Brawl Information Compendium & Social

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
#81
as I remember, every character in the game can cancel the initial frames of a dash attack, with an up smash, and every character can perform an up smash while running (hyphen smash)

But due to the various effects and movements of different characters dash attacks, it results in highly varied affects to the dacuses of each character, from moving more than halfway across the stage with wolf, shiek, snake, and wario, to moving the same distance as a character hyphen smash, like with sonic and ddd, to gaw's whose dacus is actually completely motionless due to the frame by frame movement of his dash attack.

Each dacus has different viability, when compared to a few different factors.
 

Kishin

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
558
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
#82
I just realized I know what you're talking about because I already did it.

The CPU just cancelled a dashdance into a walk.

It's also possible to do it with a jab, a tilt, a smash (stutter step) or a taunt but the walk is the hardest.

It seems you have to input "->" the initial dash then buffer "<-" the opposite dash (which would create the dashdance) then let go and hold "<-" slightly to input the walk, which is crazy hard to do because the initial dash only lasts a few frames.

Sorry if I'm not clear but I don't fully understand the mechanism behind this "AT".
I got the video up. Big thanks to yoshq for recording it and stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ3zNAGYZkM

It happens at the very end. Thoughts?
 

Kishin

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
558
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
#85
It looks similar but I've been unable to recreate it with Falcon since his dash is much longer in duration. Also, the CPU didn't have any walking momentum at all like in the video. It was just a pivot into a short dash.
 

jpak

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Messages
1,495
#86
I've been playing a few melee players in brawl, and they ask if there is teching and one guy said there's alot more techs in melee than brawl? Is this true? What exactly is teching? If not, how can I prove that brawl has more. Also does melee have an equivalent "meta knight" as they complain about him too. Oh and is there anywhere I can find a video or post on how to smash DI out of moves like Pit and Marth's side B to just name a few.
 

NightSol

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
2
Location
Memphis, TN
#87
I'm a Brawl amateur, so I kinda know what I'm doing....and on the other hand I don't. I want to ask the advice of some of the better players on a few things.

1.) I play Brawl with my friends a lot, and my brother loves to pick Sonic. I main Ness, so Sonic isn't too much of a problem for me (Whether Ness outmatches Sonic, or my little brother isn't that good, I don't know), and the only item we normally leave on is the smash ball. I have lost close matches because of that annoying little "Here, I'll show you!" hedgehog's final smash is, at least for me, unavoidable. So my question, how do I get the heck out of the way of that.

2.) I also like Marth, but I'm having some trouble timing his Dair so that it counts as a meteor smash. How can I improve my timing.

3.) Finally, I've been hearing about Brawl +, is it worth getting or should I just stick with original Brawl.

Thanks!
 

Jane

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
5,594
Location
Ba Sing Se, EK
#88
thanks KID and J4pu! :D



I've been playing a few melee players in brawl, and they ask if there is teching and one guy said there's alot more techs in melee than brawl? Is this true? What exactly is teching? If not, how can I prove that brawl has more. Also does melee have an equivalent "meta knight" as they complain about him too. Oh and is there anywhere I can find a video or post on how to smash DI out of moves like Pit and Marth's side B to just name a few.

1. i think youre referring to teching as in, instantly rolling/standing up when you hit the ground after youve been hit. if thats the case then yes, there is more teching in melee than brawl. the reason for that is that in brawl, after you get hit and thrown into the air, the time period where you can't do anything (known as hitstun) is very short. in melee hitstun lasts much longer, and so if youre still in hitstun while you land, you can press L or R right when you hit the ground to quickly return to the upright position, as opposed to hitting the ground, laying, and then doing something. in brawl, almost immediately after you get hit by virtually any attack, you can airdodge/attack. if you decide to do one of the two (and almost everyone does), then there is no need to tech, because youre back to the neutral position, and when you land, you will just stand. its still possible to tech in brawl, but you will much more frequently tech in melee than in brawl.


2. no, melee does not have an equivalent of meta knight. in melee, the best character, fox, is one of the harder characters to learn and master. fox is also very easy to combo by most of the cast, and can be somewhat easily kept off of the stage. meta knight, on the other hand, is (considered by many) the easiest character to pick up, cannot be kept off of the stage, has very fast attacks, has efficient, quick killing moves, has no bad stages really no bad matches.

3. im not sure if theres a video, but check out swordgard's DI guide to learn how. its a bit confusing, i had to read it like 4 times myself before i actually understood it lol, but all the information concerning DI is there. the link is in the OP of this thread.
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
#90
I'm a Brawl amateur, so I kinda know what I'm doing....and on the other hand I don't. I want to ask the advice of some of the better players on a few things.

1.) I play Brawl with my friends a lot, and my brother loves to pick Sonic. I main Ness, so Sonic isn't too much of a problem for me (Whether Ness outmatches Sonic, or my little brother isn't that good, I don't know), and the only item we normally leave on is the smash ball. I have lost close matches because of that annoying little "Here, I'll show you!" hedgehog's final smash is, at least for me, unavoidable. So my question, how do I get the heck out of the way of that.

2.) I also like Marth, but I'm having some trouble timing his Dair so that it counts as a meteor smash. How can I improve my timing.

3.) Finally, I've been hearing about Brawl +, is it worth getting or should I just stick with original Brawl.

Thanks!

1. Sonics final smash is pretty much entirely unavoidable when you play against someone who actually knows how to use it properly (which your brother probably does). Youre best bet would probably be to grab the ledge and use that invincibility as much as possible, also rolling and spotdodging erratically on stage. basically just whoring out invincibility as much as possible to avoid getting hit.

2. making marths dair spike is more of a spacing issue than a timing issue, basically the only way to get better at it is to practice it and learn the range.

3. stick to normal brawl.
 

Kitamerby

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
5,729
Location
Las Vegas
#94
1-3 frames in melee ( i dont remember exactly)

10 frames in brawl.
Is it seriously that lenient? I could've sworn the Brawl+ team said they changed the powershielding window from 3 frames to 2, and that the powershielding window was 1 frame in Melee.

It can't be 10 frames. It seriously just can't. That'd just be way too lenient. 10 frames is a long time...

To further support it, I remember while testing frames with the debug code, shields take either 2 or 3 frames to expand once activated. It would make sense if the powershield window was limited only during that window (or for one extra frame).
 

teluoborg

Smash Otter
Premium
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
4,039
Location
Paris, France
NNID
teloutre
#97
Thanks, another question, why do player ports matter?
Because there are priorities determined by ports.

If two player grab each other at the same time the lower port will win.
Same if two players try to grab the ledge.

Else if some damage is done to two characters when one is grabbing the other both recieve damage but the higher port won't recieve knockback.

So always pick port 1 in singles (except vs Snake/Link/TL) and always pick ports 3 and 4 in doubles.
 

Delta Z

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
345
#98
Alright, I'm having a ton of trouble getting pivot grabs to work. Can anyone point me to a thread or video that explains exactly how to do them?
 

Shinjin

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
40
Because there are priorities determined by ports.

If two player grab each other at the same time the lower port will win.
Same if two players try to grab the ledge.

Else if some damage is done to two characters when one is grabbing the other both recieve damage but the higher port won't recieve knockback.

So always pick port 1 in singles (except vs Snake/Link/TL) and always pick ports 3 and 4 in doubles.
Curious, I saw someone else reference port priority with reference to Snake, and the only thing I could find was "omnigay" - which I'm not quite sure what that is!

What happens to Snake, Link, and Toon Link?
 

Shinjin

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
40
Got it! So when Meta Knight does the up throw, the grenade blows up when he's floating high? That's sick. haha 'preciate it man
 

culexus・wau

Purchased premium only to change name ><
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
4,636
Location
Irvine CA
How much does collides someone after getting hit affect momentum.

like

ex:

DDD dtilts lucario at 180 near the side of the stage but he collides with his partner [pit] and he lives.

I'm kinda curious lol
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
I always thought that that was because a character would fall through the plat form and be immediately airborne. than their airdodge shifts their actual body to put them above the platform again, and then they land on the plat.

I find its most noticible with Dk, because hes large and his airdodge noticibly shifts his body upwards.

Either way, I dont believe the time it would take to actually drop through a platform would affect that in any way. just alter the timing to actually shield cancel the fallthrough.
 

Attila_

The artist formerly known as 'shmot'
GRimer
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
6,028
Location
Melbourne, Australia
just wanted to know if anyone knew if was a thread detailing how much lag characters have after either landing, fast falling, or air dodging into the ground. from my experience, some characters do it much better than others, but i wouldnt mind looking at a list, if there was one.
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
1,796
Location
SoCal
I have this awful problem in my tournament matches. I choke really badly in my matches.

As in at the last few tournaments I've been to, I've been calm and won the first match, then my legs start to shake without me being able to control them, I fall into obvious stuff that I know I normally wouldn't, make input errors, palms start to get really sweaty, and then in general play awfully the following two and lost. My nerves really **** me up really often in tournament.

How can I try and keep calm during my tourney matches and not let my nerves get to me?
 

Rekeah

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
122
Location
Miami
So I need help, and I'm sure this is the only place I'll get it.

Me and my friend were arguing whether or not Mario plays more like Luigi than Samus. I argue that Mario is almost like a clone to Luigi, having most of his aerials and smashes near identical in almost every way (frame usage, etc.)

He argues that while Mario and Luigi might have similar moves, Samus is more similar to Luigi than Mario because of the way you "play with Samus." According to him, the main way you play with samus is "air game", which means you keep your opponent in the air, just like Luigi. Mario's playstyle is completely different (according to him) in which he uses "ground game which involves frequent aerial use and short hops."

His main arguement:
both chaacters should short hop often, as they thrive in the air. They both have safe "falling moves" (Luigi's nair = samus's uair, strategy-wise). Samus launches out missiles in order to space, while luigi does the same with aerials. Same basic strategy, different range. Their ground games are similar, involving jab cancels into other stuff, and lagless aerials into other moves. They both have big-hitting moves that are situational, and used when openings are found (shoryuken and charge beam). Although the charge beam has added function, it's much weaker. However, as a kill move, it functions similarly.

My main arguement:
alot of characters thrive in the air when shorthopped (at least half). spacing missiles and cancels and all that is way different than doing aerials, you say they have the same strategy, which is what... spacing? almost everybody can space properly with "aerials" or basically, anything they have. so that alone shouldnt be a reason to say they play the same. jab cancels into other stuff... jab into grabs? no thanks. lagless aerials into other moves, very vague; at least half the cast can "do" that. big hitting moves... charge beam takes a few frames to come out, and spans a wide horizontal range... shoryuken has a very tight window. the only thing in which i can completely agree with you is the safe falling moves.

I need help to convince this man! I spent nearly 2 hours trying to convince him, but to no avail. I'm SURE somebody here agrees with me!

tl;dr - Who plays more similar to LUIGI? SAMUS or MARIO?
 

Kitamerby

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
5,729
Location
Las Vegas
Mario is much more similar to Luigi than Samus.

Samus is a character based around camping with zair and missiles, and whittling down her opponents slowly because she absolutely can not kill ever. Pretty much everything about her, from kill potential to spacing ability to air speed is in a ridiculous contrast with Luigi. Their only similarity is their high short hops and their slow fall speeds.

Mario is much more similar to Luigi. Similar combos, spacing moves, etc. It's to be expected after all. Luigi is a "Luigified" clone of Mario.

Heck, the world's best Mario player at the time, Boss, switched to Luigi pretty seamlessly and has been performing quite well since.
 
Top