Brawl+ Official Codeset Gold Discussion

[CountKaiser]

Quite a conundrum, since this would be nice, but it would require massive rebalancing.

Jiang, you must also realize that many people are suffering from change fatigue, and to introduce such a drastic change when a gold set has already been promised has put the project in a bad spot.

A slight Fgrav change across the board might work, but even that could have dire consequences.

 

[Near]

Increasing the gravity would just make this game look even more like "trying to copy melee." We already have that as a rep among the melee players.

The game is just about finished and such a massive change would be wreckless, stupid, and frustrating.

Well actually, if I did want to make it a Melee v.2... anyone got some good codes for that?
I tried SSBM airdodging but it let me dodge infinitely... and I can't quite get the hitstun and such right.
If anyone has a codeset for Melee V2 that would be cool.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Go check out Project M.

 

[Near]

Thanks, looking forward to that.

Though if anyone knows how I can make the ssbm airdodge only doable once in the air, that would be nice. [I guess it conflicts with another code?]

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Could we maybe look into the ridiculous hit boxes on Up Bs? Most noticeably Ganon and Mario.

Neither character has a broken recovery by any means, but the way in which these boost their recoveries is the wrong way in my opinion.

Could their hitboxes be shrunk so they don't hit through the stage so well in exchange for a distance boost for Mario and a knockback boost for Ganon (Uppercut and Grab)?

Mario gets the option of UpBing back onto the stage a bit more often as opposed to the "wait for Mario to UpB and edgehog" method of gimping him now.

And Ganon gets a flashy, if risky combo finisher when his opponents get too high to simply uair again.

And neither of them activate noclip as soon as they UpB anymore.

 

[Roxas215]

I agree with mario. I dont think h im hitting through the stage is a problem(He needs it considering his recovery is god awful) But a little more range on his up b is what he needs. Even with the fludd recovery mario still probably has the worst recovery in the game. Hell ivy can recovery better then mario now.

 

[dori.]

I got the "latest" codeset (gct and pacs) from the brawlplus website...

Somebody should update that.

 

[Alphatron]

It was last updated on the 15th.

 

[Roxas215]

Yea i swore my friend downloaded the pac files from the website and DDD still had the quake hammer. Maybe someone needs to check that.

 

[Alphatron]

Run the autoupdater instead. The direct download to the pacs probably wasn't updated (even though the text file was!).

 

[leafgreen386]

You know... originally, I thought for sure that jiang's post about upping the grav in brawl+ was a troll post... but then he responded with a much more serious sounding reply afterward.

About all I can say about that... is that we've been over grav increases numerous times over the course of brawl+, but rarely have those talks resulted in any large-scale grav increases. A lot of chars got their dgrav converted to fgrav, but we never went beyond that. We've reached a point where changes like that are no longer feasible, so for better or for worse... we never will.

 

[Alphatron]

After balance changes are done, I'd like to see a major community vote on this sort of thing in the distant future. And I do mean distant. Although even if results show that people unanimously want increased gravity, that would mean a lot of work that I'm not sure you guys are willing to go through.

 

[Veril]

Large scale changes to the character physics in brawl+ will not be happening now or in the future. Captain Falcon, Marth, and possibly wolf are the only characters in need of physics adjustments.

Captain Falcon gets ***** by more throws than I am willing to change for a single character. His susceptibility to CGs is extreme, inescapable high % CGs are something that we've always worked to remove, and in order to reduce this his physics. Marth's physics were really just... completely unlike Marth, and he'll be more Marthlike in gold. As for Wolf, his physics adjustments having been massively overdone in terms of adding combo resistance to a character with a shine given that hitstun has been lowered...

Those characters are the only ones. When the new char-physics are confirmed I will post them publically.

All other character physics are stable and I have not seen any truly compelling argument that would justify the massively gamechanging effect a across the board physics change from 6.0. It is not happening.

Although even if results show that people unanimously want increased gravity, that would mean a lot of work that I'm not sure you guys are willing to go through.

It isn't a matter of work, its a matter of this necessitating a radically altered game from 6.0. Increased gravity means needing to change so many throws, up-tilts, juggling moves of all sorts really, jump values... OMG no.

 

[Bandit]

After balance changes are done, I'd like to see a major community vote on this sort of thing in the distant future. And I do mean distant. Although even if results show that people unanimously want increased gravity, that would mean a lot of work that I'm not sure you guys are willing to go through.

Play Project:M.

Seriously, upping the grav makes this a completely different game. Either like the game as it has been built or move to another game.

I know that is a hard line, but people really need to stop crying for these HUGE changes.

 

[Alphatron]

I wasn't exactly asking for anything to be done, as by distant I mean in the year 2012 or 2011. Personally, I think the physics are great. I guess I'm too worried about people jumping ship for P:M.

Anyway...how do people feel about DI? As in, how easy/hard is it for you to predict DI and how effective is it for escaping otherwise guarenteed combo strings?

 

[Veril]

Personally, I think the physics are great. I guess I'm too worried about people jumping ship for P:M.

Anyway...how do people feel about DI? As in, how easy/hard is it for you to predict DI and how effective is it for escaping otherwise guarenteed combo strings?

Well, an issue that has come up a few times has been that the change in hitstun alters the % at which a move will induce tumble. Moves that don't induce tumble can't be DIed or teched out of. Think DDD's d-throw in vBrawl "shudder". In some cases (in 6.0), notably Luigi's dair spike autocombos and ZSS's d-smash loop, this is a serious enough problem that it requires a slight (and I mean slight) base knockback adjustment.

 

[CountKaiser]

Hey, I just remembered that vietgeek made different pacs that made the camera more dynamic. Will that ever be implemented?

 

[JCaesar]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/jcaesar-brawl We're streaming.

 

[ValTroX]

So, is there a possibility to get the manual L cancel in B+(With Shanus code)? I mean, sometimes it just gets ridiculous that people get to attack so fast after an aerial with no skill requirement whatsoever.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

L cancelling takes skill? >.>

 

[5ive]

So, is there a possibility to get the manual L cancel in B+(With Shanus code)? I mean, sometimes it just gets ridiculous that people get to attack so fast after an aerial with no skill requirement whatsoever.

How many times have we discussed this already? <_<

 

[goodoldganon]

How many times have we discussed this already? <_<

Obviously not enough

 

[Shadic]

Ten billion no's.

 

[Alex 615]

So, is there a possibility to get the manual L cancel in B+(With Shanus code)? I mean, sometimes it just gets ridiculous that people get to attack so fast after an aerial with no skill requirement whatsoever.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=260812

 

[Evilagram]

Hey, uh, the text file on the Brawl+ site is that of the 5.0 GCT. Where's the 6.0 text?

 

[CountKaiser]

That txt file is up to date, I believe, despite the title.

 

[wowoduend]

Hey, I just remembered that vietgeek made different pacs that made the camera more dynamic. Will that ever be implemented?

im interested if this will be in B+. Kupo's camera was good but i think it could use a little tweaks(see flat zone 2 if necessary) and i wonder whats that random noise in kupo's camera. Sound like a rocket launching.

 

[Shadic]

That txt file is up to date, I believe, despite the title.

Why can't we get that fixed? It's been asked like, ten times now. And that's not hyperbole.

 

[Alphatron]

L-cancelling didn't take much skill at all. But that isn't the arguement for why anyone wants it to be included. The arguement is that it makes the player feel like they accomplished more because there is a possibility to fail and screw up a combo. There is no techical layer. It just makes you feel as though you're doing a lot more.

Personally, I've always hated the tech back since 64(and I mained Kirby/Jiggs). But I've wanted Magus cancelling to be in since forever, so I'll shut up about it.

Well, an issue that has come up a few times has been that the change in hitstun alters the % at which a move will induce tumble. Moves that don't induce tumble can't be DIed or teched out of. Think DDD's d-throw in vBrawl "shudder". In some cases (in 6.0), notably Luigi's dair spike autocombos and ZSS's d-smash loop, this is a serious enough problem that it requires a slight (and I mean slight) base knockback adjustment.

Yeah, maybe I'm just being silly. I didn't know about Luigi but found out about the ZSS thing a while back. I didn't go through any extra testing so I assumed it was known already.

How are the Captain Falcon physics changes going? And yes, are the camera changes going to be included? Or any other extras(by extras I mean non major changes, excluding the dead frame removal code).

 

[wowoduend]

L Canceling is just pressing more buttons.......and probably more chances of breaking your own controller lol

 

[GPDP]

Eh, keep L-Canceling out of Brawl+. It's done just fine without it all this time, and if you really want it, Project M will have it.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Due to the Auto-l cancel code, I like the benefits of L-canceling...but like GPDP said, it's doing fine without it too. :3

 

[Isatis]

I'll try to update a lot of the files tonight. TXT files need to be renamed, fighter.zip needs to be updated, downloads section needs to be more or less rewritten to be clearer, updatifier needs a new Gecko OS to be put in.

As for the L-Canceling discussion, it's not going to happen in Brawl+ regardless. The Cape said it best...all L-Canceling does is separate the current players from the new players.

 

[The W]

Manual L-canceling is an argument that keeps rearing its ugly head. As has been discussed, It really provided nothing more than a needless technical barrier.

So, are there any consolidated changes confirmed for gold release that you can tell us about?

 

[Plum]

Check out Veril's thread for some of what's been discussed.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=261493

 

[Ridley69]

The Brawl+ Codeset (any version) makes my game freezing when I press L+R+A+START during a match to quit. (Can't see the result screen, it freezes juste before)

And it freezes sometimes just before the CSS appeared (On the main menu, when I go to Brawl, then it freezes.)

Do you know wich code makes the game freezing?

 

[ValTroX]

I've never seen the discussion about manual l-cancel honestly, sorry that you guys discussed it b4, but all I needed was a simple yes/no. It's fine if it's off, and I wasn't complaining, just recommendation since the way I see it, it does take some skill since you can screw up timing.

 

[Bandit]

Just wanted to let the people know that my posts concerning Zelda+ were intended to cause a stir and to get attention. My complaints were real, and I am not apologetic for them, but the BR had ignored or dismissed my opinion when I tried to go through the proper channels and going through the public was the only option left.

I wanted the backroom to hear from me and Riot, and some of the other Zeldas who have dealt with the constant nerfing of Usmash and where it stood compared to vBrawl.

Now that the backroom has our thoughts and comments and giving it the time of day, I cannot ask for more. If the backroom decides to once again nerf Zelda's Usmash, then I can say that me and the other Zeldas went down swinging.

I will not be starting another "war" if it doesn't go our way.

 

[Veril]

Lol at the upsmash being ignored. I had already setup a thread for discussing it before your outburst. That you didn't get an immediate response to your PM reflects that I was still evaluating fixes for the move (and have been busy with class and a family issue that I'd rather not discuss). You aren't trying to avoid a nerf so much as get 5.0 up-smash back. Pretending otherwise is absurd. None of your points are anywhere near as well substantiated as what I've heard from Cape (in addition to comments from VaNz in the wbr).

The most insane thing you've claimed is to have been ignored. The idea of replacing inv. with HA was dropped and I made a thread specifically for discussion of the move (yes, well before Bio moved the Zelda+ thread).

Bandit, talk to me on AIM later. I'll be on at around 9pm.

 

[Bandit]

I'll be on. I'd love to hear what Cape has been saying.

Also, the 5.0 stance is because nothing about the move has been touched other than the range since 5.0. It still has the same knockback, same speed, same trajectory.

I'd take a compromising stance, but Cape has made it very clear he was in no way willing to compromise.

Like I said, I'll be on aim "leppo19" if you are around. I'll discard the PM I was going to send you.