Brawl Character Match-Up chart

[omegablackmage]

lol at ddd having the advantage vs gw (or even neutral for that matter)

first off ddd's recovery gets' f'ed real hard by gw. Force him to use all of his jumps by bacon or offstage fairs and dtilts. Wait for him to up b, and b ready for the drop out to ledge grab. If he doesn't do that all gw has to do is neutral air under him to up b which sends him back out of the stage... rinse and repeat.

The only thing ddd can do vs a recovery gw is toss waddles, good luck hitting him.

 

[JJ259]

I honestly think that Kirby is at least equal if not at an advantage verses snake. Kirby seems to have a way to overcome many of snakes strong points.

He can jump over projectiles, copy grenades and cook/strip them just as snake can. Snake basically has no way of edge guarding kirby because his jumps allow him to out maneuver >B or usmash. In the air, kirby trumps snake hands down. Snakes large body/pretty fast falling makes it really easy for a Kirby to combo snake for constant large amounts of damage (not even considering the 0 - 35(possibly 50 depending on situation) combo that can be done at the start of every stock).

On the ground snake can rack up a ton of damage and can kill early but it's pretty surprising how early Kriby can kill with his fsmash and it's actually quite easy to hit through snake's upB and WoP/edge guard him.

 

[Chaudgobay]

Because only two incorrect matchups make this list bad. And you didn;t even care to explain.


Get out of here troll.

want an explanation?

ike hes worst movementation than wolf to get close of falco
ike has no spammable projectile
ike can do nothing againd falco blasters, wolf can use the shine

wolf can keep the match in a blaster game to cancel de chain grab, wolf will lose more % than falco doing this, but wolf can combo and recovery the % beteer than falco and ike

ike can just go to a close combat againt falco, so it's easy to grab and chain grab

 

[JJ259]

if marth has such a big check over MK, how come you almost never see marth winning any tournaments? its not as if every single time marth goes down its to a snake user

also i notice in a short time suddenly all of sonics disputed matchups have gone to disadvantage, with no posts whatsoever explaining this

Look again, marth is neutral to MK.

 

[bacun]

Lucas should have big checks on Zelda and Pikachu at least, if not Lucario and even Wolf. I've never had much problem with a Lucas against a Wolf, because of how obscenely easy it is to magnet-gimp Wolf's blaster game and powershield his fsmash spam. Wolf's reflect has never in my memory, except at point blank range, hit me with my own PK fire so it only serves as a negation, not a counter wheras Lucas ruins one of his best approaches/harasses, plus his air game keeps him a safe distance from retaliation. But I'm not a professional, so if other people feel strongly differently, I'd stay back. But definitely, vs. Zelda and Pikachu, magnet absolutely RUINS important facets of their gameplay. Din's Fire and Thunder (not to even mention thundershock) not only prove to be their respective characters' best assets for spacing, but also heal *30* damage if they get magneted. It's a BIG difference, and as a bonus their huge hitboxes make it VERY easy to magnet since if they're within range of his magnet on either side, Lucas'll absorb it. Lucario to a lesser extent; I've seen Lucarios play well with the very rare aura sphere, but it certainly gimps a great number of Lucario playing styles.

 

[DanGR]

Anyone else agree olimar>ness-big check?(if we're going to use this new thing) Here's why:

-everyone knows about the pikmen-pk2 gimp and the cg
-ness has low range-olimar has high
-olimar's aerials>ness'
-olimar's ground game especially>ness
-olimar's range game>ness
-olimar's approach game>ness

Need I go further?

Edit: I totally agree with lucas>zelda big check. Just about everyone should.

 

[Dark Sonic]

also i notice in a short time suddenly all of sonics disputed matchups have gone to disadvantage, with no posts whatsoever explaining this

Probably because he wants people to make arguements for him instead of just leaving it perpetually disputed.

 

[bacun]

I'm also going to throw my support in a Ness check vs. Lucas, if only because of how necessary PK fire is for lucas's game and how easily magneted it is if Ness spaces himself well against him. Projectiles aren't as important for Ness, and it gives his magnet that much more of an edge. Also, stronger grabs and a stronger air game throw the advantage in his favor IMO.

And I'd dispute lucas as an X against metaknight, if anyone's interested in rehashing that. PK fire hardcounters tornado and to an extent dash approaches; up smash hardcounters gliding and dropping approaches. Metaknight is one of the few characters against whom lucas can almost indiscriminately spam upsmash upwards of 50% and get consistent kills.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I subit that shiek Vs. Ike be moved to BIG advantage. ike just can't get a move out fast enough.

also, maybe squirtle vs. ike on the account of how esily a water gun can gimp.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

want an explanation?

ike hes worst movementation than wolf to get close of falco
ike has no spammable projectile
ike can do nothing againd falco blasters, wolf can use the shine

wolf can keep the match in a blaster game to cancel de chain grab, wolf will lose more % than falco doing this, but wolf can combo and recovery the % beteer than falco and ike

ike can just go to a close combat againt falco, so it's easy to grab and chain grab

so you assume the falco is only going to sit there and camp, and whatever stage they're on doesn't have platforms? ike is hard to grab just because of his range and his stronger attacks moving him out of shield grab range. on top of this, ike will live longer, and if falco goes for a spike aether can and will take falco with him. ike also kills much faster, regardless of his "movementation"

 

[Browny]

revert the chart back to it was a week ago imo
chaging all disputed results to either a check or a X looks as if it was done by a random number generator. i

 

[CSTIK]

revert the chart back to it was a week ago imo
chaging all disputed results to either a check or a X looks as if it was done by a random number generator. i

Well then tell us what you think! :3

 

[IvanEva]

also, ripples a little humble on the dk thread, dk's matchups are not as bad as he says

I'm really beginning to see that. I think I, and some others, have seriously underestimated DK's abilites. I'm beginning to play against some good DKs and they're showing me that he's actually quite good... I'll look over Ripple's and whoever else's match-up stuff soon enough and potentially change some of DKs for the better.

falco with big advantage vs wolf and with small advanteg with ike ??
this chart is a joke...

My apologies if I was off but I was under the impression that Falco's down throw to spike chain gave him such a large advantage against Wolf that a large advantage check was merited. Anybody else disagree?

if marth has such a big check over MK, how come you almost never see marth winning any tournaments? its not as if every single time marth goes down its to a snake user

also i notice in a short time suddenly all of sonics disputed matchups have gone to disadvantage, with no posts whatsoever explaining this

Err, it's over Ness. I'd make an even bigger check just for that one match-up but that'd be a bit much.

As for the Sonic things, that's what I've been convinced of. I'll go back and review some of the older arguments in Sonic's favor soon enough.

revert the chart back to it was a week ago imo
chaging all disputed results to either a check or a X looks as if it was done by a random number generator. i

Most of the disputed match-ups have been changed to neutral until one side is convincing enough. Neutral is usually the most accurate, if only temporarily, as far as match-up debates go.

I'm off to work right now but when I return I'll make Lucas >> Zelda, Lucas >> Pikachu, Captain Falcon < Ganondorf, and Olimar >> Ness.

 

[omegablackmage]

ok so now i'll go though and adjust gw's chart for large advantages

bowser - lacking range or any sort of approach on gw. large target and has very gimpable recovery.

cpt falcon - again lacks range to compete, speed isn't useful enough to pose any sort of threat, bad recovery

diddy kong - no range and is very light thus dies quickly. diddy doesn't have an upward killing attack to kill gw very early at all. recovery is very gimpable.

ganon - very strong character, but huge lack of speed and range make for an easy matchup.

jigglypuff - dies at around 60 percent to the downsmash, very light character. She's good for her ranged approach vs most characters, but the turtle covers too much area for it to handle.

kirby - he can edgeguard gw a little bit, but no range or vertical kill moves to compete.

lucario - no range, bucketable projectile, can't kill vertically. Easy to edgeguard, will rarely get to high percents to compete.

mario - no range, bucketable projectile, pretty easy to kill.

ness - incredibly easy edgeguard to gimp, bucketable approaches, also has no range, no vertical kill power.

peach - upsmash is too hard to land, projectiles don't cover much area at all to worry about, she can't edgeguard gw at all.

pit - very easy edgeguard to gimp, no upward killing moves that can't be di'd out of, arrows are bucketable, gw has more speed and range in almost every case.

sonic - dtilt will cancel all of sonic's approaches, upsmash isn't strong enough to worry about, has no range or kill potential.

squirtle - no range, very light, quick character but can't compete with gw's obscene range.

wario - no range to approach with, easy to edgeguard.

yoshi - obvious, character has no range, no grab speed, no kill moves that compete at all.

zelda - buckets zeldas approach (instant ko if unleashed), di'able smashes, toes are really the only competition but are quite easy to avoid, also very easy to edgeguard.

alot of these characters lose big time to gw for the same reasons: they don't have any range, don't have enough upwards killing potential, can't edgeguard him, or are easily edgeguarded by gw.


im debating the following characters for big check
fox - doesn't have any range or projectile game, but upsmash is quick and punishing
pikachu - gw can bucket alot, but a solid upsmash and the thunder isn't always avoidable/bucketable.
robot - this is probably robot's toughest matchup, but im not sure if its a big check. i can elaborate more if others agree

please, i would like some questions/debates if people think these are wrong, i'd be glad to elaborate.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Hey Omega
I'm curious and wondering if you'd go into detail with Diddy, Lucario, and Peach.
I've faced very few Diddy's, but the ones I have faced seem to give G&W a good deal of trouble. Then again, this is mostly a lack of experience.
Lucario I have faced a lot. Not recently, but he's been pretty difficult to kill off. G&W's attacks arent too unpredictable, and it's hard to kill him before he starts up getting really powerful. I think a slight check.
Peach is another I've hardly faced, but is she really that disadvantaged?

I agree with pretty much all of them.
Those three I'm just unsure about.
Mostly Lucario.

Would you say G&W has a large disadvantage against anyone at this point?

 

[omegablackmage]

no large disadvantages to anyone, not even close.
vs marth it is very close probably 45/55
vs toon link its probably 45/55 maybe 40/60

lucario - the only moves that really pose a problem to gw are the fsmash and ftilt, and lucario would have to be in position to be able to use these (no combos flow well into these moves that i've seen). Otherwise i see lucario players using fairs, bairs, and shadow balls to approach. The shadow ball can be bucketed of course and the fair and bair have little range compared to gw's fair and bair. Lucario's only consistent kill move imo is the fsmash, and those would be hard for them to land. Because of this lucario will have to wait until gw is well over 160 percent against a good player to land the kill with something more reliable (unless the lucario has high dmg). Edgeguarding is easy vs lucario, either wait on the edge and get up to a key or something or just intercept the up b. I really don't see what lucario has vs gw.

Peach - Overall i think that she's too slow to really worry about. If she had the turnips from melee i would probably leave it at a single advantage, but the turnips now don't really go far at all and are easily canceled by jabs/dtilts/turtles. Her main kill moves are fairs and fsmashes from what i've seen and those will likely get outranged/prioritized. She can't edgeguard gw well at all because he recovers so low and her vert recovery got nerfed hard. She'll have hard time landing that upsmash imo because of the key.

Diddy - i was a little unsure of this one when i first put it up, but then though about it. Bananas do suck, but are very avoidable. Gw isn't terribly slow in the air so he can make his approaches that way quite easily. Diddy is very low range as you know so he's going to have a hard time getting in on gw. Again the recovery is quite easy to destroy while diddy can't touch gw while recovering. Also, his kill moves aren't that strong so gw will probably live for a while, especially since he cant kill upwards that well.

to be honest i don't have all that much experience vs these characters, but enough to see that they don't have enough tools to put up a fight at all vs gw.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I understand what you are saying about G&W v. rucario. However, I believe the match-up isn't as poor as it seems. While you can bucket the aura sphere, once you become full your ability to rely on the bucket dwindles, which gives rucario a better chance to spam it off. Also his F-air may be lacking in range but the speed it comes out can easily mess up a G&W F-air. Also rucario dies like its his business off the top, yet G&W doesn't reliably kill vertically, which can cause a problem.

Double team may also see its uses.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=158165

I'm not saying rucario is a good match-up against G&W, but I doubt he can be played off as that bad match-up, and I feel its rather neutral between them. Slight advantage to G&W, but no more.


Also, you clearly have forgotten EVERY TIME YOU HIT ME IT JUST MAKES ME STRONGER!

---

so yeah, I think it's not a huge advantage.
That was written by my brother, and he's a pretty good Lucario.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

i am a little unsure about lucas having a big check on zelda but i can understand it as well and since i have not fought any good lucas' if there is a zelda who has i will let them agrue about it (the only reason i can see it being wrong is b/c he is light and i don't think zelda really has any almost unwinable matches hard matches yes but almost unwinable i am not sure about i have never felt overwhelmed like i was fighting a uphill battle)

But G&W does not have a big check we can stop din's spanming but he is very very light and zelda plus zelda has a nice reach and up-smash (u-smash always being a great move). Also zelda's up-air beats G&W dair. G&W has the advantage in this fight but i think a big check on a number chart would be a 8/2-10/0 and i think g&w only has a 7 on zelda

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

sorry for the double post but no one has made any comment about this post from a little while ago

Here are my thoughts on the diddy vs zelda since the fight is still a ?. so diddy's banana's are annoying but while he is taking it out he can be hit by a din's plus the banana can be refelcted back at him. one of diddy's strongest points is his air game which zelda's up-smash ruins. Also since diddy has a hard time killing zelda's wieght is not a big deal. diddy's ground game can be dangerous since its fast but zelda's d-smash is fast and her reach and hitboxes out range diddy. off the edge diddy's up-B can be gimped by din's.

I know this seems very one sided but even through i think zelda has the advantage i don't think its a huge one if diddy gets good momentum he is hard to stop and once he has you traped with his banana game you will be in trouble and he will rack up dmg. Also if zelda is in the air diddy's speed and good air game might be able to juggle zelda up there or at the very least knock her around a little and rack up dmg (yes i know zelda's nair and fair/bair will out prioritize diddy's air game but diddy's speed might still help him get some hits in). He is also pretty small and is a character who when used right seems to me like he should always be moving so he will be pretty hard to sweet spot with a fair or bair.

But overall i give this one to zelda for her ground game racks diddy's air game which is to importent for him to lose and his banana game can be stoped by her

 

[omegablackmage]

up air is a nice attack but its too slow to worry about, if you see the zelda jump up to try and counter the dair just wait a second then dair, simple as that. you can di out of the upsmash right?

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

i hear no one has found a reliable way to di out of it yet. if you are about to do a dair a up-air will beat it out if timed right was the point but i will give you timing a good up-air for zelda can be tough

Also i think g&W has the advantage just not a 8 or higher

 

[Link Lord]

Seriously, Ganondorf has an advantage, if not large one over Capt. Falcon. In fact, I would go as far as to say everyone has an advantage over Capt. Falcon, whether it be large or small. Falcon's literally become a laughingstock, making Mewtwo and Pichu look good.

Be careful what you say about Mewtwo unless you want me to get Taj in here.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Even if Taj was good with Mewtwo, it does't excuse that Mewtwo was a crappy character overall. Besides, he would never use Mewtwo in serious tourneys.


Just because one person is good with a percieved low tier character does not make said character good.

 

[Fugue]

I understand what you are saying about G&W v. rucario. However, I believe the match-up isn't as poor as it seems. While you can bucket the aura sphere, once you become full your ability to rely on the bucket dwindles, which gives rucario a better chance to spam it off. Also his F-air may be lacking in range but the speed it comes out can easily mess up a G&W F-air. Also rucario dies like its his business off the top, yet G&W doesn't reliably kill vertically, which can cause a problem.

Double team may also see its uses.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=158165

I'm not saying rucario is a good match-up against G&W, but I doubt he can be played off as that bad match-up, and I feel its rather neutral between them. Slight advantage to G&W, but no more.

If I were using Lucario against G&W, I'd charge an Aura to full and save it as a kill move/death threat instead of spamming it. Fully charged and with some damage, Aura Sphere is a pretty good killer, especially if it's fresh. From what I understand, Oil Panic is pretty much a free stock, so it'd be better to just never give him a chance to fully charge it. Not having it hurts, but Lucario doesn't need it to advance.

Can Force Palm be bucketed? I don't see why it could, but if Lucas can Magnet it for no good reason it's better not to take chances. If it's not bucketable, I think it outranges everything G&W has except for Chef- that's an approach right there.

G&W lacks vertical range, too, doesn't he? I'm pretty sure dair can get Lucario in safely.

I don't see utilt or uair actually getting through the key under any circumstances, but USmash looks like it might be able to at least trade hits- and I'd rather be Lucario in that trade.

And I'm not sure of the width of the key or the angle of the turtle, but is there a range in which Lucario can safely approach from below in air with uair? That's a pretty decent combo/kill move depending on percentages.

Lucario's recovery is pretty stage-dependant. He has issues on Smashville and Battlefield, certainly, but on Final Destination, Yoshi's Story, and the like, he's got flexibility. He can go for a wall cling/jump to recover instead of a ledge grab/ES into the floor. G&W's parachute can probably let him safely chase Lucario down to the bottom, though.


The big problems I see for Lucario are the Chef and the turtle. If he can clank or bypass the turtle, that's good, but I don't know the recovery speed or range of the new Chef very well.

Hm... a lot of "pretty sures." I don't have this matchup often.

 

[MARIOWNAGE]

The chart is really ugly and cluttered, you may want to change the icons stating how the matchup is for the character or something

 

[omegablackmage]

im pretty sure the up air will be out prioritized pretty easily by the key.

i agree with the aura sphere being saved, but that does take away from an approach lucarios are used to using.

forcepalm can be bucketed : )

im pretty sure that the turtle cannot be outprioritized by lucario


lol, a lot of pretty sures as well, i could say that i am sure if i felt like testing these things right now.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

i will admit i myself have not tested the up-air vs key but i read somewere on this site that up-air beats the key and i can understand that b/c up-air is very strong and has a nice sized disjointed hitbox.

Once again i would like to end this with G&W is a tough person for zelda to fight i just dont think he has an 8 or higher on zelda 7 seems very right to me

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

i will admit i myself have not tested the up-air vs key but i read somewere on this site that up-air beats the key and i can understand that b/c up-air is very strong and has a nice sized disjointed hitbox.

Once again i would like to end this with G&W is a tough person for zelda to fight i just dont think he has an 8 or higher on zelda 7 seems very right to me

yeah, I'm pretty sure the WORST matchup I've had for zelda is marth and even he's not what I'd call a hard counter... I don't think she has any.

Also, why is olimar marked as good against zelda... I'm pretty sure that matchup is even.

and I know most people think olimar vs. sonic is even. despite the OP's unwillingness to change it.

And I think Link is a tough matchup for metknight... maybe even

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

No no no no NO. Link in no way has anything on Meta. Meta tornado outprioritizes every non explosive projectile Link has. Because of this, Link can't space himself well at all versus Meta, and we all know how easily it is to beat a badly spaced Link. Add to the fact that Meta's attacks come out much faster than a majority of Link's moves, and he's easy to WOP/Edgeguard due to subpar recovery, Link doesn't even come close.

 

[Browny]

Z-air would like to have a word with mach tornado
--- ah **** double post didnt eve see it ---

 

[Browny]

ok so now i'll go though and adjust gw's chart for large advantages

bowser - lacking range or any sort of approach on gw. large target and has very gimpable recovery.

cpt falcon - again lacks range to compete, speed isn't useful enough to pose any sort of threat, bad recovery

diddy kong - no range and is very light thus dies quickly. diddy doesn't have an upward killing attack to kill gw very early at all. recovery is very gimpable.

ganon - very strong character, but huge lack of speed and range make for an easy matchup.

jigglypuff - dies at around 60 percent to the downsmash, very light character. She's good for her ranged approach vs most characters, but the turtle covers too much area for it to handle.

kirby - he can edgeguard gw a little bit, but no range or vertical kill moves to compete.

lucario - no range, bucketable projectile, can't kill vertically. Easy to edgeguard, will rarely get to high percents to compete.

mario - no range, bucketable projectile, pretty easy to kill.

ness - incredibly easy edgeguard to gimp, bucketable approaches, also has no range, no vertical kill power.

peach - upsmash is too hard to land, projectiles don't cover much area at all to worry about, she can't edgeguard gw at all.

pit - very easy edgeguard to gimp, no upward killing moves that can't be di'd out of, arrows are bucketable, gw has more speed and range in almost every case.

sonic - dtilt will cancel all of sonic's approaches, upsmash isn't strong enough to worry about, has no range or kill potential.

squirtle - no range, very light, quick character but can't compete with gw's obscene range.

wario - no range to approach with, easy to edgeguard.

yoshi - obvious, character has no range, no grab speed, no kill moves that compete at all.

zelda - buckets zeldas approach (instant ko if unleashed), di'able smashes, toes are really the only competition but are quite easy to avoid, also very easy to edgeguard.

alot of these characters lose big time to gw for the same reasons: they don't have any range, don't have enough upwards killing potential, can't edgeguard him, or are easily edgeguarded by gw.


im debating the following characters for big check
fox - doesn't have any range or projectile game, but upsmash is quick and punishing
pikachu - gw can bucket alot, but a solid upsmash and the thunder isn't always avoidable/bucketable.
robot - this is probably robot's toughest matchup, but im not sure if its a big check. i can elaborate more if others agree

please, i would like some questions/debates if people think these are wrong, i'd be glad to elaborate.

......

ive never seen so many ill-informed generalisations in my time on these boards.

pretty much everything youve writted is either blatantly wrong, or you have only tested it vs CPU. please actually play against humans as any of the characters mentioned, then come back.

worthy notes
Kirby: doesnt need a vertical kill move, his rock is fine, but his hammer is amazingly strong. that kills G&W earlier than he will kill kirby
Lucario: no range... um yeah, all of his attacked have huge disjointed, long lasting aura. not many characters in the game have more range. double team is a solid vertical KO move, will be killing G&W at 100% off a jab. lucarios u-air also has almost pure vertical knockback, and outprioritises pretty much everything.
Wario: EASY TO EDGEGUARD LOL WTF. ill leave it at that
Yoshi: his u-air is death. comes out lightning fast, covers his whole body and has plently of KO potential along with it

 

[Mr. Escalator]

You obviously don't know much about either Omega, the metagame, or G&W.
A lot of those are short, but they're just thrown out so people could discuss. He's keeping it brief so his post wouldnt be that big.

Firstly, Omega is a great player and a tournament go-er. He probably knows a bit of what he's talking about.

Kirby is a very easy matchup for G&W. The hammer wont be hitting him anytime soon. G&W will always be killing Kirby sooner, sorry.

Lucario has range, yeah, but thats hardly a problem. His Jab will never kill G&W at 100%, the double team is telegraphed and becomes predictable if you're using it to try and score a kill, and his Uair gets beaten by the key. Only the Usmash and Utilt beats the key, and those arent easy to hit with.

Wario is very easy to edgeguard. His recovery follows a very predictable path. G&W out ranges him, and out prioritizes him. Wario excels in the air, but G&W beats him there.

Yoshi's Uair is very hard to hit with. I recall is beating the key, but so what? G&W is very very adaptable. Yoshi has very few ways to reliable kill.

Sorry.
I kept these short, but you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[JJ259]

no large disadvantages to anyone, not even close.


lucario - the only moves that really pose a problem to gw are the fsmash and ftilt, and lucario would have to be in position to be able to use these (no combos flow well into these moves that i've seen). Otherwise i see lucario players using fairs, bairs, and shadow balls to approach. The shadow ball can be bucketed of course and the fair and bair have little range compared to gw's fair and bair. Lucario's only consistent kill move imo is the fsmash, and those would be hard for them to land. Because of this lucario will have to wait until gw is well over 160 percent against a good player to land the kill with something more reliable (unless the lucario has high dmg). Edgeguarding is easy vs lucario, either wait on the edge and get up to a key or something or just intercept the up b. I really don't see what lucario has vs gw.

You obviously have never played any good lucarios. Lucario's range is comparable to marth and his airs come out fast enough and have plenty of range to compare to gw's. Talking about kill moves, against a character as light as gw, lucario has many other kill moves, including:

fthrow
bthrow
utilt
all smashes
uair
dair
bair
aura sphere (you can only bucket 3 and then i don't see whats stopping you from getting spammed/ko'd via another sphere)
down B
>B grab

Lucario has somewhat of a disadvantage against gw but definitely not enough to justify a big check.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Even if Zair could Pierce Mach Tornado, that's only a single move in his arsenal. Link is still easily telegraphed on the great majority of moves, and to consistently beat Meta-Knight, that is simply a flaw you cannot afford to have.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^one move is all it really takes. Just as Mach tornado shuts down a lot of Link's moves, Link's zair shuts down quite a few of metaknight's moves.


Still favors metaknight though. A lot.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I've never had a problem, but maybe I'm just managing to space MK really well.... and, I'm pretty sure Link's fmash pierces mach tornado pretty well, and punishes while it;s at it. besides, ZAir and bomb are both really easy to pull out.

like I said though, I'll belive MK can winn if link can't space... I'm not sure how easy it is to space correctly for MK though, or how easy it is to space for link when both players are at a really high level.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^Metaknight spaces better because of superior movement speed as well as attack speed...Assuming the players are equally skilled of course.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

^^Metaknight spaces better because of superior movement speed as well as attack speed...Assuming the players are equally skilled of course.

I'll be inclined to believe this, though I'd think the ability for link to KO MK at such low damages chould count for something as well as link's dsmash as a "get the hell off me" move.... but then again, I'll bet MK can just destroy link once he's off the edge

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I always thought Link's range and power gave him an edge :[

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I always thought Link's range and power gave him an edge :[

Like I've said before, Link and zelda are my two BEST matchups against MK... I actually feel like I'm at an advantage with those two. Everyone else I play seems very outclassed... so at the WORST I think link is about even with MK