Not due to the frame speed limit. Due to the slow down of the move.
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Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)
- Thread starter shanus
- Start date
- Status
Heroes_Never_Die
Smash Journeyman
IIRC, a similar glitch occurred with Snake's Dthrow quite some time ago. I don't know what was done to fix it though.
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
It was a result of trying to speed up the throwing animation globally (this was before we even had the frame speed mod and had to control this stuff all with separate codes for universal stuff). It was "fixed" by removing the code.
XSilvenX
Smash Lord
Dam that's bad.
+1 hurdle to fix before going gold because if this happens in tournament that's just fail.
+1 hurdle to fix before going gold because if this happens in tournament that's just fail.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
Well, this definitely needs to be worked on. D:
Ally, Mew2King, M2K, KOS-MOS, Mang0, Cactaur, ChuDat, Chu, Mango, Azen, DSW, Shiz, Kage, Linguini, Hungrybox, Zhu, Jman, Scar, Silent Spectre, Atomsk, ADHD, DSF, Anti, NinjaLink, AndyG, Dojo, Lee Martin, Ultimate Razor, Inui, Candy, Boss, Taj, Bum, SK92, Kismet, DEHF, Leepuff, Koskinator, lain, CO18, neo, tyrant, dabuz, anther, overswarm, fiction, reflex, gimpy, gimpyfish, Peepee, Wobbles, SamuraiPanda, Bowyer, Judge, Ankoku, Quivo, AlphaZealot, Xisin, Hunger, Lucky, Eggz, Eggm, Sliq, Wife, chillin, meep, Royr, hylian, DMG, plank, spamerer, kingace, dazwa, fatal, blackwaltz, jash, chip, afro thundah, seibrik, lambchops, holy nightmare, mike haze, snakeee, dmbrandon, MalcomM, Santi and Hugs
Ally, Mew2King, M2K, KOS-MOS, Mang0, Cactaur, ChuDat, Chu, Mango, Azen, DSW, Shiz, Kage, Linguini, Hungrybox, Zhu, Jman, Scar, Silent Spectre, Atomsk, ADHD, DSF, Anti, NinjaLink, AndyG, Dojo, Lee Martin, Ultimate Razor, Inui, Candy, Boss, Taj, Bum, SK92, Kismet, DEHF, Leepuff, Koskinator, lain, CO18, neo, tyrant, dabuz, anther, overswarm, fiction, reflex, gimpy, gimpyfish, Peepee, Wobbles, SamuraiPanda, Bowyer, Judge, Ankoku, Quivo, AlphaZealot, Xisin, Hunger, Lucky, Eggz, Eggm, Sliq, Wife, chillin, meep, Royr, hylian, DMG, plank, spamerer, kingace, dazwa, fatal, blackwaltz, jash, chip, afro thundah, seibrik, lambchops, holy nightmare, mike haze, snakeee, dmbrandon, MalcomM, Santi and Hugs
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
stingers, stop with the name trap thing, it is so annoying
stingers
Smash Obsessed
XFD
Get *****!
Get *****!
MK26
Smash Master
Eggm, Sliq, Wife, chillin, meep, Royr, hylian, DMG, plank, spamerer, kingace, dazwa, fatal, blackwaltz, jash, chip, afro thundah, seibrik, lambchops, holy nightmare, mike haze, snakeee, dmbrandon, MalcomM, Santi and Hugs
you spelled cactuar worng, and i think Malcolm as well
And where's Hiemie in all this? Isnt he the original name searcher?
Hungrybox, Zhu, Jman, Scar, Silent Spectre, Atomsk, ADHD, DSF, Anti, NinjaLink, AndyG, Dojo, Lee Martin, Ultimate Razor, Inui, Candy, Boss, Taj, Bum, SK92, Kismet, DEHF, Leepuff, Koskinator, lain, CO18,
Aww snap 2 posts from 1000! what to do, what to do...*plots while laughing evilly*
neo, tyrant, dabuz, anther, overswarm, fiction, reflex, gimpy, gimpyfish, hiemie, Peepee, Wobbles, SamuraiPanda, Bowyer, Judge, Ankoku, Quivo, AlphaZealot, Xisin, Hunger, Lucky, Eggz,
Ally, Mew2King, M2K, KOS-MOS, Mang0, Cactuar, ChuDat, Chu, Mango, Azen, DSW, Shiz, Kage, Linguini
you spelled cactuar worng, and i think Malcolm as well
And where's Hiemie in all this? Isnt he the original name searcher?
Hungrybox, Zhu, Jman, Scar, Silent Spectre, Atomsk, ADHD, DSF, Anti, NinjaLink, AndyG, Dojo, Lee Martin, Ultimate Razor, Inui, Candy, Boss, Taj, Bum, SK92, Kismet, DEHF, Leepuff, Koskinator, lain, CO18,
Aww snap 2 posts from 1000! what to do, what to do...*plots while laughing evilly*
neo, tyrant, dabuz, anther, overswarm, fiction, reflex, gimpy, gimpyfish, hiemie, Peepee, Wobbles, SamuraiPanda, Bowyer, Judge, Ankoku, Quivo, AlphaZealot, Xisin, Hunger, Lucky, Eggz,
stingers
Smash Obsessed
thanks mk o.o hadn't noticed
hiemie? dunno him. i'll add him any way.
hiemie? dunno him. i'll add him any way.
_clinton
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
- Messages
- 3,189
Utilt doesn't go into Uair or Bair at higher % though (and it is at around the time it would start to kill well with Uair)
And the horizontal range on it is very bad compared to other moves like it...still...it is safer (and still chances are breaks through/trades with everything)
Like I said...I'm on 50/50 with the dash attack...I really don't know if it truly needs the fix...because overall the main thing I try to hit people with is the 3rd hit...
At least we agree on Dsmash's current issues (even with the speed up and set up...it is worthless because of hit stun being bad)
Personally...I'd rather boost around the world to be faster if anything (walk the dog is ok overall w/o the set up)
I'd do this to them
Speed up both yoyos (Usmash comes out on frame 8, Dsmash comes out on frame 10...but that is just for the charge hit...not the main one)
They don't need to kill (which they don't unless you get a yoyo spike...and even then...that only works on certain situations)...they are defense moves (which are ok in vBrawl...however Brawl+'s speed boost makes me feel they both need to be faster if they can still find use)
As for the bat...it needs a power boost as I use it more...the tipper should at least outdo Marth's IMO
I still hate the short hop...and to be fair...if DJC is in like you say it is (granted I'm aware you've said it isn't done)...what is the point of Ness' short hop?
I love the Dair boost...it isn't broken at all...
I still think Ness needs a momentum boost if his air game is to be good in Brawl+'s environment...
Also...I wasn't kidding about Mario randomly freezing for online play after certain moves it seems (I'll admit I haven't tried it offline yet)
Revven
FrankerZ
It's a temporary sort of thing until we get DJC working properly *cough* Almas needs to fix it up *cough* and it does some nice things for Ness in the mean time (Fair and Dair are a bit better overall). I don't like the SH height much either but, it does make him a bit better for now (and apparently allows him to do decently well against a fairly decent MK). I have some Ness offline matches I'm gonna get up soon with the new stuff he has in 6/10 to show what I mean and I DO still get ***** pretty bad but, I have some nice stuff to show against MK.
Overall, he needs just some more work. He's almost there though.
_clinton
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
- Messages
- 3,189
I don't see how Dair is better overall because of a shorter short hop...but whatever...
I also personally thought Fair was just fine with Ness' normal hop (and that the main things that get buffed from this shorter hop are Bair and Uair)
But I'll say this...as long as Ness' short hop can jump over things like Sheik's needles, and Wolf's laser...I think I'm ok with it
_Yes!_
Smash Hero
So about making samus not suck...She needs her sex kick back. Bair and dsmash should be buffed too imo.
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
woah
woah
woah
woah
WOAH
Pimp Grimer and Pimp Dorf need to hang out some time.
On the issue of Samus, she is some we are looking at to decide how much help she needs, if any.
woah
woah
woah
WOAH
Pimp Grimer and Pimp Dorf need to hang out some time.
On the issue of Samus, she is some we are looking at to decide how much help she needs, if any.
Dair autocancels and hits the ground fast enough to land all kinds of stuff off of it with the stupid low SH.
I see the point of it, and it does make some of his aerials have some new uses. Not better uses, just new ones.
However, that SH height feels absolutely awful on Ness. I've found myself actually playing him less because of it.
Other than the yoyo buffs, and possibly momentum, I agree with everything _clinton said
I see the point of it, and it does make some of his aerials have some new uses. Not better uses, just new ones.
However, that SH height feels absolutely awful on Ness. I've found myself actually playing him less because of it.
Other than the yoyo buffs, and possibly momentum, I agree with everything _clinton said
sagemoon
Smash Lord
Is there any way to make it so that pit can go into fall mode (from WoI mode) by pressing airdodge or something. This will make it so that pit can grab ledges so he wont get gimped, but wont make his recovery OP.
_Yes!_
Smash Hero
nah nah nah shonz this is Pimp Muk! Don't be confusin him with his kids.
IMO if anything the sex kick is a necessity. I don't even main/use samus (in fact I hate using floaties) but she was the embodiment of sex kicking...
stingers
Smash Obsessed
naw....link was.
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,293
which set had falcon's gentleman? I wanna play around with that one when I go 2 my sisters house. she's got a wii and ima hax it and do all types of brawl+ shiz
jokey665
Smash Ace
Saying 'hax' and 'shiz' doesn't make you cool, fyi.
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,293
who said it did? now go back to watching your penguin porn. judgin me cuz im typin, this nugguh
stingers
Smash Obsessed
Doc had the inverse sex kick o.O he can't be the staple.
_Yes!_
Smash Hero
lol okay guys but in melee samus had the best sex kick. doc's was good but not as powerful.
imo sonic needs some buffs too he kinda sucks balls.
imo sonic needs some buffs too he kinda sucks balls.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
Link's Sex Kick > Samus' Sex Kick
IMO
Sonic is pretty good o.O he just needs some reliable way to kill.
IMO
Sonic is pretty good o.O he just needs some reliable way to kill.
Magus420
Smash Master
The hitbox on Link's melee n-air technically has infinite duration because they messed up programming it. Beat that.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
o.O
Explain.
I didn't know that part...I just knew it kicked ***
Explain.
I didn't know that part...I just knew it kicked ***
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,293
I can tell because if you SHFFL, it'll hit in his standing animation sometimes..is that why?
Magus420
Smash Master
The hitbox just hangs around attached to those limbs until he goes into a different animation, even after he goes into the normal falling position at the end of the move and after he can interrupt it. You can easily tell it wasn't intended and it just doesn't have a point set to have the hitbox end, and it's not like they didn't mess up other attack's hitbox timings. Ganon's n-air was timed wrong in v1.0 and the 2nd kick has the hitbox on it before that leg is even extended, and then when that leg does kick there's no longer a hitbox. That one was fixed in later versions though.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
Wow, interesting stuff o.o Thanks for the info magus
Guys, the Community Stage Pack released their 2nd beta.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=234992
Glitches edges are apparently fixed now. I haven't gotten to check it out yet, but this means it should be a clear go ahead to introduce them into the next Nightly for testing.
Guys, the Community Stage Pack released their 2nd beta.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=234992
Glitches edges are apparently fixed now. I haven't gotten to check it out yet, but this means it should be a clear go ahead to introduce them into the next Nightly for testing.
CountKaiser
Smash Lord
The purpose of a low SH was to emulate DJC, though now we can have the best of all worlds. However, I can concede that it is too low.
I still say Ness needs some kind of momentum. Not much, though. Maybe 110 or 115%.
As for utilt, it's nice, but I'd take other buffs over it, such as a yoyo buff.
In terms of buffing yoyos, Dsmash could be made into a good edgeguarding move, or maybe speed it up so that it's good at catching roll dodges. I have no idea what to do for usmash, though.
The dash attack is fine, if not schizophrenic. It's heavily reliant on the third hitbox hitting in order to pop them up for a bair or uair. While this hitbox doesn't always hit, it is still good to techchase with.
Fair is still stupid easy to DI out of, unfortunately. However, dair is pretty good now. Though I have been noticing that the sourspot has been hitting more often than usual. I'm not sure if it's because I'm using the move more or not.
The bat is in need of a power buff. A tipper bat should be more rewarding than a tipper fsmash from Marth.
Also, lol @ magus for Melee sillyness.
I still say Ness needs some kind of momentum. Not much, though. Maybe 110 or 115%.
As for utilt, it's nice, but I'd take other buffs over it, such as a yoyo buff.
In terms of buffing yoyos, Dsmash could be made into a good edgeguarding move, or maybe speed it up so that it's good at catching roll dodges. I have no idea what to do for usmash, though.
The dash attack is fine, if not schizophrenic. It's heavily reliant on the third hitbox hitting in order to pop them up for a bair or uair. While this hitbox doesn't always hit, it is still good to techchase with.
Fair is still stupid easy to DI out of, unfortunately. However, dair is pretty good now. Though I have been noticing that the sourspot has been hitting more often than usual. I'm not sure if it's because I'm using the move more or not.
The bat is in need of a power buff. A tipper bat should be more rewarding than a tipper fsmash from Marth.
Also, lol @ magus for Melee sillyness.
XSilvenX
Smash Lord
Fsmash is good for what it is already imo, not sure why buffing it would help Ness when it's not really the reason he fails.
All I can suggest is make the yoyos actually kill at reasonable percentanges like in 64 when they were amazing. I don't think upsmash needs a speed buff, I have no absolutely no problem getting that move to hit. The problem is the knockback. It just doesn't kill so it's not worth using.
As for dsmash..that move is just weird and even if it killed I wouldn't really rely on it for KO'ing because it's just too unsafe. An endlag buff would just make it hard to punish, wouldn't really help the move itself... Maybe try changing the trajectory so the move (if in front) hits you horizontal so it's worth tossing out for positioning purposes.
Kinda lame but that's just me.
I always hated the idea of playing on a generic stage builder stage even if it meant more variety in tournaments. I'd rather see people try to bring some of those amazing SSE stages into play.
All I can suggest is make the yoyos actually kill at reasonable percentanges like in 64 when they were amazing. I don't think upsmash needs a speed buff, I have no absolutely no problem getting that move to hit. The problem is the knockback. It just doesn't kill so it's not worth using.
As for dsmash..that move is just weird and even if it killed I wouldn't really rely on it for KO'ing because it's just too unsafe. An endlag buff would just make it hard to punish, wouldn't really help the move itself... Maybe try changing the trajectory so the move (if in front) hits you horizontal so it's worth tossing out for positioning purposes.
Ummm custom stages...?
Kinda lame but that's just me.
I always hated the idea of playing on a generic stage builder stage even if it meant more variety in tournaments. I'd rather see people try to bring some of those amazing SSE stages into play.
...SSE isnt happening soon. Or at all. :V
Considering we have no access to that partition AND we can recreate the stages with stage builder.
That and there are people who have completely cut off the SSE partition from their ISOs. :/
Rather than fault them for their personal preferences, go with the more a more rational decision that doesnt give the hacker team more **** to do when they have enough as it is. :V
Considering we have no access to that partition AND we can recreate the stages with stage builder.
That and there are people who have completely cut off the SSE partition from their ISOs. :/
Rather than fault them for their personal preferences, go with the more a more rational decision that doesnt give the hacker team more **** to do when they have enough as it is. :V
stingers
Smash Obsessed
Plus, you can texture hack Custom Stages. So, if there was a dedicated texture hacker, we wouldn't have to play on boring looking stages either.
I mean, I'm sure you could go to Kittycorp and find tons of people willing to help out lol.
I mean, I'm sure you could go to Kittycorp and find tons of people willing to help out lol.
D
Deleted member
Guest
the only problem is - (i don't recall if this is possible) can we put the homemade neutrals on a random selection?
Shell
Flute-Fox Only
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2007
- Messages
- 2,042
Let's keep stage creation discussion in the stage creation thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=234992
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=234992
Yes. Stages saved to the console are included in the random select. Stages on teh SD card are excluded from the random select.
Rion
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2008
- Messages
- 396
So, I played Brawl+ for a long time tonight. I'm a Zelda main (albeit, an average one) so playing with her in this new setting was really interesting. It was really fun and I'm really hoping to get a chance to play it again sometime!
But to stay on topic, some things I've thought about some changes for Zelda:
Zelda's grab has issues.
Standing Grab Frames Comparison
Zelda - 12 Frames
People who have a equal/slower standing grab than Zelda:
Link - 12 Frames
Toon Link - 12 Frames
Ivysaur - 13 Frames
Lucas - 13 Frames, but was sped up by 1.5x!
Zero Suit Samus - 16 Frames
Yoshi - 17 Frames
Samus - 17 Frames
Everyone else who is not listed, has a faster standing grab. From what it seems, everyone who has a equal/slower grab than Zelda are long range grabs.
It's a bit weird that a normal grab has the same speed as Link/ Toon Link's Hookshot grab. Even weirder, her running grab is 11 frames. If there's any chance for her grab to be sped up a bit, that would be nice.
At least to something a little more standard for a normal grab.
===
Her jab also is terribly slow to be called a "jab".
Startup: 1-10 <= Wut.
Hitbox: 11, 13, 15 (3 hits) <= More Wut.
Cooldown: 16-23
Compared to someone like Ganondorf's Jab:
Startup: 1-7
Hitbox: 8, 9
Cool Down: 10-34
But that got improved even!:
- Ganons jab frame 0: 3.5x, frame 20: .5x, frame 28: 3x
I think the utility of it is what confuses me a bit. It's not really good damage for it's speed(6%), it's knockback is mediocre(which is normal for a jab usually, but some jabs have decent knockback) not to mention it's rather flaky hitboxes... so what exactly is the purpose of this jab? At least if it was faster, for example, that would give it a clearer utility. I just feel that a good jab would help Zelda game a lot. Whether it's made faster or stronger or something, I feel like it warrants some sort of adjustment. This is just me though!
===
Those are the two things that seem to bother me the most. With just a small amount of tweaking, they could be much more useful. Hopefully, this isn't too unreasonable...
Sleeping time now though. It's way too late.
But to stay on topic, some things I've thought about some changes for Zelda:
Zelda's grab has issues.
Standing Grab Frames Comparison
Zelda - 12 Frames
People who have a equal/slower standing grab than Zelda:
Link - 12 Frames
Toon Link - 12 Frames
Ivysaur - 13 Frames
Lucas - 13 Frames, but was sped up by 1.5x!
Zero Suit Samus - 16 Frames
Yoshi - 17 Frames
Samus - 17 Frames
Everyone else who is not listed, has a faster standing grab. From what it seems, everyone who has a equal/slower grab than Zelda are long range grabs.
It's a bit weird that a normal grab has the same speed as Link/ Toon Link's Hookshot grab. Even weirder, her running grab is 11 frames. If there's any chance for her grab to be sped up a bit, that would be nice.
At least to something a little more standard for a normal grab.===
Her jab also is terribly slow to be called a "jab".
Startup: 1-10 <= Wut.
Hitbox: 11, 13, 15 (3 hits) <= More Wut.
Cooldown: 16-23
Compared to someone like Ganondorf's Jab:
Startup: 1-7
Hitbox: 8, 9
Cool Down: 10-34
But that got improved even!:
- Ganons jab frame 0: 3.5x, frame 20: .5x, frame 28: 3x
I think the utility of it is what confuses me a bit. It's not really good damage for it's speed(6%), it's knockback is mediocre(which is normal for a jab usually, but some jabs have decent knockback) not to mention it's rather flaky hitboxes... so what exactly is the purpose of this jab? At least if it was faster, for example, that would give it a clearer utility. I just feel that a good jab would help Zelda game a lot. Whether it's made faster or stronger or something, I feel like it warrants some sort of adjustment. This is just me though!
===
Those are the two things that seem to bother me the most. With just a small amount of tweaking, they could be much more useful. Hopefully, this isn't too unreasonable...
Sleeping time now though. It's way too late.
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