Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[Revven]

almas was working on it?

He wasn't working on Plan Zero, he was working on the new engine stuff...

 

[Esperanto]

My friends and I have found a few issues with the July 21st version of the 4.2 nightly build. Sorry if these have already been mentioned.

The biggest one being that Link occasionally stops moving completely (not sure of the cause yet) for anywhere between a half second to 2 seconds. Happens ~3-5 times during a standard 4 stock 8 minute match.

My second problem is with Link's Up + B. If I'm somewhat near the edge and I'm hit by a standing Up + B from Link, I get sent downwards at an awkward angle and most of the time I can't make it back. It's easily capable of killing at ~ 35%. A little bit overkill, IMO.

EDIT: The Up+B is completely uncharged as well.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

yeah it's called a semispike. don't get hit.

Also, YOU MUST RECOVER

 

[stingers]

ness needs some buffs. he sucks ****.

 

[Revven]

My friends and I have found a few issues with the July 21st version of the 4.2 nightly build. Sorry if these have already been mentioned.

The biggest one being that Link occasionally stops moving completely (not sure of the cause yet) for anywhere between a half second to 2 seconds. Happens ~3-5 times during a standard 4 stock 8 minute match.

My second problem is with Link's Up + B. If I'm somewhat near the edge and I'm hit by a standing Up + B from Link, I get sent downwards at an awkward angle and most of the time I can't make it back. It's easily capable of killing at ~ 35%. A little bit overkill, IMO.

EDIT: The Up+B is completely uncharged as well.

Both are known and the second one is intentional, it was made to semispike and isn't a bug.

 

[KOkingpin]

i havent been really keeping up with the posts on the nightly build lately but i do have some videos posted on youtube for Brawl+ and the Nightly build. Im also hosting the first brawl+ tourney in TN. and im gonna have videos taken for every match. and I will be posting them on youtube as well. Here is my youtube channel if you guys wanna check stuff out.

http://www.youtube.com/user/KOkingpinBrawlPlus

 

[thesage]

ness needs some buffs. he sucks ****.

Lolololololololol

NC is amazing.

 

[Hyrus]

Plan Zero is what we're waiting for really.

Plan Zero is gonna rock. We can finally have a perfec version of brawl.
Falcon's new fsmash is gonna be the knee

For just how long are people going to work on Brawl+? We're not looking at a full time, employed studio here. People aren't always going to have free time to work on the game and the longer development goes, the more likely something's going to get shutdown half way done. I think realistic goals and expectations should be realized. The sooner B+ gets finalized, the more assured its success will be.

Frankly, i'd rather not see the game transform into a cluster of glitchy looking animations with partical effects slathered all over the screen.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

ness needs some buffs. he sucks ****.

no. its jsut that you just suck **** with him

 

[Plum]

Frankly, i'd rather not see the game transform into a cluster of glitchy looking animations with partical effects slathered all over the screen.

That isn't all Project SA can do ya know.

Other applications such as adjusting invincibility frames will become possible with Project SA, and this is what the WBR wants the program for.
Frankly I don't think the WBR would EVER go as far as to actually change an attack of a character.

The functions of SA that you are talking about (changing attack scripts, linking them together to form new animations altogether and etc.) will be reserved for those of us who simply want to have some fun messing with the full potential of hacking Brawl, as well as perfecting custom characters to have fun with (such as giving Roy's neutral B his Fsmash animation and an explosion effect).

 

[stingers]

nope. i was easily the top ness player at herb2 and i am confident he sucks ****

you all know thunderhorse, that hella good falco player. and jcaeser, that dude is in the backroom. ask them how bad ness is

 

[Blank Mauser]

Plan Zero has a lot of potential. Being able to directly edit character scripts just adds a lots of new possibilities. At the same time, we will have to maintain professional quality with all of our changes seeing as how Brawl+ is aiming to be competitively viable. I don't think anyone has to worry about shoddy move changes and unfitting graphics.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

That isn't all Project SA can do ya know.

Other applications such as adjusting invincibility frames will become possible with Project SA, and this is what the WBR wants the program for.
Frankly I don't think the WBR would EVER go as far as to actually change an attack of a character.

The functions of SA that you are talking about (changing attack scripts, linking them together to form new animations altogether and etc.) will be reserved for those of us who simply want to have some fun messing with the full potential of hacking Brawl, as well as perfecting custom characters to have fun with (such as giving Roy's neutral B his Fsmash animation and an explosion effect).

Exactly.

And...I was thinking... to have Roy's b-move proper as it was in melee, we could edit Marth's neutral B to have the same animation as his fsmash, add an explosion at the end of it (if possible) edit the hitbox and damage of it, and wala! We have a Melee-esqe shield breaker.

Any thoughts on my idea? Ill be trying it out immediately, when Project SA (the beta version) is released.

 

[stingers]

i think that changing some moves around would be a good thing...

i mean right now, we have dumb **** laying around like mario's dtilt and jiggs ftilt that will never be used by anyone ever. if the goal of a balanced game is for every character to be viable with a full arsenal of attacks, why shouldn't some things be changed around?

 

[Deleted member]

we can use plan SA to do most of the current (and somewhat lenghty) codes we have now.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

maybe SA can get rid of the lone pokemon's down-b and maybe make a new move for them? xD
so they can actually have a Down-B

 

[SymphonicSage12]

GOD MCH STOP THAT. It's already been discussed, and it CANT HAPPEN. Their down b really belongs to pokemon trainer, so editing the down b of a lone pokemon's down b would also edit PT's, making it so if you use PT you can't switch.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

And...I was thinking... to have Roy's b-move proper as it was in melee, we could edit Marth's neutral B to have the same animation as his fsmash, add an explosion at the end of it (if possible) edit the hitbox and damage of it, and wala! We have a Melee-esqe shield breaker.

Any thoughts on my idea? Ill be trying it out immediately, when Project SA (the beta version) is released.

quoted. that is something that I think will help with various things that the wbr would want to implement with Roy.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

GOD MCH STOP THAT. It's already been discussed, and it CANT HAPPEN. Their down b really belongs to pokemon trainer, so editing the down b of a lone pokemon's down b would also edit PT's, making it so if you use PT you can't switch.

well excuuuuuuuuuUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuuuuUUuusee me princess
i only read the past 2 pages (counting this one)

 

[SymphonicSage12]

you are excuuuuuused, princess. :D

 

[leafgreen386]

GOD MCH STOP THAT. It's already been discussed, and it CANT HAPPEN. Their down b really belongs to pokemon trainer, so editing the down b of a lone pokemon's down b would also edit PT's, making it so if you use PT you can't switch.

Well... actually, you may be able to set a conditional such that if the trainer isn't there, it performs some assigned attack, and if the trainer is there, it does not, and instead performs the switch. Even if it can't be applied to downB, in a worst case scenario you could probably use that same conditional to apply it to a taunt, so it's not completely out of the question to be able to give independent pokemon an additional trick. I can't say whether we would actually do that or not, though. PT is a very tricky character to deal with.

 

[Roxas215]

i think that changing some moves around would be a good thing...

i mean right now, we have dumb **** laying around like mario's dtilt and jiggs ftilt that will never be used by anyone ever. if the goal of a balanced game is for every character to be viable with a full arsenal of attacks, why shouldn't some things be changed around?

Cause not every single attack needs to be omfggood. Seriously chars are suppose to have strengths AND FLAWS.

And no the pokemon don't deserve their own down b.

 

[stingers]

philly are you joking or an idiot?

every move should be useful, why the hell would you give a character a move that serves no purpose

 

[Plum]

Well... actually, you may be able to set a conditional such that if the trainer isn't there, it performs some assigned attack, and if the trainer is there, it does not, and instead performs the switch. Even if it can't be applied to downB, in a worst case scenario you could probably use that same conditional to apply it to a taunt, so it's not completely out of the question to be able to give independent pokemon an additional trick. I can't say whether we would actually do that or not, though. PT is a very tricky character to deal with.

My issue with that is how it gives even more reason for people to screw over PT and play individual Pogeys.

If anything PT is the one who needs more tricks up his sleeves; the matchup resistance he has also forces him into his bad matchups at least once during a standard 4 stock match (potentially twice) so it's hard to give him that same title as Zelda/Sheik. And assuming Ryoko is right, nothing can be done about their switch mechanics where as Zelda/Sheik can have a lagless transformation ending. That even further lessens matchup resistance on their part by making transforming to hopefully get past a bad matchup daunting and highly punishable, especially in B+.

I would love to see something encouraging the effort of learning 3 characters by making them the ones who stand out from the more popular (and potentially better choice because you aren't forced into bad matchups each match) wild Pogeys instead of vise versa.

 

[Roxas215]

philly are you joking or an idiot?

every move should be useful, why the hell would you give a character a move that serves no purpose

Every move have a purpose. It's how u use them. Buffing moves just cause someone say(this move sucks) is stupid and is making the game too easy to play. Even when u do buff a move if that move never fit with the chars playstyle it won't matter. Look at zss. They buffed her fsmash. However zss playstyle is that of aerial ko char. Even with the buff i never used her fsmash. It was a unneeded buff that even the zss mains said isn't worth it. But because random people said(her fsmash sucks. Lets fix it) It happened.(I know she had a trade off but the point is her fsmash was fine as is)

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

you are excuuuuuused, princess. :D

thank youuuuuuu~
so to what extent is the BR going to use SA

 

[weinzey]

pt stuff

i have a question: is the player who choses pt allowed to chose which pokemon he starts with AFTER he has been counterpicked?

if so, it would go like that (assuming pokemon a has the advantage, b's mu is even, c is at a disadvantage):

round one: pt plays pokemon a 2 stocks, the other two 1 stock each (assuming he doesnt switch) = overall advantage

round two: if pt won round, same procedure again.
if he loses, he can counterpick the individual pokemon that's best (round 3 would be like round 1 then).

conclusion: pt should have a small advantage in round 1 and one of the others and a bigger one in the one that's left.
so he's never at a disadvantage if u mix up pt and individual pokemon (assuming the answer to my initial question is yes)

 

[CountKaiser]

nope. i was easily the top ness player at herb2 and i am confident he sucks ****

you all know thunderhorse, that hella good falco player. and jcaeser, that dude is in the backroom. ask them how bad ness is

At this point, I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. You serious, or are you joking?

 

[JCaesar]

He's just cranky because his double non-Ness-main Ness team didn't work out.

He's probably better than Sage but that's not saying much

Ness is fine.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

My issue with that is how it gives even more reason for people to screw over PT and play individual Pogeys.

If anything PT is the one who needs more tricks up his sleeves; the matchup resistance he has also forces him into his bad matchups at least once during a standard 4 stock match (potentially twice) so it's hard to give him that same title as Zelda/Sheik. And assuming Ryoko is right, nothing can be done about their switch mechanics where as Zelda/Sheik can have a lagless transformation ending. That even further lessens matchup resistance on their part by making transforming to hopefully get past a bad matchup daunting and highly punishable, especially in B+.

I would love to see something encouraging the effort of learning 3 characters by making them the ones who stand out from the more popular (and potentially better choice because you aren't forced into bad matchups each match) wild Pogeys instead of vise versa.

the advantage u get from choosing pt is that if you come across a player that kills ur (varies) squirtle, then you can counterpick during the match btwn ivy and char...
that kinda thing

 

[FrozenHobo]

what about changing PT's down b to down taunt idea? it lets them have a 4th attack, but PT can still switch.

 

[Roxas215]

He's just cranky because his double non-Ness-main Ness team didn't work out.

He's probably better than Sage but that's not saying much

Ness is fine.

Lol so cause he didn't win ness sucks now? rofl

Anyway i have no idea how ness plays so im staying out of it. I do know for a fact i have a pro ness in my crew and i never got hit by pk flash in over a year. Now comes all the ness buffs and im getting hit by it like 2-3 times a match. Makes no sense. lol The hit box on that thing is crazy. Im 5 miles away and still getting hit.

what about changing PT's down b to down taunt idea? it lets them have a 4th attack, but PT can still switch.

The pokes dont need a 4th attack. Like plum said if anyone should be getting recognition it's PT himself. Giving the wilds new attacks is further saying(why should i play as PT)

 

[PKNintendo]

Yeah Ness rocks now.

Any love for Lucas? Character is awesome. The physics really helped.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

He's just cranky because his double non-Ness-main Ness team didn't work out.

He's probably better than Sage but that's not saying much

Ness is fine.

Actually, Stingers may be onto something. After playing with Ness, I feel that, while be may be 'fine', he is not 'good' (in fact, if what the rumors that are going around are true, Ness, in fact, sucks). After some careful brainstorming, I think I concocted a list of buffs that not only will make Ness 'good', but 'top tier'. I found that Ness' entire moveset sucks except for his down B which is exceptionally broken. I figure if we're going to give Ness a theme, why not build it on that?

1. Make Ness' down B come out faster and have more invincibility frames. I'm thinking about from frames 1-10 would do the trick.

2. Make Ness' down B wind hitbox spike characters below him. I saw the Sage trying to do that, and I thought it would be a brilliant mixup to an already useful move. And give it more utility as well.

3. The longer you hold Ness' down B, the farther the wind hitbox should push. When it's fully charged after 5 seconds, it should throw the opponent off a death boundary automatically. No matter what the stage and what the distance may be.

4. To make a good character, everyone knows that the character needs a moveset. Buffing Ness' down B isn't going to constitute a good moveset, so let's improve Ness' other moves. Everyone knows PK Flash sucks, so how about this. Instead of what it normally does, PK Flash should do 0 knockback and 0 damage, but instead have a massive wind hitbox when it detonates instead.

5. Ness' forward smash is considered to be his worst smash. Let's fix that. When you wiff with the fsmash, there should be a wind hitbox that pushes the opponent away instead, making it very safe if you happen to be unlucky and mis-space.

6. Hell, let's make it so that even when you connect with Ness' fsmash, it does 0 knockback and 0 damage, but instead also has a significant wind hitbox, making it safe on shields.

7. Replace Ness' forward smash bat with a fan item instead, and alter the hitbox sound accordingly. Makes sense given the other proposed changes.

8. Ness' side B should, instead of doing fire damage, do 0 damage but instead trap the opponent in multiple opposing wind hitboxes. Not only does this trap them conveniently offstage for spikes and resolves the whole 'being able to DI out of it' issue, but it also makes it more useful against Ivysaur, who could escape PK Fire with ease.

8. Since Ness' recovery sucks *** now without infinite PK Thunder, let's fix that and make it at least not be able to be gimped by people simply running into it. The obvious solution, of course, is to make Ness' Up B Psi Magnet instead of PK Thunder.

9. We know alot of Ness mains were displeased about the WBR removing Infinite PK Thunder, so let's throw them a bone. In addition to making Up B Down B, Ness should also receive INFINITE Psi Magnet. Yes, it will affect Down B as well as Up B. That is how nice I am towards the pro-Infinite PKT supporters' plight .

10. Increase the momentum of Up/Down B's wavebounce. About 3/4ths the distance of FD should be right. Imagine this scenario: Ness pushes the opponent offstage with his now-useful fsmash. While the opponent is recovering, Ness performs a wavebounced reverse Up/Down B to throw himself to the opponent. Ness releases the Psi Magnet after a charge of about 2 seconds, instantly pushing the recovering enemy off the stage. Ness uses his Zap Jump with wavebounced Up/Down B to return to the stage, using infinite Up/Down B to recover even more if need be. What a sexy edgeguard.

With these tools at his disposal, I believe Ness will be the character everyone can be proud of. A character than both Ness and his mains deserve. I hope both you and stingers (and the rest of the Brawl+ community) will support me in this endeavor.

10jokeposts.

****, I sounded too proper and not whiny enough to be a Ness main, didn't I? Total giveaway.

 

[Alphatron]

ness needs some buffs. he sucks ****.

Melee Fox is trash. His laser doesn't stun anymore. His uair isn't a guarenteed killer thanks to ADing. He has crap range, meh priority, and a crap recovery. He was basically bottom tier.

 

[KOkingpin]

i think that changing some moves around would be a good thing...

i mean right now, we have dumb **** laying around like mario's dtilt and jiggs ftilt that will never be used by anyone ever. if the goal of a balanced game is for every character to be viable with a full arsenal of attacks, why shouldn't some things be changed around?

im pretty sure every move in the game is usable even if it is very situational. Mario's D-Tilt isnt the worst move in the game by far. Its just some options are just so much better for chars. why in gods name would you d-tilt when you can u-tilt. Same goes with jiggs but in a much greater fashion.

 

[Demacrez]

With the new SA, that could mean Link and/or Toon Link can finally have back their rapid stabs. :D

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

Actually, Stingers may be onto something.........

i honestly thought that was a serious post for a second o_o

ness is fine, if you disagree and say he sucks, then its just cuz YOU suck as ness
can we stop talking about the little twit now?

EDIT:

With the new SA, that could mean Link and/or Toon Link can finally have back their rapid stabs. :D

yesz!

 

[PKNintendo]

i honestly thought that was a serious post for a second o_o

ness is fine, if you disagree and say he sucks, then its just cuz YOU suck as ness
can we stop talking about the little twit now?

EDIT:


yesz!

Yes. But Ness isn't no twit!

 

[CloneHat]

I'm sorry to have to bring this up, but after seeing stingers' post, I'd just like to say that Brawl+ is for fixing Brawl to make it more competitive.

SA. It, coupled with the other codes we have, will let you create a completely different game. We could make something that plays like exact Melee, or 64. We could completely change the characters in Brawl to our liking. However, this is BRAWL+.

What I am saying is that I disagree with changing the movesets of Brawl's characters; it is what makes them that character, with that way of play. It is a fundamental.

There will no doubt be a huge argument between those who want their own moves for their character, and those who want to stay the course. I am on the latter side, please do not use SA (excessively, you know what I mean) to modify Brawl+ beyond what it was meant to be.