Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[CyberGlitch]

Plum, and the major problem with that is, when exactly would you use the newly buffed move instead of bair? Bair's still going to be just as good, just as useful, and just that much better than all his other moves, only now you've nerfed his offensive game as well, resulting in a net loss.

To those who can already get around his back air, this will not be much of a loss. These are the people G&W mains are concerned with. For the rest of the cast that G&W dominates, this would be a loss. It would end up putting G&W as a more even matchup against them. We G&W mains are perfectly fine with with this, and we recognize this as better game balance, as long as G&W gains a buff to make his game more varied.

The chef buff would not be a replacement for back air, it would be silly and overpowered if it were, but to make it a reasonable move to add to his game we've found through testing that it'd need a slight speedup at startup (compensating for the increased movespeed of approaching characters in the air and on the ground) and a large reduction in end lag (allowing the move to lead into other offensive or defensive strategies as other characters with projectiles can often do). This, when properly used, could help G&W against those characters who could get around his back air.

So saying its a net loss is oversimplifying things.

 

[HeroPenguin]

It'd be difficult to map it to a different button, though, without interfering with other stuff. The only button that isn't used for anything in the air is the +pad, and the last time I suggested moving a command there, people weren't too fond of the idea. However, if the "unrestricted control editing" code was implemented, it might be feasible to turn the taunt button into the footstool button while in the air, as then players could assign it to whichever jump button they don't use (or even a shield button if they wanted to) and have easy access to it for when they WANT to footstool, but without causing them to accidentally perform it when they DO NOT want to. Perhaps you could also include some sort of punishment for pressing footstool when there's nothing to footstool, so it would truly require smart usage. What that would be, though, I have no idea.

I really like this idea. I don't even use a controller that has an extra convenient button (Nunchuck artist. I got accustomed to it in vBrawl after my sister inherited the GC when she moved away, and now I try to jump with L on GC controllers. DOES NOT WORK! XD) and I can see how nifty it would be to apply.

All that said, if it'd be difficult to map and code, Silven is right, there's a lot more that is much higher priority. If it'd be simple though, I'd like to see this in an upcoming nightly to test out.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Instead of removing footstools I think we should make them easier to do.
This way less of it is accidental as people can now suitably do them with greater ease.
I don't know if it's possible to increase the range on it.
However what I do know is this.
When playing Yoshi I can D-air and if they don't Smash DI out quick enough or if I got them into the D-air later on in the attack I can then Footstool them for a greater spike.

Most footstools do happen by accident but that's probably just because people don't feel a reason to purposefully footstool.
If the range for a footstool could remain on the opponents head but also extend to their body or so, it now becomes an idea to Attack then FS during the hitstun, over the stage this would be good if you want to force a tech chase. Off the stage this is a way to try and gimp them.
However In my opinion the way FS is now, using it intentionally is rather difficult (for instance if they are attacking they don't actually get spiked and your still at risk at getting hurt, generally all yoshi's take advantage of this for an immunity to Footstooling) and the benefit's don't seem great enough for the risk.


Anyways since I'm the only one talking about Yoshi >.>
I want to propose something that possibly may seem like a "no."
Yoshi's ^B in total has 5 boosts, the 1st in is the greatest and they continually decrease until 5, at the 6th toss there is no longer a boost and any throw after the 6th will also have no boost.
I would like to change it so that everything after the 5th throw has the same boost as the 5th throw.
This isn't for recovery but rather for Edge canceled eggs.
I went and made sure that you actually can throw an egg onto the stage even with the near non existant boost of the 5th throw.

This isn't intended for recovery as a simple check shows that the 5th throw's boost is so ... minute it doesn't actually appear as a boost at all, more like a momentum halt.
Because of lag, Yoshi would easily lose any vertical height he gained. And with the slower momentum (I'm not sure) he might actually gain less vertical distance by spamming eggs than just using his normal aerial momentum, though that's not for certain.

ECE was something not uncommon to see in melee and it's severely gimped in brawl. This isn't out of a request to make Yoshi like melee but more to improve his game on the ledge.

 

[shanus]

I use footstools a lot :-O

Also, Ness DJC footstool combos (aka footstool cancels) are epic.

 

[CyberGlitch]

I honestly don't see what all the hoopah is about footstools. If they could be mapped to a different button, I guess I could eliminate a lot of complaining, but I've yet to see them negatively impact the game in a way people seem to imply here.

 

[GameSystem]

If footstools were mapped to a different button, people would probably never ever use them again. If the only time most people did them was on accident, mapping it to a different button is basically the same as removing it from the game. If that happens, you'll never see another footstool again. Just leave it as is.
People need to start actively going for them. If you jump at someone trying to recover, you have a good chance to footstool them. If they use an uair or something, they may have too much lag from the move to up b in time and they kill themselves. Most uairs hit up so you won't even have to worry about dying most of the time.

 

[GHNeko]

Make it after you press teh jump button, footstools are disabled for 10 frames, unless you just footstooled properly. :V

 

[FrozenHobo]

no gonna lie frozenpopo, but i keep seeing you post "when can we expect an update" in like, 2 or 3 threads consistently.

be patient, brawl+ coders are people too. they have lives outside of smashboards and nightly builds. also, putting nightly in quotes seems a little demanding, but whatever dude.

that hurt man. it really hurt. oh, and those '2 or 3' threads asking for B+ updates happen to be this thread. think you might be getting a little confused there. and i only ask because the last time i asked was sometime before last weekend when they said we should be getting one in a week.... which would be around this weekend....you see where i'm going with this? plus, its not really a 'nightly' build when you have over 2 weeks in between updates.

 

[CountKaiser]

This thread should be renamed to weekly builds.

As for footstools, leave them in. Footstool combos are awesome. I do think, though, that they should be mapped to another button. Currently, you can press jump or A and footstool someone, which means it can come about from spamming buttons. Make it so that you can only footstool with either X or Y, or something like that.

 

[GHNeko]

The issue is, you cant map it to a specific button. It has to be mapped to a function due to customizable controls and that people use different controllers (Classic and Chuk) :V

 

[ChronoPenguin]

It shouldn't be mapped to anything.
Whether it comes from spamming or not doesn't matter.
There are multiple ways to prevent a FSJ and if you did not exercise those, you could've been gimped from a number of other ways.

 

[timothyung]

Side taunts: Jump only
Up/Down taunt: Footstool only
Jump: Jump/Footstool
Any thoughts?

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Why are footstool jumps a pressing issue of balance?
Though they can be done accidentally they're usually not worth the risk because the character has better options.

 

[CountKaiser]

They're an issue because they come about a bit too randomly.

 

[kupo15]

If footstools were mapped to a different button, people would probably never ever use them again. If the only time most people did them was on accident, mapping it to a different button is basically the same as removing it from the game. If that happens, you'll never see another footstool again. Just leave it as is.
People need to start actively going for them. If you jump at someone trying to recover, you have a good chance to footstool them. If they use an uair or something, they may have too much lag from the move to up b in time and they kill themselves. Most uairs hit up so you won't even have to worry about dying most of the time.

So you side on "the game controlling you" over "you controlling yourself?" If they can be mapped to another button and most people choose never to use it, so what? Ganon's utilt is mapped to a different combination. If it were tied to another input that was location specific and over ride a move you wanted to do, would you argue that it should not be a separate command so you are forced to use that move when you didn't want to?

Footstool was programmed terribly and it violates a rule of thumb for making a great game...You should never take the control away from the player unless its for a good reason. Things like cutscenes, hitstun and stuff like that are fine to surrender control but not being able to choose if you want to footstool or not is just not right. If you use footstools in your game, fine good for you. If you don't ever want another footstool in your life, then that is ok also. Lets not force our players into doing things they don't want to do.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

They aren't random >.>
Nor are they an issue of balance.
They don't break anything, whether you map it to a different button or not it's still the same thing.
Instead you cause the move to generally disappear just from it not being a highly used feature anyways.

Also can't you ^B out of a fSJ or was that removed in Brawl+?

Footstool was programmed terribly and it violates a rule of thumb for making a great game...You should never take the control away from the player unless its for a good reason. Things like cutscenes, hitstun and stuff like that are fine to surrender control but not being able to choose if you want to footstool or not is just not right. If you use footstools in your game, fine good for you. If you don't ever want another footstool in your life, then that is ok also. Lets not force our players into doing things they don't want to do.

What are you talking about?
Don't want to FSJ? For what purpose?
An inherent property of a jump, and an attack move are not the same thing, so I find your comparison between Ganon's utilt weak.

The game controlling you?
If you don't want to FSJ, A) Time your jump B) Don't jump C) Hit them and Jump D) WTF does it matter anyways considering it puts you in an advantageous position. If the problem is FSJING Over the stage, than I see what the issue is however you shouldn't be doing that unless you were unnecessarily pressing the jump button anyways.
If your opponent coincidentally appears under you making you FSJ when you didn't want to, thats a shame, your opponent intercepted your jump and caused an action you didn't want. That's not the game, thats your opponent.
If your opponent didn't want to be FSJ'd they would've played smarter.

What are you asking for anyways?
For FSJ to be completely separate from jumping on option?
Who get's this option?
What if I WANT FSJ attached to my jumping?
What is your idea for that?

 

[Plum]

Well it would be a very stupid way to deal with them by mapping their function to a different button.
For me, I already have my controls set up in a way that doesn't leave me with an open button unless I want to get rid of taunts, which I can tell you now is something I don't ever want to do. And they do have competitive use, such as footstooling Yoshi's recovery, or footstool combos for some characters; I shouldn't lose a strategy to deal with Yoshi because I don't have room on my controller to have footstooling. Everything should be possible on no matter what controller scheme you play on, and forcing players to sacrifice their optimized control scheme for footstooling is stupid.

If they could be turned into something related to the jump function, then sure. As in you have to press jump for a few frames (like the time to impute a SH for the average character), that would be great. No idea if that is possible, but removing random footstooling would be a nice thing.

Is it needed right now? No... there are much more important things before footstooling is fixed.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Kupo, when you foostool someone that is you pressing the button and it is your fault. Just like falling off the edge and Nairing with Ike. No one controls your inputs but you, its just another thing you have to keep in mind. Failing to grasp your current situation comes on your own accord.

The game does not suddenly say "Oh I don't like you, I'm going to give you a random footstool."

 

[jokey665]

So you side on "the game controlling you" over "you controlling yourself?" If they can be mapped to another button and most people choose never to use it, so what? Ganon's utilt is mapped to a different combination. If it were tied to another input that was location specific and over ride a move you wanted to do, would you argue that it should not be a separate command so you are forced to use that move when you didn't want to?

Footstool was programmed terribly and it violates a rule of thumb for making a great game...You should never take the control away from the player unless its for a good reason. Things like cutscenes, hitstun and stuff like that are fine to surrender control but not being able to choose if you want to footstool or not is just not right. If you use footstools in your game, fine good for you. If you don't ever want another footstool in your life, then that is ok also. Lets not force our players into doing things they don't want to do.

You are controlling yourself. Or, not controlling yourself as the case may be. You should know the "hitbox" of your footstool or whatever you want to call it. You should know when jumping in a certain position relative to your opponent will make you footstool or not. If you're not willing to learn the timing/spacing/whatever for footstools that's your own problem. If you do know them already then you have a few options on what to do when in position to footstool:
1. Footstool.
2. Reposition yourself away from your opponent, then jump.
3. Don't jump.

Just because you haven't mastered footstooling yet doesn't mean other players haven't.

 

[timothyung]

The issue is that you can mash the jump button for a footstool. Neko's suggestion would be OK I guess, but we can't just set a timer or it'll ruin grounded footstools. Maybe the timer should only be active when the character is in the air.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

You are controlling yourself. Or, not controlling yourself as the case may be. You should know the "hitbox" of your footstool or whatever you want to call it. You should know when jumping in a certain position relative to your opponent will make you footstool or not. If you're not willing to learn the timing/spacing/whatever for footstools that's your own problem. If you do know them already then you have a few options on what to do when in position to footstool:
1. Footstool.
2. Reposition yourself away from your opponent, then jump.
3. Don't jump.

Just because you haven't mastered footstooling yet doesn't mean other players haven't.

^^^^
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[~tgm_Zeej]

So, can we set a footstool button through the control editing? Because my X button having a use again would be great.

And accidental footstools make me rage. =(

 

[leafgreen386]

Chrono... what the frick? You want to make footstools easier to do? The reason they happen when they do now is because they're too easy, and it's easy to get one instead of just your regular DJ if you're near your opponent. The hitbox for footstools is not small. If you're actually using a footstool intentionally, you should have no problems hitting with it. The problem comes from footstools happening on accident because the game has no way to differentiate between you wanting to footstool and you wanting to DJ. It's not a matter of it being a "pressing issue of balance." It's a matter of streamlining controls to actually not suck. There was no reason we needed to implement the buffer code, but we did, anyway, because it gives more refined control to the player. You seem to only be looking at this from the perspective of the the person being footstooled. Well, guess what? I could care less about them. This is all about the person actually performing the footstool and how in certain ranges the game actually removes control from the player by limiting their actions.

You are controlling yourself. Or, not controlling yourself as the case may be. You should know the "hitbox" of your footstool or whatever you want to call it. You should know when jumping in a certain position relative to your opponent will make you footstool or not. If you're not willing to learn the timing/spacing/whatever for footstools that's your own problem. If you do know them already then you have a few options on what to do when in position to footstool:
1. Footstool.
2. Reposition yourself away from your opponent, then jump.
3. Don't jump.

Just because you haven't mastered footstooling yet doesn't mean other players haven't.

How is the game removing my ability to DJ my fault? It's not a matter of "not mastering" footstooling. It's a matter of the game limiting my options for no good reason. Do you not agree that there are situations in which you'd rather perform a DJ than a footstool? If you don't agree with that statement, then you're a lost cause. If you do agree, then you should be all for mapping footstooling to a different button, as all it does is add an option you should rightfully have when you're in the air. It's not taking away your option to footstool in favor of a DJ (you know... like how the footstool currently takes away your option to DJ...). It's simply allowing you to perform whichever one you please.

 

[Glick]

I'd be happy if we could map it to a different button. If you could make it so there's one button that jumps without the chance of a footstool and one with a chance of footstool. I'd just make footstooling Y and regular jumping X.

I really can't name a lot of people that use both. So I'm sure some could use Y for regular and X for footstooled jump.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

How many characters actually need the FSJ in the first place?
The fact that most people don't use it intentionally just may be...because they don't feel a use for it, because they have better options.
Isolating the FSJ doesn't make it better if it's lame it's still lame, and people still aren't going to use it.
Mapping it to a different button doesn't make someone go "Well I can press this and FSJ", why the hell would it when you can use an attack with better range than a FSJ?

Since when can you FSJ with the a button? How is this even possible?
It says nowhere in the game, smashbros or well anywhere that you can >.>

If your opponent gets hit with an FSJ, it doesn't matter whether you intentionally did it or not, they got themselves in that position and now they pay for the consequence.
That's just IT.

When you do the wrong attack, doing an N-air instead of a U-air, and the N-air kills, the opponent didn't deserve their death?
Of course they **** did.

There is no matter of Deserving, any opponent who GETS themselves in that situation GETS what's coming to them, intentional or not.


Your going to need to be more precise in your argument.
The loss of control is what?
A FSJ only IMPROVES your jump, it does not make you lose control of it.
If you DONT want to FSJ, Be wary of your bloody positioning.

For a bunch of people who go well "Spacing is important" when it comes to NOT FSJING you feel it should be removed from the normal jump button because you don't feel like remembering your spacing?

 

[kupo15]

Yea, leaf basically summed up everything I was going to say and clarified the type of loss of control I was talking about.

 

[Glick]

Yea, leaf basically summed up everything I was going to say and clarified the type of loss of control I was talking about.

A lot of people disliked brawls buffer because they felt like they had a loss for control. With the new buffer options that was solved. I feel like FSJ is something else can should be an optional solve. I still stand by my X and Y idea.

 

[CloneHat]

You're not supposed to by a "footstool master" to play Brawl+. When I want to jump, I should not have to move away from my opponent to make it happen. Jumping has always been a fundamental part of Smash, footstools are just more comical bull**** Sakurai through in along with tripping. Not only is extremely easy to do accidentally or on purpose, it gives every character a reliable spike! I'm sure more competitive players would use it more if the input wasn't so botched, and we'd be seeing footstool spikes all day, from non-spiking characters like MK, for example. If someone finds a code to remove footstools, I'll put it in my set, right beside the the No Tripping code.

 

[Arkaether]

How many characters actually need the FSJ in the first place?

Not many. Though a bunch of chars have FSJ>aerial options, such as marth's FSJ>dair spikes. And such as jiggly's weak nair > FSJ which is one of the rapest spikes in the entire game.

The fact that most people don't use it intentionally just may be...because they don't feel a use for it, because they have better options.
Isolating the FSJ doesn't make it better if it's lame it's still lame, and people still aren't going to use it.
Mapping it to a different button doesn't make someone go "Well I can press this and FSJ", why the hell would it when you can use an attack with better range than a FSJ?

You are COMPLETELY missing the point. FSJ is lame. It's going to be lame if we change the button. People still aren't going to use it. THAT IS THE PURPOSE OF CHANGING IT TO ANOTHER BUTTON.

Now, people can completely ignore the fact that FSJ is available, without screwing up with accidental FSJs or unneeded FSJs, and have a guaranteed uninterrupted double jump. People who DO want FSJs can have a button to use FSJs whenever they want instead of mashing the jump button in the vicinity of the opponent's head and praying to god they get a FSJ.

Since when can you FSJ with the a button? How is this even possible?
It says nowhere in the game, smashbros or well anywhere that you can >.>

You can't. v:

If your opponent gets hit with an FSJ, it doesn't matter whether you intentionally did it or not, they got themselves in that position and now they pay for the consequence.
That's just IT.

When you do the wrong attack, doing an N-air instead of a U-air, and the N-air kills, the opponent didn't deserve their death?
Of course they **** did.

There is no matter of Deserving, any opponent who GETS themselves in that situation GETS what's coming to them, intentional or not.

Nobody cares about the OPPONENT, they care about YOU. If I want to DJ>dair with falco, but the DJ activates the FSJ and I go 3000 meters into the air where I can't do anything, the one with a problem here isn't the OPPONENT, it's YOU. This change is meant to allow YOU to exert more selective control over exactly when and where you want your FSJs.

This means you don't have to consistently double check every 1/10th of a second to make sure your spacing is EXACTLY perfect so that you do/don't get that FSJ you're looking for while making sure that your aerial movement is in the right direction and that if you miss the FSJ your DJ doesn't take you in danger and that if your FSJ hits you can followup and the opponent can't be doing a move or the FSJ won't have any effect or you might get hit or if you just want a DJ you're not within range of the FSJ and that you don't accidentally move within range and you have to have the right distance...etc, etc.

This change is meant to fine-tune and improve the control YOU have over YOUR character.

This was the ENTIRE basis for the buffer code; each person has a personal preference in just how much buffer they need, so that the PLAYER could have a more exacting control over the actions of his character. Similarly, this would give each person far more control over when and where a FSJ does or does not activate.

Your going to need to be more precise in your argument.
The loss of control is what?
A FSJ only IMPROVES your jump, it does not make you lose control of it.
If you DONT want to FSJ, Be wary of your bloody positioning.

For a bunch of people who go well "Spacing is important" when it comes to NOT FSJING you feel it should be removed from the normal jump button because you don't feel like remembering your spacing?

And I'm sure you can remember the EXACT size of the FSJ area of effect, and you can have guaranteed spacing at every instant you're near your opponent. Let's not even go into how DJ>aerial is a major strategy for a vast variety of characters where the effective DJ region is WITHIN the FSJ area meaning that there is no way to efficiently pull it off consistently because of the chance of that FSJ activating.

 

[Yingyay]

I say map footstooling to a taunt button. It take away the randomness completely. Unless people actually like gimping people by accident and are afraid to admit it.

 

[FrozenHobo]

i'm seeing a complaint about how high the FSJ sends people. could you just make it so it doesn't send you as high AS WELL AS decreasing the amount of time the tumble animation lasts? that way you can still recover if you get footstool'd and aren't punished if you do it on accident with a huge hight boost.

 

[ChronoTrigga]

I personally thing jumping on a characters head should be removed completely.

 

[kupo15]

If someone finds a code to remove footstools, I'll put it in my set, right beside the the No Tripping code.

Using the conditional action mod, you can make this a reality. But the best thing you can do is just make the Footstool not affect either player however, you would be able to infinitely double jump over someones head which when I played around with it, it was really sweet actually. The team strats for non affecting footstools that acts like a double jump are really neat. You can double jump off of your teammates head after they reached their peak and still have a double jump to reach new heights without screwing over your teammate.

 

[timothyung]

You don't even need the conditional action mod, just use a code to set the footstool counter so that no one can footstool. IIRC there is already a code to let you do as many footstools as you want, so by changing it a bit, you should be able to remove footstools completely.

 

[leafgreen386]

How many characters actually need the FSJ in the first place?
The fact that most people don't use it intentionally just may be...because they don't feel a use for it, because they have better options.
Isolating the FSJ doesn't make it better if it's lame it's still lame, and people still aren't going to use it.
Mapping it to a different button doesn't make someone go "Well I can press this and FSJ", why the hell would it when you can use an attack with better range than a FSJ?

Uh... who cares? How is this at all relevant to the argument?

Since when can you FSJ with the a button? How is this even possible?
It says nowhere in the game, smashbros or well anywhere that you can >.>

I've never heard this before today, myself, actually. If it's true, though, I will rage.

If your opponent gets hit with an FSJ, it doesn't matter whether you intentionally did it or not, they got themselves in that position and now they pay for the consequence.
That's just IT.

When you do the wrong attack, doing an N-air instead of a U-air, and the N-air kills, the opponent didn't deserve their death?
Of course they **** did.

There is no matter of Deserving, any opponent who GETS themselves in that situation GETS what's coming to them, intentional or not.

You're sorta clueless, aren't you? There is "deserving." Just as no player "deserves" random luck, they also don't deserve to benefit from screwing up. In fact, if you screw up, aren't you usually supposed to be... oh... I dunno... punished? Unintentional footstools cause one player to be inappropriately rewarded and one to be inappropriately punished, and the punished player is not always the one who was footstooled. Footstools can mess up legit edgeguards, too, allowing an opponent to recover.

Your going to need to be more precise in your argument.
The loss of control is what?
A FSJ only IMPROVES your jump, it does not make you lose control of it.
If you DONT want to FSJ, Be wary of your bloody positioning.

...are you dense? I believe I stated fairly clearly what the loss of control was. It replaces your ability to DJ with a footstool. You don't always want a higher jump. In fact, if you're trying to oh... I dunno... space an aerial with your jump (yeah, funny you're talking about spacing and how people actually use their jumps for spacing) and you accidentally footstool, it will screw up the spacing on your aerial, possibly allowing the opponent to escape relatively unscathed.

For a bunch of people who go well "Spacing is important" when it comes to NOT FSJING you feel it should be removed from the normal jump button because you don't feel like remembering your spacing?

Perhaps if you had actually read what I've been saying, you'll notice that my problem isn't that you have to have a certain spacing to footstool, it's that if you have that spacing you are not allowed to perform a regular jump. Is it that hard to learn that if you jump there that you will footstool? No. Not at all. But it's stupid, and it's taking away options from the player instead of expanding them. You should have no problem with giving a player more options, especially those which are rightfully theirs. Brawl is the only smash game to have a window in which you cannot DJ near the opponent. Given the precedents, I fail to see how this could be anything except for bad game design.

 

[CloneHat]

@kupo:

That sounds like a crazy awesome team strategy. While leaving yourself open for a gimp, you can jump out and let your teammate land on you to recover. I would recommend the FSJ hight be lowered, however, so it doesn't become a broken strategy.

That still doesn't solve the problem of the horrible input, however.

 

[Hyrus]

Kupo, when you foostool someone that is you pressing the button and it is your fault.

I can really appreciate the motive here if we were talking about skills and reflexes. But I can't count the number of times i've pressed the button to do a shield grab and, due to the unpredictable nature of shield push from attack to attack, been launched off the ledge into a buffered aerial that I couldn't recover from. That's not just buffering, it's unpredictable elements.

Just because it's humanly possible doesn't mean that it's humanly applicable.

Footstooling is an exceptionally lame technique for a very important reason. Your opponent can't be doing anything. If they're in the frames of an attack, shielding, dodging, etc... you can't footstool. Tie in the fact that the command to footstool is also the command to perform another, basic, desperately necessary feature... and just like Powershielding, it becomes something that can often be done by mistake. That's poor design for a game where skill and reflexes should determine the winner.

If you're looking to do an offstage gimp, you need to be low enough off stage to HAVE to use your double jump in the first place just to make it back. If you aren't that low, than your opponent will likely recover from the footstool anyway. Unpredictable requirments, no risk, bad idea.

 

[CloneHat]

Would anybody cared if Footstools were just erased? Not me. There aren't any characters that actually RELY on Footstools.

 

[Yingyay]

Plus footstools **** yoshi. If you ever footstool yoshi on his second jump he's screwed forever. Not that Yoshi players are common or that they would ever DJ without attacking or something. Plus is there a way to remove invisble/False FSJ? By false I mean when someone is attacking and you FSJ off their attack or when someone is on the edge and you FSJ off their head.

 

[slikvik]

Would anybody cared if Footstools were just erased? Not me. There aren't any characters that actually RELY on Footstools.

Although that's false, I personally wish footstools weren't in the game