Brawl+ Ness (SEVENTEEN ****ETY THREE)

[PKNintendo]

They removed that like 4 months ago iirc.........

It was never removed...



Hope they keep it, I don't see at as being overpowered in the slightest. It's like a crappy Falco lazer! (Intentional)

XD

 

[CountKaiser]

1A000113 3FB33333

That line is what gives Lucas the side B thing. It was kept in because it didn't prove to be any trouble.

I just want PK Flash 2x back, since it didn't prove to be troublesome either.

 

[PKNintendo]

1A000113 3FB33333

That line is what gives Lucas the side B thing. It was kept in because it didn't prove to be any trouble.

I just want PK Flash 2x back, since it didn't prove to be troublesome either.

Do you know how to fix it? (I mean which line to make PK flash fixed)

 

[Mattnumbers]

Oh I guess they just discussed removing it then, it's been a while since I played vBrawl Lucas so it's hard to tell they sped it up.

 

[PKNintendo]

Oh I guess they just discussed removing it then, it's been a while since I played vBrawl Lucas so it's hard to tell they sped it up.

What the HECK!
Dude... you became a MOD?!?

 

[CountKaiser]

PKNintendo: I believe so.

Question is, though, should it go back in?

I know it didn't cause problems, but is it needed?

Then again, the new smaller size is screwing with me.

I don't know, I'm rambling now. @_@

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

matt's name is green and he has a custom title because he is a PREMIUM member


also i hope no one has a problem making pk flash the way it was before....it was only changed because of a changelist mistake....blah

 

[Uffe]

The power or speed should not be changed on PK Flash. I'd think it's powerful because one, it leaves you open, and two, it's slow. If it can't kill, there's no point for Ness to even have it.

 

[CountKaiser]

Uffe, what do you mean by speed? Do you mean how quickly it moves, or how quickly Ness can get it out and recover from the move?

Uncharged PK Flash isn't that strong, and is good for ending combos and such.

 

[Mattnumbers]

matt's name is green and he has a custom title because he is a PREMIUM member


also i hope no one has a problem making pk flash the way it was before....it was only changed because of a changelist mistake....blah

Awww you ruined my fun

 

[CountKaiser]

What do premium members get anyway?

And to remain on topic, what do people think of the fair in my ness build? Too big, too combotastic, too awful?

 

[Mattnumbers]

What do premium members get anyway?

And to remain on topic, what do people think of the fair in my ness build? Too big, too combotastic, too awful?

You get all this stuff: http://www.smashboards.com/announcement.php?f=209&a=177

But you also get to support the Forums so just think of it as a donation you get benefits from.

 

[PKNintendo]

I liked your fair Kaiser. But to the problem at hand. Something needs to be done for Pk flash and if Shanus does go along with our changes. [ie yo-yos, Pk flash speed, etc] we need to explain to him why pkf doesnt deserve a nerf.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

pknintendo it wasnt so much a nerf....i think its just that they re-entered the codes because of the new engine and read on the changelist from before that it was at 1.5x size (which it wasnt, that was a changelist mistake) when really it was at 2x size in the game and so they put in the new code for 1.5x

hopefully there is no problem putting it back to where it was

and uffe: the pk flash will still charge and move at the same slow speed the green charging flash will just appear faster when u press B and after it explodes ness will have less lag

i really dont expect shanus to have a problem with that stuff....he sounded like those changes were kinda already in the plans....i do wonder what he will do with fair and yoyos tho

 

[Uffe]

Uffe, what do you mean by speed? Do you mean how quickly it moves, or how quickly Ness can get it out and recover from the move?

Uncharged PK Flash isn't that strong, and is good for ending combos and such.

It's a slow attack. Keep it that way. It may or may not cause stress on the other player, depending on how well they recover. Ness recovers fine out of PK Flash in Brawl better than he did in Melee, too. I say have it the way Brawl intended it to be. If you're going to add something to it, maybe the range it had in Melee. At least then it'd seem a lot more useful. Because what are the odds of it ever hitting?

 

[thesage]

Actually, in 7/21 it was quite useful for edgeguarding. Simna wants to further buff it so it can combo.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

uffe if u wanna see what kind of pk flash im talking about try the 7/10 build of Brawl+

 

[CountKaiser]

No, better yet, try my build of ness.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

yeah its in that one too

 

[shanus]

I would try and comment more on this right now, but I'm away for the weekend and can't take a look at all the goodies. Additionally, I start my job on Monday as a consultant which means i'll be working insane hours (worth it though), so I'll try and let you know more opinions when i have a chance.

In the meanwhile, try and draft up a set as best as possible, but please try and be sensible in your changes. For example, fair kind of overcentralizes the metagame, so don't focus on making too large with too little ability to be SDI'd.

 

[PKNintendo]

I would try and comment more on this right now, but I'm away for the weekend and can't take a look at all the goodies. Additionally, I start my job on Monday as a consultant which means i'll be working insane hours (worth it though), so I'll try and let you know more opinions when i have a chance.

In the meanwhile, try and draft up a set as best as possible, but please try and be sensible in your changes. For example, fair kind of overcentralizes the metagame, so don't focus on making too large with too little ability to be SDI'd.

Gotcha sir.
Good luck on your job sir.

Okay guys, so far we want:

Pk flash back at 2X size
Pk Flash speed up
Kaiser's Yo-yo changes.

Dsmash

Hitbox is 20% larger

Usmash

Whole move executes 15% faster

Yoyo charge hitbox

Sends at a 270 angle, 0 KBG, 50 BKB

Kaiser's fair. Honestly I could do without it, but Sage has noted Fair was ridiculously cheap against some characters, and pretty bad on others. The fair fix will fix that.

It's only fair.

 

[thesage]

Actually I got Kaiser to test out the fair on some character and according to him there are only a few characters that are noticeable hard to combo with fair. I was just unlucky and happen to play one of those characters quite often (Falco). I think Zelda and Falco are the only ones that are very different though.

The new Marth Physics in the newest nightly might make it hard for Ness to combo him as well. I'll test him out when I get the new nightly.

I agree with pknintendo on the fair. It's fine the way it is now. Anymore range increases would simply make it broken (a move that can outrange marth and 0-death him lolwut)

I like the current yoyo charge hitbox, but if others want it changed that badly... I liked that it tripped but w/e

I've already stated my opinion on pk flash changes.

Some other ideas I've discussed with others/I thought of were making u-throw more of a combo move or reduce the endlage of psi magnet.

 

[PKNintendo]

Actually I got Kaiser to test out the fair on some character and according to him there are only a few characters that are noticeable hard to combo with fair. I was just unlucky and happen to play one of those characters quite often (Falco). I think Zelda and Falco are the only ones that are very different though.

The new Marth Physics in the newest nightly might make it hard for Ness to combo him as well. I'll test him out when I get the new nightly.

I agree with pknintendo on the fair. It's fine the way it is now. Anymore range increases would simply make it broken (a move that can outrange marth and 0-death him lolwut)

I like the current yoyo charge hitbox, but if others want it changed that badly... I liked that it tripped but w/e

I've already stated my opinion on pk flash changes.

Some other ideas I've discussed with others/I thought of were making u-throw more of a combo move or reduce the endlage of psi magnet.

Probably. It's just better to leave it in. Unless it becomes a big problem.
Yo-yo trip's made the move safe, but not effective.

Kaiser's changes makes Upsmash a damage racker/pops enemies in the air.
Downsmash is stronger/better pretty much.

I would take a better Up throw over psi magnet, but I think even that is pushing the envelope.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

i think we brought this up before, but what if we used count_kaiser's fair change except the range increase....just the other parts

 

[PKNintendo]

i think we brought this up before, but what if we used count_kaiser's fair change except the range increase....just the other parts

Seems good I guess. As long as it doesn't make the move any worse or too good.
But I also really like the current fair too.

 

[Deleted member]

stop ****ing changing fair. it's totally fine as is, holy ****.

 

[PKNintendo]

stop ****ing changing fair. it's totally fine as is, holy ****.

I love it too people. But as usual your lack foresight is seen again.
Ness fair has two problems. Being able to Combo to much. (like Marth lol) And combo to little.

 

[Deleted member]

okay i dont care about that. moves have problems. i get it. get used to playing with it. O_O

im so sick of having to change the way i play because f-air gets changed around every god**** build lol

 

[PKNintendo]

okay i dont care about that. moves have problems. i get it. get used to playing with it. O_O

im so sick of having to change the way i play because f-air gets changed around every god**** build lol

It may be fun to you, 0-60 Marth easily, but other players (unknown to them lol) would hate it.
But really, I don't have a problem with it. If people want to keep Ness current fair, go for it. Hell I even want it.

 

[Deleted member]

im not saying fair is fun, im just saying it works fine as is, i dont see the problem here.

 

[PKNintendo]

Can't you reeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaadddddddddddddd.

It may be fun to you, 0-60 Marth easily, but other players (unknown to them lol) would hate it.
But really, I don't have a problem with it. If people want to keep Ness current fair, go for it. Hell I even want it.

 

[Deleted member]

whatever. anyway, don't change fair.

 

[Uffe]

uffe if u wanna see what kind of pk flash im talking about try the 7/10 build of Brawl+

Do you guys have any videos? I lack a working Wii.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

i cant say i do....i even had looked for 7/10 videos on youtube of ness and i found one that showed little

 

[PKNintendo]

Do you guys have any videos? I lack a working Wii.

It's like PK flash, but bigger. The size increase actually allows you land it. Half of the smashers in Smashboards don't even know what the move does. People actually COMPLAINED because they didn't know what it was.

vBrawl PK flash is terrible. You can't kid yourself with that. You could commit the whole match in trying to land and ultimately failing.

Also the Pk flash was faster. Allowing it to use it mid combo.

 

[thesage]

Fair is fine the way it is and doesn't need to be changed. I agree 100% with delorted.

I don't care if you guys buff pk flash anymore as long as Ness doesn't lose something more useful than it.

 

[_clinton]

Ok...about Unlimited PKT1 being removed...
The buff PKT has for general right now affects both PKT1 and PKT2...
However, the thoughts for PKT2 is that it doesn't help the move that much in general

 

[CountKaiser]

@_@

Do we want my fair, tweaked of course, or do we want Shanus's fair?

I'm horribly confused. T_T

 

[PKNintendo]

Fair is fine the way it is and doesn't need to be changed. I agree 100% with delorted.

I don't care if you guys buff pk flash anymore as long as Ness doesn't lose something more useful than it.

I'm confused too.

Didn't you say Fair was cheap on some characters, and crap on others?


I'm fine with the current fair honest. (I think it's amazing)

 

[Uffe]

It's like PK flash, but bigger. The size increase actually allows you land it. Half of the smashers in Smashboards don't even know what the move does. People actually COMPLAINED because they didn't know what it was.

vBrawl PK flash is terrible. You can't kid yourself with that. You could commit the whole match in trying to land and ultimately failing.

Also the Pk flash was faster. Allowing it to use it mid combo.

Does the attack look different or something? And are you serious? Half the Smashers here don't know what PK Flash does? Am I reading that correctly?