Brawl hack: Shield cancel (L-cancel).

[Ryusuta]

Quick question: if you use the l-cancel and directional dodge codes offline only, that won't effect anything online, right?

 

[Revven]

Quick question: if you use the l-cancel and directional dodge codes offline only, that won't effect anything online, right?

No, it won't, the only time it'll effect online is when you go online and even then, you'll get desynced if you do any of the code stuff with someone who doesn't have the codes on.

 

[Magus420]

I love you. Hitsun plox.

I mentioned this before, but I hope if someone does go to do this they're aware of it so that they can make a more useful code for it.

Between shield cancelling and wavedashing, increasing the overall stun considerably may not really be needed if at all or even be a good idea to create some decent combos. The main problem for good comboing that would need to be addressed is the early airdodging and A attacks the game lets you do before the stun actually finishes on tumble hits (I imagine it's after a certain part in the tumbling animation where it lets you do it).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsF_zFKyvkY

In the video you can see the attacks register as 'Consecutive Hits' even though it hits them after they already started and nearly complete an airdodge. Assuming the consecutive hits counter goes off the stun like it did before, this gives you an idea how much stun there probably would be if you couldn't just dodge or do an A attack in the middle of it anyway if it puts you into a tumble.

The few combos that do exist in the game already, like Sheik's f-tilt lock and such, generally involve weaker/stale hits that don't put you into a tumble, and weak hits that don't knock you down don't allow the early dodging and A attacks (again, the interrupt is linked to the tumble animation) so you actually remain fully stunned and unable to do anything for the stun's entire duration like in the previous games.



Increasing the game's comboing ability could actually be as simple as disabling that one thing, and not just increasing overall stun and then trying to balance it as well which could be a lot of work.

More importantly, only increasing hitstun in general would likely just make the existing weak hit combos even better and create more of those dumb "lol-single-move-spam" type weak hit combos than anything else really, and is compounded by the fact that you can only A/SDI weak hits and can't DI them normally to change the direction you get sent like you can on tumble hits.

Speaking of which, it might not be a bad idea to try out changing that as well so you could safely add some more hitstun in general, though things like Falco's & Pikachu's chaingrabs and Sheik's f-tilt lock would most likely no longer work, since they depend highly on not being able to DI them effectively.

 

[Ryusuta]

No, it won't, the only time it'll effect online is when you go online and even then, you'll get desynced if you do any of the code stuff with someone who doesn't have the codes on.

That's what I figured, but you can never be too careful, you know?

(...Of course, I say that, but I had already tried out all of the codes before I asked. )

Thanks!

 

[Shaya]

L cancelling is amazing.

 

[Ojanya]

So to use these codes you need USB gecko?

 

[What?]

I've been calling the addition of these hacks a sort of Beta Test for a new Brawl.

I've been calling it Brawl 1.5.

I think with the Shield Cancel and No Tripping, it's leveled up to Brawl 1. 75.

I can't wait to get these codes implemented. I need to hook up with my friends and do it up.

 

[Revven]

So to use these codes you need USB gecko?

*Facepalm* No, you don't! Why do people keep thinking you do!? Ugh.

Read this, then you will be educated on what you need.

 

[Phantom Wings]

Here's the details on the L Canceling code:

-Anytime, if you press R, it will start a timer that lasts exactly 7 frames.
-If you land(attacking) while that timer is active, for every frame of the landing animation, 1 will get added(doubling it)
-The moment you press R, it will start another timer for exactly 30 frames that will disallow you to use the R cancel again until it reaches 0
-If the game speed is modified at all, the timers will adjust accordingly

I tried to follow the specifications you guys set up and that was the result. I don't think I made any mistakes.

Oh, and I tested both codes again with IC, they seem to work fine(brawl and training) so maybe you have one of the older codes enabled as well?

 

[Makkun]

Here's the details on the L Canceling code:

-Anytime, if you press R, it will start a timer that lasts exactly 7 frames.
-If you land(attacking) while that timer is active, for every frame of the landing animation, 1 will get added(doubling it)
-The moment you press R, it will start another timer for exactly 30 frames that will disallow you to use the R cancel again until it reaches 0
-If the game speed is modified at all, the timers will adjust accordingly

I tried to follow the specifications you guys set up and that was the result. I don't think I made any mistakes.

Oh, and I tested both codes again with IC, they seem to work fine(brawl and training) so maybe you have one of the older codes enabled as well?

Very nice. I haven't had a chance to try out the new code, but I'm excited to see how it works! (:

Also, I really think you should consider Magus's explanation for how to make hitstun work. It seems like it would be really simple so it shouldn't long, even though I know you said you didn't want to make Melee codes anymore. Just throwing it out there.

 

[Revven]

Very nice. I haven't had a chance to try out the new code, but I'm excited to see how it works! (:

Also, I really think you should consider Magus's explanation for how to make hitstun work. It seems like it would be really simple so it shouldn't long, even though I know you said you didn't want to make Melee codes anymore. Just throwing it out there.

It technically isn't even a Melee code because hitstun also existed in Smash 64 and it exists in Brawl. We just want the hitstun to last longer than it already does so we can combo.

 

[Makkun]

It technically isn't even a Melee code because hitstun also existed in Smash 64 and it exists in Brawl. We just want the hitstun to last longer than it already does so we can combo.

Well yeah, I know that. But it seems these "Brawl enhancing" codes are being labeled as "Melee codes", so for the sake of simplicity I'm just referring to them as such.

I fear that hitstun will break the game, or make it very very Melee-esque. I really hope it works out though, added hitstun would add so much depth to combos.

 

[Wind Owl]

Magus (as always, lol) seems right on. I really wish I had taken more time to learn assembly D:
Never really stuck with it very long... Plus I would need a Gecko to actually hack the codes... Perhaps in the future I'll get around to doing these myself.

 

[Locke)]

For everyone that talks about bringing hacks into the tournament scene:

Release combo videos once this is all figured out. Anyone that sees a legit brawl combo system coming out of this will support it.

Nothing in brawl can really compare to the satisfaction you got from pulling off a beastly combo in melee and that's really all I'm from melee diehards right now.. Whoever gets hold of this hack, once combos are possible, show the world.

 

[Wind Owl]

Will someone please confirm that the L-cancel hack works as it should? It sounds precisely as it worked in Melee, and Phantom says there's no known glitches with it, so... Anyone?

EDIT: Also test whether or not Nana can L-cancel (although I'm not too familiar with ICs... maybe their aerials are fast enough already?)
EDIT2: Phantom, if you hit R again, will it use the same instance for the timers, or will it create a new one? I assume with code that low-level it would just use the old addresses, but I'm just making sure there are no memory leaks you might have missed.
EDIT3: Are L and Z useable for L-canceling? Because some people much prefer those buttons.
EDIT4: Phantom, IF POSSIBLE, could you make frames of hitlag (when both characters are frozen in time) accept L-cancel inputs, but not count towards the 7 frames? For example, if a move has 10 frames of hitlag, you can push R anywhere during those 10 frames and then if you still haven't pressed it, anywhere during the next seven frames.

 

[wangston]

Wow that was a sweet video.

Sorry you can't add hit suns all chain grabs will be broken. Falco could chain grab to like 100% and still hit you with a dair spike. And with L-canceling and only one airdodge that leaves you open you will be able to string together attacks better.

 

[Vulcan55]

It works fine, but it seems that the window to press L/R is too early and there is still too much lag, imo.
I believe that in Melee you had only a few frames to L-cancel, but it was once you hit the ground. (Maybe, idk)
Once you hit it, you would pop back up pretty fast.
I prefer S-cancel v1 because everybody knows:

Brawl's broken defense + 64's broken offense = BALANCE
mirite?

 

[Wind Owl]

Personally, I'm with you, but a lot of people seem to want their good old fashioned Melee L-cancel back.

And is it too early, as in you'll MISS it if you tap R too close to the ground? And what do you mean by too much lag?

Could you make another HQ vid for us? :D

 

[Bowser King]

O_O this has been 1 weird week....

-Bowser King

 

[Hentekorino]

Hitstun please.

 

[Wind Owl]

Hitstun please.

... Oh boy...

 

[Vulcan55]

And is it too early, as in you'll MISS it if you tap R too close to the ground?

Yeah, to get it you have to press L while you are still a ways in the air.
It just doesn't feel natural to do consistently.

And what do you mean by too much lag?

The lag that is reduced is not enough, imo.
Fast moves / characters are still pretty fast.
Like Luigi, has hardly any use for it because the difference in lag between an L-canceled aerial and a non L-canceled move is very little. But moves like Ike's or Pikas Bair don't really gain enough.

Could you make another HQ vid for us? :D

I guess.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

It works fine, but it seems that the window to press L/R is too early and there is still too much lag, imo.
I believe that in Melee you had only a few frames to L-cancel, but it was once you hit the ground. (Maybe, idk)
Once you hit it, you would pop back up pretty fast.
I prefer S-cancel v1 because everybody knows:

Brawl's broken defense + 64's broken offense = BALANCE
mirite?

It was 20 frames in Melee I believe.

 

[Wind Owl]

... No... it was hitlag (if applicable) + 6 + 1 (the exact frame during which you land).

 

[Magus420]

Sorry you can't add hit suns all chain grabs will be broken. Falco could chain grab to like 100% and still hit you with a dair spike. And with L-canceling and only one airdodge that leaves you open you will be able to string together attacks better.

If you make non-tumble hits DIable like normal then you could probably add more hitstun safely since things like Falco's chain grab would most likey not even work for very long if at all since you could actually be allowed to DI the throw before needing to wait till you're at high enough damage to be knocked into a tumble by it.

Here's the details on the L Canceling code:

-Anytime, if you press R, it will start a timer that lasts exactly 7 frames.
-If you land(attacking) while that timer is active, for every frame of the landing animation, 1 will get added(doubling it)
-The moment you press R, it will start another timer for exactly 30 frames that will disallow you to use the R cancel again until it reaches 0
-If the game speed is modified at all, the timers will adjust accordingly

I tried to follow the specifications you guys set up and that was the result. I don't think I made any mistakes.

How does the timer work with freezeframes/hitlag?

I imagine the best way to truly replicate it would be to not have the timers start until immediately after the hitlag if L/R/Z is pressed during hitlag, but if it was pressed outside of hitlag it continues to count down normally during hitlag because it's already begun counting.

That way if you press it before hitlag the hitlag will still use up the 7 frame timer, so if you press the l-cancel before the hitlag on a very high hitlag attack like Ganon's d-air you will miss the l-cancel. If pressed during the hitlag though, the extra freeze frames aren't counted which is how it worked in Melee.

 

[Wind Owl]

Yeah, to get it you have to press L while you are still a ways in the air.
It just doesn't feel natural to do consistently.

It might have something to do with Brawl's accursed floatiness...

The lag that is reduced is not enough, imo.
Fast moves / characters are still pretty fast.
Like Luigi, has hardly any use for it because the difference in lag between an L-canceled aerial and a non L-canceled move is very little. But moves like Ike's or Pikas Bair don't really gain enough.

Yes, that's why I love S-canceling. It's the same 9-frame (at this point I hope it's 9 frames; I've been throwing that number around a lot lol) lag for ALL moves, so only the moves that need it get it, and they get enough of a reduction. IMO that + Brawl's defensive options (+ fixed hitstun, if we can get it) would create a perfect balance between Brawl 1.0's ******** campy defensive game and SSB64's borderline unfair offensive game.

I guess.

<3

EDIT: Magus, what's your take on S-canceling?

 

[Makkun]

I haven't had a chance to try out the new L-canceling code, but when I was playing with S-canceling last night, it didn't seem NEARLY as broken as I thought it was going to be. Then again, none of my friends play Brawl competitively beyond the point of being average when Melee was around.

S-canceling added a lot of speed that is crucial to the development of a lot of characters, especially with wavedashing. (Sonic for top tier lol) - Even though I'm sure the pros would destroy the game with it... but then again we don't be able to know for a while.

Does anybody know of any pros that have hacked Wiis or are willing to hack theirs in order to test this out?

 

[Wind Owl]

I think Gimpyfish was interested in this (or at least WDing in Brawl) at one point, but you know how he is about things >___>

 

[Makkun]

I think Gimpyfish was interested in this (or at least WDing in Brawl) at one point, but you know how he is about things >___>

Yeah. >_>; Hopefully he decides to go through with the hack. I would love to face him online. XD When I played Melee, I never got a chance to go up against any big-name players. So this would be pretty interesting!

 

[kupo15]

S canceling is awesome and Im happy atm but if we could tweak it like melee more that would be cool.

For those who havent tried it, here is the differences:
You can press shield at ANY time during your lag to cancel so its not like a missed L cancel
It cancels with the shield which could mess you up with buffered rolls

Im pretty sure there should be a way to disable this when you hit the ground and make the window of the new code shorter.

Will this work to replace the shield? Figure out how Pit's glide cancel works and use that code to cancel instead of shield. Its more responsive.

Anyway, this is awesome.

 

[Wind Owl]

Nah, if it worked like glide cancel it would be devoid of ALL margin of technical error. The fact that you can accidentally dodge in any direction is a good thing IMO.

 

[Makkun]

S canceling is awesome and Im happy atm but if we could tweak it like melee more that would be cool.

For those who havent tried it, here is the differences:
You can press shield at ANY time during your lag to cancel so its not like a missed L cancel
It cancels with the shield which could mess you up with buffered rolls

Im pretty sure there should be a way to disable this when you hit the ground and make the window of the new code shorter.

Will this work to replace the shield? Figure out how Pit's glide cancel works and use that code to cancel instead of shield. Its more responsive.

Anyway, this is awesome.

You mean when you land while you're doing his glide attack, and there is no landing lag? I think that might just be the properties of the move, maybe it deliberately has no landing lag. But then again I'm not positive, I don't have a USB Gecko.

 

[kupo15]

yea, you glide attack and at any point when you land during the glair, everything cancels. Idk how the glair cancel works lol.

 

[Makkun]

yea, you glide attack and at any point when you land during the glair, everything cancels. Idk how the glair cancel works lol.

I think the glair might just not have any landing lag. I'm not sure what this would mean for lag-canceling, but I don't think it would be applicable to normal aerials. ONCE AGAIN, I'm not positive, it's just my speculation.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

can you combine the L cancel one with S cancel? so that you have to time the L button and it gets rid of all lag (but doesn't make your shield show up)?

this way, at least there is some timing involved and you get rewarded for it tremendously :D

 

[kupo15]

yea, is there a way to find out how autocanceling works and change it from auto to a button? That seems very possible

 

[CT Chia]

im holding the first "brawl+" side event at my tourney on the 31st using this code amongst others

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197124

 

[Cerozero]

The only Problem I have with the S-Cancel code is that it might give Snake too much of a boost. When you are low to the ground you can nair into a grab every time and his dair works pretty well too. If we go for zero lag Smooth Landings like in 64 there might be a similar problem with Snake. Other than that it works great even though I am not a fan of waiting for the shield to drop I can bear with it.

 

[Spinner]

A lot of Brawl Hacking going on lately. "Creating a Character" would be sure to follow. Nah, that might be too advanced right now. Anyway, I would never put my console at risk and actually try these things out. However, I must admit they are fun to watch.

 

[Cerozero]

A lot of Brawl Hacking going on lately. "Creating a Character" would be sure to follow. Nah, that might be too advanced right now. Anyway, I would never put my console at risk and actually try these things out. However, I must admit they are fun to watch.

No risk involved the only thing you are risking is never being able to enjoy this for yourself.