Brawl+ Beta Build (GSH1) Discussion

[Plum]

HypeM

lolwut


Also, since the AD situation has pretty much been taken care of, might I suggest something for G&W?

First off, his bthrow was to make up for lack of a kill setup, right? Well, instead of the killing throw cope out, why not give him actual kill setups?

I say this for two reasons. One, I'm tired of killing throws being a band aid fix for stuff, and two, a kill setup would make G&W that much more interesting.

Only problem is, I haven't thought up a suitable setup for him. Right now the best I can come up with is making the key spike better so that a sh dair can lead into a usmash. Right now, this works at a very specific percentage due to the spike's growth in power. That, and the hitbox for the spike lasts for one frame, I think. If the growth could be reduced a bit, and the spike made to last longer, that'd be great.

But that's just me. For all I know, this idea may suck altogether.

Spoiler

How about he has this insanely huge, and high priority move that sets up perfectly out of his combolicious Dthrow... A parachute if you will. Wait... This isn't Melee and Sakurai decided to kill what was so great with Melee G&W...

I personally would love to see his Up B kill. Not the very start, because that would be silly given its invincibility and usage in breaking strings, but rather the very peak.
Basically in a throwback to Melee. As soon as he pulls out the chute he produces a strong hitbox instead of the current weak one. The main use would be to finish off aerial strings when the opponent is high up in the air, chase their DI with it and smack them with the very peak of it. In most situations it wouldn't be that strong, but high in the air it would kill effectively because of how close the opponent would be to the blast zone.

I've been playing a lot of Melee lately... Bring back the killing chute in some form or another!

 

[Shadic]

I think the physics changes are mostly just making it so everybody hits the apex of their jump faster. Which is awesome, because it takes too many characters far too long to jump.

Although, how is that going to be done with characters with funky jumps, like Ness, Lucas, etc? Because their jumps actually move them.. Maybe nothing needs to be done? I dunno.

/tiredramble (I should sleep)

 

[SymphonicSage12]

The jumps that should be fixed the most are short hops, not double jumps. And even ness and lucas have fairly normal short hops. Although, speeding up the double jumps a bit wouldn't be that bad.....

 

[Alphatron]

If ugrav is raised, then their jumps will be affected fully. Like Link's UpB.

Agrees that balance changes should wait until after physics.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Hmm....sorry for being a noob, but what exactly is ugrav in terms of PSA? Is that just their SH and FH initial vertical velocity or something? O_o

btw I agree that the physics changes should come first.

 

[CT Chia]

if no air dodge in tumble is still on, please, for the love of god, take it out

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Chibo, have you paid attention to what we've been talking about for, like, 2 days? >.>

 

[shanus]

Hmm....sorry for being a noob, but what exactly is ugrav in terms of PSA? Is that just their SH and FH initial vertical velocity or something? O_o

btw I agree that the physics changes should come first.

In PSA you can only manipulate FGrav, not isolate ugrav or dgrav alone.


I've been working on new physics for some time now. And some other goodies too.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I've been working on new physics for some time now. And some other goodies too.

HYPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEe



that is all.

 

[proteininja]

I have some questions and comments after playing for like 6 hours yesterday with my roommate.

Why do jigglies throws have such insane BKB?

What is everyone's opinion on jigglies tier level?

Is everyone satisfied with the absolute terribleness of Lucario and Diddy's recoveries?

Is lucario's fsmash hitbox longer than a spot dodge?(my roommate wanted to know this one)

Does anyone think that bowser's fire is OP even with its recent nerfs?(Also my roommate whining)

Why do fools fall in love?

 

[MyLifeIsAnRPG]

I can answer one of those questions protein.

Love is a losing game
Love can be a shame
I know of a fool you see
That fool cannot tap+AD

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I have some questions and comments after playing for like 6 hours yesterday with my roommate.

Why do jigglies throws have such insane BKB?

because we made it that way.

What is everyone's opinion on jigglies tier level?
high to mid. But, why the hell are you even talking about a tier list in the first place when we're still making big changes quite frequently?
Is everyone satisfied with the absolute terribleness of Lucario and Diddy's recoveries?
their recoveries aren't terrible. Just harder to recover with. With their other excellent attributes, a wonderful recovery is unnecessary.
Is lucario's fsmash hitbox longer than a spot dodge?(my roommate wanted to know this one)
I don't think so. It might be close to it, though.
Does anyone think that bowser's fire is OP even with its recent nerfs?(Also my roommate whining)
far from it. It is very SDI'able.
Why do fools fall in love?
what the above poster said.

\


comments in red

 

[MK26]

ok...uh...im very confused

...

do we by any chance have a code/PSA/potato/what have you for MADT? if a zair character cancels the MADT, does he go into helpless? Does MADT make teching out of tumble useless?

:/

I wanna test stuff nao

 

[shanus]

ok...uh...im very confused

...

do we by any chance have a code/PSA/potato/what have you for MADT? if a zair character cancels the MADT, does he go into helpless? Does MADT make teching out of tumble useless?

:/

I wanna test stuff nao

*shifty eyes*

 

[SymphonicSage12]

methinks a very urgent update is needed like nao



EDIT: I'm ****ing joking people, calm down. See my later posts.

 

[MyLifeIsAnRPG]

I agree with Sage. We are already at page 92 of this nightly discussion. I say it's time to do some testage. We already have LOTS of stuff on our plate to test that we have talked about

1. MADT
2. MK26's Stage Select Stuff
3. Visual Cue for Tumble in Training
4. Much More Individual Character Stuff
5. Overall physics changes
6. Something about Shieldstun

either way I think we are at testing time

 

[SymphonicSage12]

hm... I guess it's time to get my effigies of Shanus out....now where are they!?!?!?


-_-


lol jk. But yes, I agree. Just talking about the changes won't do anything. We have to TEST stuff.

EDIT: patientz iz fer nubz i meen whatz up wit dat i want to get new stuffz


EDIT: oh wow, seriously people? I was just fricking kidding. OF COURSE I want the WBR to take their time. OF COURSE I want this set to be special. PUNISHING PEOPLE FOR POKING FUN IS ****ING NONSENSE

 

[shanus]

Patience young grasshopper. Coding ain't easy

 

[Alondite]

I definitely approve of faster vertical air speed (or higher air speed in general, or hell, even overall game speed), as well as Samus' bombs exploding on contact.

As for shield stun...I think there is a bit too much on powerful attacks, a bit too little on some of the medium-powered moves. I'm finding a lot of power moves that should generally be risky too safe on shield, even if not spaced well. However, with some mid-powered moves that really should be a lot safer on shield I'm finding myself being punished easily, even with good spacing. This is leading into some bad habits of over-smashing that I would rather avoid, but that's what it takes to win I'm going to do it.

Also please can we try a fastfall-cancel on more aerial projectiles, like Mario's fireballs? Everyone I play with seems to have trouble getting in with him and he's so easy to approach, I think ff-c fireballs would help.

Another thing I would like to try: being able to roll off ledges. It's so risky techrolling to a ledge because it's so easily punished, and even if you techroll away from the edge, chances are you are still going to be in a position to be punished badly. It's like a lose-lose...and that's not a good kind of positive feedback. You were already at a disadvantage being hit/combo'd, and you're still going to be at a disadvantage in a situation where you should have a chance to escape (that is, if you end up landing near a ledge). I just don't like it, and I think rolling off the ledge gives you more options, offensively and defensively.

Lastly, shorter ledge grab range. It just bugs me and makes it too easy to recover imo.

Anyway, that's what I'd like to see in addition to everything else mentioned.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I'm in love with all of alondite's ideas...

BTW I AM not pushing for a new set. Please, take your time. I really want the next update to be something special, and I realize that it takes time. Some people. however, DON'T realize the time it takes to make something so special like Brawl+. However, I will not ***** at these impatient people (unlike some *****es who ***** at the impatient *****es, know what I'm sayin?)

TL;DR: Please take your time with these changes...

 

[Bandit]

For all those calling for an updated set, you do realize the BR have lives? You might not have a life, but they are doing B+ as a side project to the rest of things they are doing (school, work, significant others, etc).

Personally, I think all those calling for another updated set should be punished and forced to wait longer. Seriously, how rude and unappreciative can you be?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Dude I was just poking fun...

and it's a snow day....

and I have no homework...no one to worry about...


yeah, I DO realize that. Which is why I'm waiting, not stalking them and threatening them to make a new set.

Calm down, seriously. Threatening and punishing people for joking around is hardly necessary. Although, punishing people for being such a literal prick is by all means necessary.

 

[Alondite]

I'm in love with all of alondite's ideas...

BTW I AM not pushing for a new set. Please, take your time. I really want the next update to be something special, and I realize that it takes time. Some people realize the time it takes to make something so special like Brawl+. However, I will not ***** at these impatient people (unlike some *****es who ***** at the impatient *****es, know what I'm sayin?)

TL;DR: Please take your time with these changes...

Haha thanks for the support. I have some other ideas too, but I'll keep them to myself for the time being since I know the B+ guys have a lot on their hands currently.

 

[Shadic]

For all those calling for an updated set, you do realize the BR have lives? You might not have a life, but they are doing B+ as a side project to the rest of things they are doing (school, work, significant others, etc).

You realized that SS12 here is actually 12 or something, and that people expect that crap out of him? I'm by no means advocating his behavior, but it's certainly not bothering people, especially from Shanus' response.

Seriously, how rude and unappreciative can you be?

HAH!
It's funny, because, you know:

I could careless what your emotional response is to my messages because I'm simply telling you the truth.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

1.) I'm 13.

2.) I apologize for my rude behavior. Would you all appreciate it if I extracted my responses from this discussion?

 

[MK26]

1.) I'm 13.

2.) I apologize for my rude behavior. Would you all appreciate it if I extracted my responses from this discussion?

1) BAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

2) naw, you're cool...its an internet forum, whats teh worst they can do to you?

 

[Alphatron]

On gaiaonline, I once used the complaint generator and made a topic about how much that site sucked with it. I got over 5 pages of flaming from people who claimed to read the whole thing stating that I was using a dictionary and such. Cape recently flipped out over a joke posted in this topic.

Maybe jokes and the internet just weren't meant to be.

Anyway...I don't see how FF fireballs would help Mario in the slightest. I bad projectile is still going to be a bad projectile and we've little reason to change it.

I'm not sure what to say about shields at the moment. High powered attacks being safe on shield is fine. Wario fsmash being safe on shield is not.

 

[MyLifeIsAnRPG]

Take your time guys ^_^ I have my own hands full with backing christmas cookies and putting up the tree.

 

[Swordplay]

MADT is this idea of free fall if you use AD in tumble?

People were complaining about how NADT hurt zairs a lot.

Well wouldn't MADT give them a significant advantage. They could AD and cancel the AD into zair while avoiding the free fall.

I really think JC's idea is the only way to go.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

no.

MADT is like, a melee style airdodge during tumble, but the brawl airdodge when not in tumble.


Although I guess that that would include freefall.....


and yes, it would give them an advantage. You already missed the discussion on that. It would actually help their recoveries (especially link.)

I love the idea, to be honest.

 

[jalued]

no.

MADT is like, a melee style airdodge during tumble, but the brawl airdodge when not in tumble.


Although I guess that that would include freefall.....


and yes, it would give them an advantage. You already missed the discussion on that. It would actually help their recoveries (especially link.)

I love the idea, to be honest.

we all seem to love it lol

 

[proteininja]

\


comments in red

Those comments are hardly adequate. I was asking about the throws because part of what made jiggly hard to play in melee is that she owned your soul offstage but you had to get them there. It was difficult. Now her forward throw at zero percent throw half the width of final D. To easy to get them offstage.

I mean you are going to give her these broken throws that setup for WOP. I don't see her weakness. She dies early but now that she has freaking ridiculous air mobility good luck comboing let alone hitting her.

There is one shining fact of awesomeness that I found out about her because no one can combo her. Bowser is a counter pick for jiggly. He can trade hits and will last longer than her. The only problem is she can WOP(wall of pain) him like no tommorow.

 

[proteininja]

Also, one more thing

Fox's U-smash

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


thats it

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Trust me. She NEEDS those throws. Without them, she is hardly mediocre. They are integral to her.


And Fox's usmash has been wtf material Since March 9th, 2008, where have you been?

 

[Swordplay]

and you don't think that characters with zair will abuse this to get out of strings?
AD>Directional way>Zair for spacing?

How would it improve recoveries? Zair really doesn't gain anything, everybody else just looses something and based on VB and BB, I'd say zair out of AD doesn't really hurt or help his recovery that much compared to regular zair.

Edit: O I see. Its not brawl AD with just free fall. Its a direcitonal thing

 

[SymphonicSage12]

direction airdodge + zair = increase range, spacing, and recovery options.


How do you not see that?

And just get over the fact that they will abuse it. Of course they will. It's not like it'll break the game or anything.

Why are so many ****ers so ****ing adamant to ****ing change? God, it's a ****ing experimental set, we're supposed to ****ing experiment!

**** you all!

 

[MyLifeIsAnRPG]

It will allow tumbling tether recovery users to air dodge toward an edge before using their tether.

Of course Z-air users will abuse it to get out of strings, but the thing is, a mashed Z-air is punishable.

Also, I'd like to note that this is our best compromise thusfar. if ADT doesn't work, NADT doesn't work, AND MADT doesn't work, what is your suggestion for fixing the whole thing Swordplay?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Not to mention that you could simply code it so that characters couldn't zair out of an ADT....


is that what you really want? it's either "broken" or none at all.

 

[Shadic]

Or, you know, we can make it so that you're automatically in freefall after you finish MADT and whatever action afterward (Zair).

 

[Alphatron]

protein, Jiggs' throws are meh unless you get thrown off at the edge of the stage. She can't combo out of them. They don't kill, and they knock way too far to do any unpredictable followups.

5.0 Jiggs was top tier tho.