Brawl Character Match-Up chart

[gantrain05]

i feel this ness vs zelda is the other way, ness has a freakin huge advantage over Zelda in my book. his Fair counters every singly zelda arial, and it kicks her shields ***. and when she even uses Dins fire its an easy 15-25% health recovered (im not sure on the exact amount) and proper use of the yoyo edgegaurd is enuf to make zelda have to use her UpB to recover which leaves her way way open. the only way a zelda has ever defeated my ness is when they turned to shiek. other than that its been pretty one sides for me.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Of course I am somewhat biased towards Wario. I try to throw that bias out the window when it comes to analyzing matchups and I think I do a better job of that then 70% of people that post in here. And no one can honestly come in here and say they are truly neutral towards every character, so don't go pointing fingers at me.

Of course you're biased towards Wario, just as I am biased toward Yoshi. That's why we're just going in circles at this point...
The way we're debating right now won't go much of anywhere. Let's outline the matchup's main points:

- Yoshi spams eggs and forces Wario to approach.
- Wario approaches with an aerial.
- Yoshi's aerials outrange Wario's.

See what I mean? By showing what happens with each scenario, it's easy to mimic what would actually happen in a competitive match.

 

[gantrain05]

Of course you're biased towards Wario, just as I am biased toward Yoshi. That's why we're just going in circles at this point...
The way we're debating right now won't go much of anywhere. Let's outline the matchup's main points:

- Yoshi spams eggs and forces Wario to approach.
- Wario approaches with an aerial.
- Yoshi's aerials outrange Wario's.

See what I mean? By showing what happens with each scenario, it's easy to mimic what would actually happen in a competitive match.

meh. wario wins. its over. yoshi is just too easy to edgegaurd. and wario has gay fast combo's and a Dair to Fsmash that pwns yoshi.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Are you kidding me?
Yoshi is never easy to edgeguard.
Yoshi has combo breakers and his own fast combos.
Dair to Fsmash? Lol.

If you don't know the matchup beyond a single character, try to hold your comments back.

 

[DanGR]

Dang it!

I played a great match of shiek Vs. Ike against Bo4KT... shiek won pretty comfortably, and it showed EXACTLY how the match goes normally...

... but it took 3:06 seconds.... 6 seconds too long for me to save the replay and send it to DanGR to prove my point.

oh well... I still stand by it... and STRONGLY suggest that IvanEva change his chart to read that:
Sheik > Ike

I'm not against Ike<shiek. I just don't want any discussion to stay relevant.

Of course you're biased towards Wario, just as I am biased toward Yoshi. That's why we're just going in circles at this point...
The way we're debating right now won't go much of anywhere. Let's outline the matchup's main points:

- Yoshi spams eggs and forces Wario to approach.
- Wario approaches with an aerial.
- Yoshi's aerials outrange Wario's.

See what I mean? By showing what happens with each scenario, it's easy to mimic what would actually happen in a competitive match.

That's not necessarily true. Wario is fast and has enough air mobility to stay outside of yoshi's range while at the same time being close enough to punish any egg throws. as far as I'm concerned, yoshi has to approach so Wario won't power up his waft. Egg throw is VERY easy to dodge, and if he can do it enough to power his waft, it's a big plus for Wario. I played as Wario for about a week to study him, and I could outcamp Zelda! I just had to dodge the Din's to power up my waft. It got to the point where that's the only move I'd do until she approached me.

 

[Puddin]

Isn't it sad how Ganondorf has not a single advantage over ANYONE? some neutral matches but thats not worth noting

 

[Mr. Escalator]

You guys shouldnt dismiss the egg toss. I play G&W, and it's not as easy as you'd like to claim to dodge them and then punish. Egg toss at point blank was a surprising twist.

And, whats wrong with Yoshi approaching? His Bair has the range on Wario and can be used in quick succession.

 

[CobraWolf]

There is no way Wolf is neutral vs. Snake. Has anyone seen the GERM vs. DSF videos?

Snake's aerials priority over Wolf's almost every time.
Also, Snake is a heavy character making him hard to kill and since Wolf doesn't have the best killing moves at his disposal, this match-up is definitely in favor of snake.

Not to mention their differences in recovery...

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

i feel this ness vs zelda is the other way, ness has a freakin huge advantage over Zelda in my book. his Fair counters every singly zelda arial, and it kicks her shields ***. and when she even uses Dins fire its an easy 15-25% health recovered (im not sure on the exact amount) and proper use of the yoyo edgegaurd is enuf to make zelda have to use her UpB to recover which leaves her way way open. the only way a zelda has ever defeated my ness is when they turned to shiek. other than that its been pretty one sides for me.

in fairness.. I've played against decent lucases... but nesses are lacking.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

There is no way Wolf is neutral vs. Snake. Has anyone seen the GERM vs. DSF videos?

Snake's aerials priority over Wolf's almost every time.
Also, Snake is a heavy character making him hard to kill and since Wolf doesn't have the best killing moves at his disposal, this match-up is definitely in favor of snake.

Not to mention their differences in recovery...

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=2LK5G5zZkx8

You're right. I feel it isnt neutral.
In fact, I would suggest Wolf has the advantage.

Wolf is a heavy character.
Damage dealing is in Wolf's favor.

There is very little difference in recoveries. I would have to say Wolf's is better in this case.

 

[talkingbeatles]

Okey dokey Since no one's telling me why, I think I'll just quickly post a couple of points.

Squirtle excels in the air, and beats Falcon in almost every level, except for above him. All his other air moves seem to out prioritize Falcon.

Squirtle is small and therefore hard to hit with a knee or with forward tilt.

He's hard to approach unless you're using Falcon Kick, but at low percents, Squirtle recovers quick enough to get a hit off, because of the move's stupid lag.

Falcon has his down tilt which works on Squirtle and his u-tilt is good for edgeguarding, but there is no way he's got an advantage.

Falcon just doesn't do well against small characters.

 

[DMG]

Of course you're biased towards Wario, just as I am biased toward Yoshi. That's why we're just going in circles at this point...
The way we're debating right now won't go much of anywhere. Let's outline the matchup's main points:

- Yoshi spams eggs and forces Wario to approach.
- Wario approaches with an aerial.
- Yoshi's aerials outrange Wario's.

See what I mean? By showing what happens with each scenario, it's easy to mimic what would actually happen in a competitive match.

Number 1- Spamming eggs does not force Wario to approach... at all. It is not that big of a deal and IDK why people keep thinking this somehow limits or shuts down Wario's game by a noticeable amount. It is a minor nuisance to Wario AT BEST.

Number 2- Wario doesn't always have to approach with an aerial. He can and should mix it up with other things, including airdodges, ground moves, and empty SH. Don't limit Wario's choices and I won't limit Yoshi's.

Number 3- In close combat, range is not as important as speed. Wario works on getting close and using his speed to overwhelm you. Range is usually irrelevant in close combat and the characters that do have an advantage over Wario almost always have at least one of these 3 criteria:

1. Great Projectiles
2. Great aerial priority with little lag
3. Great close combat with better range

Yoshi possesses none of these attributes. The only reason Yoshi might have an advantage or have a chance at being even is if the "Infinite" is shown to be truly inescapable. Even then, it is not the easiest thing to pull off with a very strict time frame and should not affect this matchup too much. If Wario can deal with the IC CG, then this shouldn't be a hassle either.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Yoshi possess all of those. Whether you actively acknowledge his projectile's use is of no consequence to us. We know how it works, and I doubt you face many good Yoshi's if you dont see this. Yoshi has great aerial priority, and has little lag with all of his things with the exception of the fair. And speed? We're talking about Yoshi here. He out ranges you AND out speeds you. I mentioned how fast his tilts and jabs are, but you sorta ignored that, I guess.

Plus the CG matters.
If it doesnt work, Yoshi now has an inescapable combo regardless. Release grab -> Usmash. If you get grabbed, you die, essentially.

 

[DMG]

Yoshi possess all of those. Whether you actively acknowledge his projectile's use is of no consequence to us. We know how it works, and I doubt you face many good Yoshi's if you dont see this. Yoshi has great aerial priority, and has little lag with all of his things with the exception of the fair. And speed? We're talking about Yoshi here. He out ranges you AND out speeds you. I mentioned how fast his tilts and jabs are, but you sorta ignored that, I guess.

Will you consider my POV? I have not had a problem with his Egg Toss and I don't see how I am automatically wrong or how my input is worthless because other people have trouble with them. I have no problem evaluating my opinion if another serious Wario main comes in here and says he has a hard time dealing with Egg Toss and explains exactly why he has trouble. Until that happens or until someone reveals how good it is supposed to be, I am sticking with what I believe.

Yoshi's priority is not that good, he is for the most part slower in the air and on the ground, and he does have lag on a lot of moves just as Wario has lag on most moves.

I mentioned Wario's Fsmash, Chomp, Dtilt, Jab, Grab, but you ignored that, I guess.

Plus the CG matters.
If it doesnt work, Yoshi now has an inescapable combo regardless. Release grab -> Usmash. If you get grabbed, you die, essentially.

If it doesn't work, then how is it an instant death?

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Will you consider my POV? I have not had a problem with his Egg Toss and I don't see how I am automatically wrong or how my input is worthless because other people have trouble with them. I have no problem evaluating my opinion if another serious Wario main comes in here and says he has a hard time dealing with Egg Toss and explains exactly why he has trouble. Until that happens or until someone reveals how good it is supposed to be, I am sticking with what I believe.

Its fine if you havent had trouble with it, but you're dismissing it when you have two other people saying it's a quality projectile. Theres a lack of Wario mains who frequent this thread, and even less have probably played a quality Yoshi.

So don't make the claim that Yoshi's projectile is easy to avoid if you havent gone up against it.

Yoshi's priority is not that good, he is for the most part slower in the air and on the ground, and he does have lag on a lot of moves just as Wario has lag on most moves.

Are you kidding me?
Yoshi's priority is quite good in the air, probably beating out any of Wario's aerials except the Dair. Maybe even that, as Yoshi's Uair beats G&W's key.

Yoshi is quicker in horizontal aerial movement than Wario is.
he doesnt fall as fast and he's a floaty character, meaning he can stay in the air, where he's more effective, longer. On the ground, he is quicker with attacks, as far as Im concerned.

I mentioned Wario's Fsmash, Chomp, Dtilt, Jab, Grab, but you ignored that, I guess.

You never mentioned that to me.
If it wasnt directed at me, then I dont have much interest.

Now that it has been directed at me, here we go.

Wario's Fsmash is slow, slower than Yoshi's. All it has is SA.
Chomp doesnt matter much because Yoshi has enough range to keep away from such a close attack.
Dtilt is slow. Yoshi's is quicker.
Jab? Yoshi's has more speed.
Wario's grab is quicker, but has little range.

Yoshi is quicker here.

If it doesn't work, then how is it an instant death?

Learn to read.
I said that even if he doesnt have the CG, Yoshi still has an inescapable combo that is release grab -> Usmash. It's an instant death if you get grabbed and you're in killing range.

 

[CobraWolf]

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=2LK5G5zZkx8

You're right. I feel it isnt neutral.
In fact, I would suggest Wolf has the advantage.

Wolf is a heavy character.
Damage dealing is in Wolf's favor.

There is very little difference in recoveries. I would have to say Wolf's is better in this case.

Ok, so in that game Lucien played Wolf very offensively while DSF seemed to be just trying to keep up, which isn't too hard with Snake.

It's tough to judge match-up advantages by videos I suppose.

Brawl is such a new game, it is difficult to fully understand characters and their advantages.
I see your point.

However, I would not say damage dealing is in Wolf's favor. Snake has more combo potentials than Wolf, therefore, when he's started a successful attack he can follow it up with extra damage more often than Wolf can.

This is why in so many of the GERM vs. DSF videos, it'll seem like GERM has landed more successful confrontations, yet he has more %/deaths than DSF.

 

[DMG]

Its fine if you havent had trouble with it, but you're dismissing it when you have two other people saying it's a quality projectile. Theres a lack of Wario mains who frequent this thread, and even less have probably played a quality Yoshi.

Fine, I will have Blue sHell personally come here and discuss this. He is a Wario main with plenty of experience against most characters and I would have no problem listening to his opinions, even if they totally conflict with mine.

So don't make the claim that Yoshi's projectile is easy to avoid if you havent gone up against it.

Thing is, I have played against it. IMO, it is not that great of a move. I don't have trouble avoiding it with an airdodge or by just moving out of the way. 2 people vs 1 is not that big of a majority, especially since the 2 aren't exactly experienced with my character.

Yoshi is quicker in horizontal aerial movement than Wario is.
he doesnt fall as fast and he's a floaty character, meaning he can stay in the air, where he's more effective, longer. On the ground, he is quicker with attacks, as far as Im concerned.

I will pull up frame data for both characters if I have to. Maybe those numbers will convince you better than I can.

You never mentioned that to me.
If it wasnt directed at me, then I dont have much interest.

I just said that to get people to remember Wario's ground game, not directed towards anyone in specific. It does look directed towards you, but I was just making a parody of what you said and applied it towards everyone.

Wario's Fsmash is slow, slower than Yoshi's. All it has is SA.
Chomp doesnt matter much because Yoshi has enough range to keep away from such a close attack.
Dtilt is slow. Yoshi's is quicker.
Jab? Yoshi's has more speed.
Wario's grab is quicker, but has little range.

Yoshi is quicker here.

I will give Frame Data soon for both. And there is no way Wario's Fsmash or Dtilt is slower than Yoshi's... They are NOTICEABLY faster even without taking a close frame by frame look.

Learn to read.
I said that even if he doesnt have the CG, Yoshi still has an inescapable combo that is release grab -> Usmash. It's an instant death if you get grabbed and you're in killing range.

Hey, lets not resort to insults. I am seriously trying to have an intellectual debate and your personal comments contribute NOTHING to it. And BTW, you said it is an instant death, there was no reference to Wario being in his killing range.

 

[Crackle]

I feel that it is imperative to do so and therefore would like to remind everyone that cookies are delicious

Thank you for your time.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Thing is, I have played against it. IMO, it is not that great of a move. I don't have trouble avoiding it with an airdodge or by just moving out of the way. 2 people vs 1 is not that big of a majority, especially since the 2 aren't exactly experienced with my character.

If you get the impression that egg toss is a lackluster move, you haven't been playing against the right Yoshis. A good egger should throw an egg where the opponent is and plan for a dodge so that they can punish it. Zomg Yoshi actually has a pressure game! XD
Also, egg-spamming is like all projectiles in that it refreshes all of Yoshi's moves. Therefore, his attacks will become stronger if he uses them, throws a few eggs, then uses them again... this is where lack of a projectile hurts Wario.

I will give Frame Data soon for both. And there is no way Wario's Fsmash or Dtilt is slower than Yoshi's... They are NOTICEABLY faster even without taking a close frame by frame look.

Let's see...
Wario's f-smash is faster, Yoshi's d-smash is faster if Wario is in front and slower if Wario is behind, u-smash doesn't matter since Yoshi's doesn't hit grounded opponents anyway.
Yoshi's f-tilt is faster, Wario's u-tilt is faster, Yoshi's d-tilt is faster.
That would be 3-2 in attack speed, in Yoshi's favor. Not much, I know, but if either character knows they're going to be outspeeded (not a word) then they should just use a tilt. Apparently Yoshi's tilts are faster, if you want to argue that, but honestly there will never be a situation where both characters are f-smashing each other at the same time. Both characters have too good of an aerial game to be wasting their time running around at ground level.

 

[fissionprime]

could it please be marked down that ddd<<ice climbers because the ice climbers absolutely destroy him.

 

[Swordplay]

After reading all the responses to link vs marth I still say it is neutral because link falls very fast making zair spammable. marth will just have a hard time approaching in my opinion. EVEN though some of you think marth has an advantage because he is higher tier in this matchup good links will spam zair and fastfall.

In response to link vs metaknight. WHY would anyone say link has an advantage (someone actually said that)
The person who said this is a dumb**** and I won't quote them because I don't want to make them feel bad.

Links recovery is bad so metaknight can easily gimp. I wouldn't give metaknight a checkmark. I would give him a SUPER BOLD CHECKMARK!!!!!!

I also would give Falco a SUPERBOLD Checkmark becaues he outspams and has reflector.

so I would say in response to the link posts

Link vs marth neutral
Link vs Falco Big advantage Falco
Link vs Metaknight Big advantage Metaknight

There was a point in time where I thought Samus vs Marth was even for same reasons as link (projectiles and zair) but I feel that marth has a much easier time cutting into samus because she is a slow faller so check to marth link the grid says. This is NOT the case with link though which is why he can spam zair alot.


On the topic of yoshi vs wario. Because of the CG i would give it to yoshi
also wario is like jiggly and will go to air alot alowing yoshi to Dair for OUCH!
By the way what has priority Bike or eggroll?

 

[DMG]

If you get the impression that egg toss is a lackluster move, you haven't been playing against the right Yoshis. A good egger should throw an egg where the opponent is and plan for a dodge so that they can punish it. Zomg Yoshi actually has a pressure game! XD
Also, egg-spamming is like all projectiles in that it refreshes all of Yoshi's moves. Therefore, his attacks will become stronger if he uses them, throws a few eggs, then uses them again... this is where lack of a projectile hurts Wario.

Egg Toss refreshes only if it hits Wario. Spamming it doesn't change the fact that Wario can still dodge them easily. And how is Yoshi gonna hit me while I am dodging when he is tossing the egg from a distance? Not only is there lag on the actual toss, but by the time I am through dodging an egg, Yoshi should never be in an actual position to punish me.

Trust me, if Wario had a real projectile, he would be broken. I am actually glad they didn't give him one.

Let's see...
Wario's f-smash is faster, Yoshi's d-smash is faster if Wario is in front and slower if Wario is behind, u-smash doesn't matter since Yoshi's doesn't hit grounded opponents anyway.
Yoshi's f-tilt is faster, Wario's u-tilt is faster, Yoshi's d-tilt is faster.
That would be 3-2 in attack speed, in Yoshi's favor. Not much, I know, but if either character knows they're going to be outspeeded (not a word) then they should just use a tilt. Apparently Yoshi's tilts are faster, if you want to argue that, but honestly there will never be a situation where both characters are f-smashing each other at the same time. Both characters have too good of an aerial game to be wasting their time running around at ground level.

Wario's Grab comes out at frame 6, his Nair comes out on frame 3, Dtilt comes out at frame 5, and Chomp comes out on frame 8. I don't have Yoshi's frame data but when I get it I will put it on here so we can compare them.

You're right about being on the ground, but Wario doesn't mind it too much if he can get an Fsmash kill.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Well, honestly, there's not that much that remains to be said about this matchup... you think it's neutral, I think it's in Yoshi's favor... and nothing's getting discussed that hasn't already been said.
Let me propose a newish idea... you go to the Yoshi boards and ask them about the matchup, and I go to the Wario boards and do the same thing. Chances are we'll both get flamed but it has to happen sooner or later, right? :D

 

[Swordplay]

I should have posted this in 1 post but i didn't o well

Uhhhh. It was the Link boards that said Marth has slight advantage on Link. I though it was even originally.

Still Link has his problems so I can see why it would be Marth's advantage.

But who cares.

Marth goes even with EVERYONE IN THE GAME M I RITE?!?!?!!?

Check again. Go to the link at the begining of the form. Most link users think Link is the anti marth but I don't think so. The smart ones are saying its even. I will say even because I play marth AND link and I know how bad marth owns. There was only 1 person who gave the advantage to marth in that thread and like 10 who said adv link (prolly just hard core fans) some of the really good players are reconsidering this match as neutral in fair stages like battlefield and might give a slight edge to link if any a spam happy FD stage.



I feel like the wario vs yoshi matchup result came before we discovered his CG which changes EVERYTHING give it to yoshi

 

[DMG]

Well, honestly, there's not that much that remains to be said about this matchup... you think it's neutral, I think it's in Yoshi's favor... and nothing's getting discussed that hasn't already been said.
Let me propose a newish idea... you go to the Yoshi boards and ask them about the matchup, and I go to the Wario boards and do the same thing. Chances are we'll both get flamed but it has to happen sooner or later, right? :D

Well actually I think it should be an advantage for Wario. However, with the CG up for debate, I would have no problem if it is placed at neutral for now.

Well I already asked the Wario guys myself... You can ask the Yoshi guys and that way we both don't get flamed lol.

The only thing left to really compare would be frame data and I am having a rough time getting it for Yoshi. In all seriousness, unless Yoshi has a move that gets out quicker than frame 3 or at the latest frame 8, then Wario is gonna out speed him on the ground easy.

I feel like the wario vs yoshi matchup result came before we discovered his CG which changes EVERYTHING give it to yoshi

We are still debating whether or not this is truly an infinite. I have personally never been chained by it and other players I know of have escaped with ease. Blue sHell has even escaped from Burntsocks (Yoshi mainer) when he has tried the "infinite" multiple times so IDK if this truly works like people say it does.

 

[Kiwikomix]

We are still debating whether or not this is truly an infinite. I have personally never been chained by it and other players I know of have escaped with ease. Blue sHell has even escaped from Burntsocks (Yoshi mainer) when he has tried the "infinite" multiple times so IDK if this truly works like people say it does.

I think the concensus is that it does work but it's unbelievably hard to pull off. Think trying second-jump recovery times ten... I myself have not gotten around to trying it, since it isn't really that much of a topic on the Yoshi boards, they're more worried about this weird pseudo-wavedash Yoshi has developed.

 

[DMG]

I think the concensus is that it does work but it's unbelievably hard to pull off. Think trying second-jump recovery times ten... I myself have not gotten around to trying it, since it isn't really that much of a topic on the Yoshi boards, they're more worried about this weird pseudo-wavedash Yoshi has developed.

LOL I know exactly what you are talking about, where Yoshi is on a hill and does a DJ real close to the ground or something like that and you can slide. I can't believe people are going crazy about that, it seems pretty unimportant IMO.

What's the next matchup on the list up for debate?

 

[Browny]

well sonics are still horribly wrong... but enough of that.

i vote to debate Lucario and his chaingrab
a free 60-80% on heavyweights and fast fallers and only requires about 1/2 of FD to do it in. Is it worth enough for a tick against all those who can fall for it? he can begin the CG out of his a-a combo, and with his incredible roll dodge, its only a matter of time until it hits. i think it should be worth a lot

 

[kamekasu]

I greatly prefer Phanna's method of organization to this one.
It's much more readable and accurate. "Large Advantage" and "Small Disadvantage" are way too vague, and the graphics for each one are too similar.

 

[Blue sHell]

Its fine if you havent had trouble with it, but you're dismissing it when you have two other people saying it's a quality projectile. Theres a lack of Wario mains who frequent this thread, and even less have probably played a quality Yoshi.

So don't make the claim that Yoshi's projectile is easy to avoid if you havent gone up against it.



Are you kidding me?
Yoshi's priority is quite good in the air, probably beating out any of Wario's aerials except the Dair. Maybe even that, as Yoshi's Uair beats G&W's key.

Yoshi is quicker in horizontal aerial movement than Wario is.
he doesnt fall as fast and he's a floaty character, meaning he can stay in the air, where he's more effective, longer. On the ground, he is quicker with attacks, as far as Im concerned.



You never mentioned that to me.
If it wasnt directed at me, then I dont have much interest.

Now that it has been directed at me, here we go.

Wario's Fsmash is slow, slower than Yoshi's. All it has is SA.
Chomp doesnt matter much because Yoshi has enough range to keep away from such a close attack.
Dtilt is slow. Yoshi's is quicker.
Jab? Yoshi's has more speed.
Wario's grab is quicker, but has little range.

Yoshi is quicker here.



Learn to read.
I said that even if he doesnt have the CG, Yoshi still has an inescapable combo that is release grab -> Usmash. It's an instant death if you get grabbed and you're in killing range.

Having played Badgey and Stomps a good number of times I think I'll spit my input on the battle.

First off eggs. They're a great projectile, and they mess up alot of the aerial characters. Except Wario, lol. You have to realize how absolutely ridiculously good his airdodge is. It's super safe to do, and he still retains his mobility in the air WHILE he is doing it, so it's not like Yoshi could run up and grab/attack Wario once he sees him falling back down from an airdodge.

Upsmash outprioritizes Dair and Fair. And grabrelease to Upsmash is a free kill at higher up %s. Also, ALL of Yoshi's aerials out prioritize Wario's. This is what Yoshi has over Wario.

Escalator you're main argument seems to be that Yoshi is faster than Wario and he is too close range to do anything. If everyone went by this basis though Wario would be garbage, lol. TONS of people are faster than him, and he is the closest ranged character in the game. Yet he has the advantage vs many other characters that have tons more range+speed over him.

Wario is all about preasuring. Yoshi can't counterattack or even grab(too slow and Wario will always evade from it or followup with something faster than his grab) from shield. Saying that you will not put yourself in the position that Wario is preasuring your shield or techchasing your rolls is simply impossible too. Spotdodges will result in getting bitten or Naird. Even though Yoshi has more horizontal clearing speed doesn't mean he could chase down or even run away from Wario's mobility. Toon Links even have huge problems keeping Warios out of there face and Toons keep away game is far better than Yoshi's(no offense).

Fsmash is not slow.... I can't even comprehend how you deducted that, lol. It has almost instant startup, and very little cool down, much less startup than Yoshi's and about the same cool down as Yoshi's. Because of this, Wario's mobility, and Yoshi's inability to do much from shield, what is stopping Wario from aerialling Yoshi and landing behind him and following up with a Fsmash and being completely safe afterward, OR Nairing to chase a roll or punish a spotdodge.

And just because all of Yoshi's aerials out prioritize Wario's doesn't mean that Yoshi could safely SH aerial all day like Wario can. Yoshi's aerials last longer, and he stays in the air longer due to his floatiness. If he does he'd get punished real bad if Wario just blocks, jumps out of the way, or anything of the sort.

In the end the Wario vs Yoshi matchup is alot closer than alot of people might believe. But even Badgey, who tries to abuse the grabrelease Upsmash thing any chance he gets, agrees that Wario doesn't give Yoshi much room to breathe when he's on the ground and eggs are easier to avoid than they would be for other characters. I'd give the matchup a 6-4(favoring Wario). Hope this helps you guys out.

PS: I still can't believe that you guys have Diddy and Wario being even and Pikachu having the an advanatage over him(even I'll just deal with, but disadvantage just irks me)

 

[Browny]

fun fact

no character main will EVER admit to being disadvantaged against yoshi

dont even bother trying to prove otherwise

 

[DMG]

Having played Badgey and Stomps a good number of times I think I'll spit my input on the battle.

First off eggs. They're a great projectile, and they mess up alot of the aerial characters. Except Wario, lol. You have to realize how absolutely ridiculously good his airdodge is. It's super safe to do, and he still retains his mobility in the air WHILE he is doing it, so it's not like Yoshi could run up and grab/attack Wario once he sees him falling back down from an airdodge.

I KNEW IT!!! I knew those eggs were close to Useless in this matchup. I had trouble explaining it though, so thanks.

Upsmash outprioritizes Dair and Fair. And grabrelease to Upsmash is a free kill at higher up %s. Also, ALL of Yoshi's aerials out prioritize Wario's. This is what Yoshi has over Wario.

Even his Nair and Dair have better priority? Hmm... I guess they have more priority than I thought. Well Kiwi and Escalator, you guys were right about priority after all. +1 to both of you.

PS: I still can't believe that you guys have Diddy and Wario being even and Pikachu having the an advanatage over him(even I'll just deal with, but disadvantage just irks me)

I agree and there are a few other matchups of his that seem too neutral or undecided. Thanks again for your input here.

 

[gantrain05]

Yoshi possess all of those. Whether you actively acknowledge his projectile's use is of no consequence to us. We know how it works, and I doubt you face many good Yoshi's if you dont see this. Yoshi has great aerial priority, and has little lag with all of his things with the exception of the fair. And speed? We're talking about Yoshi here. He out ranges you AND out speeds you. I mentioned how fast his tilts and jabs are, but you sorta ignored that, I guess.

Plus the CG matters.
If it doesnt work, Yoshi now has an inescapable combo regardless. Release grab -> Usmash. If you get grabbed, you die, essentially.

no i think yoshi has **** priority, probably just right above cpt falcon in priority, and ur saying yoshis tilts are fast, and while thats true, warios are fast as well, and warios air game dominates yoshi's, and im sorry but egg toss just isnt a good projectile, maybe as a small 3rd jump but sucks as a projectile, i play an extremely good wario and u must not know how good wario can be.

 

[Browny]

wait what.

Underestimating Yoshis air game never ends well. fastest horizontal movement, most damaging dair in the game, fair spike, uair powerful KO move, nair combo breaker and bair as a near unpunishable approach. Id say yoshi has one of the best air games behind G&W and marth

 

[DMG]

wait what.

Underestimating Yoshis air game never ends well. fastest horizontal movement, most damaging dair in the game, fair spike, uair powerful KO move, nair combo breaker and bair as a near unpunishable approach. Id say yoshi has one of the best air games behind G&W and marth

His air game is pretty good but he has a hard time getting away/retreating with stuff if he misses. He also has trouble following some characters in the air because he is so floaty and the actual range on his aerials is pretty poor other than bair obviously. It's good until you compare it to other characters with good air games; then it becomes obvious that he is lacking a bit.

 

[Kiwikomix]

no i think yoshi has **** priority, probably just right above cpt falcon in priority, and ur saying yoshis tilts are fast, and while thats true, warios are fast as well, and warios air game dominates yoshi's, and im sorry but egg toss just isnt a good projectile, maybe as a small 3rd jump but sucks as a projectile, i play an extremely good wario and u must not know how good wario can be.

Priority: Yoshi has lackluster priority on his ground game, Yoshi Bomb, and Egg Roll, but great aerial priority.
Tilts: Yoshi's d-tilt is faster than Wario's, Wario's u-tilt is faster than Yoshi's, Yoshi's f-tilt is faster than Wario's.
Domination: As Blue sHell stated, Yoshi outprioritizes Wario in the air.
Egg Toss: Situational but good. It can help keep opponents at bay, it can pester recovering opponents, and it can hit people in lots of different places. It's the projectile with the biggest blast radius, except of course Pit's arrows. They also make him sort of the "anti-camper", as they cancel out most other projectiles and are much easier to hit with if the opponent is standing still.

@ Blue sHell: Good argument, it's nice to see the sides even up
The thing I would say is that Yoshi isn't really a character that relies on having "room to breathe". Being a character that usually wants to force the opponent to approach, he is the kind of character that WANTS the opponent in his face. Therefore, he doesn't really need a defensive game, although f-tilt is a perfect "go away" attack in Yoshi's playstyle, since it has great range, can be angled to hit Wario from the air, and leads reliably into a sex kick.
Also, on the subject of pressuring: One of the advantages of Yoshi's shield is that, though it can't be jumped out of, it doesn't shrink with time. This prevents strategies like shield stabbing and allows Yoshi to basically sit there and wait awhile for Wario's attacks to have some lag, then punish it. Most Yoshi users don't use their shields that often anyway, so it's sort of a moot point. Wario can pressure, yes, but Yoshis can deal with that pressure, even if that's in an uncommon way.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

Falco is not at a disadvantage vs MK. lol. That's probably one of MK's hardest matchups.

 

[kamekasu]

Falco is not at a disadvantage vs MK. lol. That's probably one of MK's hardest matchups.

Yeah.
Down-B and Neutral-B can greatly reduce the effectiveness of Tornado.
MK has trouble countering blaster spam on larger stages.
Falco can chaingrab to around 40%, and can easily kill off stage with B-air and D-air and on stage at mid-high percents with U-smash.
Falco is just too hard to kill.. D-smash out of shield is pretty effective, but Falco has enough aerial maneuverability to evade Shuttle Loop kills, and I'm pretty sure D-air has more priority than Shuttle Loop.

 

[chingy]

i disagree with the chart

 

[DMG]

i disagree with the chart

Well what parts do you not agree with? Care to discuss your opinions instead of just saying "I disagree"?