Brawl Information Compendium & Social

[infiniteV115]

SDI is during hitlag, not hitstun.

And yeah it's weird to me too but it works, try it out for yourself. Get pummel released as Ness and hold towards the opponent. Then do it again, but hold away from the opponent, it's a drastic difference.

If I were to come up with an explanation that comes close to making sense, it would be that you have control over your character's aerial movement for a certain part/parts of the pummel release animation.

 

[da K.I.D.]

bob, Im not getting whats complicated about changing the angle that you move in, and as a result, changing the distance you move or where you end up.

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

well you can only DI at a 90 degree angle at best so this means if you can theoretically DI the grab release that means that the release has hitlag (correct term this time?) And the knockback has an either upward or downward angle. This may be the case but this just seems kinda outlandish. I suspect this is some sort of unique case that isn't really DI because of the way DI works. The idea that you regain control of your characters aerial momentum early for some odd reason seems like a more likely explanation for this in my mind. I know I'm arguing semantics but that kind of difference can make a difference in other things that could maybe come out of this.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Di is Di, last frame of hitlag.

Holding away while being in the air, is not Di. It's.. holding away.. while in the air.
It's like saying "You can Di jumps". Which.. no.. you can't.

It happens when the grabber holds the character above the ground to force an air release, you have aerial control before hitting the ground.
Pummel release someone with Snake when they hold away, then do the same when they hold toward Snake.

Simple stuffs.

 

[Death Arcana]

The knockback increase is 20% when being hit while charging a smash.

thanks lzr
i was wondering about it

first
does anyone know the frame data for a wall tech and is it universal?
data i would like to know is total frames, invincibility start up and duration, and if there is any IASA frames

anyone help me with this one?

 

[-LzR-]

Umm... first you quoted my post where I explained it to you and thanked me for it and the very next thing you do is ask the same thing again?

 

[da K.I.D.]

Di is Di, last frame of hitlag.

Holding away while being in the air, is not Di. It's.. holding away.. while in the air.
It's like saying "You can Di jumps". Which.. no.. you can't.

well since there isnt really a term for 'holding away, in the air' we default to the term DI because the difference between 'where you move in the air' and 'where you move in the air, after getting hit by an attack' is negligible.

 

[-LzR-]

Though it gets annoying when people call drifting in the air DI, with this one it's ok to call it DI.

 

[Heartstring]

The knockback increase is 20% when being hit while charging a smash.

Really? I was under the impression it was 50%, what with having people die to Rob's smashes at like 60% lol

 

[1PokeMastr]

If it was a 50% knockback increase, getting hit by a 9 wind if you were charging a smash attack..
It kills at 45-50% normally.. Expect to die at 25-30 :3

 

[Death Arcana]

my bad let me fix that real quick

 

[da K.I.D.]

its a 20% knockback increase, people die randomly because typically, if someones charging a smash they are holding the stick as well as the button, which means theyre going to have terrible DI

 

[Tesh]

Really? I was under the impression it was 50%, what with having people die to Rob's smashes at like 60% lol

how can this possibly happen? is there a video? ROB has such weak smashes (well the 2 most affected by DI are weak) but yea what KID said.

if you knew u were gonna get hit, you would have released to get yourself out of that charging phase to avoid increased KB, so holding a charge will often result in awful DI if you react slow.

 

[Aidebit]

Though it gets annoying when people call drifting in the air DI, with this one it's ok to call it DI.

It is Directional Influence in a sense, though.

 

[Tesh]

semantics are nice, but they are 2 different things despite whatever terminology you might use.

DI is input during hitlag, before you start moving. Drifting is input while your character is moving.

 

[da K.I.D.]

its not like any of these (to my knowledge) are official from the book terms anyway

 

[infiniteV115]

It is Directional Influence in a sense, though.

Yeah but by that logic you'd also refer to walking, running, jumping, and any moves with a set trajectory (eg Falco's sideB) as DIing.

 

[Jamwa]

Can someone explain how to buffer an OoS aerial on a character that has a tether?

Also, is nado DI-able? I know it has no SDI value, but will holding a direction or any sort of input change your movement any amount?

 

[infiniteV115]

The fact that your character has a tether doesn't affect their ability to buffer an aerial out of shield.

Technically speaking, you can't buffer an aerial out of shield. You'll have to jump out of shield, and buffer the aerial out of the beginning of the jump. (If you try to do this with an uair you might end up doing a jump-cancelling usmash OoS, so for a buffered uair you'd have to hold up slightly on the analog. It'll probably take practice.)

Unless you're playing Yoshi, cause he can't jump out of shield. In his case, you'll have to just drop your shield and then buffer the jump + aerial out of his shield drop lag.

 

[Heartstring]

how can this possibly happen? is there a video? ROB has such weak smashes (well the 2 most affected by DI are weak) but yea what KID said.

if you knew u were gonna get hit, you would have released to get yourself out of that charging phase to avoid increased KB, so holding a charge will often result in awful DI if you react slow.

I saw one AGES ago, And honestly I can't find it again, Trust me, I was just as surprised as you guys when I heard about it...(i'm not making up crap, honest!)
I saw it back in 2009 on AIB so trying to find it again was nigh impossible, sorry

 

[teluoborg]

The fact that your character has a tether doesn't affect their ability to buffer an aerial out of shield.

Technically speaking, you can't buffer an aerial out of shield. You'll have to jump out of shield, and buffer the aerial out of the beginning of the jump. (If you try to do this with an uair you might end up doing a jump-cancelling usmash OoS, so for a buffered uair you'd have to hold up slightly on the analog. It'll probably take practice.)
Unless you're playing Yoshi, cause he can't jump out of shield. In his case, you'll have to just drop your shield and then buffer the jump + aerial out of his shield drop lag.

Technically speaking you can buffer an aerial OOS during shield hitstun. All it takes is your jump squat animation mustn't be 9-10 frames long (aka not Snake or Bowser) and then the game will remember your aerial input.

And the problem with tethers is that if you go for Nair OOS while still holding shield you'll Zair. The solution to that is letting go shield during the jump or during the shield hitstun.

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

I hate when people disregard using the proper words to describe things because the details can be lost. For example understanding the differences between di, sdi, and drifting is key to increasing survivability. Saying well drifting is basically the same thing as di is silly as they perform completely different roles while drifting won't allow you to get out of combos like di can, di won't cancel out your momentum like drifting does. Proper understanding of what words mean is the way to have intelligent conversations.

on a side note, does anyone know why jumping impacts your aerial momentum? I really don't understand why jumping after using an aerial will increase your survivability. I have tested that impacts your aerial momentum and confirmed jumping will make you survive to a higher percent. Thre concept just seems silly to me. I jump upwards and get a horizontal momentum impact...

 

[-LzR-]

It's because jumping moves you towards the corner meaning you have to be launched farther away before dying. The aerial is there so you can fastfall and jump asap. If you are already at the corner you won't even need to jump, better save it for recovery.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I dont think thats exactly right lzr.

the best answer is that jumping Always impacts your aerial momentum and horizontal movement, you just only notice it blatently when youre trying to avoid dying.

Sonic is the best character I can think of to explain this. But it works with every character. If you jump to the left, and then try to drift back to the right, it takes some time for the left moving momentum to slow down and transition to right moving momentum.
But if you jump to the left, and then try to double jump to the right, there is no transition. and you essentially start moving to the left as soon as you initiate the second jump.

I would assume that is why jumping helps you not hit the blastzone.

 

[-LzR-]

I guess you are correct. I don't get to worry about those things so much because of bucket braking.

 

[ぱみゅ]

At moments like this I'd love that some of those japanese Brawl TAS players could be here to share a bit of that info only they know...

 

[Demna]

What's the difference between a Spike and Meteor smash other than that Meteor smash can be canceled via Meteor cancel? What are examples of both? And how do you meteor cancel exactly?

 

[-LzR-]

No difference. Footstool is pretty much the only spike that matters. Everything else is a meteor mash and can be meteor canceled by jumping or inputting upB a certain frames after being meteor mashed. The time it takes to be able to meteor mash depends on the character.

 

[Jamwa]

No difference. Footstool is pretty much the only spike that matters. Everything else is a meteor mash and can be meteor canceled by jumping or inputting upB a certain frames after being meteor mashed. The time it takes to be able to meteor mash depends on the character.

also spamming jump will increase the time it takes to meteor cancel

 

[Demna]

So when should a person ideally start jumping or pressing up-B. It should definitely not be during the beginning of the spike, but some spikes are too fast to not start mashing up from the beginning.

 

[smashkng]

Most characters meteor cancel first on frame 25. Exceptions I know are that for Ivysaur it's first frame 16, MK and Pit it's first frame 32 and for Wolf it's first on frame 60- You can buffer the jump or Up b (in Brawl there is a 10-frame buffer window), but IIRC if you press too early there is some penalty for x frames (don't remember how many frames, either way you're supposed never to mess up the meteor cancel anyway, right?=.

 

[-LzR-]

For pressing a jump I think you are unable to meteor cancel for another 40 frames which means you die. There is no punishment for upB so you can just spam it.
Zss has the fastest meteor cancel IIRC. She is probably even able to meteor cancel and punish the opponent afterwards.

 

[infiniteV115]

No difference. Footstool is pretty much the only spike that matters. Everything else is a meteor mash and can be meteor canceled by jumping or inputting upB a certain frames after being meteor mashed. The time it takes to be able to meteor mash depends on the character.

Just because you're using a Jigglypuff avatar, doesn't mean your pokemon references will go unnoticed.

 

[NickRiddle]

The window for meteor-cancelling is only for jump buttons.
If you have tap-jump on you can spam up and you'll jump ASAP.

 

[Jamwa]

The window for meteor-cancelling is only for jump buttons.
If you have tap-jump off you can spam up and you'll jump ASAP.

tap jump off? that's not a typo?

 

[NickRiddle]

Yes it is. Editing now.

 

[Demna]

The window for meteor-cancelling is only for jump buttons.
If you have tap-jump on you can spam up and you'll jump ASAP.

So basically if I spam up on the analog stick I am using the ideal meteor cancel?

 

[NickRiddle]

Umm... kinda sorta.
It's better if you learn your timing.

 

[Demna]

Umm... kinda sorta.
It's better if you learn your timing.

Why is it ideal if you spam the analog stick but not the X/Y button to jump? isn't it suppose to give the same command?

 

[teluoborg]

1. A meteor is a hit that sends you vertically downards +/- 10° iirc. Something that sends you 15° away from the vertical can not be meteor canceled and is a spike. The pure definition of a spike is "something that sends downwards but can not be meteor canceled".
Spikes don't exist in Brawl, only in Melee.

2. you want to know which character can meteor cancel when ? http://smashboards.com/threads/meteor-cancelling.307336/
and http://smashboards.com/threads/tap-jump-and-meteor-cancelling.287050/