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Brawl Information Compendium & Social

infiniteV115

Smash Hero
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There are different types of hitboxes in this game that have different properties, and we refer to these different types as 'priority', but no there's no priority in the traditional sense of the word (ie 'this move has higher priority than that move, therefore this move beats that move'). There's no 'high priority' or 'low priority' in this game, just different types of hitboxes.

I can summarize them for you really quickly.

1) Transcendent priority - Never clashes with anything. eg Meta Knight's jab, tilts, smashes, aerials, Falco's lasers, Ike's aerials
2) Article/projectile priority - Clashes with everything that isn't transcendent. eg bouncing suitpieces, MK's glide attack

3A) Normal air priority - Only clashes with things that have article/projectile priority. Any aerial that doesn't have either of the 2 priorities listed above will have this priority. This means that most aerials have this.

3B) Normal ground priority - Clashes with other things with normal ground priority, and also clashes with things with article/projectile priority.

Now lemme explain the distinction between air moves and ground moves, because every move can be classified with a combination of 2 terms. Air/ground, and normal/article/transcendent.
If a ground move clashes with another hitbox, if the difference in damage between the two moves is <8%, both moves will get cancelled out, the animations stop where they are. So, for example, if two Marth dsmashes clash with each other on the first hit, both will get cancelled out and the move stops before the 2nd hit comes out.
If the damage difference is 8% or more, the move with the higher damage (assuming of course it's a ground move) will not get cancelled, but the weaker one will. So, for example, a ZSS jab1, and a DK forward smash. They clash, the jab1 gets cancelled out and the animation stops. The DK fsmash will not get cancelled out, the animation doesn't stop, the move continues and hits ZSS and she dies.
Another good example is DK's/Snake's utilt breaking through tornado and hitting MK, cause they each do >10% and MK's individual nado hits do I think 1%, so the damage difference is >8%.

Air moves, regardless of whether they clash or not, will never have their animations cut short; individual hitboxes can be cancelled out but the entire move will continue. An obvious example is tornado; even if you clash with one of its many hits, the rest of the move continues unless MK gets hit like in the previous example. Another example is, say, ZSS fair (2 hits, a double kick) vs MK glide attack. If the glide attack clashes with the first hit of ZSS' fair, they cancel each other out, but the ZSS fair continues through its animation and the 2nd hit still comes out.

Ground moves consists of jabs, tilts, smashes and specials (B-moves) done on the ground.
Air moves consist of aerials, B-moves done in the air and special things like glide attacks.
Basically, it just depends on whether your character is in the air or on the ground.
 

Heartstring

Smash Legend
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Does move priority exist?
Everyone else has explained it perfectly already. But no, It doesnt work like that.

With this knowledge, If you ever hear someone saying something along the lines of 'OMG Metaknights ftilt has sooo much priority' you are legally allowed to punch them in the gut and call them a scrub.

(also It might be worth mentioning, There are 2 exceptions to the rules already explained. ZSS's Whip and MK's nado are apparently weird as **** due to being projectile hitboxes but attached to the character. Nick said about it in his video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCpxfUlkWwI
 

infiniteV115

Smash Hero
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In the rain.
MK's dash attack also has projectile priority. And ZSS' whip doesn't always have projectile priority (eg her sideB and fsmash don't, only her upB usmash and nair do)
But yeah I guess the point was that 'projectile priority' is just a name and doesn't necessarily apply only to projectiles.
 

infiniteV115

Smash Hero
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I don't think that's true and I wouldn't trust that site as a reliable source. It also fails to mention MK's dash attack as a move with article priority.
 

Calvonta

The secret weapon
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I wasn't born with sharingan and I've always been bad at reading what my opponent is going to do next. I've been trying to learn how to read better for a while now, i'm guessing it takes patience. And I've also have been looking around on Smashboards for threads and posts that relate.

Can anyone give me some advice on how to improve myself on this subject? That would be Dandy.
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
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Reading people is just guessing right.

Or... using all your past experience in the game to subconsciously put probabilities to every possibility that could happen and assessing if your opponent goes for risky low % success rates, safe high % success rates, or in the middle. Once you know that, you have an idea what to look for and you'll assume people will do what you think. That's why even the best players pick idiotic options in read situations.
 

ぱみゅ

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Watch a video, and for the span of one or two minutes or so (for the sake of obtaining more data), try to write down every movement of a player, including shields, rolls, jumps, empty jumps, Fast Fall, and how it reacts to certain repetitive actions from the opponent.
I'm pretty sure you'll find a pattern.

If you keep doing that you may even start doing it subconsciously without really thinking about it, and you'd have acquired a background thinking process that could improve your game.

Yeah, I've put waaaaay too much effort on this game even when I didn't played it.
 

infiniteV115

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Does Popo have a frame 5 standing grab, or 'grab armor' on frame 5 of his grab animation?
Cause I've been playing against an ICs player in my region recently, and I know ZSS' uncharged dsmash (-4 on block) isn't shieldgrabbable because ZSS has a frame 1 jab she can throw out afterwards...but it consistently seems to be failing against his ICs. He always grab-armors it.

The only other explanation I can think of is that I've been consistently spacing it so that her jab is too short to hit Popo on frame 1 but it reaches him on frame 2 and thus the grab armor.
 

Tesh

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Shieldstun is determined by the power of a move. If a move is stale and thus weaker, its got less shieldstun and shieldpush.

I imagine in that matchup, Dsmash can get pretty stale.
 

Heartstring

Smash Legend
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Oh really? I honestly didn't know that.
A question about staling, If a move hits a shield, does that count on the 'stale move list' or is it only when it actually connects with the opponent?
 

Tesh

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only stuff, shielding would be so broken if it staled stuff

u need to hit a character or stage element that can be damaged. im not sure of the rules of it, but i know things like grenades and wario's bike will stale moves when u hit them, bombs too
 

BSP

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May 23, 2009
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Browsing around the SSB4 boards, I'm getting the feeling that a lot of people think Brawl is super easy to pick up and be successful with...and I have no idea where they're getting that from.
 

Aidebit

Smash Journeyman
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Melee has a lot of advanced techniques you have to learn which may exaggerate the easiness of Brawl. Brawl isn't that easy though, just because it doesn't have a lot of techskill at lower levels doesn't mean that it's easy.
 

Heartstring

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Brawl is definitely harder in the mindgamey sense of things, Simply because the defending player has more options in brawl than in melee. but in terms of techskill melee has us beat
 

da K.I.D.

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brawl is simple. not easy.

people get the impression that brawl is easy because they compare technical aspects. like comparing DDDs infinite on bowser to melee sheik down throws or shoryuken FADC ultra in street fighter or a wolverine combo in marvel. All 4 do big damage or even kill, but the brawl version is tons easier. even simple stuff like marths/mario's shoryuken type move. in brawl? Up and B. in street fighter, you have to put in a bit of a complecated sequence of commands that many people still cant do 100% on command.

so in that respect, playing the game is simple, but having the thought process necessary to WIN at the game is most definitely not easy.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
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I prefer it the Brawl way. Technical skill is overrated and isn't the best way to compare skill between players.
 

Tesh

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the only reason for a game to have complicated inputs for moves is when you have waaay more moves than button combinations

its incredibly stupid when games with a few moves have complex commands for no reason. its like praising a game for having bad controls because it adds some kind of depth

with that said, melee>other fighters , for the most part its technical because you are doing simple, logical things very quickly
 

Pheta Ray

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There was this handy little chart I used to have where it listed all of the character's aerials and airdodges in frame speeds, I found it on this website but I lost the original file some time ago. Does anyone know this chart, and more importantly, where to find it?
 

M15t3R E

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This is great, thank you!

the only reason for a game to have complicated inputs for moves is when you have waaay more moves than button combinations

its incredibly stupid when games with a few moves have complex commands for no reason. its like praising a game for having bad controls because it adds some kind of depth

with that said, melee>other fighters , for the most part its technical because you are doing simple, logical things very quickly
With that said, it seemed more like an anti-melee argument until the 3rd paragraph which threw me for a loop. :confused:
 

Jamwa

Smash Champion
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Has anyone found out about extra inch di?
The rumour should be confirmed/disproved for Ness and/or Lucas players haha..
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
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Certain frames of pummel animations release characters a little further, or a little closer. It's impossible to consistently do, but it IS a thing. Shaky does it.
 

Jamwa

Smash Champion
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Ah ok, I just read Ref's thread on EIDI which claimed that it was executed by holding both the c-stick and analog stick away and upwards during the release, yet they cannot be held in the exact same direction.
Levitas disproved this as possible DI, so it's just timing the release after all...
Sounds like something that could be researched and figured out to be done semi-consistently based on timing mashing. Shaky would have that 'feel' for it.
Is it only possible (rather, is it only effective) on Ness due to his aerial movement during the release?
Thanks for the answer though : ]
 

infiniteV115

Smash Hero
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You can DI the pummel release (and DIing it is probably what affects your distance the most) but I imagine it's a combination of DI and timing that causes you to release to the maximal distance.
 

Shaky

Smash Ace
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Maximal, and yes it's mostly timing. I tested it a few years ago and there were certain frames of pummel release that gave Ness the "EIDI." Easiest way to test it is with Snake GR -> Utilt since it usually hits but with the right timing and DI you can avoid it.
 

Bobwithlobsters

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I can see there being different release distances based on timing but are we sure about DI? Also this could have a wider impact than just psi kids right? Actually all the good grab release options are out of air release aren't they... This could maybe impact bowser's and squirtle's ground release follow ups? Does this impact air release at all? I know lots of characters have air release follow ups.

Is there any way we could isolate testing for di pummel breaks operate from testing for timing pummel breaks?

Doesn't there need to be hit stun for there to be DI?
 

infiniteV115

Smash Hero
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You can either actually DI the pummel release by holding towards/away from the opponent or at every single ****ing pummel break I've gotten against my Marth-playing friends (while I was using Ness), the timing coincided with the direction of my DI.
 

Death Arcana

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2 questions

first
does anyone know the frame data for a wall tech and is it universal?
data i would like to know is total frames, invincibility start up and duration, and if there is any IASA frames

second
is it true that if you get hit while charging a smash your knockback increases 40 percent?
 

Bobwithlobsters

Smash Journeyman
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You can either actually DI the pummel release by holding towards/away from the opponent or at every single ****ing pummel break I've gotten against my Marth-playing friends (while I was using Ness), the timing coincided with the direction of my DI.
This is really bothering me because this just doesn't sound like DI at all. DI only effects angle during hit stun, not the distance you go. This could maybe be SDI but that still only takes place during hit stun and requires discrete inputs for each bit of movement. still not sure we understand this phenomena...
 
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