Brawl+ Ness (SEVENTEEN ****ETY THREE)

[PKNintendo]

Does the attack look different or something? And are you serious? Half the Smashers here don't know what PK Flash does? Am I reading that correctly?

It looks bigger. (cause it is!)

Yes it's true. Someone complained that PK Flash was too strong. (apparently they never got hit by it in vBrawl. -_-) A brawl+ Ness main used it and hit and killed the opponent loads of times.

They said that they got hit by that move loads of times, yet they still won.

 

[_clinton]

Still can't see why I'm the only one who hated losing unlimited PKT1...

 

[Uffe]

It looks bigger. (cause it is!)

Yes it's true. Someone complained that PK Flash was too strong. (apparently they never got hit by it in vBrawl. -_-) A brawl+ Ness main used it and hit and killed the opponent loads of times.

They said that they got hit by that move loads of times, yet they still won.

I lol'd. Someone complaining an almost useless attack being strong. Apparently they've never been hit by it in Melee, either. XD People shouldn't QQ if they get hit by PK Flash but still end up winning the match. At least it's useful for once.

 

[PKNintendo]

I lol'd. Someone complaining an almost useless attack being strong. Apparently they've never been hit by it in Melee, either. XD People shouldn't QQ if they get hit by PK Flash but still end up winning the match. At least it's useful for once.

I know... Dude you should totally get B+. It's so much funner.

Come, join the darkCool side.

 

[Deleted member]

@_@

Do we want my fair, tweaked of course, or do we want Shanus's fair?

I'm horribly confused. T_T

no we dont want ur redundant change

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Count_Kaiser .....shanus said for us to set something up for him to try out.....i say we take your build and u take off the fair size increase on it and we have him try that when he gets back from being busy


clinton: honestly i would love to see infinite pk thunder 1 again(and i know other swho would too), but to tell u the truth giving buffs/nerfs to characters not only tips character balance....its also very political...

I would be all for a return of infinite pkt1, but i think the established idea right now is that ness is to have no buffs to his recovery....even tho i believe the need for character templates to be completely nonexistant, Ness is to fit into the template of being good offensively and bad at recovery


but yeah COUNT_KAISER....i say just alter the fair on your build, make psi magnet drop faster, and then let shanus use it

 

[Lil'E]

Ok...about Unlimited PKT1 being removed...
The buff PKT has for general right now affects both PKT1 and PKT2...
However, the thoughts for PKT2 is that it doesn't help the move that much in general

Where were you when it was first removed? I almost wanted to go bat**** insane and thought of every feasible reason as to why the removal was... for lack of a better word "unjust". I still bring it up every now and then, but they seem dead-set on keeping it out. Kinda gave up since I was the only one complaining about the changes at the time. I'd rather it than spring time breeze magnet in all honesty though.

 

[PKNintendo]

The reason it was removed was because it wasn't fair to Ivy and Olimar. Plus Ness has some new recovery options to compensate.

I also went bat**** crazy.

 

[PKNintendo]

Count_Kaiser .....shanus said for us to set something up for him to try out.....i say we take your build and u take off the fair size increase on it and we have him try that when he gets back from being busy


clinton: honestly i would love to see infinite pk thunder 1 again(and i know other swho would too), but to tell u the truth giving buffs/nerfs to characters not only tips character balance....its also very political...

I would be all for a return of infinite pkt1, but i think the established idea right now is that ness is to have no buffs to his recovery....even tho i believe the need for character templates to be completely nonexistant, Ness is to fit into the template of being good offensively and bad at recovery


but yeah COUNT_KAISER....i say just alter the fair on your build, make psi magnet drop faster, and then let shanus use it

Well said.

 

[Lil'E]

I'm just going to throw this out there.

I know not every throw a character has is great. But... Ness is/was known for his throws (except those IC are probably more notorious). Up throw has no use. The only reason to use it is for an uair kill which is set up much more easily from a dair, uair, fthrow, or dthrow. You can't combo from it. Trying to PKT1 juggle with the removal of Inf. PKT1 is just a bad choice. The damage it deals doesn't even justify using it.


A lot of characters have had throws adjusted for better set-ups so I see no reason why his Uthrow can't/shouldn't get the same treatment.

 

[Uffe]

I know... Dude you should totally get B+. It's so much funner.

Come, join the darkCool side.

I've thought about it for awhile. I have nothing against B+. But I hate it when you Bplusers call it vBrawl. It's just Brawl.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I've thought about it for awhile. I have nothing against B+. But I hate it when you Bplusers call it vBrawl. It's just Brawl.

vBrawl means vanilla Brawl, that's what you call the original version of games that have been modded, it's not some pet name we made up to insult the original game.

 

[Deleted member]

+>v

we all know it

 

[Uffe]

vBrawl means vanilla Brawl, that's what you call the original version of games that have been modded, it's not some pet name we made up to insult the original game.

I'm aware of that. But Brawl is Brawl, no v added.

+>v

we all know it

Just remember that without Brawl, there'd be no Brawl+.

 

[Master Knight DH]

Ivy and Oli should be made sure to have recoveries that aren't gimpable anyway. Oli at least is a Cheap Wimp, so he could use a playstyle revamp if possible.

I doubt it's possible, but I do wish Ness's PSI Thunder would boost the Missile's range at least just by being out longer. It would at least reward usage of the Inverse Missile, which has horrible horizontal recovery as it is anyway. Oh well.

 

[CountKaiser]

Okay, for my fair

Instead of 15% size increase, I'll go with a 5% size increase.

As for uthrow.

I WOULD make it better, but then I must wonder, what would uthrow do that dthrow cannot? Dthrow already sets up nicely. What would uthrow set up? Where would it outshine dthrow, and thus warrant the time to buff it?

 

[krazystitch]

I know... Dude you should totally get B+. It's so much funner.

Come, join the darkCool side.

Brawl+ FTW! It's so awesome, fast paced, and it works online! Perfect.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Count_Kaiser...too many people think ness is good enough as it is.....i think just give shanus the build as you have it and dont change uthrow


also i just played some 5.0 and wtf@dorf's utilt

 

[SSBFalco]

I would also MUCH rather have Ness's infinite PKT1 than the new PSI Magnet.

And it was removed because "it wasn't fair for Ivy and Oli"?
I don't get it, Ness doesn't even have a tether recovery, why don't they remove ZSS's infinite UpB as well? Can't the same be said about that?

 

[thesage]

U-throw is useful for combo'ing Falco, something d-throw cannot do. It also allows you to follow up with pkt and uair sometimes. It's more useful than I originally thought when I wrote up the guide.

Uffe: If we thought vBrawl was a good game, then we would be playing it over brawl+ lol.

Infinite pkt was removed because it was deemed that zap jump was a good enough buff to his recovery. Zap jump helps his recovery better than infinite pkt1 did alone as well as allowing to combo better and have better aerial control and attack shields much more safer than dj -> aerial since it's much faster.

I still don't get why people are mad about it lol. When we lost infinite pkt we gained a d-throw that combos, a b-throw that kills, a u-tilt that combos into aerials instead of itself, a psi magnet that actually does something, a way to ken combo, the weak hits of yoyos connect more often, and d-smash sets up for edgeguards. Right now Ness is viewed as viable by a lot of people, giving him anymore buffs is pushing it and may caused him to be nerfed. Instead of just looking at the changelist and complaining, go out there and actually play the game. Like I said before, there has been virtually no discussion of actual strategies in this topic at all.

And the new psi magnet is ****. Hold it down near the ledge and it pushes people away who fail to sweetspot their recoveries. It is pretty good vs. Wolf's recovery if you time it right since it can push off both his up-b and side-b and then you can just edgehog him or dair him. Also the wind hitbox also can push away certain projectiles (like snake's grenades).

 

[SSBFalco]

Oh, well if that's the case, I would definately take the zap jump than the infinite PKT1.

I know PSI Magnet has it's uses, I just don't like it very much. It doesn't feel like Ness, and we already had options that let us do most of the things that PSI Magnet can do right now, it doesn't feel like it improved on much of his game as compared to say infinite PKT1 or the 7/10 PK Flash did. But I do admit, it's ridiculously fun to push the spacies/marth/messing up Lucas or Ness's PK Thunder recovery (LOL).

 

[thesage]

I've done psi magnet to dair spike. Psi magnet can also stage spike.

End of debate

 

[SSBFalco]

I'm not saying PSI Magnet is useless, it's just that I found more uses in Infinite PKT1 and the old PK Flash than PSI Magnet.

I know Ness will turn out ok no matter what, it's just that everyone wants Ness to have something instead of the other like the PSI Magnet/Infinite PKT1. The truth is, we can't please everyone and we aren't always going to get everything we want, but of course there's going to be people voicing their opinions on what should and shouldn't be kept. Nobody canknow for certain how Ness will turn out in the end, but you can bet that if people have the power to influence the outcome, then debates like this will always happen.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Snakedash spammer's worst enemy is PSI Magnet. Eat the damage, push them off, spike their awful recovery.

Spacies and poor recoveries get ***** as well.

Too much fun. xD

 

[Lil'E]

Wind is fun...?

I'd rather dodge the Snake... grab and fthrow him off stage to spike rather than eat unnecessary damage.

I want to rage but don't know how to let it out in a sensible and nonaggressive manner.

I give up, lol.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

i liked infinite pkt1 for more than its recovery bonus

anyone else notice that tripping is back on ness' dtilt in 5.0?

 

[CountKaiser]

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=c8d125abced84dd0d1014a7a667fa2b4b6bcd03e03376345c95965eaa7bc68bc

Changelist

PK Flash

25% faster startup
100% faster cooldown
2x bigger now instead of 1.5x bigger

Fair

SDIability set to 1 instead of 1.5
All hitboxes 5% larger
Last hitbox does 4 damage from 3, has 60 angle, 85 KBG, 55 BKB

Dsmash

Hitbox is 20% larger

Usmash

Whole move executes 20% faster

Yoyo charge hitbox

Sends at a 270 angle, 0 KBG, 50 BKB

Now combined with the 5.0 codeset

 

[PKNintendo]

Dude thats amazing! Shanus totally has to see this.


Although if there is any dispute over fair guys, I think we should drop it.

 

[Alphatron]

I'll have to try it it out later today. Can't atm.

And Lil'E, how does one punish a dodged Snakedash with a grab? Although I can see why one would think using a healing move to tank dmg would be a bit silly.

 

[Lil'E]

All spammers get punished in one way or another. Throw may have been the wrong example but it stated my point though.


I'm not even going to discuss PSI Magnet anymore. Pointless and tiring. D:

 

[matt4300]

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=c8d125abced84dd0d1014a7a667fa2b4b6bcd03e03376345c95965eaa7bc68bc

Changelist

PK Flash

25% faster startup
100% faster cooldown
2x bigger now instead of 1.5x bigger

Fair

SDIability set to 1 instead of 1.5
All hitboxes 5% larger
Last hitbox does 4 damage from 3, has 60 angle, 85 KBG, 55 BKB

Dsmash

Hitbox is 20% larger

Usmash

Whole move executes 20% faster

Yoyo charge hitbox

Sends at a 270 angle, 0 KBG, 50 BKB

Now combined with the 5.0 codeset

GYAH!!! I wanna try it so bad but when I click the DL it goes to the dreaded internet cannot display web page.... WTF

Edit: Nvr mind.. its all good... TIME TO TEST! and instead of completely droping the fair change if theres a fuss... Just nerf it a bit until its acceptable.

 

[PKNintendo]

Okay I got back from testing this.

I didn't really notice a difference between Fair... Maybe because I played against CPUs...

Ness PK Flash is just plain awesome.
Yo-yo's are terrific too.

I notice that the Bat range buff is gone... Kaiser is it possible to put that in?
PS: I'd remove the hitbox size increase.

 

[matt4300]

Just tested....

Love the new yoyos. So much better than the trip thing... why didnet they do this to begin with?

PK flash = perfect. Not much more you can do to it. It really picks ups the small chars wich is great.

same problem as PKnintendo on the fair... (I dont have any people to play at the moment) but I did notice the size a few times.

one thing i did notice is the tipper PING!! is gone now... And I thought we were going to get a bat KB buff...

all in all it needs a few tweaks.. I dont know if the bat PING sound was the result of your set or the new way there doing the nightlys... other than that I really hope all these changes make it in. Like the yoyos arent really a buff, but more smoothing out the kinks in them.

 

[PKNintendo]

Just tested....

Love the new yoyos. So much better than the trip thing... why didnet they do this to begin with?

PK flash = perfect. Not much more you can do to it. It really picks ups the small chars wich is great.

same problem as PKnintendo on the fair... (I dont have any people to play at the moment) but I did notice the size a few times.

one thing i did notice is the tipper PING!! is gone now... And I thought we were going to get a bat KB buff...

all in all it needs a few tweaks.. I dont know if the bat PING sound was the result of your set or the new way there doing the nightlys... other than that I really hope all these changes make it in. Like the yoyos arent really a buff, but more smoothing out the kinks in them.

Yeah agree about the bat. It needs it's ping sound... AND it needs a range buff imo.

 

[Lil'E]

Ping seems to be because of the nightly. It was reported there as well before he released this test build.

 

[shanus]

its cuz i didnt know how to do SFX

 

[PKNintendo]

Lololol!
You, NOT know how to do something?

When do you expect the next nightly will be?

 

[shanus]

Lololol!
You, NOT know how to do something?

When do you expect the next nightly will be?

Well, I never even looked into SFX and I had more than enough on my plate at the time.

Regarding nightly, I'm not sure really. Maybe preceding SNES next weekend

 

[PKNintendo]

Hehe I was only joking.
You're adding the changes we suggested right? (at your own discretion?)

 

[stingers]

WHY ARE YOU IDIOTS BUFFING FAIR

BUFFING IT

YOU'RE MAKING IT BETTER

HOLY SHIT caps for emphasis