Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[Magus420]

And mine was an example of maintaining combos while cutting back some of the hitstun, while also playing into speeding up the overall pace of the game.

 

[Demacrez]

Just did some tests. WITHOUT DI, Mario will live until 106% from a Dair in the middle of Final Destination. One jump into the air, Mario will live until about 124% from a Uair. "Weaker," faster characters have better KO moves than that.

Maybe reducing the lag and the power to compensate? Not by much though.

Or give certain other attacks a power boost to compensate?

 

[JCaesar]

If we increased fullgrav and compensated downgrav to keep fall speeds the same (just make it so characters reach the pinnacle of their jumps faster) then we could reduce hitstun a bit, speed up gameplay a bit, and make combos less EZ overall without destroying the staple stuff.

Just sayin...

Edit: **** Magus ninja'd me. Oh well, +1 to his idea.

 

[Revven]

If we increased fullgrav and compensated downgrav to keep fall speeds the same (just make it so characters reach the pinnacle of their jumps faster) then we could reduce hitstun a bit, speed up gameplay a bit, and make combos less EZ overall without destroying the staple stuff.

Just sayin...

Edit: **** Magus ninja'd me. Oh well, +1 to his idea.

Well, we need to discuss it amongst the others.

 

[stingers]

i think it's fine how it is now really...

 

[shanus]

that would require a pretty large overhaul of moves to be truly feasible

 

[iLink]

Honestly I think it's fine as is now.

DI helps.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

It's fine how it is now. >.>

 

[Mattnumbers]

Couldn't we just increase game speed X1.05 or something since PSA can do that iirc.

 

[Strong Badam]

that's artificial speed, not actual speed.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I really don't see a problem with it. >.> This doesn't have to be completely melee-fied, you know.

 

[PKNintendo]

I am also a current fan of Brawl+.

If we want to make it faster, I suggest we branch of said project into another testing section. Said testers can report back to use with videos, and see if it's still the same.

 

[timothyung]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7325362&postcount=2

 

[JCaesar]

I didn't mean a large overhaul, just a subtle little change to make things a bit less EZ and require better timing. If movesets have to be reworked, that would be too far imo.

 

[stingers]

bowser can crawl over diddys nanners

lol fix that ****

 

[Mattnumbers]

bowser can crawl over diddys nanners

lol fix that ****

I think that it's intentional

 

[timothyung]

Is there a code to make sure Olimar's Pikmin fall as fast as he does when fast-falling under higher downward gravity? Fast-falling during 1.5 times downward gravity scatters the Pikmin and tears up Olimar's recovery VERY badly, to the point where it's just so near unusable.

Worth looking into?

 

[cookieM0Nster]

bowser can crawl over diddys nanners

lol fix that ****

wow. shoudve had some more testing lol.

And I still cant get over JC Shine, good job.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Bowser still is a mediocre character, even with that ability to crawl over diddy's nanners. I mean the diddy can just go over and whack him while he's trying to crawl over the nanners. >.>

 

[stingers]

nope bowser is a good character now...and he like hard counters diddy LOL

if u get him offstage any any % he's dead because diddy CANNOT (literally) make it past firebreath with his terrible recovery. without recovering super high anyway but LOL at that. you know how that will end up.
one throw at 0% will kill diddy because his throws have such good BKB
he is unnaffected by naners while crawling...even thrown ones

lol

its so good. i love it.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

well leave it. it's a part of his character (well, not really, but still). The diddy just needs to learn other tactics besides banana spam.

 

[GHNeko]

Good. Diddy has a hard counter in the form of a heavy.

:V

 

[stingers]

umm...

yea u dont know what your talkin about. (@ sage)

anyway...i dont have a problem that bowser beats diddy so bad i'm just sayin he does. i think its funny.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Yes I do. It's not my fault you guys removed autosweetspotting, so diddy's recovery sucks now. That's your problem.

And I like bowser, so yeah >.>

 

[cookieM0Nster]

I think that it's intentional

Lol, I don't think so.

And that ability is just a side effect of the super armor on his crawl.

 

[PKNintendo]

Good. Diddy has a hard counter in the form of a heavy.

:V

I believe that's called Irony.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Wait...why did you guys even put superarmor on his crawl in the first place? O_o

 

[JCaesar]

Diddy > MK > Bowser > Diddy. Perfect.

No but seriously, there's no way that Bowser hard-counters Diddy. That's just dumb. His crawl may have super armor but his attacks don't. Diddy still gets guaranteed free damage/grabs with his nanners. And as for the firebreath edgeguard, lrn2SDI and save your jump (which a good Diddy will do anyway). I know for a fact that Zelda can lightning kick Bowser in the middle of his firebreath so I'm sure Diddy can manage something... now if you were talking about Charizard's firebreath, that might be a legit complaint. His is far tougher to get through.

Stingers I challenge you to show me a video of a good Diddy getting wrecked by a good Bowser.

 

[PKNintendo]

Diddy > MK > Bowser > Diddy. Perfect.

No but seriously, there's no way that Bowser hard-counters Diddy. That's just dumb. His crawl may have super armor but his attacks don't. Diddy still gets guaranteed free damage/grabs with his nanners. And as for the firebreath edgeguard, lrn2SDI and save your jump (which a good Diddy will do anyway). I know for a fact that Zelda can lightning kick Bowser in the middle of his firebreath so I'm sure Diddy can manage something... now if you were talking about Charizard's firebreath, that might be a legit complaint. His is far tougher to get through.

Stingers I challenge you to show me a video of a good Diddy getting wrecked by a good Bowser.

Bananaless Diddy?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I wouldn't be surprised if diddy could SDI out of the fire, double jump up, and side b bowser in the face.

it's just a matter of saving your jump, which you should ALWAYS be doing in the first place.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

I wouldn't be surprised if diddy could SDI out of the fire, double jump up, and side b bowser in the face.

it's just a matter of saving your jump, which you should ALWAYS be doing in the first place.

Of course Bowser could shield/spotdodge that, grab Diddy, throw him off the stage, and keep going over and over again.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Or the diddy could just time it right and mindgamez... Just don't fail at recovering. it's like link.. sucky recovery, but it IS doable, no matter what you say.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Or the diddy could just time it right and mindgamez... Just don't fail at recovering. it's like link.. sucky recovery, but it IS doable, no matter what you say.

Oh, I didn't say that Diddy was bad. I simply said, that in that situation, Bowser would be better than Diddy. However, I actually think that Diddy is better than Bowser.

 

[Hyrus]

Of course Bowser could shield/spotdodge that, grab Diddy, throw him off the stage, and keep going over and over again.

Firebreath has a lot of startup/end lag. Theorycraft more.

 

[Finns7]

Im not with the updater I had to do it manually -_-

Anyway Captain falcon should get looked at, His knee sweetspot is to big, It connects if your by his back, its called the reverse knee not the lower back electic **** explosion. He has hella setups and lowerd raptor boost plus less friction bottom line it needs to be changed.

Zeldas bthrow is total hax, the upthrow to upair is gone but when it was there it was rediculous on heavys and fastfallers. Now the bthrow is rediculous that move should not be killing or setting up kills (most heavies and fastfallers have **** recovery anyway). Zelda has hella kill setups and combos that rack up damage really fast. She is light and cant be comboed that well cant really be edguarded that easy because she dissapears and when she reappears she is not as vulnerable as she was in vbrawl a weakness, but now not so much. In certain matchups zelda can do alot of stupid effortless things and bthrow is just going to make **** easier.

Did you guys even consider doing something to sheiks fsmash?

Ok Bowser changes, I like these throw changes better, Im not with that low angle high kb **** its EZ mode

 

[RyokoYaksa]

About Zelda's uthrow/bthrow changes...

Do you want to die when you have 60 damage from anywhere on the stage, or 120ish damage depending on horizontal position? Her bthrow is not hard to DI to lessen the threat of its KO power significantly. Even the prospect of getting grabbed by her is still fuzzy since her grab takes a lot of effort to land.

Sheik's Fsmash had a slight KB/damage reduction, but that was an old change that's been set in the BR build for a while.

 

[PKNintendo]

Im not with the updater I had to do it manually -_-

Anyway Captain falcon should get looked at, His knee sweetspot is to big, It connects if your by his back, its called the reverse knee not the lower back electic **** explosion. He has hella setups and lowerd raptor boost plus less friction bottom line it needs to be changed.

Zeldas bthrow is total hax, the upthrow to upair is gone but when it was there it was rediculous on heavys and fastfallers. Now the bthrow is rediculous that move should not be killing or setting up kills (most heavies and fastfallers have **** recovery anyway). Zelda has hella kill setups and combos that rack up damage really fast. She is light and cant be comboed that well cant really be edguarded that easy because she dissapears and when she reappears she is not as vulnerable as she was in vbrawl a weakness, but now not so much. In certain matchups zelda can do alot of stupid effortless things and bthrow is just going to make **** easier.

Did you guys even consider doing something to sheiks fsmash?

Ok Bowser changes, I like these throw changes better, Im not with that low angle high kb **** its EZ mode

Whats wrong with Zelda's throws? Ness backthrow's killer. Spread the love son. She is light yes, but that means she dies early too. Her Recovery is still pretty in B+, getting her is easy.

There is nothing wrong with her Backthrow.

 

[Magus420]

The knee has already been reworked to use 2 smaller hitboxes instead. It will be in the next release. A smaller hitbox on his knee, and another one around his upper thigh/hip area.

 

[Finns7]

Ryoko upthrow was **** on heavies and fastfallers, the only heavy who prob wont get ***** by this change are prob D3 and snake (<---he is going to have to work to get back onstage). This is brawl+ but it still has some brawl mechanics. It is not That hard "to get in" she can dtilt into any form of **** she disires and her upsmash combos rack damage on fastfallers and heavies hella fast. She is very capable of puting on 50% in seconds and getting in a grab soon after is not that difficult. And iirc most heavies and fastfallers dont always have the best recoverys so ya, why does she need this change? Without it is she not viable?

Ryoko with the old kb i didnt really care for fsmash. I had a problem with the feel, at times you can fair and as there being sent flying you can run and cancel in a fsmash freezing them and then kicking the out. Idk how you can justify a move like that canceling a chars momentum...maybe she teleported and held him in place O_o I DONT KNOW but that **** doesnt feel right, If it connected at a certain range regardless of DI I wouldnt mind but as long as I can DI dont take away my options.

Can someone tell me if bowsers wieght gravities were changed?

Why cant we completly redo snake and remove the tilts invisible hitboxes? Backroom you basically redid bowser, alot has changed. Lets be real here snake prob isnt going to win a major brawl+ tourney anyway, and Im talking going through the WHOLE way. he gets countered hard if you have a gimping edguarding char. For one he shouldnt be so heavy. Its not like we dont have the tools.




WHAT THE HELL DOES NESS HAVE TO DO WITH ZELDA...that is all, her recovery is still pretty in b+, what the hell does that mean? She dies earlier but this is b+, you have to combo her, she is light and not that easy to be comboed if you play someone who knows how to DI, yet she can combo, combo into kills, recovery is invisable and when she reaapears its faster. Not saying she's all around OP or OP in general but some matchups are really tooooo easy theres no way you can even say bthrow was NEEDED for zelda to be VIABLE.

Mango thx

Ryoko bthrow prob wont kill kill (ikefsmash) but it sets it up EZ really its no different from upthrow in my eyes, I mean seriously you can "meteor" your foe without sweetspoting because of dair to footstool -_-......thats just silly

 

[PKNintendo]

Ryoko upthrow was **** on heavies and fastfallers, the only heavy who prob wont get ***** by this change are prob D3 and snake (<---he is going to have to work to get back onstage). This is brawl+ but it still has some brawl mechanics. It is not That hard "to get in" she can dtilt into any form of **** she disires and her upsmash combos rack damage on fastfallers and heavies hella fast. She is very capable of puting on 50% in seconds and getting in a grab soon after is not that difficult. And iirc most heavies and fastfallers dont always have the best recoverys so ya, why does she need this change? Without it is she not viable?

Ryoko with the old kb i didnt really care for fsmash. I had a problem with the feel, at times you can fair and as there being sent flying you can run and cancel in a fsmash freezing them and then kicking the out. Idk how you can justify a move like that canceling a chars momentum...maybe she teleported and held him in place O_o I DONT KNOW but that **** doesnt feel right, If it connected at a certain range regardless of DI I wouldnt mind but as long as I can DI dont take away my options.

Can someone tell me if bowsers wieght gravities were changed?

Why cant we completly redo snake and remove the tilts invisible hitboxes? Backroom you basically redid bowser, alot has changed. Lets be real here snake prob isnt going to win a major brawl+ tourney anyway, and Im talking going through the WHOLE way. he gets countered hard if you have a gimping edguarding char. For one he shouldnt be so heavy. Its not like we dont have the tools.




WHAT THE HELL DOES NESS HAVE TO DO WITH ZELDA...that is all, her recovery is still pretty in b+, what the hell does that mean? She dies earlier but this is b+, you have to combo her, she is light and not that easy to be comboed if you play someone who knows how to DI, yet she can combo, combo into kills, recovery is invisable and when she reaapears its faster.

Mango thx

Ryoko bthrow prob wont kill kill (ikefsmash) but it sets it up EZ really its no different from upthrow in my eyes, I mean seriously you can "meteor" your foe without sweetspoting because of dair to footstool -_-......thats just silly

Okay, stop making your post... suck.
Too cluttered for my taste.

There is nothing wrong with Snake at all.
You complained that Zelda's backthrow was to cheap, yet Ness has the same Backthrow pretty much. Her recovery was terribad in vBrawl and isn't much better now. Zelda isn't overpowered. Your description also fits Peach/Jiggs.