Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[CountKaiser]

The last 7 pages of Ness discussion was why I didn't want any changes included in the nightly for a while until I was done testing things.... It erupted into a massive flame war lol. =/

w/e lol.

I hope to try out the new djc lol.

That was all my fault when you think about it.

 

[Wingflier]

i want vids.

Here's a youtube video of him (Stealth Raptor) vs. Anther in a Pika mirror match about a year ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B76UxrxWFhM

I'm sure he's improved drastically since then. So if you can imagine...

Anyways its a bit off-topic sorry.

Wing

 

[_clinton]

Clinton, you aren't the only Lucas/Ness player, and most Lucas/Ness Players do not want VBrawl physics, including me.

Ok...might I ask why? If I can use history like you guys do...I'll point out again that overall Ness has been somewhat floaty in the past...and it seems like Ness is affected by the gravity greatly...Lucas only loses a good % of his PK Fire tricks like Ness that I've been *****ing about...but Ness loses even more than his fire tricks...try using some of Ness' aerial links that have been known to chain into 2 in one short hop (such as 2 Nairs in a short hop...before the short hop was shortened ok...not in this pack)

Plus I don't see why Ness can't be with vBrawl gravity...a simple momentum change would remove any of the issues from a normal short hop...and it would boost so much with just his normal full hop...far more than that 1.1x full hop gives...

 

[Shell]

_clinton, I'm not really sure exactly what's going on with Ness physics, but I've only heard positive feedback regarding Lucas's physics -- the gravity's only increased by a tiny fraction, with mainly an emphasis on a higher FF.

 

[stingers]

Lucas flows so fluidly and is just a perfect character in every way...besides the fact you get punished for aiming the PK thunder so perfectly it hits the ledge, but that's a minor grievance lol

 

[Mattnumbers]

The other things Ness can do with the physics he will have in the next nightly are much better than having PK fire tricks, just wait for it.

Lucas flows so fluidly and is just a perfect character in every way...besides the fact you get punished for aiming the PK thunder so perfectly it hits the ledge, but that's a minor grievance lol

Eh, I just with PK Freeze had a good use, other than that I'm perfectly happy with Lucas(+). And he is very balanced right now the WBR did a great job on him.

 

[_clinton]

The other things Ness can do with the physics he will have in the next nightly are much better than having PK fire tricks, just wait for it.

Well...I'll await with open arms then...because I hate several things he has right now (the short hop, Utilt boost, Dsmash boost come to mind)

And...I guess I am *****ing too much about Lucas' gravity...because he does have his better tricks still I guess...so I'm going to stop complaining about him...because overall I do like his changes...

 

[stingers]

PK freeze has a use...it's funny.

 

[_clinton]

PK freeze has a use...it's funny.

It still is overall worse than Flash IMO...but whatever...

 

[Me_Aludes]

I think Yoshi should be able to DJC too. He's average at best.

 

[Mattnumbers]

PK freeze has a use...it's funny.

That's why I said good use

 

[_clinton]

That's why I said good use

How would you make PK Freeze have a good use?

I personally would change it so that it starts low at Lucas' feet and then you can fire it up more vertically...as it starts off the move won't even hit Bowser standing still unless you charge it...

It also takes longer to set off a quick freeze compared to PK Flash (in both ways...cool down and warm up) but that doesn't bug me as much as the direction the move flies...

 

[Arkaether]

I'd leave PK freeze as is.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

I don't think they were discussing buffing the move, Ark. If Lucas needed buffs, PK Freeze is not going to be the thing to be buffed. xD

Out of curiosity, with Ness' DJC, is his SH going to return to how it was before?

 

[exfatal]

i'd say nerf Pk freezes impact.. so they dont fly as high when u freeze them.. instead they just fall down and stay ice'd

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

They currently don't go very high, so following up is quite easy. They still don't suffer any hitstun on release though, so you can hit the ice block and damage them and they can still hit you in the lag from your attack.

 

[Veril]

PK freeze has a use...it's funny.

this.

PK-Freeze is kinda cool on BF, where you can do all sorts of ledge-momentum tricks, but overall its his worst move.

How would you make PK Freeze have a good use?

Make it so that it doesn't put Lucas in free-fall. This would also help a ton with b-sticking wavebounced psi-m. Its such bs when you're ever so slightly off and you PK-freeze accidentally. It happens rarely since I've been b-sticking or a long time now, but when it does, its a stock.

At least it isn't sing. God... what a crap move. And just so everyone knows, ledge-canceled sing still isn't good. Sing only seems good until people realize how easy it is to escape from with button mashing and power-shield the rest... jerks.

I love Ganon's changes with the b-air... and everything. He's a delight to play now. I really don't think he needs anything more other than a use for his neutral-b, which simply cannot hit in any normal situation.

 

[FSLink]

Make it so that it doesn't put Lucas in free-fall. This would also help a ton with b-sticking wavebounced psi-m. Its such bs when you're ever so slightly off and you PK-freeze accidentally. It happens rarely since I've been b-sticking or a long time now, but when it does, its a stock.

Or if your hand slips up and you're trying to PK Fire back into the stage.
Yeah, definitely would be for removing free-fall.

 

[Plum]

There really shouldn't be fixes for human error.
It is completely a tech skill issue if you accidentally PK Freeze instead of a wavebounce Psi Magnet.

There are some ******** things the game does, like not having a true grab button causing shielding, or tilts on the C-Stick causing you to jump, but accidentally PK Freezing is something that is completely your fault shouldn't be changed.

If PK Freeze offstage had some potentially amazing use then that's one thing, but just because you mess up doesn't mean Brawl+ should be holding your hand in regards to your mistake.

 

[FSLink]

There really shouldn't be fixes for human error.
It is completely a tech skill issue if you accidentally PK Freeze instead of a wavebounce Psi Magnet.

There are some ******** things the game does, like not having a true grab button causing shielding, or tilts on the C-Stick causing you to jump, but accidentally PK Freezing is something that is completely your fault shouldn't be changed.

If PK Freeze offstage had some potentially amazing use then that's one thing, but just because you mess up doesn't mean Brawl+ should be holding your hand in regards to your mistake.

Agreed... though I think it could potentially find more edgeguarding and anti-edgeguarding uses if it could be used in the air without making you useless after using it. It would also allow Lucas mains to follow up after a successful freeze better...giving the move at least some use other than being a gimmicky kill move.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Lol, Veril and FSlink, don't even go there, trust me.

 

[Nybb]

I love Ganon's changes with the b-air... and everything. He's a delight to play now. I really don't think he needs anything more other than a use for his neutral-b, which simply cannot hit in any normal situation.

I just want to be able to double jump after SH bair again. But I have heard that that is already in the works. With that in, I don't really think we need to try to make warlock punch useful.

Just an idea though, would it be possible to make Warlock punch chargeable, sort of like Marth/Roy/Ike's neutral B moves? Or maybe just allow Ganon to cancel the current punch by shielding?

Also, we definitely need to replace Ganon's model with his Melee one once the model extractor thing is working. His Brawl model looks so stupid with the stubby legs and prom queen hair.

 

[Deleted member]

Make it so that it doesn't put Lucas in free-fall. This would also help a ton with b-sticking wavebounced psi-m. Its such bs when you're ever so slightly off and you PK-freeze accidentally. It happens rarely since I've been b-sticking or a long time now, but when it does, its a stock..

Try learning how to waveshine in Melee - this is and will always be a risk you take. I don't imagine the WBR will ever do what you propose. We can't be dumbing the game down because people are too lazy to learn finger dexterity.

 

[goodoldganon]

Also, we definitely need to replace Ganon's model with his Melee one once the model extractor thing is working. His Brawl model looks so stupid with the stubby legs and prom queen hair.

**** you, the Lion's Mane is the best part about Ganondorf. Besides man...he has CORNROWS!! I love the Brawl Model for G-dorf personally, but this is all off topic.

 

[rinoH]

i like the new side -b of wolf though i think it should have a little more knockback

 

[stingers]

Lmao

I fully support replacing the Brawl Ganon with the Melee one.

 

[Revven]

i like the new side -b of wolf though i think it should have a little more knockback

Which part are you hitting with? If you're trying to hit the sweetspot, try to hit with the best part of it you can. As far as I know, for some reason, there's like maybe a few hitboxes that send the opponent behind Wolf on the sweetspot while the rest of it should be as powerful as Falcon's knee.

 

[Kuga]

Lmao

I fully support replacing the Brawl Ganon with the Melee one.

No.Brawl Ganon Fat Pig Design will stay.

 

[stingers]

o.o

You're not allowed to make that decision!

 

[Kuga]

o.o

You're not allowed to make that decision!

But,but.....BRAWL GANON HAS TEH--

O o
/¯___________________________________
| DOCTOR OCTAGONAPUS!!!!!!!! BLAAAAAAAARRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!! !!!!
\_¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

 

[ToxiCrow]

this.

Make it so that it doesn't put Lucas in free-fall. This would also help a ton with b-sticking wavebounced psi-m. Its such bs when you're ever so slightly off and you PK-freeze accidentally. It happens rarely since I've been b-sticking or a long time now, but when it does, its a stock.

this looks familiar. . . . . i'd like if this happens, but if it doesnt then w/e

 

[cman]

Disregard.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

But...there's no point in delaying the second hit if you've already hit the first. They're in hitstun and can't do anything. Mindgaming isn't needed if they can't in any way block an attack.

 

[cman]

But...there's no point in delaying the second hit if you've already hit the first. They're in hitstun and can't do anything. Mindgaming isn't needed if they can't in any way block an attack.

Oh yeah. Well then I guess I don't know what he was talking about. I'll ask him later.

 

[VietGeek]

My toon link playing friend says that his fsmash got messed up. The first slash hits too far at higher percents to hit with the second unless you do the second immediately, so you can't wait a bit then activate the second one or it will miss. It removed the mindgaming potential the move had in vbrawl. I don't really know or care much about tlink, so I'm just going by what he said, but it might be worth looking at.

Ugh, I really hate to sound rude and elitist, but since I'm a natural at it, Imma do it (forward this to your friend, no relevance to you lol):

1st hit in vBrawl had no 'mindgame' potential. Really, I don't understand how making it escapable and giving you nearly 5/6 seconds of vulnerability is anything but a mindgame to yourself. There is almost no reason to use the move unless you're at the ledge where you can possibly push them off if they shield. Anyone decent can DI up and footstool you out of it, leaving you exposed with roughly 48-50 frames of lag. Or you can get Dolphin Slashed/Luigi UpB (Fire Dragon Punch or something)/shined out of it.

Yeah, you basically rewarded Marth/Luigi more than you did yourself. GGs?

It has no stun and tons of winddown lag (as said before), so you could do **** like this both in vBrawl & Brawl+ on the old fsmash:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1JDfKvOerA&feature=channel_page#watch-vid-title

Yeah good mindgame potential. That suicide will totally screw with your opponent for the rest (puns) of the match mirite? If the first hit connects, there is NO mindgame potential in EITHER game. You either connect with the second, or you whiff and get punished. If the first misses because they spotdodged, then there's no problem with its "mindgame potential" because you can try to connect the 2nd one instead.

I admit, the fix creates new problems like you can't connect if you hit with the 1st hit near the ledge, or if you space the first hit well, it pushes them too far for the second, but it fixes the biggest problem (leaving Toon Link easily exposed and being punished for landing a move).

Other than making Toon Link's 1st hit fsmash like Link's, the current fix is probably the only way to fix it. The move is badly designed and this is better than that trash "mindgame" move in vBrawl.

EDIT: I was semi-ninja'd. Tatsuman only robbed me halfway. D=

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

There really shouldn't be fixes for human error.
It is completely a tech skill issue..

B+ gave zelda the ability to forward b multiple times in the air.
why? i dont know. but i bet the excuse will be
"because she needs it"
or
"learn to di"
two very popular things i see.

 

[Revven]

It's not like her having the Din's Fire no fall special change did a whole lot to her game... it really doesn't add a whole lot. The best its use has is to push her a little closer to the stage more horizontally but, even then, it barely goes anywhere so... I don't know why you should be comparing that to PK Freeze... =\

You really don't like Zelda do you, Skip? ROFL! (I don't blame you ;p).

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

It's not like her having the Din's Fire no fall special change did a whole lot to her game... it really doesn't add a whole lot. The best its use has is to push her a little closer to the stage more horizontally but, even then, it barely goes anywhere so... I don't know why you should be comparing that to PK Freeze... =\

You really don't like Zelda do you, Skip? ROFL! (I don't blame you ;p).

well, to be honest i dont, but usually some things are done and just dont make sense like din fire to the pk-specials and the reason for buffing a good character, idk, but then at the same time it isn't deemed to give any benefit(or much beneficial purpose) but when it could help another character with the same problem its looked down upon.
im not supporting or bashing either argument, i just like saying stuff

 

[Plum]

well, to be honest i dont, but usually some things are done and just dont make sense like din fire to the pk-specials and the reason for buffing a good character, idk, but then at the same time it isn't deemed to give any benefit(or much beneficial purpose) but when it could help another character with the same problem its looked down upon.
im not supporting or bashing either argument, i just like saying stuff

Obviously some things seem pointless, but there is more reasoning behind Din's Fire then PK Freeze (at least to my knowledge) It does give her a small horizontal boost and can, though probably rarely ward off some gimp attempts.

Where as with PK Freeze the reasoning is to correct human error. For all I know PK Freeze could become a useful offstage tool and maybe the fix could be warranted to be tested out, but the current reasoning makes even less sense then other "pointless" tweaks.

 

[ToxiCrow]

It does give her a small horizontal boost and can, though probably rarely ward off some gimp attempts.

PK freeze gives Lucas a small horizontal boost as well, and it too can probably rarely ward off some gimp attempts.

just pointing that out. but like i said earlier, i dont really care if it doesnt get put in. i dont use him that much anymore