Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[PKNintendo]

75m. Only it still has a chance to actually be 75m instead of wfr.

And Ness dtilt was never OP. But I want a solid amount of time to pass so we can see how this stuff fits him before we talk about him anymore. Getting your PK Thunder absorbed by a nikita missle isn't fun though.

Without the stale moves, the move did ridiculous damage.
Although I only used it against CPUs, I could rack up 40% in a matter of secs.

And GHNeko. Case and Point Luigi being
completely revamped.

 

[GHNeko]

And GHNeko. Case and Point Luigi being
completely revamped.

Because Luigi mains totally came together and did what I just talked about.

But hey, at least the changes were by a luigi main.

 

[Cero]

75m. Only it still has a chance to actually be 75m instead of wfr.

Oh, It actually worked this time. Thanks. I guess the last time it didn't work was just a fluke.

And, I think there's a chance of the random stage going to 75m regardless if 75m's toggled or not.

 

[_clinton]

1. PK flash is supposed to be an edge guard move. It's not to be used to fake people on the ground. (Although it makes a cheap parlor trick)

The magnet push is another option.
Another option>Nothing

Also, it can ruin some recoveries (like Falco's) and upon contact with Ness sometimes flies a good distance.

2. Utilt seems fine to me. Juggles pretty **** good.

3. Zap Fairing is better than zap jumping.

IMO Ness is fine the way he is. Any more buffs or nerfs would could cause a huge debate.

1. I never said PK Flash had much of a use for when people where on the ground...I said it made a good mind game option when they were recovering in vBrawl...
Here is a little bit of info about PK Flash if you don't think it was a good way to scare people when they were recovering
PK Flash had the longest start up time but the fastest cool down time out of Ness' special moves...

Here are the stats for cool down time plus when the move can 1st hit
PK Flash...26 frames (The blast can 1st go off at frames 43-147 for a quick flash to full flash)
PK Fire...35 frames (The bolt 1st appears on frame 21...but Ness can't move until 56)
PSI Magnet...36 frames total for everything (If you don't absorb something on frame 10 you are out for that long...the wind appears on frame 31 though...and then you only have 15 frames of cool down time after that)
PK Thunder...54 frames (It 1st hits on 19 and if it does...Ness is moving again on 73...granted this one varies the most because Ness' fall animation can screw with it the most)

And here is where I got the info...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=207559

Looking at that info...I don't know what the problem would be with the speed up cool down option at least...it was already Ness' fastest special for cool down time...

(Of course I'll admit that with the other moves receiving some sort of speed buff in some way I don't see why Ness' Flash shouldn't have one either...so I'll admit that there is that side to me with this view)

2. My point with Utilt is that they keep screwing it up for how it works w/o fixing what was wrong with it (range). It didn't really need a major speed buff IMO...and now they took out the low % Utilt to Pivot grab move...which was pretty much the only thing that was truly good about it...

3. I know that a Rising Fair is better than the Zap Jump option...that is what I've been saying for a while...my point is that they took away the spacing tricks aerial PK Fire had even more...Now you can't use PK Fire 2x in the air and land with 0 landing Lag, and you can't even throw it out in as many places as before because of how far Ness moves as well...oh and don't even have me start on what I don't like about that slight horizontal movement range buff they gave to a rising air...

Oh and I can't see why restoring the unlimited PKT1 is a bad thing...Ness' movement is sort of slow on the ground in all of the games and his air speed is sort of average as well normally, and the air speed buffs only did so much. It is pretty easy for people to run away from you when you are trying to punish them...the unlimited PKT1 at least prevented that to a point...

Oh and the bat buff is kind of worthless as well...the move doesn't kill at a low enough % for how much of an issue it is to bring it out on someone's skull...oh and as for Ness' Dtilt...CPUs are stupid...the moves use was very limited...and the only way you would have 40% or so on you is if you screwed up in that because the simple fact that almost anyone's jab would stop it says something...at least I don't really have any issue with the Dsmash buff now...so it is nice that they at least fixed that...

Oh and really still...why can't Samus use two missiles in a short hop and have 0 landing lag? She could do that in vBrawl for one...

 

[[TSON]]

Without the stale moves, the move did ridiculous damage.
Although I only used it against CPUs, I could rack up 40% in a matter of secs.

CPUs don't DI evar. (/exaggeration)

And

As soon as you stop dtilting, you're going to get a fsmash or ftilt to the face (unless you're edgeguarding).

 

[MK26]

75m's slot on the random stage switch was switched with Wifi Waiting Room, right?

Did that change since the last build? Because, now it just sends me to 75m.

Is it still possible to put Wifi Waiting Room in the randoms?

I know that. I'm talking about on the random stage switch. Which stage do I choose to have Wifi Waiting Room as a random?

I'm just going to assume that having Wifi Waiting Room as a random is impossible in this build...

Also, I noticed that when I press random on the stage select screen, I sometimes get sent to 75m... And, I'm 100% sure I have 75m toggled off in the random stage switch. Is this a glitch with the custom stage select screen?

Oh, It actually worked this time. Thanks. I guess the last time it didn't work was just a fluke.

And, I think there's a chance of the random stage going to 75m regardless if 75m's toggled or not.

do you have the latest SSS? My SSS? The one with 23 stages on the first page and 19 on the second? If so, there is absolutely no chance of selecting 75m on random. It's been completely removed from the random select. Toggling 75m on at the random select screen toggles WWR on in-game. I heard the old SSS had a bug, a possibility of having 75m on. But the new one? No.

 

[proteininja]

do you have the latest SSS? My SSS? The one with 23 stages on the first page and 19 on the second? If so, there is absolutely no chance of selecting 75m on random. It's been completely removed from the random select. Toggling 75m on at the random select screen toggles WWR on in-game. I heard the old SSS had a bug, a possibility of having 75m on. But the new one? No.

You a lie.

 

[Cero]

do you have the latest SSS? My SSS? The one with 23 stages on the first page and 19 on the second? If so, there is absolutely no chance of selecting 75m on random. It's been completely removed from the random select. Toggling 75m on at the random select screen toggles WWR on in-game. I heard the old SSS had a bug, a possibility of having 75m on. But the new one? No.

Yep. 23 on the first page and 19 on the second. I have the latest 7/21 build, unchanged.
Yes, toggling 75m in the random select gets me WWR. But, I've tested and even if I don't have 75m toggled, there's still a chance of getting 75m on random. In fact, I still get 75m every once and a while.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Something new to discuss that I want to get into the build asap are improved DownB transform mechanics. Zelda/Sheik, and PKMT to be precise. The random load times make those difficult to work with, even if you do get a large opening to switch.

For Zelda/Sheik, I currently have the initial transform length set to 0.45x speed. You can interrupt them out of the transform for nearly this whole animation. The appearance of the other character though, is instant. This way, random load times are not a factor in the punishability of the move for the most part, which is silly as it works now. Instead of requiring a small opening to get the Transform off but likely eating a hit for it after the load time ends, if you don't have a large opening to pull off the switch, you just won't be able to switch.

PKMT switching mechanics are entirely different though and cannot be addressed in this way. Assuming Pokemon stamina is still in play or not it a reliable switching mechanic that doesn't take place off the death platform might not even be needed.

 

[GHNeko]

This is where something troubles me. Brawl being played off hard drives.

A combination of a transform speed up and Brawl off a hard drive might give an unintentional buff/advantage to characters that can switch. Samus/Zamus, Zelda/Shiek, and PT.

As it stands, transformation times of a hard drive are noticeably faster.

This kinda worries me. :V

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Pokemon Trainer has a limit to how fast they can switch. The PKMT himself has animations that he must complete with the Poke Balls before the next Pokemon is even allowed to come out, and that's assuming they're fully loaded by that time.

As for Zelda/Sheik, it's not really a faster transform, but moving the vulnerable frames to one spot, while ignoring the load times completely as to how you can punish the move. Read again.

 

[GHNeko]

PT transforms are indeed faster on a Hard drive. I can personally vouch for that, despite the limit. :V

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

PT transforms are indeed faster on a Hard drive. I can personally vouch for that, despite the limit. :V

I definitely agree, its very noticeable.. can't explain it that well though

 

[timothyung]

But even if you slow it down, there are times when the loading time suddenly gets very long. Although it is not likely to happen, it's still a potential problem. A code to keep the characters loaded is certainly a better way, but for now, that seems to be a decent solution.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

I've managed to force loading of the next Pokemon occur about 35-ish frames sooner than usual, making the DownB pokemon switch as fast as it gets. It's still slow. :/

I'm also not very worried about potential tactical uses of Samus-ZSS switches. More power to them if they finally decide that Samus isn't cutting it midway through the match.

 

[-Axle-]

i I got error: too many lines 1914 found, *forgot how many* allotted

 

[FrozenHobo]

i I got error: too many lines 1914 found, *forgot how many* allotted

you need the gamconfix.txt

 

[-Axle-]

olol

I named the file gameconfig by accident

 

[FrozenHobo]

oh, no its supposed to be gomeconfig. my bad. make sure you're using the latest gecko

 

[-Axle-]

I'll assume u mean gameconfig

and 1.91 is the latest right? it still doesn't work =/

 

[FrozenHobo]

yes on both counts.

 

[grim mouser]

Could someone tell me how to modify Jiggly's Rest so the effect is fire again? I tried and ended up changing the damage to 31. O.o

 

[leafgreen386]

Could someone tell me how to modify Jiggly's Rest so the effect is fire again? I tried and ended up changing the damage to 31. O.o

Look in the code agenda thread for how to change hitbox mods.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

The damage is 31, and always was 31 when the effect was fire.

 

[grim mouser]

Huh. I guess I don't pay attention to the percent counter. =P

I checked on brawlplus.net, which says it's 25%. It must be outdated?

-Rest BKB to 118 from 100, Dmg Increased to 25, KBG to 50, 45 angle, fire

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Yeah, I guess that's wrong. It always did 31 damage for me. O_o

 

[CountKaiser]

Dude, what's wrong with you?

Darkness rest is awesome.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Yeah, what do you have against darkness rest? :D


Although shouldn't it say in the changelist somewhere that rest is now dark?

 

[grim mouser]

I leave darkness to Ganondorf.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

But Jiggz and Ganondorf are epic partners in crime!!!1

 

[grim mouser]

Not until Jiggly gets her crown back. D=

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Has anyone else noticed that the grounded Murder Choke is an instakill on the edge? The character he hits it with goes into their standing animation and is locked in it until they hit the bottom blastline.

Haven't updated to the newest Nightly yet though. Sorry if it's been brought up before.

 

[Revven]

We know, the newest nightly went back to the techable choke because it's an ugly fix for it.

 

[proteininja]

So how is the new engine coming?

 

[GHNeko]

Plan Zero is what we're waiting for really.

 

[proteininja]

Is that the new "engine" you've been talking about? Does phantom wings still write codes for the wbr?

 

[Yingyay]

Plan Zero is gonna rock. We can finally have a perfec version of brawl.
Falcon's new fsmash is gonna be the knee

 

[proteininja]

Plan Zero is gonna rock. We can finally have a perfec version of brawl.
Falcon's new fsmash is gonna be the knee

It is still in capable of editing projectiles. Which sucks.

 

[Revven]

Is that the new "engine" you've been talking about?

No, it isn't. Almas was working on that stuff, it was to make the processing less troublesome for the Wii and to fix bugs like the idle animations and such.

 

[proteininja]

No, it isn't. Almas was working on that stuff, it was to make the processing less troublesome for the Wii and to fix bugs like the idle animations and such.

almas was working on it?