Brawl+ Ness (SEVENTEEN ****ETY THREE)

[Alphatron]

He does. It's another way to summon him aside from typing out his name.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

OH REALLY?

Seriously, it was my CT up until Blind convinced me to stop doing it...

(for like 2 days lol)

EDIT: I don't namesearch my name...

 

[Dajayman]

CT?

10CT?'s

 

[PKNintendo]

It's been a while since I B+ with a friend of mine (we spent the whole day getting back into the game) and wow...

Ness is to awesome. I'm sorry but his buffs just rocks.
Like he's just to fun to play, and I rarely play as anyone else in Brawl+.

(although I've taking a liking to Zelda, she's pretty fun too)
His main complaint were numerous though.

Him: Why does PK Flash not suck, what happened to grab releases, why is Ness better~end johning. But to be honest, those complaints didn't last for long and he LOVES the new Marth.

It was mostly a fun day yesterday. 3 cheers for Ness!

 

[CountKaiser]

Then perhaps you, or someone else, could help me.

I've been using Ness for a while, and for a while, I've wanted to bring him out in a tourney match.

However, I feel that my skill with Ness is so far below G&W's that I can't confidently bring him out to a serious match.

I've been trying to figure out why this is. I think it may be because I'm simple getting stale and predictable with Ness. Mainly, my approaching is horribly predictable and I'm at a loss as to how to change it up.

What I'm asking for is tips on how to change up my Ness so that I can keep people on their toes, as well as how to approach in a manner so that people aren't always expecting me to move in with a fair.

 

[Dajayman]

Pretty much all of Ness' aerials are good approaches (Unless the opponent uses a sword, which means fair is your only approaching aerial... :/), dash attack works well and pops up opponents nicely, dash grab has very nice range and can set you up for various situations (dthrow for tech chase, fthrow for edgeguard, uthrow for aerial juggling, bthrow for kills)/ or you can force your opponent to approach you by SMARTLY using Ness' projectiles.

Mix it up. Use those mindgames sir. XD

 

[Alphatron]

I need help with the Peach matchup.

You can't safely jab Peach becuase Ness' jab sucks and Peach's jab can interrupt it just by the opponent button mashing. I already know that you should never recover from low because Peach will keep you from doing so(it's usually unintentional because my jump button does not always repsond when zap jumping). Dash attack normally combos into itself. PK Thunder is pretty useless due to every single one of Peach's aerials out prioritizing it (though maybe I'm still used to using it in vbrawl gravity/hitlag where I had to to circle it without my opponent just airdodging/attacking through it).

Maybe I just need to learn to DI the dash attack. Though what would be the safest direction to DI it without giving her followups into other things?

 

[Dajayman]

Honestly, I haven't figured out the Peach matchup myself with Ness. Peach just so happens to be my kyptonite. Don't tell anyone.

 

[CountKaiser]

I'm not sure why you're trying to jab Peach in the first place.

As for the dash attack, I can't rightly say. Looking at the angle, I'd say try to DI in towards Peach so that you get sent upwards, then either try to nair, PSI Magnet, or simply take the next hit.

I haven't fought a Peach in a while, though.

 

[Dajayman]

Peach is annoying because her aerials are some of the only sets aerials that can challenge and sometimes beat out Ness'. Air battles can be tough vs. Peach and the air is where I spend most of my days. :/

 

[PKNintendo]

Despite having a grab release on Ness the matchup in vBrawl was actually easier. Peach's buffs really put her on a whole other level.

I suggest counterpicking to her bad stages, Rainbow cruise is a great stage for Ness due to Peach's poor horizontal recovery.

 

[CountKaiser]

Peach has poor horizontal recovery?

......lolwut

 

[JCaesar]

Peach had buffs?

......lolwut

 

[Alphatron]

I think he meant to say vertical.

Aside from dsmash, fthrow buff, fair hitbox buff(not sure why she needs the reverse hitbox but okay!), and the fsmash change, I don't really know any of Peach's brawl+ changes.

DI'ing up seems to work at higher percents. At low percent, I go for the SDI towards or away from Peach. On the first hit anyway since that one doesn't put you into tumble at any time.

 

[VietGeek]

Peach had buffs?

......lolwut

Were you bribed with a one-night-stand by his truly to say this?

It's okay, we're all gay for him anyway. And his Usmash.

 

[JCaesar]

Who? What? Huh? Why do you always speak in riddles?

Most characters have gotten buffs of some kind but Peach is definitely on the lower end.

 

[Alphatron]

Physics changes helped her out like they helped Falcon.

 

[CountKaiser]

Who? What? Huh? Why do you always speak in riddles?

Most characters have gotten buffs of some kind but Peach is definitely on the lower end.

It's vietgeek, what do you expect?


As for peach help, I asked vanz about this, and he stated that Ness should essentially camp fair on Peach and try to be defensive. Keep her in the air to prevent her from pulling turnips, and get her off the edge to attempt edgeguards.

Zapjump is very helpful for this as recovering low results in turnip gimps. If you need to recover to the ledge, try to PKT2 downwards towards it.

As for keeping her off balance, be careful of her nair when comboing her, as it is a good string breaker.

So essentially, don't be too aggressive. Just play carefully and go on the aggressive only when you can get the chance.

EDIT: Almost forgot, be wary of her juggling you, as Ness is easily juggled. If you need to get down, try either a FF fair, or time a psi magnet to tank a hit and push her away.

If you can avoid being gimped, you should be able to outlast peach, since a lot of her kills seem to come from edgeguards and gimps. She's light, so dair to uair works well on her, and bthrow also works rather well.

 

[PKNintendo]

I mean't vertical.

And I'm not complaining but I DO think B+ is msd strong. Physics chsnges (like Lucas) helped her immensely.

 

[CountKaiser]

What do you mean by msd strong?

 

[Alphatron]

He meant to say mad. The "S" button is next to the "A" button on a keyboard. Yeah, Peach is a really good character. I need to fight more of them though.

EDIT: Almost forgot, be wary of her juggling you, as Ness is easily juggled. If you need to get down, try either a FF fair, or time a psi magnet to tank a hit and push her away.

The fact that you've listed this as a viable strategy leads me to believe that the SA magnet has worked for you?

 

[Dajayman]

I hate Peach. She's sexy, but annoying to fight. :/

 

[CountKaiser]

He meant to say mad. The "S" button is next to the "A" button on a keyboard. Yeah, Peach is a really good character. I need to fight more of them though.



The fact that you've listed this as a viable strategy leads me to believe that the SA magnet has worked for you?

Well, I've begun to experiment with it, and I've found that it makes for one of Ness's best string breakers, as nair will normally trade hits with something, and this will give Ness breathing room.

My success with this, though, has been limited and it requires more experimentation on my part.

Also, a lot of what I stated comes from what Vanz told me, my limited experience, and some theory-smash of my own.

 

[thesage]

so what does Ness do now? I played one match at Pound 3, but besides that I haven't played brawl+ since like october or something... What's happened

Also what's happened to brawl+ overall? Did they reduce the hitstun and speed up the gravity by now?

 

[Arcade]

Woah thesage, haven't seen you around in a while.

*Would like to hear the answers to those questions too*

 

[CountKaiser]

so what does Ness do now? I played one match at Pound 3, but besides that I haven't played brawl+ since like october or something... What's happened

Also what's happened to brawl+ overall? Did they reduce the hitstun and speed up the gravity by now?

Well, the hitstun was reduced a tad, but the gravity remains the same.

As for what ness does, he does what he did before, spacing with fair and pressuring shields with djc silliness. Said silliness can also lead to some awesome djc uair combos, as demonstrated by tatsuman. Also, zapjump is so good.

Right now we're talking about the Peach matchup, and the potential usefulness of PSI magnet. What we need are more Ness+ mains so that we can advance his metagame some more.

 

[Arcade]

Installin'.

Kinda funny, you say there aren't many Ness+ mains but Ness's thread here has 2-5 times as many posts as anyone else. lol

Edit: The updatifier has awesome music

Edit edit: I can't wait to see how utterly brain-dead the AI will be, lol

 

[CountKaiser]

Well, active Ness mains include me, Dajayman, PKNintendo, Tatsuman, Alphatron, and Matt4300. I'm not sure if Delorted still uses ness as his main, he might.

Either way, doesn't hurt to have more rep.

As for the number of posts, take a look through them all and marvel at the ***** *** ness meme.

 

[JCaesar]

^ How many times did you use Ness in the tourney a week ago, Mr. "Ness Main"?

That's what I thought

 

[matt4300]

Well, active Ness mains include me, Dajayman, PKNintendo, Tatsuman, Alphatron, and Matt4300. I'm not sure if Delorted still uses ness as his main, he might.

Either way, doesn't hurt to have more rep.

As for the number of posts, take a look through them all and marvel at the ***** *** ness meme.

I dropped ness for mario... but I still play him from time to time.

ToT I'm SO SORRY NESS!!! Mario needs my help more than Ness does.. Ness is a pretty **** good char... Mario has some serious problems..

 

[CountKaiser]

^ How many times did you use Ness in the tourney a week ago, Mr. "Ness Main"?

That's what I thought

<_<

Still use him in friendlies, at least, so that makes me, if nothing else, a Ness user, lol.

 

[thesage]

That's like me saying I main Ness in melee lol.

 

[_clinton]

I would count for a main if online counted for anything I guess.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

I'm hopping between Ness, Zelda, Sheik, and Marth right now. But that's because my secondaries are schizophrenic, and likely will be until I can find a steady stream of Brawl+ tournies near Oklahoma. Still main Ness though.


Also, I'm convinced that PSI Magnet is situational to the point of near uselessness. Its push doesn't seem to send far enough to gimp many recoveries with the massive snap distance and recovery hitboxes in play. The super armor also doesn't seem to help consistently, though it is a nasty little trick to pull out every once in a while.


Anyone found any decent uses to prove me wrong? Please? xD

 

[_clinton]

Nope, why'd we get that over unlimited PKT1 again?

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Because Infinite PKT1 was just a tiny bit ********? xD

 

[CountKaiser]

I'm not sure anymore. I never thought it was a good replacement, and always thought it to be useless and a bit odd.

Cape wanted it to try and promote some variation with Ness. I saw what he was trying to do, and I commend his efforts. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to have worked out.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Why hasn't it worked out? Ness is a phenomenal character, and he's incredibly fun to play as well.

For him being as ******** as he was in 5.0, I believe we got off easy (Unlike our reputation). He didn't have to go through the period of massive suckage after his period of being overpowered like many others did.

He's actually fairly well balanced now. He has combos from DJC to fairly ridiculous percentages for being guaranteed. He has an aerial that leads to a guaranteed grab at any percent, as well as throws that kill, combo, tech chase, and position well, and a spike with the highest base knockback in the game (sourspot kills just as well as the spike).

If the kill percentages drop to around Melee levels, Ness will be something to fear. Get hit with a DJC uair, and you're halfway to dead by the time he stops ramming his massive head into your sternum. >_>

 

[CountKaiser]

I'm talking about PSI magnet not working out, not the rest of ness.

Magnet aside, Ness is awesome.

Reason why PSI magnet hasn't really worked is that while it has it's uses, they seem so few and far between that they can be difficult to identify.

That does not, however, say that the magnet is useless. It's simply not as useful as we may have hoped.

Also, the sourspot of dair got a BKB reduction a while back.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

I actually suggested a sourspot nerf back before Ness was 5.0broken, but got written off. Glad to see that was implemented. As late as 6.0 however, kills with it are not too uncommon. Its angle is just mean.


Magnet is awful, but it has at least a few more uses then Sing. We can take a bit of comfort in that, I suppose. xD