swiss' jump on me sucks.

So you are asking me to play in a way that doesn't push my own scumreads but instead conform to what town wants me to do. Sorry, but that's not going to fly.

Rather, instead of telling me we shouldn't lynch swiss for fear of a mislynch, you should convince me that he would be a mislynch.

Asdioh, I still want you to answer this.


@Adumb

This isn't meta, this is based on his actual play, only really really confident and good scum would initiate something like that. Sokr isn't playing confident enough for that.

This is suggesting the only people who will call out Swiss are confident and good scum and new players (Kantrip, Sokr, maybe Tery) are less likely to do something that would incur an automatic scumtell on them.

I'll come back to the rest in the morning.