Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[VietGeek]

h'hey
im saying it would set up without DI
any sort of DI would screw it up xD

imo changing Pound shouldn't happen anyway. You guys might get something else in the future...but nothing as radical as changing how your Pound works.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

anyway...talking about other changes that might actually happen
a Ganondorf Utilt change seems logical xD
it is borderline useless
i'd be ok with it being sped up to the speed of: probably 2.5 - 3 times slower than samus's utilt
maybe a bit stronger wind and weaken the power a little?
any ideas/changes?

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

is it possible to make it so that when you are grabbed by falcon/ganon's upb + diddy kongs forwardb, you get your second jump back? technically they are grabs but if its too much work to do then don't bother with it I guess. idk if kirby's swallow/d3's swallow gives you a second jump back but it'd be cool if moves like that worked this way. same for warios bite but if it really is too much to ask for don't bother with it. or if people feel it'll be melee 2.0. this would also kinda help yoshi mains since they mostly rely on a second jump when recovering

 

[stingers]

that's probably not a good idea, it'd totally kill all the utility they have for edgeguarding. yoshi mains don't really need it.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

bair semi-spike? upb a ko move? lol why do I feel that if yoshi is buffed he'll be mad beassst. ill just leave it up to whoevers good at buffing shiz. I do think making his down b have more kb isn't a too bad an idea

 

[Swordplay]

I am not quite up to date on this thread, so forgive me for being off-topic somewhat.

Can we discuss pit's dtilt? You can fthrow>dtilt towards the edge and some characters feel insta-gibbed by it (concerned with DK and Bowser, and weaker vertical recoveries). I don't mean to say, hey remove the spike, but it just seems too easy and too good to be able to just get a grab near the ledge, and GG without any real options.

I suppose its possible to DI out of it with most characters, i haven't had extensive testing, but I only recall getting out of it once with Falcon, and feeling a bit more helpless with DK. I speak only from some matches I've had. But I open this to discussion.

BlueFoxXT

Punch me.....

I'll take some blame for some of these d-tilt problems. They were a good idea when added as a temp fix and I did put some extensive testing in bringing this up a month or two ago when SPunit gave me the code.....but I never intended them to be so powerful. Especially now that the characters who have these were fixed in other ways that weren't so......1HKO.

I never intended these to be spikes either.....Meteors at best. And at the time, the characters who have these needed a high hitstun onstage move to set up for kills and it could possibly help edge guarding which couldn't hurt as the characters receiving these buffs were very bad at the time..............and this served that purpose.


So in theory and testing, I think these were good idea's but in practice, not so much.....


For that, Punch me as hard as you can because I should have done better.




The REAL way to fix this now that we have the ability to do so........Is simply remove the d-tilt spikes but with our new hitbox code, expand/move the size of the original meteors hitbox's for Links/pits d-tilt because before the hitbox was inside the character and even behind them.

I here the code is "broken" atm from Shell but I know the WBR kicks *** and is trying to right the ship.....I think we'll see in the next nightly.

 

[cAm8ooo]

i want it to be able to place ppl directly above her (not taking DI into thought) so she can Down-B them xP
either way, it has to do somthing strange/special
other wise there is no point in calling it a "Special Move"

Jiggs doesn't really need it anyways in my opinion.

And what do you mean it has to be strange or special? lol How is it any less special then just about any other b move.

 

[VietGeek]

Pit's dtilt is being worked on. IDK about Link's. We're aware of the problem so to speak.

Err don't hurt yourself Swordplay. We all make mistakes. Acknowledging and fixing them is a step beyond, or something lol.

^_^ ?

 

[Blank Mauser]

Pit's dtilt is being worked on. IDK about Link's. We're aware of the problem so to speak.

Err don't hurt yourself Swordplay. We all make mistakes. Acknowledging and fixing them is a step beyond, or something lol.

^_^ ?

No. No "^_^". Emoticons = burned at the stake for us WBR'ers k.

I really think with the huge suction ledges and DI, Pit's Dtilt isn't that big of a problem. However, most have agree'd it could use some fine tuning, and the range and spikability is being worked on. Swordplay's solution is the ideal fix right now.

Link's is less of a problem because its speed isn't really the same.

 

[Dai Tian]

Not sure if anything can be done about it, but here goes:

It was brought up a few pages back that Falcon's nair is in a less than desirable shape. Both kicks only last for 2 frames, so the move can actually stop hurting anyone while the Captain is still flying at them with his legs extended. Is there anyway the hitboxes could be extended to last the entire time that his legs are out there? It's a minor tweak that can go a long way with him without buffing him too much.

There can be times where you properly space the move, but still fail to hit the opponent or worse, get hit out of the move yourself because no matter how long Falcon's legs are out there the move stops hurting quickly. It's supposed to be an awesome spacing tool for his game but it ends up being slightly mediocre instead, because of how long the hitboxes are actually active. If I stick my legs out to hit you then you should be hit, my legs shouldn't suddenly turn into phantoms that can phase right through you and allow you to hit me back.

Captain Falcon doesn't necessarily need buffs, it's been stated many times and I can see how true it is just by playing him. But in its current state the nair can at times feel unreliable, even making me turn to approaching with uairs and bairs instead because I know they'll at least hit like they're supposed to.

In Melee, the move hurt opponents for as long as Falcon's legs were out there and it worked beautifully. It gave him a great spacing tool without suddenly shifting his bad match-ups and letting him **** left and right with it.

Looking back I think someone posted a great comparison between both moves. Yeah, here it is...

If it's 2 frames per kick that's the same as what Ganon's n-air was before. The lack of duration on Ganon's n-air was a big reason the move was crap compared to CF's which gave him coverage the whole time his leg was sticking out and was a great spacing tool.

If the frame data is right, current Falcon has Ganon's nair in that gif. Just looking at it hurts.

Melee Falcon and Brawl+ Falcon are very similar in nature, so I don't think tweaking his nair to work like it did before would make him any better than he was back then, nor would it shift any of his bad match-ups towards his favor by any large margin. He can pressure with it, combo well with it and relieve pressure being applied to him with it... while still being susceptible to his weaknesses.

Again, Falcon doesn't necessarily need this buff... but it isn't unreasonable either.

 

[timothyung]

It can be easily done, but we are lacking lines for frame speed mods for now, so don't expect any frame speed changes anytime soon. I have no comment on the change though.

 

[VietGeek]

It really does seem like we're at the edge with these engine codes until the rewrite is completed.

Because I was poking around with Samus's jab (hitbox and/or frame speed) and it seems Code Manager keeps spitting out corrupted .gcts (when I modify either data entries).

The corrupted .gct gave everyone basically super aerial wavedash momentum from their shorthop so probably wouldn't hurt to try SSE with that...lol.

Also Blank that hurt. =V

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

I was thinking falcons nair could use a "fix" same way zelda's smashes did but whenever I mention falcon everyone says "he's too good" so I don't even bother.

 

[FrozenHobo]

i think a nair fix would be fine. it only makes sense that the hitbox should last as long as the animation, imo.

 

[Deleted member]

Ness' Yoyo
Well....who charges Yoyos anyway.... but ugh I guess why not. It's Ness...he'll always suck LOLOL

I charge Ness's Yoyo, yo. You can already kind of get an upsmash off the edge if you run and charge it, but I should be able to just do it normally.

And if you think Ness sucks, I guess my suggestion isn't too crazy then (bad characters get buffed!)

 

[PosthumusES]

I think that toon link up-b should have lower KBG, so that it all connect at high percentage, because it leave him vunerable without it. It not really a buff, but just a fix, so they connect together.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

I was thinking falcons nair could use a "fix" same way zelda's smashes did but whenever I mention falcon everyone says "he's too good" so I don't even bother.

You really cannot fix aerial moves to link. Even if you modify KB and angle of certain hits to make it link better it's still dependent on you connecting the move with a particular momentum and positioning, and the opponent not being able to DI/SDI out. Fall speed and size also complicate matters. Zelda's smashes, as stationary ground moves, are simple to "fix" as it doesn't contain these variables that aerial attacking does. You also can't SDI the small hits of her smashes by default which helps a lot, like you can with small hits of most aerials. The SDI capacity of a hit is not something currently editable.
TL;DR fixing aerial moves to link properly is fruitless, and even the most finely-tuned multihitting ground moves are still prone to freak misses in certain situations.

Anyway, I only shoot back when shot at and saying and him saying I don't know what I'm talking about as if footstooling is some highly advanced pro-only technique that only he can fathom is pretty annoying...but whatever. I'm not on here for e-friends, YOU should know that by now.

I paid you back with the same coin when you assumed that team footstools are detrimental and always run a lethal risk to your teammate in a snarky manner. From an objective standpoint you did not understand the full mechanics of footstool and the nature of the stun and I called you out on it. You can just say "I was wrong" for making such an assumption and not even look foolish, but yeah, whatever gets your ego to float I guess.

 

[DrCrawford]

oh, i noticed this in regular brawl, and it still happens in +, but warios down a smash stops dealing damage even though he's still spinning in the last few frames. someone could walk by him while he's doing this and would not get hurt. are there plans to speed this move up, or give it appropriate damage duration?

 

[Plum]

oh, i noticed this in regular brawl, and it still happens in +, but warios down a smash stops dealing damage even though he's still spinning in the last few frames. someone could walk by him while he's doing this and would not get hurt. are there plans to speed this move up, or give it appropriate damage duration?

I hate the move, you get punished for hitting with the move which is stupid, but really Wario doesn't need anything.
He is already EXTREMELY good, and lost a huge thorn in his side when grab releases were taken out (no more infinites or free KO's on him).

The move isn't useless; it can be a decent GTFO move at higher percents when they get sent too far to punish you for hitting them, but you really just have to not use the move until then. But considering how a majority (I would go as far as to say a vast majority) of his moveset already has a good, defined use, he doesn't need Dsmash to work like it should.

 

[GuruKid]

Brawl+ Smashfest Livestream: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/insomniac-smashfest

We're using the 6/10 nightly build.

 

[shanus]

http://brawlplus.net/nightly.html


New build released

 

[ChronoPenguin]

cool...

ctrl+f yoshi
Tears were found.

 

[shanus]

so just for you guys to know:

Regarding Pit dtilt among other things, we have plans to fix it nicely, don't worry. It uses a fancy new code which just isn't working 100% yet. So yeah....

 

[CloneHat]

Ness's DJ is like a mini Melee AD if you cancel it, but he can use his second jump again. It works, but do you plan to keep it like this?

 

[Bladefist137]

Still no love for Yoshi

 

[SymphonicSage12]

So, I see you went through with the peach mains' request to make peach bomber have more KBG, but what does lowering the BKB do exactly? I'm just wondering since I don't know how these things work. XD

 

[Shell]

BKB = Base Knock Back. This is the beginning level of KB the move does when the opponent has no damage.

KBG = Knock Back Growth. This is how the KB scales as the opponent's damage increases.

Thus, the move has lower KB at first than it used to, but it'll start having much higher KB faster.

 

[shanus]

Ness's DJ is like a mini Melee AD if you cancel it, but he can use his second jump again. It works, but do you plan to keep it like this?

Its kind of crude right now. It is meant as a proof of concept really for Ness mains to test out. Right now it has some undesirable properties given its current implementation.

Known issues with it:

-You can DJC into a tech
-You get around 3 frames of invulnerability


Both of these will be fixed when we have an updated code.

We aren't sure about removing the ability to removing the second jump or not, we will see with that part.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Oh, I get it now. So you made it more powerful, per se, but you lowered its initial knockback so it's not supercheap or way too OP.

 

[_clinton]

I love the new stuff with the others that I've tried out...but I don't understand Ness' DJC...how does it work?

 

[shanus]

I love the new stuff with the others that I've tried out...but I don't understand Ness' DJC...how does it work?

You have a frame window during your first jump where if you double jump it cancels your upwards momentum.

So try this very quickly, jump jump nair, its like super fast shffls. or jump jump uair, etc

 

[CountKaiser]

You jump while rising from a shorthop or a full jump. In other words, jump twice quickly.

Initial impressions of it are......underwhelmed. Then again, I'll need more time to play with it and see what applications can come of it.

 

[shanus]

You jump while rising from a shorthop or a full jump. In other words, jump twice quickly.

Initial impressions of it are......underwhelmed. Then again, I'll need more time to play with it and see what applications can come of it.

it seems pretty awesome to me actually

certain charracters you can dthrow DJC uair regrab at low %s

DJC bairs at like a hair off the ground rapid fire are epic

you can do fairly epic footstool DJC combos too

 

[WhalesOnStilts]

ganons side b is all messed up, the only guaranteed attack after it is his jab

 

[CountKaiser]

it seems pretty awesome to me actually

certain charracters you can dthrow DJC uair regrab at low %s

DJC bairs at like a hair off the ground rapid fire are epic

you can do fairly epic footstool DJC combos too

Hmmm. I figured I was doing it wrong. Oh well, back to training.

 

[BlueFoxXT]

Punch me.....

I'll take some blame for some of these d-tilt problems. They were a good idea when added as a temp fix and I did put some extensive testing in bringing this up a month or two ago when SPunit gave me the code.....but I never intended them to be so powerful. Especially now that the characters who have these were fixed in other ways that weren't so......1HKO.

I never intended these to be spikes either.....Meteors at best. And at the time, the characters who have these needed a high hitstun onstage move to set up for kills and it could possibly help edge guarding which couldn't hurt as the characters receiving these buffs were very bad at the time..............and this served that purpose.


So in theory and testing, I think these were good idea's but in practice, not so much.....


For that, Punch me as hard as you can because I should have done better.




The REAL way to fix this now that we have the ability to do so........Is simply remove the d-tilt spikes but with our new hitbox code, expand/move the size of the original meteors hitbox's for Links/pits d-tilt because before the hitbox was inside the character and even behind them.

I here the code is "broken" atm from Shell but I know the WBR kicks *** and is trying to right the ship.....I think we'll see in the next nightly.

Absolutely glad to hear response to this. Thanks very much (as well as acknowledgment to others working on this)

Looking forward to the next nightly,

BlueFoxXT

 

[_clinton]

You have a frame window during your first jump where if you double jump it cancels your upwards momentum.

So try this very quickly, jump jump nair, its like super fast shffls. or jump jump uair, etc

Thanks for the fast reply...I get it now (and I understand what the others meant by renewing the 2nd jump by mistake...I wasn't paying attn to the fact that I was just doing that)

I guess I have mixed feelings on it...because I keep doing it when I don't want to...but I'm aware that is my mistake and I guess I could get use to it if I practice more (of course...I have to ask...couldn't you just make the cancel happen while doing a move? Like for example...when using rising Fair...as in...if you press jump again during a move in the 2nd jump Ness will halt all of his vertical movement naturally)

 

[VietGeek]

ganons side b is all messed up, the only guaranteed attack after it is his jab

Actually no. Dtilt and ftilt should work, but the timing is strict (mostly on ftilt; I did dtilt without a care).

Raise your buffer to 10 frames (100) if you haven't already.

 

[weinzey]

could we get a pal version of the new nightly plzzzzz?
the most recent pal version is the last official set and there have been so many changes since then that drastically affect like everything, even character choice. (i'm very jealous of ntsc ness mains)

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Captain Falcon's down smash: the opponent gets knocked forward from the first hit. They can tech once they hit the ground at low percents. :/

EDIT: nvm I thought it was a problem, but it isn't now that I think about it.