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Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)
- Thread starter shanus
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Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
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- 1,293
a lot of posts back, "human error" was also a factor in giving her the forward b stuff. (prevent dinfirecides or somethin)
Tbh, I think Zelda should be put in the same boat as lucas/ness with the Dins Fire/PK Freeze/Cross boat. :V
I don't see why Zelda should get it when the mother boys shouldnt, and she was already a better character than Ness (dunno about Lucas)
But that's just me.
I don't see why Zelda should get it when the mother boys shouldnt, and she was already a better character than Ness (dunno about Lucas)
But that's just me.
ToxiCrow
Smash Ace
lol i was trying to say that awhile ago and a bunch of people just got upset about it. i'm glad some other people are starting to see this
It's not like she needs it. If anything its better for her than the mother boys because she can use it to protect her recovery from above teh stage, and it gives her a little horizontal momentum while saving her incase she side b's off the stage.
All it would do for the mother boys is save their ***** when they accidentally the stage.
I dont know, maybe my logic is broken or something.
All it would do for the mother boys is save their ***** when they accidentally the stage.
I dont know, maybe my logic is broken or something.
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
- Joined
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yes times two.
but like, because of logic, it does make sense that if zelda gets it, ness and lucas should too. personally, i dont think either of them should get it/even have it. although, if zelda gets it the pk boys should have it too. or maybe the reason for zelda getting it in the first place was biassssssss
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
Back when I brought this up I was way outnumbered.
I would just like to say that I do support this buff, because really, it doesn't help that much. Sure it corrects human error but is that really that bad? I mean, all it does is keep people from killing themselves occasionally, it makes the game more enjoyable. Plus it could possibly give PK freeze some new use.
EDIT: IIRC, wasn't one of the main reasons behind not removing random things in moves because they didn't break anything and they added more fun to the game?
I would just like to say that I do support this buff, because really, it doesn't help that much. Sure it corrects human error but is that really that bad? I mean, all it does is keep people from killing themselves occasionally, it makes the game more enjoyable. Plus it could possibly give PK freeze some new use.
EDIT: IIRC, wasn't one of the main reasons behind not removing random things in moves because they didn't break anything and they added more fun to the game?
ToxiCrow
Smash Ace
lol Matt
it can be used to protect you when coming back on-stage. i mean, its not like it'll make him a better character. i dont think Zelda's sideB buff makes her any better
_clinton
Smash Master
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- Dec 5, 2006
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I don't see why you are going to attack just Zelda...when there are other characters with changes to their free fall...
DK-NSpecial=I don't know why...I have ideas...but I really want to know...
Pit-Uspecial=This seems pointless because you could avoid it by attacking anyway...but whatever
Ike-Fspecial=I see the point
Lucario-Uspecial=I see the point...although I don't see how much he needed it
Ness-Uspecial1=I see the point...and to be fair the buff does more than just buffs his recovery...so I'm even better with it and don't want to go back to vBrawl because of this sex ^_^
Yoshi-Fspecial=I don't know why...does "bucket brake" still work in Brawl+?
_Yes!_
Smash Hero
spacies shouldn't go into free fall after side b?
(joking but hoping people agree xD )
(joking but hoping people agree xD )
Well DK's is different. His is a neutral B so its hard to accidentally do it off stage. It's used for combos. His isnt a projectile, so its not like he can use it to protect his recovery, and it doesnt aid his recovery at all. :V
stingers
Smash Obsessed
I don't know how many times I can say "Lucas is perfect the way he is." before people will get it. <.<
Seriously he doesn't need any changes at all. Unless you wanted to give his PK Freeze a use, but that's...minor.
Seriously he doesn't need any changes at all. Unless you wanted to give his PK Freeze a use, but that's...minor.
PK freeze doesnt need a use the way lucas is. I agree giving it a purpose would add depth to lucas, but then he'd need something to trade for it.
Want to give Lucas' PK freeze some use? Offer up something he has of equivalent or greater use to trade for it. :V
Want to give Lucas' PK freeze some use? Offer up something he has of equivalent or greater use to trade for it. :V
stingers
Smash Obsessed
Is this really the way balancing characters works? Lol. This sounds like some sort of drug deal between a homeless dude and a big black guy.
But uh, I think I'll pass...
But uh, I think I'll pass...
I'm still wondering how PK Freeze/Flash not going into freefall offers any sort of benefit at all...
Seriously, the entire argument I've seen for this is "Well, THEY have it. We want it now too!"
It wouldn't break the characters or anything, there's just no point. Both moves have exactly zero utility offstage...
Seriously, the entire argument I've seen for this is "Well, THEY have it. We want it now too!"
It wouldn't break the characters or anything, there's just no point. Both moves have exactly zero utility offstage...
stingers
Smash Obsessed
...What would doing that accomplish? Who said that? GAH I need to bust some skulls.
All it would do is uh...prevent accidental deaths offstage, and if you're dumb enough to use it offstage that's your fault. Lol, they don't have ANY utility offstage...at all.
All it would do is uh...prevent accidental deaths offstage, and if you're dumb enough to use it offstage that's your fault. Lol, they don't have ANY utility offstage...at all.
That's not the way balancing characters works no. Really, its nothing but my lone preference. If you want to add utility to x move, and your character is considered "good", trade (nerf) something else on your character in exchange for the addition of whatever utility you desire, and give reasoning (logical reasoning) as to the purpose of such a trade. Get mainers of that character to back yourself up and there you go.
More depth for your character. :V
Nybb
Smash Journeyman
That sounds incredibly painful.
Edit: So anyway, when do we get to see this magical DJC for Ness? It sounds incredible. It was basically Ness' only redeeming feature in 64, and I'm stoked to see it come back. I hope it is also being considered for Yoshi.
_clinton
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
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- 3,189
Well...it may have been the only redeeming feature but hey...at least Smash 64 had a very open and intuitive metagame
Also...would it be crazy asking for Raptor Boost to reflect projectiles?
stingers
Smash Obsessed
...How does that work?
"Hey, if I dive at this laser with my fist, the laser will turn around!"
"Hey, if I dive at this laser with my fist, the laser will turn around!"
_clinton
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
- Messages
- 3,189
Falcon is just that manly...
Plus...I don't see what is wrong with giving another use to Raptor boost...the move already just flat out destroys low grade projectiles (Mario's fireballs)
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
Since it's Captain Falcon it actually makes perfect sense.
Not really. It would make much more sense if it reflected before even touching him.
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
My bad, good call.
Chemical reactions, focused light, psychic power...they all run from Captain Falcon.
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
How about giving PK Freeze a use in exchange for PK Fire doing 1 or 2% less damage? However, until you can actually edit PK Freeze as a projectile there's not much you can do for it, but just saying, that would be a tradeoff I would agree with.
timothyung
Smash Ace
Actually if you want depth, buff every character by making every one of their moves useful.
Though this will not likely happen
Though this will not likely happen
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
The problem with that timothyung is that some characters don't have useless moves, so they wouldn't get buffed.
wow...........Yoshi gets ****ed by footstools way to hard.......it seems so easy now..................
I've been playin yoshi for a while and I didn't have any trouble until I played a friend today and he footstooled me 3 times in a row. 2 of those times I was trying to gimp HIM with nair. ( Still close of course, his **** combo's are just well.....****......)
Can't you just make it so like every time Yoshi goes into tumble he gets his 2nd jump or map footstools to a button so it takes skill to use or something? Right now, footstools are just pissing me off.
Edit:......................................
Maybe I should just vent and go back to my other characters.
I've been playin yoshi for a while and I didn't have any trouble until I played a friend today and he footstooled me 3 times in a row. 2 of those times I was trying to gimp HIM with nair. ( Still close of course, his **** combo's are just well.....****......)
Can't you just make it so like every time Yoshi goes into tumble he gets his 2nd jump or map footstools to a button so it takes skill to use or something? Right now, footstools are just pissing me off.
Edit:......................................
Maybe I should just vent and go back to my other characters.
...Not really. If I buff all of marth's throws equally, I'll still use Dthrow over bthrow because it was buffed as well. That and its a buff, not a trade off. More depth comes from trade-offs than straight up buffs. :VActually if you want depth, buff every character by making every one of their moves useful.
Though this will not likely happen
Depth, imo, is when a character's options all provide some sort of function that isnt overshadowed and there are times where each move can be used more efficiently than others. There are character's with more depth than others, but hey, that's okay really. Shallow characters are bound to exist. :V
Not really. Every character in the roster has at least a single move that they don't include in the metagame effectively making the move, for the lack of a better term, useless. :V
By that I mean, when you can use that move, there is usually something different and better at doing what you want to do.
Only character that I can think of that might not have a useless move is Link but then again, how often do links use Bthrow?
timothyung
Smash Ace
That's not the real problem, because even MK has useless moves. Or at least extremely situational ones, like Warlock Punch. The problem is Brawl+ started as balancing characters by nerfing the good ones and buffing the bad ones, so you can't suddenly buff all the characters. IIRC someone said that the WBR wanted to buff every character, but they didn't do it.
Neko, by making every move useful I mean that no moves are out shadowed. Though trading off is also a way to do it, somebody will be whining "OMG they nerfed that move! OMGOMG"
stingers
Smash Obsessed
I would gladly make it so that using PK Freeze automatically gives Lucas 50 damage and puts him in a Jigglypuff Rest State if you would speed up the rate PK Fire comes out at
Well, not much of a trade off. It couldn't make me use PK Freeze any less, certainly. xD
timothyung
Smash Ace
I thought it was already sped up?
You want more?
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
I vote they make it so PK freeze appears and detonates at every possible place you can put it to instantly whenever you hit B.
Dude that plus 2% less damage on PK fire, totally neutral tradeoff.
EDIT: the sped up PK fire was removed sadly.
Dude that plus 2% less damage on PK fire, totally neutral tradeoff.
EDIT: the sped up PK fire was removed sadly.
How often does ANYONE use B-throw. I can't think of many character who actually have a good one besides DDD and maybe a few more.
Also @ tim- Getting rid of everyone's useless moves is just a waste of time. Who cares that some characters have moves that dont play a big part in their metagame? Why take the time to try to buff every characters useless moves and risk screwing up balance when you can just, you know, balance characters by playing off the traits and abilities that make them good. This project is already very time consuming and it would be a huge step BACKWARDS if we were to try and change every character. A small change can make a big difference.
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