Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[FrozenHobo]

don't have any custom music though. also, i don't have CSPs either. i'll try running 4.1 and see if it still does it.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

yoshi is good, just take out footstooling lol

 

[Eight 52]

Oiy, not wanting to get rid of footstools. I just want to make it so you can't footstool the super armor. Yoshi can still be footstooled after the SA frames and and during normal jumps. Like I said, Super Armor isn't very super if you can stop the momentum by tapping someone's head.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Like 150 pages ago I mentioned that in the eyes of the community the three worst characters were Ness, Bowser, and Yoshi. Ness and Bowser have since been helped but I dropped Yoshi because all people did was link to vids of Lord Karn -_-

Personally I still think he needs help.

Also as a side note I would love to see someone texture hack "handicap" into "buffer" and maybe even change 10-100 to 1-10.

And I would love to see footstool mapped to a different button.

 

[Yingyay]

Weird. I haven't had that problem before. It's always been a result of being too wild when entering the CSS, where clean button inputs work fine...

Could it be a result of the new file replacement code?

It has to be the new file replacement code because this happens to me as well. And I never had a problem like this for at least 5-6 nightlies

 

[CountKaiser]

I'm personally not exactly sold on a character being fine because someone can use the character well. If this were the case, Taj, Gimpyfish, and Malcom would have proven that Mewtwo, Bowser, and Sonic were fine respectively.

And yes, please map footstool to a different button.

Edit: I, too, have been getting random freezes with the new nightly. It normally happens when I chose FD, and I have custom music for the stage.

 

[goodoldganon]

Oiy, not wanting to get rid of footstools. I just want to make it so you can't footstool the super armor. Yoshi can still be footstooled after the SA frames and and during normal jumps. Like I said, Super Armor isn't very super if you can stop the momentum by tapping someone's head.

It would have to effect everyone's SA frames to work, considering it was something we even wanted to do. I've footstooled a good Yoshi maybe 3 or 4 times while he was recovering...ever. It's really an over exaggerated problem. I'd argue it's more likely to happen in teams and FFAs since they are more chaotic, but still...

Argue for something else Yoshi would need, cause I'm being frank when I say the problem is blown out of proportion.

 

[Yingyay]

Yoshi's fsmash can stand to be a little stronger. It feels weird landing one at 130% and the opponent just floats back on the stage. But this is from my week of using Yoshi so....

 

[stingers]

karn dropped yoshi because he felt he wasn't tournament viable. I feel the same about Lucas. Im just gonna play ROB and Fair wall all day

 

[CountKaiser]

What's wrong with Lucas?

 

[stingers]

no aerial range. like I said in the lucas thread, it's like making marth's sword the size of shiek's needle. it's silly how bad he gets shut down by people like peach and marth that can just camp the air and laugh when lucas tries to approach.

he NEEDS a hitbox on the ropesnake D: but apparently that can't be done. ugh

 

[FrozenHobo]

now that the infinites have been removed, would it be possible to get a grab range increase for the ICs?

 

[Yingyay]

Ewww a grab range increase? Why?

 

[Mattnumbers]

Stingers have you used the ropesnake in the air when not near a ledge? Its not much larger at all than fair.

And since there are no infinites I actually thing a grab range increase for IC's would be good. It lets them keep a scary grab game. I don't play IC's though.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Ewww a grab range increase? Why?

because as it stands they're grab range is just slightly better than vbrawl c. falcon.

 

[stingers]

It's would also be disjointed and lagless. It makes it safe move to approach with. Lucas NEEDS that. Fair gets you ***** if you miss (and it's very easy to miss with because it has no ****ing range), and from the look of it Ropesnake would have much more range then Fair anyway.

 

[Jimbo_G]

because as it stands they're grab range is just slightly better than vbrawl c. falcon.

If the Ice Climbers get a grab range increase before Mario, I'm snapping some necks. >__>

 

[Mattnumbers]

Lucas's strength is edgeguarding anyways, not aerials.

Most of his combo's are mixes of low aerials to ground moves and most of his killers are ground moves as well.

Although I'm hoping for some changes as well.

 

[Deleted member]

we can't increase grab range. simple as that

 

[stingers]

paprika, any news in the world of adding hitboxes?

or could you work around it by like...moving a hitbox from one move to another? can that be done? @.@

im sure theres some clever way to do this.

 

[CountKaiser]

This may be ignorant, but I was under the impression that Lucas was initially a ground-based character?

We have the tools, why not work with that?

 

[stingers]

what? hell no he is not. as much as uh...marth or peach is. lol

 

[SymphonicSage12]

agreed with stinger. Lucas has autocancel nair, uair, bair meteor, dair meteor; but most importantly, nair is a ****ing unstoppable combo starter.

 

[Mattnumbers]

agreed with stinger. Lucas has autocancel nair, uair, bair meteor, dair meteor; but most importantly, nair is a ****ing unstoppable combo starter.

Wait.....agree with stingers or me?

 

[Deleted member]

haven't looked into adding hitboxes yet. there is still a lot I can do with the hitboxes we have.

 

[stingers]

if you can like...just move one of lucas's nair hitboxes to his zair and then make them both bigger to compensate. that'd be cool.

or if you can add a completely new hitbox, that'd be cool.

he just NEEDS a zair hitbox to be competitive.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

he just NEEDS a zair hitbox to be competitive.

This has got to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Stingers, I don't agree that he NEEDS it to be competitive, I mean sure it would be a nice buff but I feel he can already be viable.

EDIT: I agree with tatsuman it's pretty ridiculous to say that Stingers.

 

[Deleted member]

I can't move hitboxes between attacks
that would be the same as adding 1 hitbox and removing another.

 

[goodoldganon]

Brawl+, like vBrawl, is built upon a counterpick system. It is one reason many of us are ok with the lower learning curve then Melee. You can't win matches with just one character. Find people to counterpick Marth and Peach. Lucas is a solid character. He combos well, kills well, and builds damage well. Just because a few characters shut him down doesn't mean he needs buffs. Buffs to help his lack of range then start to further adds to his favorable matchups.

TL:DR Pick a secondary to cover Lucas's weak matchups.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Brawl+, like vBrawl, is built upon a counterpick system. It is one reason many of us are ok with the lower learning curve then Melee. You can't win matches with just one character. Find people to counterpick Marth and Peach. Lucas is a solid character. He combos well, kills well, and builds damage well. Just because a few characters shut him down doesn't mean he needs buffs. Buffs to help his lack of range then start to further adds to his favorable matchups.

TL:DR Pick a secondary to cover Lucas's weak matchups.

GoG, I do feel that characters that were as good as or better than Lucas have been given buffs before. I personally feel like he should have some tradeoffs but there are a couple things that I think should be changed.

PK Freeze (Its possible now)
Magnet (hitbox is the size of the animation)
Better Throws

One nerf would be give PKT1 a more forgiving angle since I know some characters really struggle with that.

Really for those things I don't think too many nerfs are needed, because I feel that while Lucas was good a couple months ago, he has fallen behind the curve due to other characters getting better. Not to say that he is the worst or nonviable, I don't see how stingers can think he is.

 

[stingers]

yay more gimicks

 

[goodoldganon]

Many characters are getting there throws looked at, much to my distaste. Though you can argue 'It's not really a buff if everyone is getting it' it's still something to consider. You should also talk to Mauser about tradeoffs. He never shuts up about the Kirby F-smash one. Tradeoffs aren't nearly as good as many of you think they are.

Either way, his throws are being looked at. I still stand by my point to pick up a secondary that covers his weaknesses because whatever buff/tradeoff he is getting won't start to cover his weakness against disjointed hitboxes.

EDIT:

yay more gimicks

This is basically what I mean when tradeoffs aren't as good as they would seem. It's exciting for a while to have a new tool, but then you start to realize you wish you had the other solid attack back instead of being left with two average attacks.

Tradeoffs really only work for characters who are right on the border of being too good. For example, the WBR deemed Kirby to be a little too strong, but did not warrant a change like Marth got. So we nerfed his best killer and made his worst move at least not a waste. N-air is still bad and F-smash still kills, but we felt it helped balance him out.

 

[stingers]

saying "sorry if someone can hard counter your characterwithout much formal experience with them, pick up someone else" is one of the reasons we switched away from brawl o.O

DK being the biggest example

 

[Mattnumbers]

The only hard counter for Lucas that I can think of is G&W, and that's only 70:30, not like some of DK's matchups in vBrawl

 

[stingers]

lol dawg go play a good peach

pk fire spam the whole time is not ****ing fun

 

[Jimbo_G]

You think Lucas has no range? Try maining someone like Mario. Mario doesn't have crap against how much range Lucas has. How does he deal with charaters like Marth? He doesn't. Or, at least not very well. Range is one of Mario's glaring weaknesses. Against someone like Marth you camp, you play defensively, and you wait for that golden moment for them to make a mistake. If you try to attack like him, Marth's range beats you in every aspect. Either realize Lucas is not a ranged fighter, or counterpick. That's why my Secondary is Wolf and not Squirtle. =/

 

[Mattnumbers]

lol dawg go play a good peach

pk fire spam the whole time is not ****ing fun

It being fun doesn't matter, what matter is if you can beat peach with it, and since peach has to AD to avoid it when low floating (which forces her to the ground) its a good tactic. Peach is not a Lucas counter, I would say it's a peach advantage though.

 

[Alphatron]

Game hasn't frozen for me yet, but I haven't tried online. lol @ Basic brawl when playing Brawl+ though.

And you're saying that Lucas isn't competitive because he lacks aerial range? Seems like it unless I'm misunderstanding something. Because according to this logic, every character lacking aerial range isn't competitive, including Kirby.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Game hasn't frozen for me yet, but I haven't tried online. lol @ Basic brawl when playing Brawl+ though.

And you're saying that Lucas isn't competitive because he lacks aerial range? Seems like it unless I'm misunderstanding something. Because according to this logic, every character lacking aerial range isn't competitive, including Kirby.

Although I agree with you, Kirby most definitely DOES have aerial range.