Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[Deleted member]

Its solely dependent on actionIDs right now, and I would have to do a pretty ghetto fix for that to maybe work (99% odds it will fail though). Do you know how many frames from the start of his doublejump that he has his heavy armor?

10charfixed

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Honestly, I can't find the frame data for the super armor. I dunno why no one has recorded it before, everyone has just done the hitboxes. ._.;

the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few

or the one

 

[Yingyay]

or we can remove footstooling.

being 100% serious here

Solves everything

 

[Deleted member]

guise to perfectly balance the game we should removed every character except for mario

being 100% serious here

Solves everything

seems like a good idea to me

 

[Alphatron]

The problem I have with the wifi stage is not the sandbag.

Rather its the camera. It closes in on the players so much that it goes to the point where I can't estimate how long the stage is.

This. The sandbag isn't the only problem here. It's effect on the camera that it has. The characters too. I don't mind if sandbag gets kicked again. Final Destination 1.5 or not.

Anyway, my only real complaint is the SSS. It's pretty random and the control test stage is terribad.

Luigi's Area(I refuse to call it Deadlands) is alright with the mansion back. It would be perfect if the mansion had less HP(easier to break). It's hard to say how I feel yet. Luigi's Area was basically an FD ripoff with different music and 2 platforms.

Also, spear pillar will never be competitive. Taking out the pokemon doesn't change that.

 

[Yingyay]

The new SSS is pretty great. Everything is in order and all the casual stages are on another page. But I set my random stage select so it doesn't phase me.

 

[Deleted member]

Luigi's Area(I refuse to call it Deadlands) is alright with the mansion back. It would be perfect if the mansion had less HP(easier to break). It's hard to say how I feel yet. Luigi's Area was basically an FD ripoff with different music and 2 platforms.

I'd personally prefer it if it was frozen and with a bit more HP.

 

[PanzerOceania]

This. The sandbag isn't the only problem here. It's effect on the camera that it has. The characters too. I don't mind if sandbag gets kicked again. Final Destination 1.5 or not.

Anyway, my only real complaint is the SSS. It's pretty random and the control test stage is terribad.

Luigi's Area(I refuse to call it Deadlands) is alright with the mansion back. It would be perfect if the mansion had less HP(easier to break). It's hard to say how I feel yet. Luigi's Area was basically an FD ripoff with different music and 2 platforms.

Also, spear pillar will never be competitive. Taking out the pokemon doesn't change that.

don't mind if the sandbag is removed again, other than that

wrong

wrong

and wrong. Deadlands is fine, and Spear Pillar is a good friendlies level WITHOUT the pokemon, with it it's just useless to play on. All these stages provide variety of scenery, slightly different boundaries and edges, and variety of music.

also I think the Stage Selection Screen is great, keep it.

 

[Eight 52]

the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few

or the one

I'm just going to go cut myself in a corner now.

 

[Deleted member]

We really need to start addressing Kirby - right now he's easily top 3 and I wouldn't be surprised if he's best in Brawl+. Why does he have so much priority

 

[cobaltblue]

1) Side-effect of the SSS code? (Which I will be releasing a guide for, thanks to Yeroc)

2) Why are you picking 75m in the first place?

Because I like selecting random in friendlies so that I can play wifi stage?

 

[5ive]

I just came 5th in a Brawl+ tourney using the newest set. Firstly, it's either ROB is too good, or Holy is too good. Maybe both. But to get on a serious note:

A fellow player, Minus, told me to post some of his thoughts on Kirby. First, Kirby's dthrow, up air, re-grab at low percents is ****. His real input actually came from Kirby's bair having a weird disjointed hit-box at some points. He wants to know if this is known or why it is happening. His Kirby baired me a whole Pika body width's away, vertically speaking and ultimately cost me the set.

Secondly, Pika's dthrow isn't actually that bad. I can't say it proved effective, but I also can't say it was useless. Though it obviously needs some tweeking, it wasn't as useless as I first thought. I can follow up with up air in some cases.

Also, many of the people in my area (Toronto) put Brawl+ down because they had no idea what the handicap/buffer option did. This lead them to leave it at zero, consequently messing up their game and made Brawl+ feel wierd. I know you guys can't fix that through a nightly build, but just saying.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Also, many of the people in my area (Toronto) put Brawl+ down because they had no idea what the handicap/buffer option did. This lead them to leave it at zero, consequently messing up their game and made Brawl+ feel wierd. I know you guys can't fix that through a nightly build, but just saying.

i love using no buffer. brings back memories of melee, but with brawl ICs....

 

[timothyung]

Tell them to switch to 100% to be safe

 

[GPDP]

Hmmm, I think I have an idea on how to deal with people not knowing what handicap does.

Perhaps we could get a custom loading screen with text that explains how buffer works and how to modify it, so once the game boots up, people will know.

Just throwing that out there.

 

[5ive]

@ FrozenPopo: I thought Melee had 2 frames of buffer, hence the Melee players in my area using 20% and saying it felt perfect. 0% Doesn't do much for you except stop you from doing double fairs and rising attacks... and that's an understatement.

Hmmm, I think I have an idea on how to deal with people not knowing what handicap does.

Perhaps we could get a custom loading screen with text that explains how buffer works and how to modify it, so once the game boots up, people will know.

Just throwing that out there.

That's a perfect idea.

 

[FrozenHobo]

0 buffer = attacks come out when i tell them to.

 

[GPDP]

I thought Melee had 2 frames of buffer, hence the Melee players in my area using 20% and saying it felt perfect. 0% Doesn't do much for you except stop you from doing double fairs and rising attacks... and that's an understatement.

No, Melee didn't have buffer. What it did allow you to do was perform aerials immediately after jumping, which Brawl does not let you do on zero buffer. So it makes sense that at 2 buffer it's low enough to not feel its side effects, but large enough to do immediate aerials with relative ease, hence why Melee players might think it feels good. 1 buffer also works, but it's way too strict a window, and some attacks, such as Ganon's thunderstorm, are quite hard to perform consistently.

 

[5ive]

Well it is obviously preference, but it just restricts you from many important tactics and attack options; again, rising attacks and double fairs, lasers etc.

@GDPD: aaah I see. Brawl physics acting out again. Also, on the proposed "how to use the buffer system" screen, it should show 20% as a recommended setting for a Melee player, and 100% as a recommended setting for a Brawl player. Then after, add something on the lines of, "customize/change for your personal preference" or whatever.

Something as simple as that would appease both communities to make Brawl+ feel as comfortable to them as possible.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I've had to explain what buffer is to so many people........ugh, I get so sick of it.

Anyways is it possible to make it say Buffer instead of Handicap?

 

[FrozenHobo]

also, 5ive, double fairs doesn't really do anything for me when IC's fair takes forever to complete. double bairs, maybe, but i can still do that with 0 buffer easily.

 

[5ive]

also, 5ive, double fairs doesn't really do anything for me when IC's fair takes forever to complete. double bairs, maybe, but i can still do that with 0 buffer easily.

I used that as an example. You know what I mean; stop being situational. In regards to you being able to do double bairs on 0 buffer: Cool, I'm glad that it's easy for you to perform. If it feels good to you, that's all that matters. Might I remind you that you aren't the only one who plays Brawl+.

I was just mentioning that many of the people said Brawl+ felt really weird on 0 buffer, even to the point where they assumed Marth couldn't double fair, and Falco couldn't SHDL.

 

[FrozenHobo]

I used that as an example. You know what I mean; stop being situational. In regards to you being able to do double bairs on 0 buffer: Cool, I'm glad that it's easy for you to perform. If it feels good to you, that's all that matters. Might I remind you that you aren't the only one who plays Brawl+.

I was just mentioning that many of the people said Brawl+ felt really weird on 0 buffer, even to the point where they assumed Marth couldn't double fair, and Falco couldn't SHDL.

lol why are you getting so upset?

 

[5ive]

lol why are you getting so upset?

Not really upset. I just get annoyed at flawed logic :/. Nothing personal.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Not really upset. I just get annoyed at flawed logic :/. Nothing personal.

i was just a little confused by this part:

Might I remind you that you aren't the only one who plays Brawl+.

i mean, the other stuff i was saying earlier regarding the WWR would justify saying something like that... but just saying i can play with 0 buffer...i'm not sure i see the reasoning? not trying to start anything, i just wanted to clarify it.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Good news for you 5ive, a new throw solution is in the works for Pika that doesn't strip him of combo options.

Also, I was kind of hoping that we could modify the default settings modifier so that handicap is automatically on 100 when you get to the select screen. Most people who dont know what handicap does will just leave it alone, so it'd be better so as not to offset new players. I can't imagine buffer throwing anybody off-guard since most people expect it from Brawl anyways.

People who know what it is are free to change it and tell players who don't know, and two unsuspecting players who get into it aren't going to get disgusted right away. Because honestly, no buffer is a lot more frustrating to deal with.

 

[GPDP]

Too bad there's no option on the current default settings modifier that sets the default buffer.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Good news for you 5ive, a new throw solution is in the works for Pika that doesn't strip him of combo options.

Also, I was kind of hoping that we could modify the default settings modifier so that handicap is automatically on 100 when you get to the select screen. Most people who dont know what handicap does will just leave it alone, so it'd be better so as not to offset new players. I can't imagine buffer throwing anybody off-guard since most people expect it from Brawl anyways.

People who know what it is are free to change it and tell players who don't know, and two unsuspecting players who get into it aren't going to get disgusted right away. Because honestly, no buffer is a lot more frustrating to deal with.

that would be great. you could do that by editing the default settings modifier, right?

 

[5ive]

Too bad there's no option on the current default settings modifier that sets the default buffer.

For now, I think the Buffer Screen during start up would be the ideal solution.

 

[Dan_X]

I have a question regarding future nightly builds: Can we expect to see a code that makes recovering from spikes more difficult (or impossible in some scenarios)? As it stands now, there's little to no reward for landing a spike (which is generally difficult to land) as the enemy can easily spam Up+B and instantly recover from the spike. Now I wouldn't mind, but spikes are tactically implemented kill moves, the key word being "kill." They're supposed to be finishers--- or have been known to be, yet they are so easily countered. Countering them isn't a matter of skill, as spike can be seen coming, and once this is the case, the player can spam until they counter it. This is particularly problematic for characters like Falco who rely on said moves to kill. Aside from spiking the enemy, his other more reliably kill move is Bair. It'd be nice if his spike was more difficult to circumvent.

I do recall seeing some mention that a code was wanted to fix this... is there still a want for such a code? What do you guys think?

Spikes are generally still effective at higher percents as at least the person plummets faster.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Also, I was kind of hoping that we could modify the default settings modifier so that handicap is automatically on 100 when you get to the select screen. Most people who dont know what handicap does will just leave it alone, so it'd be better so as not to offset new players. I can't imagine buffer throwing anybody off-guard since most people expect it from Brawl anyways.

Then people will start asking, "why is my handicap set to 100%?", then you say that it's just setting the buffer to how it is in Brawl, then they'll ask, "what's buffer?" Then you are back having to explain what buffer is (unless you take the rude approach and say, "it's nothing; just play!!") XD

As for the meteor smash/spikes, I personally think it's a little strong. Isn't it even easier to meteor cancel in Melee? (But I could be wrong...)

 

[Wander]

I like the idea of making spikes stronger since they do seem way too easy to escape even at around 60 or 70 where they ought to be killing, and for characters like Marth or Toon Link where you pretty much have to land it perfectly or you fall to your death, there's not enough of a reward. However, I think impossible to escape is going too far. I don't really know how to modify these kinds of things myself, so I don't know exactly how it could be done, just tossing some ideas in there.

 

[GHNeko]

Then people will start asking, "why is my handicap set to 100%?", then you say that it's just setting the buffer to how it is in Brawl, then they'll ask, "what's buffer?" Then you are back having to explain what buffer is (unless you take the rude approach and say, "it's nothing; just play!!") XD

As for the meteor smash/spikes, I personally think it's a little strong. Isn't it even easier to meteor cancel in Melee? (But I could be wrong...)

If they ask, tell them it controls buffer. If they ask what buffer is, get someone else to explain or say you don't know.

I basically tell people to set their handicap to 100, if they ask why, I say, "So you wont suck."

:V

 

[Swordplay]

I wish I could literally just texture hack the Character Selection Screen and replace handicap with buffer.

( Probably impossible but it would be great )

 

[FrozenHobo]

i had some friends ask what the buffer did once (our buffers were 0, 100, and 212).

i said "0 is for melee, 100 is for brawl."
friend: "so whats over 100?"
me: "still brawl. except you look like an idiot for setting it so high."

 

[GHNeko]

FrozenPopo has never spoken as much truth in a single post. LOL. I would start setting my handicap at 300% but I'm already below 100, moving from 70 to 60, and possibly to 50 soon. Dunno. :V

And Swordplay, considering we pretty much have access to nearly all the textures, I dont think its impossible LOL.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Isn't it impossible to set your buffer to a number that isn't divisible by 10? How would he have 212?

 

[FrozenHobo]

he just failed THAT HARD. no, really though, i was just approximating the number. i know it was close to that though.

 

[GPDP]

I suppose now's as good a time to ask as any.

Now that we're getting individual hitstun and a more robust launch power modifier, is there any reason to keep the dgrav modifier? Why not just stay with overall gravity to tweak character gravity settings, and use the dgrav slot for something else, like character weight?

Increasing dgrav separately from overall grav is what makes jumps in Brawl+ feel so awkward at the moment (characters fall considerably faster than they rise). The only reason we've had to rely on it for so long is because increasing overall grav on some characters has detrimental effects on their recoveries, and thus dgrav is increased to halfway speed them up, as well as for making characters like Bowser slightly floatier in order to decrease their comboability.

But with the new codes, both concerns will effectively be non-issues. And so, instead of increasing dgrav, we can opt to increase fgrav, and adjust jumps, short hops, and recoveries to compensate for added ugrav, resulting in faster jumps that are consistent on the way up and down, not to mention we would now rely on individual hitstun settings instead of dgrav to handle comboability.

Getting rid of dgrav would leave us with two unused slots on the Jump/Grav Values code. I propose the dgrav slot be refitted into handling weight modifications, while the other one could be used for individual hitstun or friction.

Any objections?

 

[Thunderhorse+]

i said "0 is for melee, 100 is for brawl."
friend: "so whats over 100?"
me: "still brawl. except you look hardcore for setting it so high."

Fixed.

10HXCs