Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[PKNintendo]

I'm sorry to have to bring this up, but after seeing stingers' post, I'd just like to say that Brawl+ is for fixing Brawl to make it more competitive.

SA. It, coupled with the other codes we have, will let you create a completely different game. We could make something that plays like exact Melee, or 64. We could completely change the characters in Brawl to our liking. However, this is BRAWL+.

What I am saying is that I disagree with changing the movesets of Brawl's characters; it is what makes them that character, with that way of play. It is a fundamental.

There will no doubt be a huge argument between those who want their own moves for their character, and those who want to stay the course. I am on the latter side, please do not use SA (excessively, you know what I mean) to modify Brawl+ beyond what it was meant to be.

I agree with this. If we go to far and tamper with the characters, I don't think we could go back.

 

[Dai Tian]

I agree with this. If we go to far and tamper with the characters, I don't think we could go back.

I doubt there's really going to be any issue like this in the future. Thus far I haven't seen one WBR member express any serious interest in changing any move into something it's not.

 

[PKNintendo]

I doubt there's really going to be any issue like this in the future. Thus far I haven't seen one WBR member express any serious interest in changing any move into something it's not.

Yeah I just wanted to sound ominous and go with the flow.
I mean WBR isn't going to eve make drastic changes without our opinion.

 

[CloneHat]

The WBR is full of experienced, long-time Brawl Plussers. As the project expands, one side effect is some new(b) people play the game without thinking much about the goal, but around the aspect that the characters in the game can be buffed/changed.

With SA, I'm just afraid people will go overboard, and we'll be flooded with request to change "useless moves" and such. There's always a possibility mains of a certain character will jump on the bandwagon (who wouldn't want a nice buff?) and other members of the Workshop will be eventually unable to argue their way out of such situations.

I guess I sound a bit paranoid, but better safe than sorry.

 

[Demacrez]

The WBR is full of experienced, long-time Brawl Plussers. As the project expands, one side effect is some new(b) people play the game without thinking much about the goal, but around the aspect that the characters in the game can be buffed/changed.

With SA, I'm just afraid people will go overboard, and we'll be flooded with request to change "useless moves" and such. There's always a possibility mains of a certain character will jump on the bandwagon (who wouldn't want a nice buff?) and other members of the Workshop will be eventually unable to argue their way out of such situations.

I guess I sound a bit paranoid, but better safe than sorry.

Toon Link gets Hurrican Spin from Wind Waker!!! Similar to Luigi's spin attack.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

so SA would only be used for very minor changes
but "new characters" that may be added to B+ might have changed moves possibly :|
but i see a world of glitches for that

 

[Shell]

People, stop worrying. The main use we have for Plan SA is to do things we're already doing more elegantly, make minor uses of the weight and air speed modifiers, and perhaps a few small changes to a couple moves if everyone thinks they're necessary. No one's getting the Phoenix Mario treatment.

We get death-threats every time we even test out a change more significant than a KB modification. We try not to do that more than necessary.

It's gone b k.

 

[PKNintendo]

Hehe.

Death threats indeed.

 

[Yingyay]

The title for this topic should include "Ask for a move change and you'll be banned" bet you after the first 60 people get banned everything will be in order.

 

[cAm8ooo]

My opinion on useless moves:

Just about every character in any fighting game (with measurable depth) will have moves that are out shadowed by another move in their arsenal. This does not mean that these moves are "useless" but some moves are often so situational that often times they might not be used for a consecutive 10 or 20 games (if not more). On rarer occasions you will have a move that offers nothing valuable and is completely outclassed by another move in EVERY situation and therefore is what we call useless.

If one can prove that a certain move is completely useless in every given situation then one could argue that the move should be changed.

My only argument against this is that "useless" moves, while not adding anything to a characters depth, is also not taking away anything either because a character always has some option to deal with the occasion by using another move. A character can have 1-2 very situational moves while also having a completely useless move and still be able to function beautifully and be a force to be reckoned with (think Marth like).

One of the main goals of Brawl+ is to provide a very balanced game. When giving a move valuable aspects you must be careful not to overpower said move while at the same time try to balance it out as a good option.

There is no reason to try to change a lot of characters and provide everyone with completely "useful" moves because it fringes on the balance that the WBR (and community) has tried so hard to achieve. If a character is in need of a change to become more balanced then there is no problem with adding value to a once useless move if that is the best option of making that character viable. But to change characters that are already balanced or good just to give the character a useful move is hurting the balance of said character.

So in conclusion: A balanced character with a useless move is not hurting the balance of the game and there is no reason to risk balance and waste time just to provide more options for a character that already has all the options he/she needed in the first place. There can be exceptions and times where there is enough support to change a "useless" move, but these should be few and far between.

 

[exfatal]

add a wind effect (that drags in like ganons uptilt) to TL Bup and i'll be happy lol

 

[Alphatron]

We all have faith in the WBR members. We won't be seeing anything like shadow queen Peach anytime soon in brawl+.

 

[leafgreen386]

We all have faith in the WBR members. We won't be seeing anything like shadow queen Peach anytime soon in brawl+.

At least not officially. I'm sure you'll see people making plenty of different chars as their own little projects.

 

[CountKaiser]

Ya'll will put in mewtwo. Right? >.>

 

[Deleted member]

give us a working model of mewtwo and you might get him in.

 

[Dai Tian]

As sad as it is to say it, I think Mewtwo will remain on the shelf until importing models into Brawl becomes a reality. There's Mewtwo and then there's 'as close to Mewtwo as we can get'.

 

[proteininja]

Ya'll will put in mewtwo. Right? >.>

troll of the century

 

[CountKaiser]

troll of the century

What? I'm just trying to be funny.

 

[Demacrez]

Place Iron Man in and it will be golden. :3

 

[PKNintendo]

Hey guys, any word on the new nightly set? Or are we on the down low here?

 

[shanus]

there isnt that much action going on.

Mainly taking preparations for things like SA, and new engines.

 

[StarcraftLedZeppelin]

I can't use the 7-21 nightly set, it interrupts my stage textures. I ended up using 7-20.

 

[PKNintendo]

there isnt that much action going on.

Mainly taking preparations for things like SA, and new engines.

Aha, so that means with the new engine, we could add things that were removed due to space!!!

Spoiler

You know me to well and know what I want added.

 

[Roxas215]

We all have faith in the WBR members. We won't be seeing anything like shadow queen Peach anytime soon in brawl+.

Shadow queen peach would be awesome!!!

I can't use the 7-21 nightly set, it interrupts my stage textures. I ended up using 7-20.

I have no problems using 7/21 with my char textures,stage textures,csps,and custom music.

Then again im using usb loader.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

I can't use the 7-21 nightly set, it interrupts my stage textures. I ended up using 7-20.

it works for me, and im just using the sd card deal

 

[GHNeko]

7-21 is really annoying me. 7-20 too. I keep getting freezes whenever I go to the roster select from main menu or result screen >:

 

[Wavedash Master]

Model importing + SA + Gecko codes + Clone Engine = Mewtwo

Am I right?

 

[FrozenHobo]

Model importing + SA + Gecko codes + Clone Engine = Mewtwo

Am I right?

....not exactly... no. you would never get him back without extensive hacking.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Model importing + SA + Gecko codes + Clone Engine = Mewtwo

Am I right?

somewhat. not completely though.

and that belongs in another thread.

 

[Roxas215]

Mewtwo is never going to happen. At least not a mewtwo that would do him justice.

 

[Shell]

Never's a strong word. I think you'd be surprised by the dedication of our community. It really depends on the difficulty of modifying character Motion files -- which is probably pretty **** hard, but not impossible.

 

[Wavedash Master]

....not exactly... no. you would never get him back without extensive hacking.

Explain why then. We can trade moves that look similar to Mewtwo's original moveset in Melee using SA (For example, ZSS's downsmash is very similar to Mewtwo's downsmash). Once model importing is possible, we'll be able to get the full look of Mewtwo. The hitbox mod and frame speed mod could be further used to adjust his moves. Come on, think about this idea for a little bit first before shutting it down.

 

[Melomaniacal]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if in the future (assuming the modders stay dedicated) we can bring in custom models and the whole shabang.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Explain why then. We can trade moves that look similar to Mewtwo's original moveset in Melee using SA (For example, ZSS's downsmash is very similar to Mewtwo's downsmash). Once model importing is possible, we'll be able to get the full look of Mewtwo. The hitbox mod and frame speed mod could be further used to adjust his moves. Come on, think about this idea for a little bit first before shutting it down.

how would you do confusion and disable? the rest of the hack (motion edits) would be hella hard. doubt anyone would be dedicated enough to go all the way.

 

[Wavedash Master]

how would you do confusion and disable? the rest of the hack (motion edits) would be hella hard. doubt anyone would be dedicated enough to go all the way.

I imagine SA is going to be used for a lot of this. We have yet to know the full capabilities of the project (I mean, it only came out for a couple of days, and the utility itself hasn't even been released). I bet you we could get this to work. Also, could you stop doing the old "This isn't going to work, no one is going to do it, blah blah blah", and instead help me out in thinking on how this would work? If you're not going to help out, don't post please. Hacking is pretty limitless, and I aspect this to have enough dedicated people to get this to work, including myself.

 

[CountKaiser]

Well, disable is the deku nut effect. You could have a hitbox that shoots out that inflicts the shieldbreak/deku nut effect.

Confusion would be a bit harder, though, since it flips the opponent, then turns them around.

 

[timothyung]

how would you do confusion and disable? the rest of the hack (motion edits) would be hella hard. doubt anyone would be dedicated enough to go all the way.

Hitbox-wise, you can make that when the hitbox hits, it makes the opponent faint. Like Wario Man's non-charged downB. But I don't think we can make it work only when facing the opponent, but that's close. For confusion, use ZSS's blaster effect to simulate it.

Oh and I have an idea. A character actually have 6 taunt spaces, 3 taunts facing each direction. Make one of the directions their victory pose! Like when facing to the left, they do their taunts, but when they face to the right, they do their victory poses. Of course, their are some exceptions on Captain Falcon (down taunt being different according to directions, just don't add in the victory pose that looks like his up taunt), Snake(Box attack, though you can remove, say, side taunt), and Luigi(down taunt attacks, just don't add in the victory pose which looks like his side taunt)

 

[FrozenHobo]

do we have a move that does an effect similar to confusion when it forces a midair tumble? if you're expecting it to be done even... within a year... then you're probably going to be disappointed. as far as disable, you would need a short range moving hitbox that forces a stun animation, but only if the two characters are facing each other (which may or may not be a variable in brawl). on top of that you need to actually edit the animations to do all of this stuff, which in itself will be harder than making the edited model. what you're probably going to come up with is a rickety glitchfest wannabe mewtwo that won't meet half the communities expectations.


there? was i friendly enough? god forbid somebody have a negative comment on your idea! if someone doesn't agree with you then just tell them to gtfo, if that it?

 

[Wavedash Master]

was i friendly enough?

Yes. Two posts above you have shown fairly good ideas on the matter. It's not going to be a perfect replica of Mewtwo in Melee, but close enough so he's enjoyable for the character he is. (Sigh, I might need to make a thread about Mewtwo so this thread doesn't get so much spam).

 

[Learn2Luigi]

do we have a move that does an effect similar to confusion when it forces a midair tumble? if you're expecting it to be done even... within a year... then you're probably going to be disappointed. as far as disable, you would need a short range moving hitbox that forces a stun animation, but only if the two characters are facing each other (which may or may not be a variable in brawl). on top of that you need to actually edit the animations to do all of this stuff, which in itself will be harder than making the edited model. what you're probably going to come up with is a rickety glitchfest wannabe mewtwo that won't meet half the communities expectations.


there? was i friendly enough? god forbid somebody have a negative comment on your idea! if someone doesn't agree with you then just tell them to gtfo, if that it?

You seemed to be civil enough until the last paragraph.
He is probably aware of how unlikely it is, but much like way back when...
In the days of yore when everyone wanted their particular roster in brawl...
He is hoping, and through this hope he tries to find ways to bring this wondrous circumstance closer to reality.

Hostility towards his posts on the matter is not required.
Despite it being in entirely the wrong thread.