Brawl+ Ness (SEVENTEEN ****ETY THREE)

[_clinton]

B+ needs more shield breaks.


Why did you not go for tipper though?

Edit: 0:46 was ********. It doesn't even look right graphically. Hitbox should stay out longer or whatever.

I would have went for PKT2 at that range Peach was at

 

[thesage]

Peach matchup is really gay cuz it's so easy to combo her with fair but I have problems landing kill moves on her. Maybe I should go for a nair kill lol.

She also has really gay shield pressure and edgeguarding.

Edit: Nice match Del. I think Warioware may be a bad stage for Ness since the edges **** his pkt2 recovery. Then again, you can recovery from anywhere with zap jump lol.

 

[PKNintendo]

That was a nice Peach match.

Yeah the Peach matchup is a bit hard. She gimps you like no tomorrow (especially with that float) and isn't a bad aerial character. Her lightness is offsetted by her **** priority.

 

[Roxas215]

Umm peach ***** ness. Just saying. If a peach ever lose to ness the peach player is doing something TERRIBLY WRONG.

Phillyrider(Peach) Vs Clint(Ness)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiLbjxnlvys

Phillyrider(Peach) Vs Sage(Ness)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZBaLCxKtw4

 

[thesage]

Lol I suck online. I'm really bad at spacing aerials on it. /lagfi johns

Anyways, I was testing out some stuff with Ness.

Fair doesn't combo falcon until after ~45%.

Use u-throw instead of d-throw to combo Falco and Falcon. U-throw -> uair counts as a consecutive hit on falcon at 135%m (this is good since b-throw kills falcon later).

Yoshi gets wtfraped by fair. I actually got fair -> fair -> dair as a legit combo on yoshi in training mode (as in it was displayed as consecutive hits).

Fair combos Fox really nicely past ~30%. It doesn't work on falco though lol. I did get u-throw -> uair -> to count as a consecutive hit against Falco.

Wind effect of aerial psi magnet pushes IC's 1/4 of fd's length away.

Zelda and Falco are hard to combo with fair.

Pk fire is a decent spacing tool now since it actually combos and is faster. If your opponent di's so that they climb up the pillar you can't hit them with ground attacks but it sets up for fair combos nicely. On fatties that di also sets up for aerial pk fire chains, but they usually get out after 3 pk fires.

Zap jump, bat, and uair -> jab are Ness' shield pressure tools. Use them.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Lol I suck

That's all you needed to say buddy j/k.

 

[PKNintendo]

Umm peach ***** ness. Just saying. If a peach ever lose to ness the peach player is doing something TERRIBLY WRONG.

Phillyrider(Peach) Vs Clint(Ness)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiLbjxnlvys

Phillyrider(Peach) Vs Sage(Ness)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZBaLCxKtw4

Y'all better back of lady.
You got NOTHING on Ness.

WERR!!!


But seriously can you read? We've all said Ness loses.
In vBrawl Ness went nearly even with Peach (55-45)

And I got that from EdreesPieces and he's a way bettter Peach than you lol.
Where am I going with this? vBrawl=/=Brawl +, but they share similarities.

Namely 1. Ness isn't hard countered by Peach.

 

[thesage]

That's all you needed to say buddy j/k.

You're so lucky Falco isn't combo'd by fair D=<<<<<<

lol. I'll be back labor day weekend so maybe we can smash then?

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Mos def. Gimme a call when you get back.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

lol phillyrider in that match vs. clinton he did a ton of stupid poop....clinton is obviously not good ness that you should measure ness'[ true ability by

oh wait that was a wifi match....i'll forget i watched it because its lolag

 

[[TSON]]

Turnip walls.

>_>


How dodgy is Falcon/Ness matchup? He seems to be hardest for me (but I never use uthrow, nice tip there sage >.> I'll work on it)

Uair ***** my zap jump most of the time and since he runs blazing fast and falls equally as fast, I have a hell of a time if he gets me offstage at all.

 

[PKNintendo]

LOLOL NESS RAPEZ FALCON. FALCON SHOULKD NEVR LIEK LOSE TO NES.

But seriously, I don't know. Never played a Falcon.

 

[[TSON]]

Whenever I play a falcon I uair juggle a bit then they combo me once to 60% and nair or w/e and get me offstage, uair-punish my zap jump, then jump into PK2 after showing off a bit by running to the other side of the stage >_>

falcon is gay sex

 

[SSBFalco]

I never had any trouble with Peach. Just spam and space Fair all day and there's nothing she can really do to you. This will force her to pull Turnips, so as long as you stay close enough to her, you can go in for a grab as she's pulling out the turnip.

 

[thesage]

Use u-throw and uair combos. D-throw works too, but I think it can be di'd. Like I mentioned before, you can't really fair combo Falcon until after around 45%

Falcon ***** Ness's recovery, but Ness can do the same to falcon with psi magnet, fair, and pk flash. Also, remember dj -> airdodge (I'm still not sure if this can be zap jumped and this is the safest option) or zap jump fair.

When you have him grabbed at high percents go for u-throw to uair to kill since b-throw kills him pretty late and I'm pretty sure he can di away and tech by that percentage.

 

[Deleted member]

Someone's gonna have to teach me zap-jumping. I don't use it because I'm clueless on how to do it.

 

[thesage]

Just press jump and then the attack button at the same time. It's really easy. I got it on the first try. Just press x and a at the same time and you got it.

 

[Deleted member]

Man what? I thought zap-jumping was with PK fire, lmao! that's why I was suiciding.

 

[thesage]

You don't read my posts lmao. You can do it with aerials, airdodge, and pk fire as well.

 

[Roxas215]

lol phillyrider in that match vs. clinton he did a ton of stupid poop....clinton is obviously not good ness that you should measure ness'[ true ability by

oh wait that was a wifi match....i'll forget i watched it because its lolag

Believe me i wouldn't judge the matchup off of wifi. I have beaten plenty of ness players offline in vbrawl and b+. I don't think it's a drastic 70-30 matchup but i also think if played right there is no way peach can lose to ness. She simply ***** his recovery and it's not hard to get ness offstage to begin with. Ness fair wall is a ***** though. Yes the matchup says it's 55-45 but the mathup boards also say peach vs ddd is even which is flat out wrong. Someone explain to me how a char that wont die til 230 but can kill another char at 90 equals a even matchup. I've spoken to top ddd players and they all said ddd ***** peach.(sry i know this isn't the place for ddd vs peach discussion)

Anyway bottom line is i think peach should never lose to ness. Yall are free to prove me wrong.

 

[PKNintendo]

Believe me i wouldn't judge the matchup off of wifi. I have beaten plenty of ness players offline in vbrawl and b+. I don't think it's a drastic 70-30 matchup but i also think if played right there is no way peach can lose to ness. She simply ***** his recovery and it's not hard to get ness offstage to begin with. Ness fair wall is a ***** though. Yes the matchup says it's 55-45 but the mathup boards also say peach vs ddd is even which is flat out wrong. Someone explain to me how a char that wont die til 230 but can kill another char at 90 equals a even matchup. I've spoken to top ddd players and they all said ddd ***** peach.(sry i know this isn't the place for ddd vs peach discussion)

Anyway bottom line is i think peach should never lose to ness. Yall are free to prove me wrong.

I'm sorry but I'd take the vBrawl's Peach mains opinion over yours. Do you really think that you know better than Dark Peach, Praxis and Edrees? They may be wrong about ONE character,it doesn't mean they are always wrong.

Your points are generic and vague. ***** recovery has been heard before time and time again so your statement is no different. She ***** his recovery in vBrawl so it's no different lol. This time around Ness can zap jump is fair.

(I'll tell you since you obviously don't know this. Ness can use rising aerial that are incredibly high. It helps the recovery as a whole quite well)

Peach should never lose to Ness is what you state. Yet you don't think it's a 7-3 matchup? LO. Get out more.

PS: For the love of god can you SPACE YOUR POSTS?! Reading that made sick.

 

[Roxas215]

I'm sorry but I'd take the vBrawl's Peach mains opinion over yours. Do you really think that you know better than Dark Peach, Praxis and Edrees? They may be wrong about ONE character,it doesn't mean they are always wrong.

Your points are generic and vague. ***** recovery has been heard before time and time again so your statement is no different. She ***** his recovery in vBrawl so it's no different lol. This time around Ness can zap jump is fair.

(I'll tell you since you obviously don't know this. Ness can use rising aerial that are incredibly high. It helps the recovery as a whole quite well)

Peach should never lose to Ness is what you state. Yet you don't think it's a 7-3 matchup? LO. Get out more.

PS: For the love of god can you SPACE YOUR POSTS?! Reading that made sick.

Yea cause like im not a vbrawl peach main. Like im not friends with d.pch. Dude i don't even have a secondary in vbrawl. I wouldn't just talk about stuff i don't know.

Tell me what ness has over peach? His fair wall can be countered by turnip spam. Dair ***** any grounded approach he has. If ness is dumb enough to try to camp with pk fire peach can easily get over it. And of course u heard it time and time again because it's the truth. Peach ***** his recovery. If i even get just one turnip gimp below 70% the match is **** near won. Platforms just gives peach even more of a advantage and it's more then likely that 2 out of 3 matches in a set will be on stages with platforms.

And o wow you had to read a couple lines there weren't spaced. Like wtf. It's so funny when people act like message boards are english class.

 

[SSBFalco]

Come on guys, let's not start a flame war. We're just trying to discuss matchups now.

Anyways, I'd like to address some things Philly said about the matchup.
Ness will never approach on the ground, if the Ness players you face are doing this, they aren't very good. Ness can in no way camp with PK Fire. At all. There's just no way to do so without asking to get punished. I agree that Peach owns Ness once he's off the stage, and Peach has no problem doing it once she starts a combo going, but Ness isn't just going to let that happen. If Ness just spaces his fair all day there's nothing Peach can do but pull turnips, leaving her open for Ness to punish. Peach will have to work to get a hit in on a good Ness, so I really don't think Ness is hopeless against Peach, he just has to play very patiently. Ness doesn't do bad on platform stages, so Peach wouldn't flat out **** him there I would think.

 

[Roxas215]

Come on guys, let's not start a flame war. We're just trying to discuss matchups now.

Anyways, I'd like to address some things Philly said about the matchup.
Ness will never approach on the ground, if the Ness players you face are doing this, they aren't very good. Ness can in no way camp with PK Fire. At all. There's just no way to do so without asking to get punished. I agree that Peach owns Ness once he's off the stage, and Peach has no problem doing it once she starts a combo going, but Ness isn't just going to let that happen. If Ness just spaces his fair all day there's nothing Peach can do but pull turnips, leaving her open for Ness to punish. Peach will have to work to get a hit in on a good Ness, so I really don't think Ness is hopeless against Peach, he just has to play very patiently. Ness doesn't do bad on platform stages, so Peach wouldn't flat out **** him there I would think.

Im not starting a flame war. Im just saying i wouldn't just blindly say things.

Ness spacing fairs means peach will spam turnips. But your forgetting glide tossing. One glidetoss sets peach up to punish ness. And like u said(and i said in a couple posts before) Peach has no problems getting ness off stage to begin with.

I know ness does good on platform stages himself but peach EXCELS at platforms.

 

[SSBFalco]

Peach is actually one of my secondaries so I know about glidetossing. When I fight against Peach, I wait patiently while keeping Peach at bay with my fairs until she plucks a turnip, then I go in for a grab. From there I can usually get a 2-3 hit combo and gain momentum. However, if Peach is patient as well and waits for an opening, she can completely wreck Ness, so I do agree that Peach has an advantage on Ness. Either way, I don't think the matchup is impossibly hard for Ness...

 

[PKNintendo]

Yea cause like im not a vbrawl peach main. Like im not friends with d.pch. Dude i don't even have a secondary in vbrawl. I wouldn't just talk about stuff i don't know.

Tell me what ness has over peach? His fair wall can be countered by turnip spam. Dair ***** any grounded approach he has. If ness is dumb enough to try to camp with pk fire peach can easily get over it. And of course u heard it time and time again because it's the truth. Peach ***** his recovery. If i even get just one turnip gimp below 70% the match is **** near won. Platforms just gives peach even more of a advantage and it's more then likely that 2 out of 3 matches in a set will be on stages with platforms.

And o wow you had to read a couple lines there weren't spaced. Like wtf. It's so funny when people act like message boards are english class.

Fair wall? Good Ness' don't spam fair nor do they have walls. Moot point.
Um, why the **** would Ness try to use a ground approach on Peach. Another moot point.
How does Ness use PK fire to camp? Clearly you have next to no idea how Ness is played.

I mean I could try to argue but I don't even think it's worth it.
You know your own character but know next to nothing about the other character.

I remember when I was like that. I would always spout nonsense about Ness and undermine other characters. I was famous for it at the Mario boards too. Seeing it now makes me realize how pathetic I was.
Of course message aren't an english class, but it's ***** to read clumped up together.

 

[SSBFalco]

Why don't we focus on another character.

I find one character in particular to be a living hell when playing against him. Game and Watch's Bair alone is hell to get around with Ness, I have no idea how to get through it without getting a lucky hit in. Not only that, but GW's Bair effectively shuts down Ness's air game and pretty much forces Ness to wait for GW to mess up, which shouldn't happen often if the GW is good. What's worse is that the only way GW is going to die is if you get a grab in, which GW will make it impossibly hard for you to do. I would like to know how you guys handle against GW, since his Bair alone can own Ness.

 

[CountKaiser]

G&W vs Ness.



.........Oh lol, quit life. XD


Seriously, this may be 7:3 matchup considering the character's involved. G&W may be ***** by Ness's combos, but Ness must somehow get around G&W's fortress of priority first. Also, G&W has to trouble comboing and gimping a Ness.

One major reason that Ness has a hard time with G&W is because of the bucket. It absorbs any and all of Ness's projectiles, which eliminates PK Flash as an edgeguard, PKT as a pressure tool, and PK Fire as a combo starter. Not to mention G&W can eat Ness's recovery if he so chooses.

G&W's air game is better than ness's, and his ground game is much better than ness's. The all-mighty nair of comborape will rack up damage quick, and the bucket makes for easy gimping that gives G&W a full 60% OHKO bucket once he absorbs 3 PKT1's.

Only consolation I can see here is that once Ness get's inside a G&W, he can really wreck said G&W. Bthrow and uair utterly **** him, as do dthrow and fair and nair combos.

But if you are going up against a G&W, change character or pray.

 

[PKNintendo]

Yeah Ness is hard pressed and against GaW.

Bair is tough to get by. (Fair loses )
The bucket is RIDICULOUSLY powerful. Pretty much all of Ness bucketed moves will lead to a KO.
My brother somewhat uses GaW and it was (and still is) hellish to face of against.

Pretty much what Kaiser said for the rest. He's the expert here.

 

[CountKaiser]

I wouldn't call myself the expert on G&W+.

That'd probably be either Hylian or Slikvik.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

and to think that GW's bair is HARDER to DI than 7/10 ness fair...lol nm me


now this may not work so well in B+, but vs. G&W in vbrawl i believe an offensive approach should be taken toward the bucket...as long as the bucket is FULL then GW can't bucket other things....so keep the bucket full and enjoy your projectile use

this may give GW a potential stock off your life(i dont know if G&W+ has any sort of combo to bucket or not) but it also removes his ability to use bucket as a defense without constantly emptying it and giving you attack opportunities

 

[CountKaiser]

Legit combos to bucket? Not sure.

And that's very risky. Too risky. The bucket, when it bucket's almost anything Ness has, will result in a OHKO from 0%.

And simply not being able to bucket things won't stop G&W. His fair and bair can take out PKT1, and his chair will defend him from PKF.

And don't you dare say G&W's bair is harder to di or SDI. THat thing had 8 or so frame of hitlag in vBrawl, and now ASDI ***** the move. I'm sure Ness could SDI towards G&W and nair him out of bair.

Also, stop mentioning 7/10 ness. JC and Thunderpony will never let ness+ mains live this down.

 

[Deleted member]

I played peach to a pretty high degree in melee (i have some **** vids) and i played her in v/brawl+.. i'd love to face peach mains in brawl+ because i think like a peach when i play ness

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

if GW fills up on pk fire hits then it isnt 1HKO


and i wont stop talking about 7/10 ness....it wasnt overpowered at all

 

[Meru.]

Y'all better back of lady.
You got NOTHING on Ness.

WERR!!!


But seriously can you read? We've all said Ness loses.
In vBrawl Ness went nearly even with Peach (55-45)

And I got that from EdreesPieces and he's a way bettter Peach than you lol.
Where am I going with this? vBrawl=/=Brawl +, but they share similarities.

Namely 1. Ness isn't hard countered by Peach.

Ness-Peach was a 50-50 in vBrawl, Edreese said so himself o.o EDIT: Nvm, today he said it was a 60-40 in vBrawl.

Don't know about Brawl+, though as a Peach main I can't imagine Ness being hard-countered by Peach.

Believe me i wouldn't judge the matchup off of wifi. I have beaten plenty of ness players offline in vbrawl and b+. I don't think it's a drastic 70-30 matchup but i also think if played right there is no way peach can lose to ness. She simply ***** his recovery and it's not hard to get ness offstage to begin with. Ness fair wall is a ***** though. Yes the matchup says it's 55-45 but the mathup boards also say peach vs ddd is even which is flat out wrong. Someone explain to me how a char that wont die til 230 but can kill another char at 90 equals a even matchup. I've spoken to top ddd players and they all said ddd ***** peach.(sry i know this isn't the place for ddd vs peach discussion)

Anyway bottom line is i think peach should never lose to ness. Yall are free to prove me wrong.

You don't wanna know how wrong you are about Peach-DDD in vBrawl.

 

[Roxas215]

Ness-Peach was a 50-50 in vBrawl, Edreese said so himself o.o

Don't know about Brawl+, though as a Peach main I can't imagine Ness being hard-countered by Peach.



You don't wanna know how wrong you are about Peach-DDD in vBrawl.

Ill pm you my response as i dont want to clutter the ness board with peach talk.

 

[thesage]

Why is vbrawl being discussed in here wtf.

If Ness can land the kill moves on Peach he's set, but that's really hard. Peach's shield pressure is pretty ****. Just spam fair til you can kill her with nair lol. It's a really gay matchup. Peach is pretty fast.

I don't really know what to say vs. GaW lol. Though what Kaiser said about GaW bucketing pk flash while he's recovering is wrong though. The bucket has quite a large amount of lag after it buckets a projectile and I would simply hold pk flash as long as possible if I see a gaw pull out a bucket offstage. It worked for me against Lucas (then again it was online lol). If he doesn't sweetspot his up-b then psi magnet ***** it like all vertical up-bs.

 

[Deleted member]

meh after playing a kirby who absolutely ***** ness i don't really find other characters as difficult to fight.

 

[Plum]

Kaiser is right on Bair. You have no excuses when it comes to Bair ****. It has so much range and priority, but any character can just SDI out of it and hit G&W with their fastest aerial (or if you're a ***** like Wario or Jiggly you Waft/Rest him out of it T_T).

Bair will eat your projectiles and stop approaches very well, but as far as aggressive G&W goes Nair tends to be the thing to fear. That will pile on 17%, and then link into another Nair.

G&W ***** his recovery as soon as you have to use PK Thunder with the Bucket, or an even more hilarious Uair/Up B to screw you over with the wind box.

He is also going to have trouble killing you as long as you are smart. Smashes are hard to land, so just keep your spacing and avoid rushing him down. Often times if you see G&W charging a smash it is just a good idea to wait it out instead of trying to punish the smash. G&W can easily abuse the charge time of his smashes along with their priority, surprising speed, and in Fsmash's case the lingering hitbox to trick you into a smash. If you avoid the smashes he basically has to kill with Fair which will take a while (towards the 150% range on stage). But once he gets you offstage, that's where he will get kills.

Honestly it's all about hoping you can find a way inside his priority. He'll beat you down while being aggressive, and he'll beat you down while being defensive. He easily deals with your projectiles, and your recovery (thankfully you have something else to work with because of Zap Jump, but it's still a grim tale).
Granted, Ness will deal heavy punishment if G&W screws up, and G&W can actually be edgegaurded now thanks to NASL. Technically G&W could sweetspot the ledge, but it is basically never worth it because his Up B goes so **** high that he has to go stupidly low to sweetspot. Generally speaking G&W is best off recovering high and landing on the stage, or just using his Up B early on and then going for the ledge while defending himself with Nair, Chef, Fair or whatever.

 

[PKNintendo]

Thanks for the input guys.

So far, are we settling for 65-35 GaW?
Possibly 7-3?